Tariff Wars- Round Three: Now Trump wants another $100 billion

[r3volution 3.0]

Trigger a hostile sell off of T-bills

That might be the big under-reported story in all this.

With or without the Chinese actively shifting out of US debt, this will have to put upward pressure on rates.

[brushfire]

Nothing is certain, but that was also true for stretches of time in China's past between collapses, what would be different now compared to Maoist China is that the elite and the people have tasted the potential for a massive increase in their standard of living which is about to be rudely dashed from their lips and the suffering will be uneven.

That's a fair point - entirely true. As much as we see overall material wealth in China, they've still been very successful in instilling a fearful respect within their population. At some point though, at the rate things are going, the T-bill will not be worth holding anyway. Regardless of whether trump instigates a selloff, our downward spiral of debt will. I wonder if China still invests in Enron.

[Swordsmyth]

That's a fair point - entirely true. As much as we see overall material wealth in China, they've still been very successful in instilling a fearful respect within their population. At some point though, at the rate things are going, the T-bill will not be worth holding anyway. Regardless of whether trump instigates a selloff, our downward spiral of debt will. I wonder if China still invests in Enron.

China has indulged in massive amounts of malinvestment, the only thing that is certain is that this won't end well for them.

[Zippyjuan]

Theres is a sense of stability with that though. More savings/reserves would mean naturally lower interest rates too. Its not a perfect system, but one that naturally seeks equilibrium. The one we have now is completely subject to the whims of government, and its special interests.

The key is to have steady and sustainable growth - not this bubble madness every 10 years that we're seeing today. ...and when sh!t goes down, people have to rely on the government because there's no savings. Kinda like Fannie and Freddie - at least the government is consistent.

There have always been bubbles. They are unavoidable.

[Swordsmyth]

There have always been bubbles. They are unavoidable.

But they were smaller and were easier to deal with.

[Zippyjuan]

But they were smaller and were easier to deal with.

Kinda like that Great Depression thing.

[brushfire]

Kinda like that Great Depression thing.

"Tariffic" example Zippy Glad we had the fed to take action, and all the government handouts, or we'd not be alive today.

Good thing too that we'll never, ever see another event like that again. Thanks to our current economic system and its table of benevolent banker/dictators.

<wink, wink, nudge, nudge>

[Swordsmyth]

Kinda like that Great Depression thing.

You mean the one that came after the fed overheated the market in the roaring twenties, and then did everything it could to prolong it?

[Zippyjuan]

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/re...uts-2018-04-05

Republican senator on Trump’s latest tariff threat: ‘This is nuts’

Ben Sasse calls tariffs ‘the dumbest possible way’ to solve China trade imbalance

One Republican senator was quick to rip President Donald Trump over his plan announced late Thursday to seek an additional $100 billion in tariffs against Chinese goods.

“Hopefully the President is just blowing off steam again but, if he’s even half-serious, this is nuts.”

“China is guilty of many things, but the President has no actual plan to win right now,” Sen. Ben Sasse, R-Neb., said in a statement.

“He’s threatening to light American agriculture on fire. Let’s absolutely take on Chinese bad behavior, but with a plan that punishes them instead of us. This is the dumbest possible way to do this,” he said.

Sasse’s home state of Nebraska could be particularly hard-hit by retaliatory Chinese tariffs against U.S. agricultural exports.

Earlier Thursday, Trump inflamed fears of a trade war with an announcement that he was seeking $100 billion in tariffs on top of the $50 billion already proposed for certain goods from China. Futures markets immediately slumped on fears that the move will make the already jittery stock market even more volatile.

Sasse wasn’t the only one to speak out Thursday against the new tariffs.

Dean Garfield, chief executive of the tech-industry lobbying group Information Technology Industry Council, called the new proposal “irresponsible and destabilizing.”

“We need the U.S and China to come to the table and identify solutions to these serious problems. We call on both sides to halt unproductive and escalatory rhetoric, recognizing that these words and actions have global consequences,” he said in a statement.

Richard Haass, president of the nonpartisan Council on Foreign Relations think tank, said in a series of tweets that Trump’s stance is “incoherent” and will “tank markets.”

“All new US tariffs will do is trigger new Chinese tariffs,” he said.

[spudea]

Republican senator on Trump’s latest tariff threat: ‘This is nuts’

Dear all GOP losers:

[Swordsmyth]

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/re...uts-2018-04-05

The only way we might get China to negotiate in good faith is if we finally push back, DJTvsg knows what he is doing.

[Zippyjuan]

Dear all GOP losers:

http://www.ronpaulinstitute.org/arch...ot-the-answer/

Tariffs Are Not the Answer

written by ron paul

President Trump’s planned 25 percent tariff on steel imports and 10 percent tariff on aluminum imports may provide a temporary boost for those industries, but the tariffs will do tremendous long-term damage to the American and global economies. Tariffs raise the price of, and reduce demand for, imported goods. Tariffs ensure the preferences of politicians, instead of the preferences of consumers, to determine how resources are allocated. This reduces economic efficiency and living standards.

President Trump’s claim that trade wars can be easily won is as credible as the neoconservative claim that the Iraq War would be a cakewalk. A trade war would likely push the global economy into a recession or worse. Instead of imposing costs on American businesses and consumers and putting those whose livelihoods depend on imports out of s job,

[Swordsmyth]

http://www.ronpaulinstitute.org/arch...ot-the-answer/

Ron is wrong here, he would be right if China hadn't started a trade war and we had free trade with them but that isn't the case.

[spudea]

http://www.ronpaulinstitute.org/arch...ot-the-answer/

Yes including RP. RP doesn't know how to win. Evidence the elections in 1988, 2008, 2012, 2016

[Zippyjuan]

Yes including RP. RP doesn't know how to win. Evidence the elections in 1988, 2008, 2012, 2016

There aren't winners in trade wars- only losers.

[Swordsmyth]

There aren't winners in trade wars- only losers.

It's too bad China started one, now the only way to limit the damage is to fight back.

[Zippyjuan]

It's too bad China started one, now the only way to limit the damage is to fight back.

You are really pushing the idea of a trade war.

https://www.rt.com/business/420476-u...-china-damage/

Trump’s tariff bombshell could ignite full-blown trade war & Russia could be the winner


<>

Kateb explained that Trump’s policy “goes against the national interest of the United States and this is the most striking feature. We have an American president who is capable of sacrificing the national interests of his country in favor of some domestic political gains. This is completely insane.”

https://sputniknews.com/analysis/201...isit-analysis/

Sanctions, China-US Trade War Driving Moscow, Beijing Closer Together

[spudea]

There aren't winners in trade wars- only losers.

Tell that to China, we have to teach them as well

[Swordsmyth]

You are really pushing the idea of a trade war.

China started it many years ago.

https://www.rt.com/business/420476-us-tariffs-china-damage/

LOL

[Ender]

Trade Wars

https://goldswitzerland.com/trade-wa...ld-500-silver/

[/QUOTE]

US WAR DRUMS
Whenever a nation starts fighting with other countries, it is always done from a position of weakness. US debt has been running out of hand for a long time. Federal, state, corporate, personal, mortgage, auto, student etc, etc, they are all escalating exponentially. On top of that the US budget deficit will be in the trillions for the foreseeable future and the trade deficit was $600 billion in 2017 and could soon be one more trillion dollar deficit.

Starting wars is an Indication of the final stages of a troubled empire. The wars and interference in countries like Iran, Libya, Ukraine, Syria and Yemen are all part of that. The appointment of hardliner John Bolton as National Security Advisor as another perilous sign that the US is on the war path again.

So is policing the world’s financial system and so is protectionism and trade wars. These are all desperate measures of a country in a terminal decline. And it is certainly not a coincidence that this trade war started right before the oil trading in Yuan begun. Eventually this will lead to the demise of the dollar and a major power shift from West to East as well as much higher gold prices.

Nor is it a surprise that Silk Road countries have been buying major amounts of gold in this century. As the graph shows, the gold holdings of Russia, Turkey, India and China have increased 7 fold since 2004 from 5,000 tonnes to 35,600 tonnes. The question is how much is actually left in Western Central Banks of the 23,000 tonnes that they allegedly hold.


THE US BLAMES EVERYONE ELSE
The whole world is living above its means but the US is the worst culprit. So what is the US doing about it. Well there is no question of adjusting your spending in line with your expenses. That would be much too simplistic. Instead you blame the whole world that it is their fault and that they must be punished. And this is exactly what Trump is doing now. It is China’s and everybody else’s fault that a major part of US manufacturing has moved to low cost countries. And it is these countries’ fault that the US is living above its means and borrowing and spending more that it earns. Therefore these nasty countries must be punished. And that is the reason the US has started a trade war. Trade wars are almost without exception a desperate measure taken by an ailing economy. A trade war, especially between the two biggest nations in the world will indisputably lead to a downturn in world trade and therefore also a major global economic downturn.

TRUMP’S TRADE WAR AND NIXON’S DOLLAR WAR
The desperate measures the US is currently taking reminds me of Richard Nixon in August 1971 when he blamed the whole world for the dollar being attacked. President de Gaulle of France was clever enough to see what was happening and asked for payment of the US debt to France in gold. Since the dollar was backed by gold, sovereign states could demand payment in gold at that time. With the US currency under pressure, Nixon abandoned the gold backing of the dollar on August 15, 1971. That was the beginning of the end for the US economy and also the world economy. A credit expansion and money printing bonanza started that has continued until this day. This has made a very tiny minority very rich and lumbered the rest of the world with a debt that they neither will nor can repay.

But here is the important point. Trump’s desperate measure to save America will be seen as the nail in the coffin for the US and the world economy. And here we can draw a parallel to 1971. The US was in a similar situation then as it is now. Deficits were increasing and the dollar was falling. So what were the consequences of Nixon’s fatal decision. The dollar collapsed. I was in Switzerland at the time and saw the dollar fall 63% against the Swiss franc between Aug 1971 and January 1980. During that same period gold and silver surged. Gold went from $35 an ounce to $850 or up 24x. Silver went from £1.60 to $50, up 31 times.

[Danke]

Trade Wars

https://goldswitzerland.com/trade-wa...ld-500-silver/

[/QUOTE]


Post this over here:

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...es-Hope/page12

[oyarde]

US is 18% of China's exports. Not enough to shut down entire regions (which are more economically diverse than some seem to realize). Then US producers (and consumers) face massive shortages of goods and parts to make goods and hundreds of thousands are laid off. Prices soar. Yeah- winning!

It will have no effect on me .

[Danke]

It will have no effect on me .

Aren't you getting a little too old to keep picking up stealing from others?

[Swordsmyth]

Trade Wars

https://goldswitzerland.com/trade-wa...ld-500-silver/

Yeah we know: "AMERICA IS EVIL AND EVERYBODY ELSE ARE INNOCENT VICTIMS, ESPECIALLY COMMUNISTS".

[Swordsmyth]

Aren't you getting a little too old to keep picking up stealing from others?

He doesn't grow old.

[oyarde]

If chinamen were stupid you could maybe get them to just hurt themselves with stuff like daylight saving time , decaf coffee , emissions controls etc .

[Danke]

Yeah we know: "AMERICA IS EVIL AND EVERYBODY ELSE ARE INNOCENT VICTIMS ESPECIALLY COMMUNISTS".

I didn't get that from the article. If anything, you could dismiss it as a "goldbug" article trying to promote their business.

[oyarde]

Aren't you getting a little too old to keep picking up stealing from others?

I am the best example of free trade .

[Danke]

If chinamen were stupid you could maybe get them to just hurt themselves with stuff like daylight saving time , decaf coffee , emissions controls etc .

Your ancestors are implementing emission controls, going all electric vehicles soon.

[oyarde]

I didn't get that from the article. If anything, you could dismiss it as a "goldbug" article trying to promote their business.

I am holding out for 54K gold .