Actually I never said that. Peaceful people can say whatever they want. But if they are actively engaged in violence and combat against peaceful people, then you don't use the first amendment to protect them..Originally Posted by PierzStyx
"He's talkin' to his gut like it's a person!!" -me
"dumpster diving isn't professional." - angelatc
"You don't need a medical degree to spot obvious bullshit, that's actually a separate skill." -Scott Adams
"When you are divided, and angry, and controlled, you target those 'different' from you, not those responsible [controllers]" -Q
"Each of us must choose which course of action we should take: education, conventional political action, or even peaceful civil disobedience to bring about necessary changes. But let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul
"Paul said "the wave of the future" is a coalition of anti-authoritarian progressive Democrats and libertarian Republicans in Congress opposed to domestic surveillance, opposed to starting new wars and in favor of ending the so-called War on Drugs."
Yep-and another Jefferson quote- been doing a few of these lately:
Where the press is free and every man able to read, all is safe.
Thomas Jefferson
There is no spoon.
This isn't about the freedom of the press. The media is saying it is about freedom of the press. Donald Trump says he believes in the freedom of the press, and this issue has nothing to do with that - and in fact it doesn't.
"He's talkin' to his gut like it's a person!!" -me
"dumpster diving isn't professional." - angelatc
"You don't need a medical degree to spot obvious bullshit, that's actually a separate skill." -Scott Adams
"When you are divided, and angry, and controlled, you target those 'different' from you, not those responsible [controllers]" -Q
"Each of us must choose which course of action we should take: education, conventional political action, or even peaceful civil disobedience to bring about necessary changes. But let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul
"Paul said "the wave of the future" is a coalition of anti-authoritarian progressive Democrats and libertarian Republicans in Congress opposed to domestic surveillance, opposed to starting new wars and in favor of ending the so-called War on Drugs."
And it has to do with................?
Waiting................
There is no spoon.
Trump interview in question, about the 21:00 mark:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GVFebjbs4jA
Sounds like Trump was complaining about all types of media talking about how to make the bombs used. That would include CNN, Fox, etc. Then he specifies magazines that have the details. He wants to arrest people giving out instructions. "Arrest them all! ... They are inciting violence! ... Yet we don't want to touch them because of freedom of speech".
Trump is wrong. Freedom of speech is not the issue at all. He convoluted that with "inciting violence". Inciting violence, calling for the (mass) murder of people is already illegal. No changes to freedom of the press or freedom of speech are required. You can not eradicate knowledge. Even attempting it would be futile, and the loss of liberty and destruction of society in a "knowledge inquisition" is insane.
Trump's logic would dictate that gun manufacturers are responsible for all gun murders because they "made it possible".
Now a person may question the wisdom of the media for what they show, but limiting them is not even suggested. For instance, every time one of these lone gunman wackos goes on a spree, they show the body-count (score) non-stop on all of the major media outlets. These idiots and copy-cats always refer at some point to the counts of the ones before them. Perhaps the media should not emphasize the counts like it's a damn sporting event? Should there be a law? No, but they should be shamed about it.
Last edited by Brian4Liberty; 09-20-2016 at 02:46 PM.
"Foreign aid is taking money from the poor people of a rich country, and giving it to the rich people of a poor country." - Ron Paul
"Beware the Military-Industrial-Financial-Pharma-Corporate-Internet-Media-Government Complex." - B4L update of General Dwight D. Eisenhower
"Debt is the drug, Wall St. Banksters are the dealers, and politicians are the addicts." - B4L
"Totally free immigration? I've never taken that position. I believe in national sovereignty." - Ron Paul
Proponent of real science.
The views and opinions expressed here are solely my own, and do not represent this forum or any other entities or persons.
I oppose bombing people in other countries without a declaration of war. Why do you hate our constitution so much? Oh yeah, Trump supporter. It figures. Oh wait, let me guess, you aren't a trump supporter you just defend him all day long every day.
A sense of danger gives birth to fear. And fear is the time-honored cross for the crucifixion of liberty.
Like I said, I don't support Trump, I don't support taking out ISIS unless it is done through private funding. I was merely asking the OP a question to get a dialogue going. I support withdrawing from the middle east and stop giving support to ISIS. However, if I had to choose between Hillary and Trump, Trump provides a FAR better option that is a lot more Constitutional than global government Hillary. At least in rhetoric, we don't know what he is going to do - but the main point is that the media is lying about Trump again and that is what you sadly fail to recognize.
Last edited by dannno; 09-20-2016 at 02:51 PM.
"He's talkin' to his gut like it's a person!!" -me
"dumpster diving isn't professional." - angelatc
"You don't need a medical degree to spot obvious bullshit, that's actually a separate skill." -Scott Adams
"When you are divided, and angry, and controlled, you target those 'different' from you, not those responsible [controllers]" -Q
"Each of us must choose which course of action we should take: education, conventional political action, or even peaceful civil disobedience to bring about necessary changes. But let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul
"Paul said "the wave of the future" is a coalition of anti-authoritarian progressive Democrats and libertarian Republicans in Congress opposed to domestic surveillance, opposed to starting new wars and in favor of ending the so-called War on Drugs."
TOS VIOLATION
INSULTING A BOARD MEMBER.
REPORTED.
Last edited by Origanalist; 09-20-2016 at 03:13 PM.
I am the OP and that was my answer to your loaded question. The first amendment guarantees free speech and it can't just be pushed aside because you and Trump are scared of ISIS.
A sense of danger gives birth to fear. And fear is the time-honored cross for the crucifixion of liberty.
I don't think I can stand this anymore...to see members on this board, of all the $#@!ing places on the interwebz, argue that in a time of war, a war that is never going to end, press and free speech should be restricted by government...well...for $#@!'s sake.
I'm ashamed of you.
We all were better than this.
that guy looks like me.
Last edited by JK/SEA; 09-20-2016 at 03:25 PM.
Nobody here has advocated that position, I am arguing Trump did not advocate that position and the media is just making $#@! up again.
"He's talkin' to his gut like it's a person!!" -me
"dumpster diving isn't professional." - angelatc
"You don't need a medical degree to spot obvious bullshit, that's actually a separate skill." -Scott Adams
"When you are divided, and angry, and controlled, you target those 'different' from you, not those responsible [controllers]" -Q
"Each of us must choose which course of action we should take: education, conventional political action, or even peaceful civil disobedience to bring about necessary changes. But let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul
"Paul said "the wave of the future" is a coalition of anti-authoritarian progressive Democrats and libertarian Republicans in Congress opposed to domestic surveillance, opposed to starting new wars and in favor of ending the so-called War on Drugs."
Trump Quotes:
https://thinkprogress.org/trump-firs...8b6#.imzof8kufTrump, in reply, said that “freedom of the press,” a protected constitutional right, was to blame.
“They’re all talking about it so wonderfully because, you know, it’s called ‘freedom of the press,’ where you buy magazines and they tell you how to make these same bombs that I saw” Trump said. “They tell you how to make bombs. We should arrest the people that do that because they’re participating in crime. Instead they say ‘oh no you can’t do anything, that’s freedom of expression.’”
Trump made his comments around minute 21 of this clip:
But Trump nonetheless claimed he’s “totally in favor of freedom of the press,” despite indicating precisely the opposite.
“The websites are the same thing, those people should be arrested. They’re inciting violence, okay? They’re making violence possible. They should be arrested immediately…yet we don’t want to touch them because of freedom of speech,” he said.
http://www.politicususa.com/2016/09/...-bombings.html
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/...b04a1497b54f2fTrump voiced concerns in the past about free expression, including calling in December for “closing” up parts of the internet.
“Somebody will say, ‘Oh freedom of speech, freedom of speech,’” Trump said. “These are foolish people. We have a lot of foolish people.”
There is no spoon.
And Trump's just the man to edumacate them!“Somebody will say, ‘Oh freedom of speech, freedom of speech,’” Trump said. “These are foolish people. We have a lot of foolish people.”
Think of the possibilities...
...redirecting all websites on the web to Trump's Twitter account.
...replacing all TV channels with a looping, 24 hr infomercial for Trump steaks.
It'll be Great!
Right - so I don't agree with Trump that it should be illegal to produce materials which give instructions on how to make a bomb - but isn't that currently illegal in some form already? Have you found any books in stores where they give instructions on how to make bombs? What is the state of the anarchist cookbook? Would you be willing to upload it to your website so others can download it?
So already he is basically saying what the law is currently, he isn't saying the government should do anything they aren't already doing, but that's not totally related to the main issue he is discussing..
Trump refers specifically to ISIS and how they are producing materials that show people how to make bombs - but they are ALSO engaged in violence and combat - once again - violent combatants don't get first amendment protections. Bomb their servers, hack their servers, I don't give a $#@!.. I'd prefer not to have my tax dollars extracted to pay for it, but I would rather pay for that then pay to expand ISIS under Hillary and use them to start more wars.
"He's talkin' to his gut like it's a person!!" -me
"dumpster diving isn't professional." - angelatc
"You don't need a medical degree to spot obvious bullshit, that's actually a separate skill." -Scott Adams
"When you are divided, and angry, and controlled, you target those 'different' from you, not those responsible [controllers]" -Q
"Each of us must choose which course of action we should take: education, conventional political action, or even peaceful civil disobedience to bring about necessary changes. But let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul
"Paul said "the wave of the future" is a coalition of anti-authoritarian progressive Democrats and libertarian Republicans in Congress opposed to domestic surveillance, opposed to starting new wars and in favor of ending the so-called War on Drugs."
First of all, you do NOT have a right to determine who enters the country. If you think that then you have no concept of either how the US government is supposed to work or what property rights.What in hell are you talking about? What I quoted was about immigration standards. We have every right to determine who enters our country and is offered citizenship. To offer this to people who want to live under a different form of government than we have here is downright stupid. I fail to see how that has one thing to do with killing anyone.
See, the US government has no rights. It is not a person. It ha s"delegated powers," things it can do because the people who have the rights to do those things have authorized it to act in their name. The government then cannot do anything that you cannot do.
Property rights say that you can prevent anyone from crossing onto land you own directly. You can absolutely regulate your own land. But you neither have the right to tell me who I can or cannot have on my land nor can you determine who can or cannot go onto land no one owns. Once you do either of those things you are violating my property rights and the rights of others to move across unowned land.
Since you do not either own all the land bordering the national boundaries you cannot authorize the government to or all the land in the country you have no rights whatsoever to limit someone else in their ability to travel across the national lines, to emigrate or immigrate. Just because you make up a giant gang that runs a protectionist scam on the public doesn't mean you have any more rights than the individual does. It just makes you a tyrant.
Secondly, are you naive when it comes to immigration? What do you think happens when the US thugs burst into your home, seize your property, steal you from your home, shatter your family, and throw you in a rape cage? What do you think happens when people are caught crossing the border? What do you think laws are? Laws are force and threats of death. You are saying that you think it is okay to kill someone who refuses to go back across an imaginary line you made up to create a huge "safe space" for your "ideals." You want to declare that you are for immigration laws? Fine. But don't be a coward. Actually face up to what it is exactly that you are doing. You are okay with killing people for a victimless crime, because they hurt no one by crossing a non-existent line on a map somewhere. That isn't justice, it is tyranny. All men are created equal with the exact same unalienable rights. Not just Americans.
It is, in essence, what ISIS does. You are threatening to torture and murder someone because they think differently about government than you do. It is sick and hypocritical.
Last edited by PierzStyx; 09-20-2016 at 04:23 PM.
Says the man calling for violence against peaceful people by electing an authoritarian.
By the way, that is exactly what you said. you believe some speech should be limited and some approved. That isn't free speech. It is regulated speech.
I didn't say it made sense.
...
Sounds like it to me.“The websites are the same thing, those people should be arrested. They’re inciting violence, okay? They’re making violence possible. They should be arrested immediately…yet we don’t want to touch them because of freedom of speech,” he said
Uh, no, none of what you just said is right at all.
Where did I defend Trump for wanting to attack peaceful people? You think ISIS is peaceful people? And all I am saying is Trump is better than Hillary. I think it's pretty clear that he is better than Hillary on a wide array of issues.
And for the last time - violent combatants don't get first amendment protections!! Period. Let's pretend we were a better, more peaceful country and we got attacked by Japan and they had a state run newspaper that was circulating anti-US propaganda and perpetuating violence against us.. are you really saying we should avoid bombing their newspaper facility because freedom of speech???? Really?
"He's talkin' to his gut like it's a person!!" -me
"dumpster diving isn't professional." - angelatc
"You don't need a medical degree to spot obvious bullshit, that's actually a separate skill." -Scott Adams
"When you are divided, and angry, and controlled, you target those 'different' from you, not those responsible [controllers]" -Q
"Each of us must choose which course of action we should take: education, conventional political action, or even peaceful civil disobedience to bring about necessary changes. But let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul
"Paul said "the wave of the future" is a coalition of anti-authoritarian progressive Democrats and libertarian Republicans in Congress opposed to domestic surveillance, opposed to starting new wars and in favor of ending the so-called War on Drugs."
Do you know where the "fire in a crowded theater" argument comes from? It was when Oliver Wendell Holmes handed done the SCOTUS decision that said peacefully distributing pamphlets opposed to the draft during WWI was a violation of the Espionage Act. It was his justification for crushing the First Amendment and legalizing government censorship. It was his analogy that supposedly justified the making of any expression of dissent in war time illegal. Is that really what you want?
Our bombs can't tell the difference- any candidate that supports destroying ISIS is basically just writing a blank check for our government to bomb anywhere and everywhere. Its $#@! like this that has Russia rebooting the KJB U.S. Admits Airstrike in Syria, Meant to Hit ISIS, Killed Syrian Troops
Pretend we were a good country, and we were in an actual legitimate war, defending ourselves, and the enemy had a state run newspaper that was helping the war effort by drafting citizens and telling them how to kill US soldiers, you think we should not take out the newspaper because freedom of speech?
I'm not defending Trump on the issue as a whole, I know he is a bit authoritarian on some of these issues and would be against free speech in some forms that I oppose him on - I just think in this instance I don't really see protecting the speech of ISIS who is going around attacking innocent people, like we need to protect their rights or something..
"He's talkin' to his gut like it's a person!!" -me
"dumpster diving isn't professional." - angelatc
"You don't need a medical degree to spot obvious bullshit, that's actually a separate skill." -Scott Adams
"When you are divided, and angry, and controlled, you target those 'different' from you, not those responsible [controllers]" -Q
"Each of us must choose which course of action we should take: education, conventional political action, or even peaceful civil disobedience to bring about necessary changes. But let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul
"Paul said "the wave of the future" is a coalition of anti-authoritarian progressive Democrats and libertarian Republicans in Congress opposed to domestic surveillance, opposed to starting new wars and in favor of ending the so-called War on Drugs."
Excellent quote. Jefferson had another famous one I think applies well here:
Also:
Totally agreed, and like I said, I prefer the Ron Paul solution over all else by a long shot - but I also prefer the stop funding ISIS, stop trying to replace foreign leaders and meddling in the middle east and just take out ISIS of Donald Trump to Hillary's continuation of the funding of ISIS and the continuation of replacing foreign leaders and meddling in the Middle East. It's pretty simple. I don't know why you wouldn't agree with that as well.
"He's talkin' to his gut like it's a person!!" -me
"dumpster diving isn't professional." - angelatc
"You don't need a medical degree to spot obvious bullshit, that's actually a separate skill." -Scott Adams
"When you are divided, and angry, and controlled, you target those 'different' from you, not those responsible [controllers]" -Q
"Each of us must choose which course of action we should take: education, conventional political action, or even peaceful civil disobedience to bring about necessary changes. But let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul
"Paul said "the wave of the future" is a coalition of anti-authoritarian progressive Democrats and libertarian Republicans in Congress opposed to domestic surveillance, opposed to starting new wars and in favor of ending the so-called War on Drugs."
Please can we just have everyone forget what we know?
You can't take the oil and leave the middle east/Russia alone at the same time you believe in this fantasy you created. Please forget what you know.
Who does their propaganda threaten exactly? If it is in Japan then it is no more or less a danger and bombing it will accomplish nothing to bring peace. If it is here then people absolutely have a right to side with Japan in a conflict. That is what freedom of speech means- the freedom to say controversial, unpopular, crazy stuff. Question is, if we are at war do you think an American newspaper that supports our "enemy" is going to stay open for very long? Because I doubt it. People won't buy it.
Posting Permissions
Reply With Quote
Connect With Us