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(a) The militia of the United States consists of all able-bodied males at least 17 years of age and, except as provided in section 313 of title 32, under 45 years of age who are, or who have made a declaration of intention to become, citizens of the United States and of female citizens of the United States who are members of the National Guard. (b) The classes of the militia are— (1) the organized militia, which consists of the National Guard and the Naval Militia; and (2) the unorganized militia, which consists of the members of the militia who are not members of the National Guard or the Naval Militia.”There's the necessary law. Since gun sellers are acting, as Pete has pointed out, as licensed agents of the Federal government, then I believe a lawsuit could be brought on these merits.A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed
'We endorse the idea of voluntarism; self-responsibility: Family, friends, and churches to solve problems, rather than saying that some monolithic government is going to make you take care of yourself and be a better person. It's a preposterous notion: It never worked, it never will. The government can't make you a better person; it can't make you follow good habits.' - Ron Paul 1988
Awareness is the Root of Liberation Revolution is Action upon Revelation
'Resistance and Disobedience in Economic Activity is the Most Moral Human Action Possible' - SEK3
Flectere si nequeo superos, Acheronta movebo.
...the familiar ritual of institutional self-absolution...
...for protecting them, by mock trial, from punishment...
We have long had death and taxes as the two standards of inevitability. But there are those who believe that death is the preferable of the two. "At least," as one man said, "there's one advantage about death; it doesn't get worse every time Congress meets."
Erwin N. Griswold
Taxes: Of life's two certainties, the only one for which you can get an automatic extension.
Anonymous
Liberty is lost through complacency and a subservient mindset. When we accept or even welcome automobile checkpoints, random searches, mandatory identification cards, and paramilitary police in our streets, we have lost a vital part of our American heritage. America was born of protest, revolution, and mistrust of government. Subservient societies neither maintain nor deserve freedom for long.
Ron Paul 2004
Registered Ron Paul supporter # 2202
It's all about Freedom
Liberty is lost through complacency and a subservient mindset. When we accept or even welcome automobile checkpoints, random searches, mandatory identification cards, and paramilitary police in our streets, we have lost a vital part of our American heritage. America was born of protest, revolution, and mistrust of government. Subservient societies neither maintain nor deserve freedom for long.
Ron Paul 2004
Registered Ron Paul supporter # 2202
It's all about Freedom
https://reason.com/volokh/2018/02/28...ell-rifles-and
Can Gun Stores Refuse to Sell Rifles and Shotguns to Under-21-Year-Olds?
A student asked me over lunch: Some stores have announced that they won't sell rifles and shotguns to under-21-year-olds. Is that legal, given that federal law only limits sales of handguns to under-21-year-olds, and doesn't ban sales of long guns to 18-to-20-year-olds?
[1.] Stores' own age limits don't violate the Second Amendment, because the Second Amendment limits only the government, not private companies. Likewise for the Equal Protection Clause (plus the Equal Protection Clause generally doesn't forbid even governmental age classifications).
[2.] The federal Civil Rights Act doesn't cover retail stores, and doesn't cover age, so it doesn't bar such policies, either.
[3.] But about a third of all states ban discrimination based on age in places of public accommodation, and some of those statutes may well ban refusal to sell guns to 18-to-20-year-olds. These laws vary from state to state, so I can't speak to all of them; but the one I checked -- Connecticut (the alphabetically first on the list) -- does indeed seem to ban discrimination against 18-to-20-year-olds in retail sales, with no exception for guns.
[4.] Likewise, some cities and counties have similar ordinances (even if their states don't); two I found, for instance, are Madison, Wisconsin and Broward County, Florida. (I looked them up just because I remembered from other research that they have broad antidiscrimination ordinances.) Seattle, on the other hand, bans age discrimination, but apparently only against people 21 and above, again without regard to whether the store sells guns or anything else.
[5.] Of course, the state and local laws will only affect the stores' policies in those jurisdictions; a store could have a general nationwide policy of not selling some products to under-21-year-olds, but a different policy in those states that require equal treatment of 18-to-20-year-olds.
Last edited by Zippyjuan; 03-03-2018 at 12:43 PM.
Judge Napster: https://www.foxbusiness.com/features...il-rights-laws
Dick’s Sporting Goods violating civil rights laws?
Judge Andrew Napolitano said Dick’s Sporting Goods may be within its legal rights to sell firearms to whomever it chooses to — regardless of age.
The company, one of the nation’s largest sport retailers, said Wednesday it will stop selling assault-style weapons in its stores and will no longer allow a person under the age of 21 to purchase a gun, regardless of what the local laws are.
“We have civil rights laws that prohibit discrimination on certain basis,” Napolitano told FOX Business’ Stuart Varney on “Varney & Co.” “Race, color, creed, gender, and in New Jersey, age.”
Federal law currently protects people age 40 and older, but under some state laws, for example in New Jersey where Dick’s has multiple stores, you cannot be subject to age discrimination if you are more than 18 years old.
“Can they refuse to sell a gun to a person who is immature and is going to harm themselves or others? Absolutely,” the judge said.
We have long had death and taxes as the two standards of inevitability. But there are those who believe that death is the preferable of the two. "At least," as one man said, "there's one advantage about death; it doesn't get worse every time Congress meets."
Erwin N. Griswold
Taxes: Of life's two certainties, the only one for which you can get an automatic extension.
Anonymous
Again he is looking at it from a Free Market position.. (a non-existant free market)..
He does Not Address the Federal Firearms License. Makes no mention at all and it is the center of the argument.
He also accepts gun control as valid.. when every law written is in fact void.
but those are other subjects.
Liberty is lost through complacency and a subservient mindset. When we accept or even welcome automobile checkpoints, random searches, mandatory identification cards, and paramilitary police in our streets, we have lost a vital part of our American heritage. America was born of protest, revolution, and mistrust of government. Subservient societies neither maintain nor deserve freedom for long.
Ron Paul 2004
Registered Ron Paul supporter # 2202
It's all about Freedom
Do you have a link to what the firearms license actually says about a dealer being able to refuse a sale to a customer? I could not find anything specific on their FAQs. https://www.atf.gov/qa-category/conduct-business
https://www.usnews.com/news/articles...yone-they-want
Ginger Colbrun, public affairs chief for the federal Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives, says licensed gun dealers have broad discretion to deny sales, such as in instances where a buyer appears to exhibit erratic behavior.
“As private business owners, [Federal Firearms License holders] can and do use discretion in determining to whom they will or will not provide service,” Colbrun says.
Last edited by Zippyjuan; 03-03-2018 at 02:40 PM.
Do you have any link that says a licensed agent of the Government in compliance with all known law can refuse sales based on political mood?
Form 4473 (constitutional violation)FFL holders are required to keep a registry of firearms sales in an ATF-approved Bound Book, or a computerized equivalent using ATF-approved software.[7] Licensed dealers must also maintain file copies of Form 4473 or eForm 4473 "Firearms Transaction Record" documents, for a period of not less than 20 years after the date of sale or disposition.[7] When retiring or otherwise relinquishing a license, these records are sent to the ATF's Out-of-Business Records Center.[8] Licensed collectors are not required to send their records to the ATF when relinquishing their license. The ATF is allowed to inspect, as well as request a copy of the Form 4473 from the dealer during the course of a criminal investigation. In addition, the sale of two or more handguns to a person in a five business day period must be reported to ATF on Form 3310.4.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Form_4473
Last edited by pcosmar; 03-03-2018 at 02:45 PM.
Liberty is lost through complacency and a subservient mindset. When we accept or even welcome automobile checkpoints, random searches, mandatory identification cards, and paramilitary police in our streets, we have lost a vital part of our American heritage. America was born of protest, revolution, and mistrust of government. Subservient societies neither maintain nor deserve freedom for long.
Ron Paul 2004
Registered Ron Paul supporter # 2202
It's all about Freedom
Liberty is lost through complacency and a subservient mindset. When we accept or even welcome automobile checkpoints, random searches, mandatory identification cards, and paramilitary police in our streets, we have lost a vital part of our American heritage. America was born of protest, revolution, and mistrust of government. Subservient societies neither maintain nor deserve freedom for long.
Ron Paul 2004
Registered Ron Paul supporter # 2202
It's all about Freedom
Liberty is lost through complacency and a subservient mindset. When we accept or even welcome automobile checkpoints, random searches, mandatory identification cards, and paramilitary police in our streets, we have lost a vital part of our American heritage. America was born of protest, revolution, and mistrust of government. Subservient societies neither maintain nor deserve freedom for long.
Ron Paul 2004
Registered Ron Paul supporter # 2202
It's all about Freedom
Liberty is lost through complacency and a subservient mindset. When we accept or even welcome automobile checkpoints, random searches, mandatory identification cards, and paramilitary police in our streets, we have lost a vital part of our American heritage. America was born of protest, revolution, and mistrust of government. Subservient societies neither maintain nor deserve freedom for long.
Ron Paul 2004
Registered Ron Paul supporter # 2202
It's all about Freedom
WalMart is one of the stores saying they will restrict sales from those 18-21. They are the largest gun retailer in the US. But you are right that "big box stores" are not the main gun sellers.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/money...ons/381618002/
The four largest gun sellers control only 5% of the market. Compare that with cars, where the four biggest automakers sold about 59% of new vehicles in 2017, according to Autodata.
The U.S. had about 6,804 gun shops in 2017, employing 79,764 workers generating $8.6 billion in revenue, according to IBISWorld.
There are more sellers if you count all the licensed individual dealers. The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms listed 56,754 federally licensed firearms dealers in 2016, as well as 8,076 pawnbrokers allowed to sell guns.
The ATF said it does not have data on gun sales by individual retailer or category.
But a 2010 survey of consumers by the National Shooting Sports Foundation found that 39% of buyers purchased their most recent "modern sporting rifle" at an independent retail store, 25% online, 10% at a gun show and only 6% at a chain or big-box retailer.
Last edited by Zippyjuan; 03-03-2018 at 04:25 PM.
Seems we need a 28th amendment to the Constitution, based on the 26th.
The 26th amendment came about during the '60's because 18 yrs-21 year old's were being conscripted without a vote. The same argument could be used today.
28th amendment: "The right of citizens of the United States, who are eighteen years of age or older, to bear arms shall not be denied or abridged by the United States or by any State on account of age."
Last edited by phill4paul; 03-03-2018 at 04:22 PM.
That wouldn't prevent a private enterprise from choosing not to sell to them though.
To achieve that, you'd need an amendment like this:
"Freedom of contract being silly, the right of the people to force private enterprises to sell them stuff shall be enforced by the United States."
Course, we don't really need a constitutional amendment for this.
The SCOTUS has already "interpreted" the constitution to grant the United States similar powers to combat the evils of discrimination...
Liberty is lost through complacency and a subservient mindset. When we accept or even welcome automobile checkpoints, random searches, mandatory identification cards, and paramilitary police in our streets, we have lost a vital part of our American heritage. America was born of protest, revolution, and mistrust of government. Subservient societies neither maintain nor deserve freedom for long.
Ron Paul 2004
Registered Ron Paul supporter # 2202
It's all about Freedom
Wah wahh... (sad trombone)Whether you post a sign or not, businesses never have the right to refuse or turn away customers because of their race, gender, age, nationality or religion.
Read more at https://www.business2community.com/t...nation-0766551
"He's talkin' to his gut like it's a person!!" -me
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"Each of us must choose which course of action we should take: education, conventional political action, or even peaceful civil disobedience to bring about necessary changes. But let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul
"Paul said "the wave of the future" is a coalition of anti-authoritarian progressive Democrats and libertarian Republicans in Congress opposed to domestic surveillance, opposed to starting new wars and in favor of ending the so-called War on Drugs."
Lets try to answer from the Liberty point of view.
First: License is bull$#@!. I understand why people want certain practices to be licensed, and yes, there are criminals out there, but sales in and of itself is not a crime.
Next: Legal Adults. Does that mean there are Illegal Adults? Again, the need is understood. Some people are definitely not responsible with firearms *cough* Dick Cheney. Trouble is that no determined criminal will ever bother with a background check. They will steal the gun, then commit other crimes with it. Other problem is "Legal Adults" (and I get what you mean) is a slippery slope, and their grounds for turning someone into an "Illegal Adult" is so ambiguous that anything can be defined as a probable cause to "remove ones Gun Rights". Rights can not be removed, period. If it can be removed, it is NOT a Right to begin with and is in fact a Permission. The conversion of Rights to Permissions is one of the Communist Planks. If an example is needed, look at Hawaii. If you are a "registered pot smoker" in the state of Hawaii, Gun Rights are revoked. Again, its not a Right if it can be simply revoked. I am not comfortable with the outcome of my own statement however, where there are zero restrictions, but I think thats more on be not thinking properly too. I have to lean on the side that disarming the public because of specific incidents destroying the ability of the people to resist government tyranny is the most dangerous outcome.
Next "violation to refuse a legal sale". I think this might be best approached by Equal Rights. The Rights of men are only limited by the Equal Rights of others. My Rights END where yours BEGIN. When two men of Equal Rights both agree to extend actions beyond those Rights, its more Contract law than a Rights issue. That is important because both men must agree to the terms of the exchange, otherwise the Legal Sale is invalid. Its no different than demanding one person become a teacher (or any profession) to service another men. Or to deprive them of their property or prosperity. Give me welfare or I will demand the government take your money and give me welfare. It just doesnt work. If both parties agree to a sale, great. If one or the other dont agree, then no sale, simple as that.
One of the methods of destroying Rights is to impose restrictions on when those Rights can be applied. For example, a bartender refusing to serve a drink to a drunk. The Rights of the bartender must be so that they can refuse to serve a drink to anyone at any time. The customer has no Right to impose on the Rights of the bartender. Again, Contract Law. The way our current system works would be to limit the Rights of the bartender so they can ONLY refuse to serve a drink under certain conditions, such as suspicion of inability to pay, or if the customer is already drunk. Reading between the lines, it is implied that the bartender has NO Right to refuse service UNLESS those conditions are met. This is government force that ultimately infringes on the Equal Rights of the bartender by setting up a scenario where only ONE of both parties agree to the terms of the exchange.
The opposite here is also true, when the seller wants more than the customer is willing to agree to. So instead of the customer being a dick, in this scenario the bartender is a dick. You must purchase at least ten drinks and consume them. Not gonna happen anywhere but in Bizarro World. However this kind of $#@! happens all the time with Cell Phones. You must agree to the Terms of Service. Two year contract, purchase a new phone every two years, agree to have all communications monitored and submitted to Law Enforcement and Advertisers and Trackers and the NSA and Credit Monitoring Services and that fat kid in the fifth grade that would kick you in the balls repeatedly until you gave him all your lunch money. I give you a dollar and you give me an apple. Thats how its supposed to work. By corporate interference today, it would be I give you a dollar, you give me an apple, but, I would also have to agree to purchase one apple per day at what ever price is demanded every day for the rest of your life, and agree to buy other goods from "friends", and agree to let others monitor the consumption of the apple as well as anything else that is related to the apple and might as well extend to just total surveillance and any refusal to comply with the terms and conditions of the contract will result in your Credit Score being knocked down by fifty points.
In short, if BOTH parties dont agree to the sale, then the sale is Invalid and no exchange can be made.
1776 > 1984
The FAILURE of the United States Government to operate and maintain an Honest Money System , which frees the ordinary man from the clutches of the money manipulators, is the single largest contributing factor to the World's current Economic Crisis.
The Elimination of Privacy is the Architecture of Genocide
Belief, Money, and Violence are the three ways all people are controlled
If the federal law is that firearms should be sold to those 18yrs. of age or older, then the Federal license holder would be forced to sell then to those from the age of 18 forward. If they didn't and discriminated then there license would be revoked. If you are a Federal licensed firearm dealer and refuse to sell to Blacks, or women, how fast do you think it would take to get your chain yanked?
That article doesn't cite any law which prohibits discrimination by retailers against <21 year olds.
The only federal anti-discrimination law relating to age, AFAIK, is the Age Discrimination in Employment Act (limited to employment, obviously).
As was mentioned in one of the articles cited by somebody above, there may be relevant anti-discrimination law at the state level, I don't know.
In any event, I'm much less interested in what the law is than in what the law ought to be.
Are you opposed to freedom of contract, dannno? You think people ought to be forced to makes sales that they don't want to make?
...in general, regardless of whether the "discrimination" is based on age, race, gender, left-handeded, $#@!edness, etc.
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