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Thread: What do you think of Land Value Tax (LVT)

  1. #1981
    Quote Originally Posted by mczerone View Post
    Don't forget the SVT, WVT, and CVT (Sun, Water, Carbon, respectively).
    We allow private individuals to own land and charge others for using it. That is fact, that does happen. Slavery without using shackles.



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  3. #1982
    Quote Originally Posted by JohnLVT View Post
    We allow private individuals to own land and charge others for using it. That is fact, that does happen. Slavery without using shackles.
    So you're against hotels?

  4. #1983
    Quote Originally Posted by Steven Douglas View Post
    No, that's what you want,
    I do not. I want imposing LVT on "all" land and leave ownership alone. But subject land to monopoly commissions etc.

  5. #1984
    Quote Originally Posted by JohnLVT View Post
    I do not. I want imposing LVT on "all" land and leave ownership alone. But subject land to monopoly commissions etc.
    Let's face it. You want government control. Plain and simple.



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  7. #1985
    Quote Originally Posted by JohnLVT View Post
    We allow private individuals to own land and charge others for using it. That is fact, that does happen. Slavery without using shackles.
    Yeah, so envy that model to the point where we add those shackles, by locking everyone onto a plantation wherever they go, letting the state be the only slave-owner.

    What is it with people who think that the solution to an evil is more of the same evil, or worse yet, state control of that evil?

  8. #1986
    Quote Originally Posted by eduardo89 View Post
    So you're against hotels?
    The "guests" stay inside the capital, the building. The guests do not permanently live in the hotel.

  9. #1987
    Quote Originally Posted by eduardo89 View Post
    Let's face it. You want government control. Plain and simple.
    You are a very confused person. Read back on all my posts. Get this greedy, me, me, me, out your head.

  10. #1988
    Quote Originally Posted by JohnLVT View Post
    You are a very confused person. Read back on all my posts. Get this greedy, me, me, me, out your head.
    What's more greedy: me wanting to pay for myself and opposing the government stealing from others to pay for me, or you who wants the government to steal from people at gunpoint unless they pay for other?

  11. #1989
    Quote Originally Posted by Steven Douglas View Post
    Yeah, so envy
    Some people did envy slave owners. For sure.

    that model to the point where we add those shackles, by locking everyone onto a plantation wherever they go, letting the state be the only slave-owner.

    LVT liberates the slaves.

  12. #1990
    Quote Originally Posted by JohnLVT View Post
    LVT liberates the slaves.
    No it doesn't, it simply makes us slaves to the state in a different manner.

  13. #1991
    Quote Originally Posted by eduardo89 View Post
    No it doesn't, it simply makes us slaves to the state in a different manner.
    Yep - much worse, and in the absolute. You can avoid slavery (to an extent in today's upside down entitlement world of parasites) by owning land and avoiding holding fiat currency. With LVT all land is spoken for by the state. There is no rest for the weary, no security for anyone, not once the hungry hungry hippo parasite has a main line to the main artery of absolutely every individual from which to suckle -- as everybody "reclaims wealth they created" (as part of the cum-myun-it-tee) from everybody else.

    Oh, when will these nutbags buy a clue?
    Last edited by Steven Douglas; 03-12-2012 at 11:48 AM.

  14. #1992
    Quote Originally Posted by Steven Douglas View Post
    Yep - much worse, and in the absolute. You can avoid slavery (to an extent in today's upside down entitlement world of parasites) by owning land
    If you rent it out you are akin to a slaver. As to parasites:

    Martin Wolf Chief economist for the Financial Times:

    "throughout history, the main source of wealth was land-ownership. The parasitic landowner became wealthy on the efforts of others - peasants, tenants and even developers. Sometimes the parasite was also a farmer or developer, but that does not change the fact that these are two distinct economic roles. The parasite built fine castles and palaces and often sponsored music and culture. But he was still a parasite."
    Last edited by JohnLVT; 03-12-2012 at 01:48 PM.



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  16. #1993
    Isn't this bordering on Communism, where the government essentially own your land and take it off you if you don't cough up the cash? The Chinese have the 100 year lease; this is one step closer to that.

  17. #1994
    Quote Originally Posted by RubySold View Post
    Isn't this bordering on Communism, where the government essentially own your land and take it off you if you don't cough up the cash? The Chinese have the 100 year lease; this is one step closer to that.
    Read the thread from the beginning. All is there. The gvmt does not own your land. It does in Hong Kong where they lease the land, payable per year, dropping income tax creating a dynamic economy - created by the British. Hong Kong built a full underground metro not using income tax, only land taxes. Taiwan and Singapore use LVT. Taiwan was catapulted in one generation from a rural backwater to a world, dynamic, technological, power.

    LVT is a levy on the value on "all" land. Ownerships is irrelevant. LVT reclaims community created wealth.
    Last edited by JohnLVT; 03-13-2012 at 04:24 AM.

  18. #1995
    Quote Originally Posted by RubySold View Post
    Isn't this bordering on Communism, where the government essentially own your land and take it off you if you don't cough up the cash? The Chinese have the 100 year lease; this is one step closer to that.
    It is a very much a form of communism - a complete redistribution of wealth. The state (government at whatever level) owns all land, and charges rent for the privilege of using "its land". It's that simple.

    Geoists/Georgists/geolibs attempt describe it using different terms, in the hopes of making self-reinforcing paradigm shifting arguments (e.g., "The state doesn't own the land because land is unownable. The state only administers and controls it" or, "It's not a 'tax', it's only 'reclaiming' value that the community provided!").

    All completely irrelevant, except as ways of promoting their arguments. The net effect is absolutely no different than if the state came right out and declared that it OWNED all land in perpetuity and forever charged RENT for the privilege of using it, based on whatever formulae were adopted to administer the ad valorem ("based on value only") tax.

  19. #1996
    LOL! Steven did you see John/Roy's other thread? Not only does he want the governmental steal all your land but he also wants to ban guns!

  20. #1997
    Quote Originally Posted by eduardo89 View Post
    LOL! Steven did you see John/Roy's other thread? Not only does he want the governmental steal all your land but he also wants to ban guns!
    Steal your land? Such a vivid imagination.

  21. #1998
    Quote Originally Posted by eduardo89 View Post
    LOL! Steven did you see John/Roy's other thread? Not only does he want the governmental steal all your land but he also wants to ban guns!
    I did see that. lol

    But you know, he/they doesn't/don't see it that way. Why, that's not your land at all. That's community land. You see, if I come mow your lawn, sweep your sidewalk, and wash your windows for you, and do a really good job of it, and all that nice looking grass and such makes people interested in buying from you -- I'm not just mowing your lawn and such - I'm actually SOAKING VALUE INTO YOUR LAND. Value that I simply must reclaim. If I can't reclaim it, you're the thief, doncha know.

  22. #1999
    Quote Originally Posted by Steven Douglas View Post
    It is a very much a form of communism - a complete redistribution of wealth.
    It is pure Capitalism, with an unrigged free-market. You have been constantly told this but your conditioning gets the better of you. That is sad. Please at least try. Although LVT would work in Commie country as well as Republican USA.

    The state (government at whatever level) owns all land, and charges rent for the privilege of using "its land". It's that simple.
    LVT does no such thing. A team of economist, mainly US, went to Russia to help in the transition to the free-market. They said do not sell land, keep it community owned and leased out as dynamic Hong Kong does. They never did it - Russia would have been a world economic power by now if it did.

    LVT fairly distributes the proceeds of a society's production. Not equally. If I work harder than you I earn more than you.

    You must try harder. Please do.
    Last edited by JohnLVT; 03-13-2012 at 06:24 AM.

  23. #2000
    Quote Originally Posted by JohnLVT View Post
    It is pure Capitalism.
    Yeah - so's the Mafia. Go figure!




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  25. #2001
    Quote Originally Posted by Steven Douglas View Post
    Yeah - so's the Mafia. Go figure!
    I know what you mean. Appalling the way the USA turned out in some parts. The economic system allowed organized crime to flourish. Geoism would make it difficult for these people to operate.

  26. #2002
    Quote Originally Posted by JohnLVT View Post
    I know what you mean. Appalling the way the USA turned out in some parts. The economic system allowed organized crime to flourish. Geoism would make it difficult for these people to operate.
    Actually, it would legitimize them, making it incredibly easy for them to operate, and on the grandest scale imaginable. LVT would do for land what the Fed did for currency. Instead of Mafia, you just say "State". Oh, and just like the Mafia, they'll know which palms to grease, what needs to be "given back" to key parts of da community. No free lunch, you don't slop from the public trough without making sure that enough voting little piggies get their turn at all that "reclaimed" wealth. And most can be bought for a song.

  27. #2003
    Quote Originally Posted by Steven Douglas View Post
    Actually, it would legitimize them, making it incredibly easy for them to operate, and on the grandest scale imaginable.
    No, that's just your moronic nonsense.
    LVT would do for land what the Fed did for currency.
    No, that is physically impossible, as land's supply is fixed. You just have to spew the stupidest lies you can think of, don't you?
    Instead of Mafia, you just say "State". Oh, and just like the Mafia, they'll know which palms to grease, what needs to be "given back" to key parts of da community.
    Unlike the mafia, the state contributes value through services and infrastructure, as proved by the incomparably higher land value where there is a state than where there isn't.
    No free lunch, you don't slop from the public trough without making sure that enough voting little piggies get their turn at all that "reclaimed" wealth. And most can be bought for a song.
    More dishonesty, silliness and nonsense.

  28. #2004
    Wow, this thread is still going on, and on, and on.....

    Steven Douglas, He really is tearing you up will those intelligent "silliness and nonsense" type come back, you need to try harder, how can you possibilly answer such a harsh critical critique? //sarcasam

  29. #2005
    Quote Originally Posted by Steven Douglas View Post
    Actually, it would legitimize them, making it incredibly easy for them to operate, and on the grandest scale imaginable. LVT would do for land what the Fed did for currency. Instead of Mafia, you just say "State". Oh, and just like the Mafia, they'll know which palms to grease, what needs to be "given back" to key parts of da community. No free lunch, you don't slop from the public trough without making sure that enough voting little piggies get their turn at all that "reclaimed" wealth. And most can be bought for a song.
    This is true. Consider Roy's favorite example: Hong Kong. The regime became so corrupt it necessitate the creation of the Independent Commission Against Corruption (ICAC) in 1974. After this, this police and government made every attempt to overthrow the ICAC, and eventually did. They required British intervention to even begin to get reforms going (the head of the ICAC answered to the British Prime Minister). (1)

    Daydreams of a "successful" LVT regime (if the end goal is true justice and maximum freedom) will always be just daydreams.
    Quote Originally Posted by Torchbearer
    what works can never be discussed online. there is only one language the government understands, and until the people start speaking it by the magazine full... things will remain the same.
    Hear/buy my music here "government is the enemy of liberty"-RP Support me on Patreon here Ephesians 6:12

  30. #2006
    Quote Originally Posted by ClydeCoulter View Post
    Wow, this thread is still going on, and on, and on.....

    Steven Douglas, He really is tearing you up will those intelligent "silliness and nonsense" type come back, you need to try harder, how can you possibilly answer such a harsh critical critique? //sarcasam
    Indeed! Trolling the troll is fun!
    Quote Originally Posted by Torchbearer
    what works can never be discussed online. there is only one language the government understands, and until the people start speaking it by the magazine full... things will remain the same.
    Hear/buy my music here "government is the enemy of liberty"-RP Support me on Patreon here Ephesians 6:12

  31. #2007
    Quote Originally Posted by ClydeCoulter View Post
    Wow, this thread is still going on, and on, and on.....

    Steven Douglas, He really is tearing you up will those intelligent "silliness and nonsense" type come back, you need to try harder, how can you possibilly answer such a harsh critical critique? //sarcasam
    I think Steven is one of the forum member I would most like to have a beer with. Obviously the beer would be to cheer him up about being so decisively demolished by Roy

  32. #2008
    Quote Originally Posted by eduardo89 View Post
    I think Steven is one of the forum member I would most like to have a beer with. Obviously the beer would be to cheer him up about being so decisively demolished by Roy
    lolz...So I'll have to cry in my beer alone? I haz teh sad.
    Quote Originally Posted by Torchbearer
    what works can never be discussed online. there is only one language the government understands, and until the people start speaking it by the magazine full... things will remain the same.
    Hear/buy my music here "government is the enemy of liberty"-RP Support me on Patreon here Ephesians 6:12



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  34. #2009
    Quote Originally Posted by heavenlyboy34 View Post
    lolz...So I'll have to cry in my beer alone? I haz teh sad.
    You're just not cool enough to drink with eduardo89. You can have a beer with Roy

  35. #2010
    Quote Originally Posted by eduardo89 View Post
    You're just not cool enough to drink with eduardo89. You can have a beer with Roy
    Shoot, let's all get together and have a beer, maybe even have Roy join us...even heavenlyboy34 too

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