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Thread: Does the West have the will to survive?

  1. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by VIDEODROME View Post
    So do we really want to aspire to be a brutal dog-eat-dog Natural Selection world?

    I think the Left wants to move beyond that and maybe it could be thought of as Artificial Selection. We've long been operating under a Darwinian Natural Selection model, but maybe they think it doesn't have to remain that way or we can do better.

    Maybe that's naive though and Humans are not capable of that moving beyond such cut throat behavior or just looking to screw each other over.
    You are advocating evil and so is the left, you want to give someone power to create a "perfect" world and all you will get is a dystopian nightmare when that power is used by the corrupt.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment



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  3. #32
    Europe will be brought to the brink of death, at that point they will either change in response to the crisis and recover or they will die.
    America has begun to turn the ship around with Trump, it is not enough yet but if we can keep turning the ship we may survive, the left will break out in violence if we continue to turn things around and the outcome of that conflict will determine our fate.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment



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  5. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Europe will be brought to the brink of death, at that point they will either change in response to the crisis and recover or they will die.
    America has begun to turn the ship around with Trump, it is not enough yet but if we can keep turning the ship we may survive, the left will break out in violence if we continue to turn things around and the outcome of that conflict will determine our fate.
    Trump can't save the ship. It's going down no matter what. But he can prepare people for the inevitable. His interactions with the corrupt press illuminate the true face of our society and it's not pretty.

  6. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    You are advocating evil and so is the left, you want to give someone power to create a "perfect" world and all you will get is a dystopian nightmare when that power is used by the corrupt.
    I'm for what we've achieved even with our flaws. I don't follow the ideas mentioned here that we need to destroy America so it can be rebuilt.

    I'm also not sure what the appeal is for the embrace of Dog-eat-dog survival of the fittest. I think we have to much of that and its what leads to things like ENRON.

    Not trying to push for a central architect of society, but questioning the appeal of that kind of cut throat culture or why people want a more primitive lifestyle or dislike modernity so much.

  7. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by VIDEODROME View Post
    I'm for what we've achieved even with our flaws. I don't follow the ideas mentioned here that we need to destroy America so it can be rebuilt.

    I'm also not sure what the appeal is for the embrace of Dog-eat-dog survival of the fittest. I think we have to much of that and its what leads to things like ENRON.

    Not trying to push for a central architect of society, but questioning the appeal of that kind of cut throat culture or why people want a more primitive lifestyle or dislike modernity so much.
    Can you figure a way to provide "modernity" with far less government?

    Regardless our fine government will see to it that our collectively cushy lifestyle ends before long what with pissing off folks from all corners of the globe. Somebody will manage to strike a resounding blow, probably sooner than later, whether it's biological or to the power grid, life will tend to be far from cushy...
    Last edited by tod evans; 06-22-2018 at 03:51 PM.

  8. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by VIDEODROME View Post
    I'm for what we've achieved even with our flaws. I don't follow the ideas mentioned here that we need to destroy America so it can be rebuilt.

    I'm also not sure what the appeal is for the embrace of Dog-eat-dog survival of the fittest. I think we have to much of that and its what leads to things like ENRON.

    Not trying to push for a central architect of society, but questioning the appeal of that kind of cut throat culture or why people want a more primitive lifestyle or dislike modernity so much.
    Because nothing better is possible as anything more than voluntary behavior that many people will not participate in, the moment you give the government power to compel superior behavior you give it the power to compel any behavior and the corrupt will use it to do evil things.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  9. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by tod evans View Post
    Can you figure a way to provide "modernity" with far less government?
    As smarter foreign policy and modern leaner military. I sometimes we're always arming ourselves like we're still in the Cold War.

    Otherwise, maybe there is potential for drone tech having a role in transporting goods so less road damage.

    Or do the opposite of that Foxconn nonsense coming to Wisconsin. These colossal businesses should be paying taxes, not getting huge breaks. Thats not smaller government exactly, but rebalancing the tax burden.

  10. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by VIDEODROME View Post
    I'm for what we've achieved even with our flaws. I don't follow the ideas mentioned here that we need to destroy America so it can be rebuilt.

    I'm also not sure what the appeal is for the embrace of Dog-eat-dog survival of the fittest. I think we have to much of that and its what leads to things like ENRON.

    Not trying to push for a central architect of society, but questioning the appeal of that kind of cut throat culture or why people want a more primitive lifestyle or dislike modernity so much.
    The promise of technology haven't been collectively earned and that's why it is so dangerous. A sizable swath of the general public possesses a rudimentary reading level, despite being addicted to the hypnotic glow of their smart phones. Zombies like this will never be receptive to the call of property rights or the non aggression principle. Their time is up, but they don't know it yet.
    Last edited by AuH20; 06-22-2018 at 05:32 PM.

  11. #39
    I see technology as empowering people, which I suppose can be good or bad or merely squandered.

    As for aggression, it sounds like some people here are want to see the system collapse and then pick up the pieces in a harsher survival of the fittest world of some kind. Maybe some see Taxation as Theft or aggression, but I don't see throwing away what we have now to solve that as a good trade off.

  12. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by VIDEODROME View Post
    I see technology as empowering people, which I suppose can be good or bad or merely squandered.

    As for aggression, it sounds like some people here are want to see the system collapse and then pick up the pieces in a harsher survival of the fittest world of some kind. Maybe some see Taxation as Theft or aggression, but I don't see throwing away what we have now to solve that as a good trade off.
    What do you suggest, wise one?



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  14. #41
    No the west is on its dying legs.
    "Perhaps one of the most important accomplishments of my administration is minding my own business."

    Calvin Coolidge

  15. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by VIDEODROME View Post
    I see technology as empowering people, .
    At the cost of tethering them.

    Kind of the antithesis of freedom....

  16. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by VIDEODROME View Post
    I see technology as empowering people, which I suppose can be good or bad or merely squandered.
    Technology is good for quality of life but a danger to freedom, before metallurgy there were no chains.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  17. #44
    Will western civilization and culture as you think of it survive ? Probably not . Oyarde will survive though and live luxuriously .
    Do something Danke

  18. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by timosman View Post
    What do you suggest, wise one?
    Be patient as Tech evolves. I think the presence of GNU/Linux and the Free Open Source Software movement helps.

    I also think Television Media will eventually die and be replaced by on-demand streaming content including news. The old commercial driven 24 Hour News cycle constantly trying to hold attention for ratings is a disaster. I hope Radio news dies as well to be replaced by something like subscriber premium podcasts.

    I'm also holding out and hoping Facebook's dominance is vulnerable.

    If we keep advancing, I wonder if highly advanced portable fabrication Tech could lead to so much self sufficiency, people would be more free.

  19. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by VIDEODROME View Post
    Be patient as Tech evolves. I think the presence of GNU/Linux and the Free Open Source Software movement helps.

    I also think Television Media will eventually die and be replaced by on-demand streaming content including news. The old commercial driven 24 Hour News cycle constantly trying to hold attention for ratings is a disaster. I hope Radio news dies as well to be replaced by something like subscriber premium podcasts.

    I'm also holding out and hoping Facebook's dominance is vulnerable.

    If we keep advancing, I wonder if highly advanced portable fabrication Tech could lead to so much self sufficiency, people would be more free.
    But they will never leave you alone. Help the poor!

  20. #47
    Survive? The West doesn't even have the will to regard itself as something distinct and particular and, most importantly, ​superior.
    NeoReactionary. American High Tory.

    The counter-revolution will not be televised.

  21. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Technology is good for quality of life but a danger to freedom, before metallurgy there were no chains.
    +rep
    Quote Originally Posted by timosman View Post
    This is getting silly.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    It started silly.
    T.S. Eliot's The Hollow Men

    "One of the penalties for refusing to participate in politics is that you end up being governed by your inferiors." - Plato

    We Are Running Out of Time - Mini Me

    Quote Originally Posted by Philhelm
    I part ways with "libertarianism" when it transitions from ideology grounded in logic into self-defeating autism for the sake of ideological purity.



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  23. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by jllundqu View Post
    Welcome to the Collapsitarian party.
    Ethnic cleansing like what @AuH20 advocates could be related to a collapse, or separate from one.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Pinochet is the model
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Liberty preserving authoritarianism.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Enforced internal open borders was one of the worst elements of the Constitution.

  24. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by tod evans View Post
    At the cost of tethering them.

    Kind of the antithesis of freedom....
    Tethered? By having an account or email address?

    Could a person also be considered Tethered by ownership of their house or car? Or their job?

  25. #51
    The only way out of this, is to man up and do what must be done: vote really hard
    It's all about taking action and not being lazy. So you do the work, whether it's fitness or whatever. It's about getting up, motivating yourself and just doing it.
    - Kim Kardashian

    Donald Trump / Crenshaw 2024!!!!

    My pronouns are he/him/his

  26. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by timosman View Post
    But they will never leave you alone. Help the poor!
    I guess I'm wondering if parts of the system can be reformed instead of tossing everything and starting over. I think our system is okay, it's just that certain ultra wealthy people or companies are able to buy influence over it. The absurdity is mostly so that the candidates can buy the most Commercial Air Time. Stuff like this is why I think ending the old Television based media will be good. They've also let the debates turn into an awful spectacle.... again thanks to ratings.

    It would be nice if this was completely replaced by a free format with no commercials and more open access to candidates. Basically, getting the old media out might reduce the need for all this campaign money in return for selling political influence.

    If more regular people can have influence it would feel more like a Representative Government again. I won't say that means all taxes just go away, but average people having more say in what goes on would be more like Taxation With Representation.

    I think this is still a decent nation and system of government, but it has clearly been hijacked by powerful wealthy interests. The politicians seem to have to decide whether to take that money or refuse it and lose to the opponent who outspent them. I would rather see a reform solve this than hope for everything to fall apart.

  27. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    How about we just keep them out in the first place and throw out the ones who are here?
    You know, it doesn't go unnoticed, that every time I claim your fundamental position is that they're not human, nobody ever protests.
    There are no crimes against people.
    There are only crimes against the state.
    And the state will never, ever choose to hold accountable its agents, because a thing can not commit a crime against itself.

  28. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by AuH20 View Post
    Until the environmental factors change, I don't think we will see any tangible form of liberty. We need to get back to basics first and the cycle must begin anew. Experience builds principles and then the benefits follow. The current population is largely incapable of becoming what many of this site desire to be. It's not going to happen.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    The man behind the curtain is promoting the left and polluting the right, the left believes in nothing good and can't be saved, the right believes in good things and can be saved if it is cleansed.
    Even without a cleansing a world ruled by the right would be better than the world the left is creating.
    Quote Originally Posted by VIDEODROME View Post

    Or do the opposite of that Foxconn nonsense coming to Wisconsin. These colossal businesses should be paying taxes, not getting huge breaks. Thats not smaller government exactly, but rebalancing the tax burden.

    Bravo, gents. It's almost like I was reading the very words of Ron Paul himself.


  29. #55
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    And that's a wrap!


  30. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheCount View Post
    Ethnic cleansing like what @AuH20 advocates could be related to a collapse, or separate from one.
    Ethnic cleansing? A sizable percentage of whites need to fade away. They are just as much as part of the problem. We have a human problem as opposed to purely a minority problem. The minority problem is simply augmenting and rapidly speeding up the existing structural problems created by the native population.

    I figure that an EMP detonated in the upper atmosphere would do a hell of a job culling Progressotopia and really throw the evil machinations of Fed Gov for a loop. Facial recognition would be useless with their integrated circuits fried. With the security grid blown to bits, at least our people would have a chance at some type of future.
    Last edited by AuH20; 06-23-2018 at 08:21 AM.



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  32. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by fisharmor View Post
    You know, it doesn't go unnoticed, that every time I claim your fundamental position is that they're not human, nobody ever protests.
    I do.
    There is no spoon.

  33. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by AuH20 View Post
    Ethnic cleansing?
    You said that there needs to be a purge to create an ideal world of ethnically distinct nations. You even referred to it as purification. How else would you characterize that if not ethnic cleansing?

    Quote Originally Posted by AuH20 View Post
    In a perfect world, there would be a relatively balanced table of nations, ethnically distinct from each other
    Quote Originally Posted by AuH20 View Post
    I am of the opinion that the West must be purged, before it can be survive. We need purification and renewal.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Pinochet is the model
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Liberty preserving authoritarianism.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Enforced internal open borders was one of the worst elements of the Constitution.

  34. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by fisharmor View Post
    You know, it doesn't go unnoticed, that every time I claim your fundamental position is that they're not human, nobody ever protests.
    On the other hand not being treated as a human by your employer or your own government is okay.

  35. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by fisharmor View Post
    You know, it doesn't go unnoticed, that every time I claim your fundamental position is that they're not human, nobody ever protests.
    ->

    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    No, here they are invaders and trespassers, that leaves them with some human rights (such as the right to not be tortured) but it makes them less welcome or justified in their presence than dogs, or stones, or trees.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Pinochet is the model
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Liberty preserving authoritarianism.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Enforced internal open borders was one of the worst elements of the Constitution.

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