Kind of what's happening now, don't you think? We're ruled by millenials and gender feminists.Originally Posted by Anti Federalist
#NashvilleStrong
“I’m a doctor. That’s a baby.”~~~Dr. Manny Sethi
I don't really have a dog in this hunt. I don't think it's really a good idea to proof text on this. The individual verses (which are not in the original documents) must be compared to the entire Bible. As I said before, God is always consistent, and if he meant for women never to have a voice anywhere, there would be no examples in Scripture where they do. Jesus first revealed himself to women after the resurrection. Women are shown to be good examples throughout, and not always for being silent and staying home. There were women who held office in the church, and there are and will be women who have insight to share about what God is saying.
#NashvilleStrong
“I’m a doctor. That’s a baby.”~~~Dr. Manny Sethi
Yep nothing new under the sun. Also a country that removes God from it loses it's Liberty.
2 Corinthians 3:17 (KJV)
Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.
“The spirits of darkness are now among us. We have to be on guard so that we may realize what is happening when we encounter them and gain a real idea of where they are to be found. The most dangerous thing you can do in the immediate future will be to give yourself up unconsciously to the influences which are definitely present.” ~ Rudolf Steiner
Going back to the OP, I was looking at the part where older women are to teach younger women (to love their husbands and children), but I see nowhere in the Bible where a woman taught any children but her own. Men should think about that before they say women should be in charge of the children's ministry. There is nothing in Scripture that says children should be segregated in any way from the rest of the congregation. Go all the way back to Israel, and you will never see children separated from families or the congregation. Fighting men were separated for war, but nothing else.
#NashvilleStrong
“I’m a doctor. That’s a baby.”~~~Dr. Manny Sethi
Yes, exactly.
Yup.
That Isaiah's wife was a prophet as well, has no bearing on the verse I quoted.Also since you chose Isaiah he considered his wife to be a prophetess.
Isaiah 8:3
And I went unto the prophetess; and she conceived, and bare a son. Then said the LORD to me, Call his name Mahershalalhashbaz.
Isaiah was making it clear that a society ruled by little tyrants and women was a sign of a society that had turned away from God and lost his favor.
...
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So the 19th century service for Christmas that is held in an historic church down the road from me $#@!ed up another tradition by bringing in some woeman guest "pastor".
Had to make sure that the birth story from Luke was from a modern politically correct bible.
Not "peace on earth, good will toward men".
No, "peace on earth to all in his favor".
Last edited by Anti Federalist; 12-17-2017 at 06:43 PM.
There might be some political correctness behind the replacement of "men" with "all." But there are legitimate translational issues there. The word translated "men" in the KJV doesn't refer strictly to males, but to humans. And the literal translation would be something like, "toward people of good will," (where it's understood to mean people whom God favors), rather than, "good will toward people."
And an adulterer was brought before him. And Jesus said "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone." and the adulterer wife said "Who the $#@! are you Jesus? You don't know what I have to live with, you $#@!ing cis gendered patriarchal religious extremist. What gives you the right to speak in my defense, you $#@!ing $#@! bag. But, if you could lay hands on me and give me a dick so I could $#@!, instead of strap on pegging, Mary M, that'd be cool. But, even then you would still be a cis gendered patriarchal douche."
Last edited by phill4paul; 12-17-2017 at 07:06 PM.
From comments on a similar story from another website:
Yup, that.$#@! the church for the gynocentric $#@! pit of Lilith it has become.
Explains why Islam is ascendant, and weaksauce, mainline Christianity dying off in droves, even among woemen, who have been given un-biblical reign in the church.
Woemen don't want mincing fairies and manginas around them any more than anybody else does.Three-quarters of Britons who become Muslims are female
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...t-6258015.html
They won't come right out and say it, because most woeman's wants and thoughts and desires are an appalling dump heap, dog's breakfast, of conglomerated confusion and non stop hamster wheels of worry, but in the end, they want a strong man who will take charge and lead.
Plus rep, and a very Merry Christmas my brother.
You and I must, sometime soon, tip back a bourbon or three.
A very Merry Christmas to you and yours also, brother. I'm pretty sure that on that day the bottle of bourbon would be ready for recycling by the time it ended.
Unpopular truthism.
The older and more beat up and in pain I get, the less I care about popularity...
What would be even more refreshing... if the word was taught that Christ was conceived on 25th of December and born on September, 29. If you follow the course of Abia and Elizabeth's birth of John the Baptist ( Jesus' cousin ) you can find out when Jesus was born.
Reference:
https://www.ucg.org/bible-study-tool...serve/biblical
http://www.therain.org/appendixes/app179.html
“The spirits of darkness are now among us. We have to be on guard so that we may realize what is happening when we encounter them and gain a real idea of where they are to be found. The most dangerous thing you can do in the immediate future will be to give yourself up unconsciously to the influences which are definitely present.” ~ Rudolf Steiner
Whatever 1 Timothy 2 might or might not mean, it certainly means the most immediate implication that Paul saw fit to draw, namely that women shouldn't be teaching men in an ecclesiastical context. That would rule out female pastors, "priests" etc.
I see that AF is jaded because of Romans 13. Romans 13 is a tricky passage, and unlike the whole issue of women pastors, Romans 13 has some debate during church history, especially during the Reformation.
Personally, I believe Romans 13 is prescriptive, not descriptive, ie. "this is how government, properly defined, is" rather than the total statist version that some people see because I don't think that's consistent with Romans 13:3-5. But even then, I do think the passage teaches that there ought to be a State and that it ought to legislate based off the (objective, Biblical) definitions of good and evil. And I know full well that ain't a popular stance here.
This post represents only the opinions of Christian Liberty and not the rest of the forum. Use discretion when reading
Acts 2:17 (KJV)
“And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:”
Joel 2:28 (KJV)
“And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions:”
Luke 4:18-19 (KJV)
18 The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised,
19 To preach the acceptable year of the Lord.
Isaiah 61:1-2 (KJV)
61 The Spirit of the Lord God is upon me; because the Lord hath anointed me to preach good tidings unto the meek; he hath sent me to bind up the brokenhearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives, and the opening of the prison to them that are bound;
2 To proclaim the acceptable year of the Lord, and the day of vengeance of our God; to comfort all that mourn;
“The spirits of darkness are now among us. We have to be on guard so that we may realize what is happening when we encounter them and gain a real idea of where they are to be found. The most dangerous thing you can do in the immediate future will be to give yourself up unconsciously to the influences which are definitely present.” ~ Rudolf Steiner
Prophets are not church leaders.
Apples and bowling balls.
The Word of God proclaims, “A woman should learn in quietness and full submission. I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man; she must be silent” (1 Timothy 2:11–12)
Jesus was a prophet and head of the Church. We all start out without understanding in this world, but we all need to ask our Father for knowledge and understanding so we can get the wisdom of the Word God.
Smith's Bible Dictionary
Prophet
The ordinary Hebrew word for prophet is nabi , derived from a verb signifying "to bubble forth" like a fountain; hence the word means one who announces or pours forth the declarations of God. The English word comes from the Greek prophetes (profetes), which signifies in classical Greek one who speaks for another , especially one who speaks for a god , and so interprets his will to man; hence its essential meaning is "an interpreter." The use of the word in its modern sense as "one who predicts" is post-classical. The larger sense of interpretation has not, however, been lost. In fact the English word ways been used in a closer sense. The different meanings or shades of meanings in which the abstract noun is employed in Scripture have been drawn out by Locke as follows: "Prophecy comprehends three things: prediction; singing by the dictate of the Spirit; and understanding and explaining the mysterious, hidden sense of Scripture by an immediate illumination and motion of the Spirit." Order and office .
The sacerdotal order was originally the instrument by which the members of the Jewish theocracy were taught and governed in things spiritual. Teaching by act and teaching by word were alike their task. But during the time of the judges, the priesthood sank into a state of degeneracy, and the people were no longer affected by the acted lessons of the ceremonial service. They required less enigmatic warnings and exhortations, under these circumstances a new moral power was evoked the Prophetic Order. Samuel himself Levite of the family of Kohath, (1 Chronicles 6:28) and almost certainly a priest, was the instrument used at once for effecting a reform in the sacerdotal order (1 Chronicles 9:22) and for giving to the prophets a position of importance which they had never before held. Nevertheless it is not to be supposed that Samuel created the prophetic order as a new thing before unknown. The germs both of the prophetic and of the regal order are found in the law as given to the Isr'lites by Moses, (13:1; 18:20; 17:18) but they were not yet developed, because there was not yet the demand for them. Samuel took measures to make his work of restoration permanent as well as effective for the moment. For this purpose he instituted companies or colleges of prophets. One we find in his lifetime at Ramah, (1 Samuel 19:19,20) others afterward at Bethel, (2 Kings 2:3) Jericho, (2 Kings 2:2,5) Gilgal; (2 Kings 4:38) and elsewhere. (2 Kings 6:1) Their constitution and object similar to those of theological colleges. Into them were gathered promising students, and here they were trained for the office which they were afterward destined to fulfill. So successful were these institutions that from the time of Samuel to the closing of the canon of the Old Testament there seems never to have been wanting due supply of men to keep up the line of official prophets. Their chief subject of study was, no doubt, the law and its interpretation; oral, as distinct from symbolical, teaching being thenceforward tacitly transferred from the priestly to the prophetic order. Subsidiary subjects of instruction were music and sacred poetry, both of which had been connected with prophecy from the time of Moses (Exodus 15:20) and the judges. (Judges 4:4; 5:1) But to belong to the prophetic order and to possess the prophetic gift are not convertible terms. Generally, the inspired prophet came from the college of prophets, and belonged to prophetic order; but this was not always the case. Thus Amos though called to the prophetic office did not belong to the prophetic order. (Amos 7:14) The sixteen prophets whose books are in the canon have that place of honor because they were endowed with the prophetic gift us well as ordinarily (so far as we know) belonging to the prophetic order. Characteristics .
What then are the characteristics of the sixteen prophets thus called and commissioned and intrusted with the messages of God to his people?
They were the national poets of Judea.
They were annalists and historians. A great portion of Isaiah, of Jeremiah, of Daniel of Jonah, of Haggai, is direct or in direct history.
They were preachers of patriotism,
their patriotism being founded on the religious motive.
They were preachers of morals and of spiritual religion. The system of morals put forward by the prophets, if not higher or sterner or purer than that of the law, is more plainly declared, and with greater, because now more needed, vehemence of diction.
They were extraordinary but yet authorized exponents of the law.
They held a pastoral or quasi-pastoral office.
They were a political power in the state.
But the prophets were something more than national poets and annalists, preachers of patriotism moral teachers, exponents of the law, pastors and politicians. Their most essential characteristic is that they were instruments of revealing God's will to man, as in other ways, so specially by predicting future events, and in particular foretelling the incarnation of the Lord Jesus Christ and the redemption effected by him. We have a series of prophecies which are so applicable to the person and earthly life of Jesus Christ as to be thereby shown to have been designed to apply to him. And if they were designed to apply to him, prophetical prediction is proved. Objections have, been urged. We notice only one, vis., vagueness. It has been said that the prophecies are too darkly and vaguely worded to be proved predictive by the events which they are alleged to foretell. But to this might be answered,
That God never forces men to believe, but that there is such a union of definiteness and vagueness in the prophecies as to enable those who are willing to discover the truth, while the willfully blind are not forcibly constrained to see it.
That, had the prophecies been couched in the form of direct declarations, their fulfillment would have thereby been rendered impossible or at least capable of frustration.
That the effect of prophecy would have been far less beneficial to believers, as being less adapted to keep them in a state of constant expectation.
That the Messiah of revelation could not be so clearly portrayed in his varied character as God and man, as prophet, priest and king, if he had been the mere teacher."
That the state of the prophets, at the time of receiving the divine revelation, was such as necessarily to make their predictions fragmentary figurative, and abstracted from the relations of time.
That some portions of the prophecies were intended to be of double application, and some portions to be understood only on their fulfillment, Comp. (John 14:29; Ezekiel 36:33)http://kingjamesbibledictionary.com/Dictionary/prophetsWebster's 1828 Dictionary
Prophetess
PROPH'ETESS, noun A female prophet; a woman who foretells future events, as Miriam, Huldah, Anna, etc. Exodus 15:20. Judges 4:4. Luke 2:36.
https://www.etymonline.com/word/prophetprophet (n.)
late 12c., "person who speaks for God; one who foretells, inspired preacher," from Old French prophete, profete "prophet, soothsayer" (11c., Modern French prophète) and directly from Latin propheta, from Greek prophetes (Doric prophatas) "an interpreter, spokesman," especially of the gods, "inspired preacher or teacher," from pro "before" (from PIE root *per- (1) "forward," hence "in front of, before") + root of phanai "to speak," from PIE root *bha- (2) "to speak, tell, say."
The Greek word was used in Septuagint for Hebrew nabj "soothsayer." Early Latin writers translated Greek prophetes with Latin vates, but the Latinized form propheta predominated in post-Classical times, chiefly due to Christian writers, probably because of pagan associations of vates. In English, meaning "prophetic writer of the Old Testament" is from late 14c. Non-religious sense is from 1848; used of Muhammad from 1610s (translating Arabic al-nabiy, and sometimes also al-rasul, properly "the messenger"). The Latin word is glossed in Old English by witga.
“The spirits of darkness are now among us. We have to be on guard so that we may realize what is happening when we encounter them and gain a real idea of where they are to be found. The most dangerous thing you can do in the immediate future will be to give yourself up unconsciously to the influences which are definitely present.” ~ Rudolf Steiner
Reducing Christ to a prophet or rabbi(teacher) is an error that comes to us from Deists and a couple 19th century American religious philosophers I've read. He is the Son Of God and Lord, not Rabbi.(Matthew 26:25, John 14:7, John 10:30) It is accurate that he is head of the True Orthodox Church, though.
The Order of Melchisedec-- Hebrews 7:21 KJV. Jesus is the most highest Priest.Reducing Christ to a prophet or rabbi(teacher) is an error that comes to us from Deists and a couple 19th century American religious philosophers I've read. He is the Son Of God and Lord, not Rabbi.(Matthew 26:25, John 14:7, John 10:30) It is accurate that he is head of the True Orthodox Church, though.
“The spirits of darkness are now among us. We have to be on guard so that we may realize what is happening when we encounter them and gain a real idea of where they are to be found. The most dangerous thing you can do in the immediate future will be to give yourself up unconsciously to the influences which are definitely present.” ~ Rudolf Steiner
So, God's word, through Paul, as written in Timothy, is to be ignored?
II Timothy 2:15 (KJV)
15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
http://worldeventsandthebible.com/20...tml#more-33566Who was speaking, was it God? No, it was Paul. Paul was making this statement and we will learn the context as we move forward. Remember, at the time of this writing it was not very common for a woman to be a leader, but as we will learn there certainly have been women leaders and teachers of the Word. We should understand both the woman and the man have their own roles to fulfill in a marriage. Naturally the woman brings the family unit together through her role as a nurturer and where would we all be without Mom? While the man’s role is to be the provider and protector of the family. Men and woman are certainly different creatures and what I just stated documents itself.
Paul also said the woman should not “usurp authority over the man“. This word “authority” is Strong’s word 831 and it means, “dominate – usurp authority over“. A woman in the natural sense is not to dominate the relationship, it should be the man leading and we will document that is Biblical in a moment. This does not mean the man should treat his wife poorly, you should love, lead and take care of your family in all aspects. Remember when a man and woman join together “they shall be one flesh” (Genesis 2:24). All too often some people try to use scripture to make the woman appear as if she is lower than the man, that is just not Biblical. Rather each, the man and woman have their own separate roles to fulfill.
Please turn your Bible with me to,
Ephesians 5:24
24 “Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in every thing.”
This does not mean the man lords over his wife. The man is to lead the family unit by example and that example is the one Christ set for us (1 Corinthians 11:3).
Let us continue.
Ephesians 5:25
25 “Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;”
The love for a husband is compared to Christ’s love for the church which is simply the many membered body of Christ being you and I. Christ loved us so much He gave His own life so that we might live if we believe on Him. Think about that for a moment. That is the love a husband is supposed to have for his wife. When you understand that, then you will know without a doubt the man is not to lord over the wife or treat her with a lower level of respect. Remember, Christ is our example and He came to be a servant to us.
Ephesians 5:28
28 “So ought men to love their wives as their own bodies. He that loveth his wife loveth himself.”
Love your wife as yourself.
Ephesians 5:29
29 “For no man ever yet hated his own flesh; but nourisheth and cherisheth it, even as the Lord the church:”
Why are those verses important with respect to the question being asked? They should help put in perspective 1 Timothy 2:12 which Shermanda is asking about. Paul was not trying to put down woman, I believe he was making the point that it should be the man who leads not only the family unit, but the church as well. Let me add, a man who will not lead his family and forces his wife to lead the family is not much of a man in my eyes.
We are now going to look at two examples in the past where woman not only lead, but they taught the Word as well. Please turn your Bible with me to,
Judges 4:4
4 “And Deborah, a prophetess, the wife of Lapidoth, she judged Israel at that time.”
Deborah was a great example of not only a woman leading and teaching, but she did it when no other man would. Again, this is the point Paul was making, a man should take on the leadership role, not the woman. But no man would make a stand for God, so Deborah did and how proud our Father was of her. Acts 21:9 also documents Philip “had four daughters, virgins, which did prophesy“. This word “prophesy” is Strong’s word 4395 and it means, “speak under inspiration“. Under what “inspiration“, the inspiration of the Holy Spirit!
Our Father had no problem using woman to fulfill His Word and neither should any of us.
“The spirits of darkness are now among us. We have to be on guard so that we may realize what is happening when we encounter them and gain a real idea of where they are to be found. The most dangerous thing you can do in the immediate future will be to give yourself up unconsciously to the influences which are definitely present.” ~ Rudolf Steiner
So, there you have it.I believe he was making the point that it should be the man who leads not only the family unit, but the church as well. Let me add, a man who will not lead his family and forces his wife to lead the family is not much of a man in my eyes.
Men are responsible for allowing woemen to run amok.
If we re-assert our proper leadership roles, then it behooves woemen to submit to that leadership.
And there you go cherry picking and twisting a paragraph to make your case. *Smh & sighing*
So good, Romans 13 can be disregarded, as it wasn't the inspired word of God but simply a man named Paul writing that.Who was speaking, was it God? No, it was Paul. Paul was making this statement and we will learn the context as we move forward
So let me ask you this... what is it in Romans 13 that shakes you up so much?
ETA:
ROMANS 13:1
“Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God.”
The word “ordained” is Strong’s word G5021 and it means, “to arrange in an orderly manner“. Our Father always operates in an orderly manner to ensure that His Word comes to pass exactly as it is written. That is why He ultimately “arranges” the powers of the world.
God has a plan, we must apply common sense when studying God's Word.
Daniel 2:21
21 “And he changeth the times and the seasons: he removeth kings, and setteth up kings: he giveth wisdom unto the wise, and knowledge to them that know understanding:”
Ephesians 6:12
12 “For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.”
This a simple battle of Good Vs. Evil.
Last edited by donnay; 12-31-2017 at 11:37 AM.
“The spirits of darkness are now among us. We have to be on guard so that we may realize what is happening when we encounter them and gain a real idea of where they are to be found. The most dangerous thing you can do in the immediate future will be to give yourself up unconsciously to the influences which are definitely present.” ~ Rudolf Steiner
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