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Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.
Robert Heinlein
Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler
Groucho Marx
I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.
Linus, from the Peanuts comic
You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith
Alexis de Torqueville
Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it
A Zero Hedge comment
Some key demographic in Trump base seem to be turning on him and harshly:
http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...=1#post6579279
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Delta variant, death of 9 Chinese engineers in terror attack led to airport chaos & quick Kabul fall?
While I can certainly understand a theory that the additional workers are needed , I kind of doubt it going forward . During the last downturn unemployment was actually worse than the Great Depression . The five workers for every job needed then was exceeded and there were 6 workers for every job available . We are due for a stock correction that could lead to a repeat . Without the correction , the additional workers may also not be continued to be needed because the model has changed from Mnfg to service. We are now a nation that just imports cheap $#@! from other countries. Only so many fast food jobs are available and they can be filled by the people already here .
...
Pfizer Macht Frei!
Openly Straight Man, Danke, Awarded Top Rated Influencer. Community Standards Enforcer.
Quiz: Test Your "Income" Tax IQ!
Short Income Tax Video
The Income Tax Is An Excise, And Excise Taxes Are Privilege Taxes
The Federalist Papers, No. 15:
Except as to the rule of appointment, the United States have an indefinite discretion to make requisitions for men and money; but they have no authority to raise either by regulations extending to the individual citizens of America.
You're trading the chance of reduced immigration on the hopes that it will stem the tide of socialism by actually increasing the size and scope of the security state, with the possibility that said powers will metastasize into other areas beyond immigration.
Further, who will bring about the laws to be enacted in the name of immigration restrictions? The very people who have carried us into the situation we now have. With the bureaucratic class receiving a healthy dose of authority, money, and manpower, do you think that will bring about enhanced freedom, or more of the $#@!ery they are wont to create?
The arguments for bolstering the State for the sake of limiting immigration are strikingly similar to those used in support of the PATRIOT Act and War on Terror after 9/11. How successfully has that battle been fought? Has the government lived up to its promises and self-imposed restrictions?
The epitome of libertarian populismOriginally Posted by Ron Paul
No chain migration. No birthright citizenship for any children of foreign nationals. No welfare or entitlements for legal immigrants. Deport all foreign nationals in holding cells. Deport all foreign nationals in prisons for non-violent crimes. Institute the Death Penalty for any foreign national who commits a capital crime. Ban duel citizens from holding public office. Pass strict Voter ID Laws in all 50 States. Pass Paper Ballot Laws in all 50 States. End the Empire. Put our troops on the borders.
Constitutional and effective sans the police state.
Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.
Robert Heinlein
Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler
Groucho Marx
I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.
Linus, from the Peanuts comic
You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith
Alexis de Torqueville
Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it
A Zero Hedge comment
Partisan politics, misleading or emotional bill titles, and 4D chess theories are manifestations of the same lie—that the text of the Constitution, the text of legislation, and plain facts do not matter; what matters is what you want to believe. From this comes hypocrisy. And where hypocrisy thrives, virtue recedes. Without virtue, liberty dies. - Justin Amash, March 2018
"It’s dangerous to use the existence of one abuse of government power to justify another abuse of government power. Never give government additional power as a means of reducing its power. To do so is to travel along the road to serfdom—and, in the case of immigration restrictions, to cede to the state the frightful power to select those with whom we may associate. No free people ought ever do such a thing."
https://fee.org/articles/freedom-of-association/
Partisan politics, misleading or emotional bill titles, and 4D chess theories are manifestations of the same lie—that the text of the Constitution, the text of legislation, and plain facts do not matter; what matters is what you want to believe. From this comes hypocrisy. And where hypocrisy thrives, virtue recedes. Without virtue, liberty dies. - Justin Amash, March 2018
Valid concerns, I understand.
I'm not sure I have any good answers, or if there are good solutions.
All I know is that you cannot let millions and millions and millions of people that are hostile to the idea of limited government, individual freedom and property rights into the country and into the voting system, and expect positive results.
If these same people are hostile to the native population as well, and who and what they are, as people, then you have a recipe for disaster.
As I've said a hundred times already, ask these guys how that worked out for them:
“Civilizations die from suicide, not by murder.” - Arnold Toynbee
Pfizer Macht Frei!
Openly Straight Man, Danke, Awarded Top Rated Influencer. Community Standards Enforcer.
Quiz: Test Your "Income" Tax IQ!
Short Income Tax Video
The Income Tax Is An Excise, And Excise Taxes Are Privilege Taxes
The Federalist Papers, No. 15:
Except as to the rule of appointment, the United States have an indefinite discretion to make requisitions for men and money; but they have no authority to raise either by regulations extending to the individual citizens of America.
Then why do my neighbors use fences? Why does my sister live in a gated community? Ever been to a Federal Reserve Building? The White House? Obama’s new DC Fortress?
Your argument is laughable on its face.
Again, read my post from above. It’s easy to restrict immigration and still support the Bill of Rights and the Natrual Law. No Police State required.
Last edited by Gumba of Liberty; 01-26-2018 at 08:58 AM.
What a strawman argument. First, there is nothing morally wrong with fencing in your homestead. Second, I stated that fences work, and they do. If they didn’t then property owners wouldn’t buy them. Third, my neighbors overwhelming voted, that alone proves there dumbassery.
None of those examples are at all analogous to a closed-border nation. That gated community that your sister lives in lets people in, right? They didn't just build it and then refuse to sell any of the homes in it? To make it correct, that gated community would have to refuse to permit its homeowners to sell or rent their homes to anyone other than other homeowners. It would demolish the 'economy' of the community.
Let's make that analogy more accurate. One day your sister realizes that the HOA of her gated community is mostly full of $#@!s who are making decisions that she doesn't like. To solve that, she decides to 1) pen herself in with the $#@!s, 2) give the $#@!s in the HOA a bunch more authority, and 3) give the $#@!s the power to decide which other $#@!s are allowed to join.
Will this strategy will prevent there from being more $#@!s?
I'm not emotionally attached to birthright citizenship, but I oppose creating an underclass of permanent residents and their native-born children non-citizen children.
Ironically, the type of society that this policy emulates is a very Islamic, Middle Eastern society... precisely the type that is (supposedly) opposed by those who advocate it.
I consider you one of the best, and most logical, forum members on RPF- but I do not agree on using Big Gov as a solution for a problem created by Big Gov, which got us where we are today.
Immigrants are NOT the problem- gov in every aspect of our lives is the problem. Freedom lovers should be working together to get gov out of education, medicine, business, and entitlements and a million other parts of everyday life.
There is no spoon.
If believing in a minarchist state that defends the borders from invasion so we have the possibility of living in a libertarian like state is now considered by you as "authoritarian big government" then so be it.
I believe these damned far left college professors and philosophers have pushed this open border crap on people like you full well knowing that it makes the said philosophy an impossibility. It divides the realists from the purists, leaving the libertarians unable to organize and further advances united supporters of big government.
He has the clarity to at least acknowledge that there's a security/liberty choice going on here. Patriot Act and TARP thinking will not get us closer to Kahless' "libertarian like" society. Well, for myself and my children, I don't want a libertarian like society of white Europeans. I want actual liberty.
Realism is recognizing that more government has always resulted in less liberty. Purism is starting with a hypothesis such as "we have too much immigration" and doing whatever it takes to bend reality to fit.
Build the biggest wall you want around your property. Encase it in an impermeable buckyball sphere for all I care. Anti-immigrationists are asking me to pay for the government to build a wall around my property that I don't want. Well they need to GET OFF MY LAWN AND OUT OF MY BUSINESS.
Partisan politics, misleading or emotional bill titles, and 4D chess theories are manifestations of the same lie—that the text of the Constitution, the text of legislation, and plain facts do not matter; what matters is what you want to believe. From this comes hypocrisy. And where hypocrisy thrives, virtue recedes. Without virtue, liberty dies. - Justin Amash, March 2018
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