"Rights" do not come from the "Constitution"...

[ChristianAnarchist]

Total confusion about what "rights" are and where they come from...

"I am not going to dwell on the legality of Trump’s statement because it is already established. Apart from the fact that the American Constitution does not give any rights to foreigners, according to the federal Immigration and Nationality Act, “Whenever the president finds that the entry of any aliens or of any class of aliens into the United States would be detrimental to the interests of the United States, he may by proclamation, and for such period as he deems necessary, suspend the entry of all aliens or any class of aliens.”"

http://archive.is/kn8RB

This is how people lose sight of the issues and get on the wrong track...
RIGHTS come from the Creator!! They do not come from the "Constitution" and certainly not from the goonerment!! I guess you can say that the opinion above is correct in that the constitution does not give rights to "foreigners" since it does not give rights to ANYONE.

So if one realized the truth that rights come from the Creator and not the goonerment then you can see that there's no way to make an argument that an immigrant has LESS rights than a "citizen". You will be in a position of saying that God has granted certain rights to some people but denied that right to others. I don't think God works that way. Even the clowns in the Supreme Court have ruled that everyone has the same rights (but then they inconsistently deny rights to certain people...) See Yick Wo v. Hopkins. https://www.law.cornell.edu/supremecourt/text/118/356

Are certain "foreigners" a problem? Yes they are. Are we supposed to deny any access to God's country because some people are bad?? Better ask God about that - I don't think he agrees...

[presence]

correct.

I'm with you 110% here.

immigrants can be granted fewer entitlements but have no less inherent, natural, God given rights

the exercise of any or all of our inherent rights without creating a victim of theft or violence is liberty

[ChristianAnarchist]

correct.

I'm with you 110% here.

immigrants can be granted fewer entitlements but have no less inherent, natural, God given rights

the exercise of any or all of our inherent rights without creating a victim of theft or violence is liberty

And one of the rights granted by our Creator (I believe) is the right to travel freely... All you closed border people who claim to be Christians please explain how the Creator gave you more rights than someone from "over there"...

[Ender]

correct.

I'm with you 110% here.

immigrants can be granted fewer entitlements but have no less inherent, natural, God given rights

the exercise of any or all of our inherent rights without creating a victim of theft or violence is liberty

Agree-

This is why many of the states were hesitant about the Constitution and why the BoR was added in the first place. Freedom does NOT come from government.

[Zippyjuan]

And one of the rights granted by our Creator (I believe) is the right to travel freely... All you closed border people who claim to be Christians please explain how the Creator gave you more rights than someone from "over there"...

Is there a list of rights the Creator has give us? Maybe in the Bible?

[ChristianAnarchist]

Is there a list of rights the Creator has give us? Maybe in the Bible?

There's only one list I know of... it says "all"...

[presence]

Is there a list of rights the Creator has give us? Maybe in the Bible?

1 Corinthians 16:14

do everything in love

Gospel of Thomas 6

don't do what you hate

Luke 6:31

and as ye would that men should do to you,
do ye also to them likewise

[PierzStyx]

This quote really just drove the last nail in the coffin of any support I had for Rand Paul. It has become clear to me that he hasn't the basic understanding of what rights are or where they come from. Of course the Constitution doesn't give immigrants any rights. It doesn't give anybody rights. You already have ALL rights. The Constitution is meant to protect everybody's rights, including immigrants and foreigners, from government interference. Of course it doesn't actually do that, but that was the original selling argument.

It amazes me how few on here understand rights.

[fedupinmo]

That the "immigrants" have rights is not questioned... however the Constitution only binds the gov to defend the rights of its citizens, and sometimes it binds gov to protect the citizen's right at the expense of the foreigner, especially when the foreigner is 9 times out of 10 going to yell for more socialism.
Myself, I would like to see immigration halted until we can get our own liberty back in order, without that extra competition.

[LibertyEagle]

Are certain "foreigners" a problem? Yes they are. Are we supposed to deny any access to God's country because some people are bad?? Better ask God about that - I don't think he agrees...

I'll bet he does. Don't forget that God has no problem laying out a litmus test for those who will be allowed in Heaven.

[Ender]

I'll bet he does. Don't forget that God has no problem laying out a litmus test for those who will be allowed in Heaven.

Yeah, the litmus is 2 fold-

Love God with all your heart, might, mind and strength.

Love your neighbor as yourself.

[Natural Citizen]

It amazes me how few on here understand rights.

Well, let me ask you something since you know so much. Does a person who is not an citizen of this country possess the right to come here and be left alone by our government (of, by, and for the people) to pursue his happiness? Whatever it may be. We don't always know, of course. Maybe he gets off on blowing 5 year olds up at school, talking about Allahu Akbar or something sweet like that because, you know, he feels it's his God-given moral responsibility, duty, and natural right. If so, then how? Additionally, and given that American citizens delegate their government with Just Powers in order to protect their Individual rights, how would your foreign citizen excercise his right to prohibit American government from bothering him once he is here? While I've read the moral case for unalienable rights, there also exists a responsibility or duty for every right that American citizens (again, whom delegate their government's just powers) have. Which, when broken down, means simply Right-Duty, Feedom-Responsibility, and ultimately this equates to Liberty-Responsibility as an inseparable whole. Share with us your wisdom.

Thank You, PierzStyx.

[Natural Citizen]

As an after-thought, it's my view that most of the comments here are likely from people who actually reject the very notion of the constitution and the traditional American philosophy of governance as a whole. Put up a poll and I'll guarantee it. I've been around here long enough to know.

It's truly amazing how many different factions we have gathering under the liberty banner, though. In many cases, some are actually working against it. But you'd never know it to hear them tell it.

Any casual passers-by who may happen across this thread, my advice is to be very careful who you listen to. Some people will have you thinking you're working in favor of the cause of Individual Liberty when you're actually working to forward anarchy/socialism/ or about a half-dozen other isms. And they won't ever tell you otherwise. They'll just turn you loose to spread their bullsht. It's one of the main reasons I don't like people who merely identify as libertarian. Read what they type for five minutes and you'll sure as sht see otherwise if you know what it is that you're actually looking at and understand what they're truly arguing against.

The original text of the Constitution clearly says We The People. The Constitution is a document FOR the United States. Not Of. This distinction is very, very important to recognize as the tail tries to wag the dog. And what we are seeing more and more these days, mainly in places like this when the anarchsts start popping off, is people argue against the constitution in a way that projects the notion that the document was written OF the United States of America while completely ignoring (likely they don't even know) that It was written FOR We The People of the United States of America. Nobody else.

[ChristianAnarchist]

Well, let me ask you something since you know so much. Does a person who is not an citizen of this country possess the right to come here and be left alone by our government (of, by, and for the people) to pursue his happiness? Whatever it may be. We don't always know, of course. Maybe he gets off on blowing 5 year old up at school, talking abour Allahu Akbar or something sweet like that because, you know, he feels it's his God-given moral responsibility, duty, and right. If so, then how? Additionally, and given that American citizens delegate their government with Just Powers in order to protect their Individual rights, how would your foreign citizen excercise his right to prohibit American government from bothering him once he is here? While I've read the moral case for unalienable rights, there also exists a responsibility or duty for every right that American citizens (again, whom delegate their government's just powers) have. Which, when broken down, means simply Right-Duty, Feedom-Responsibility, and ultimately this equates to Liberty-Responsibility as an inseparable whole. Share
with us your wisdom.

Thank You, PierzStyx.

I don't recall "delegating" anything to a "goonerment" and "they" certainly don't care what I say or believe...
Also "Just Powers" would be great if you could actually hold the goonerment goons to that.

[TommyJeff]

Correct!
rights aren't given to us by a document.


But your point about immigration is confusing. While a foreigner has the "right" to happiness, that does not mean the foreigner can enter my house if it makes them happy.

A creator gives the rights to all regardless of geographic location, right? You're not suggesting foreigners currently are without natural rights, are you? I'm in total agreement with your subject and confused by the dots you're trying to connect to immigration. Would you explain please

[TommyJeff]

The Constitution is meant to protect everybody's rights, including immigrants and foreigners, from government interference.

What?

Did you mean this?

the constitution of the United States of America protects foreigners?

[Ender]

What?

Did you mean this?

the constitution of the United States of America protects foreigners?

Yes- the Declaration states exactly what are the rights of all men.

What is necessary is an understanding of Common Law and property rights; the combination of those 2 precepts along with no federal entitlements/regulations etc. would certainly bring a breath of fresh liberty to all concerned.

[LibertyEagle]

Yeah, the litmus is 2 fold-

Love God with all your heart, might, mind and strength.

Love your neighbor as yourself.

BONG. Wrong. Try again.

[TommyJeff]

Yes- the Declaration states exactly what are the rights of all men.

What is necessary is an understanding of Common Law and property rights; the combination of those 2 precepts along with no federal entitlements/regulations etc. would certainly bring a breath of fresh liberty to all concerned.

Declaring rights may be universal, but the United States constitution doesn't apply to a iraqi citizen in iraq. Are you suggesting different?

[Ender]

BONG. Wrong. Try again.

^^^BETTER TO THOUGHT A FOOL THAN TO POST STUPID ANSWERS AND BE KNOWN AS ONE ^^^

[Ender]

Declaring rights may be universal, but the United States constitution doesn't apply to a iraqi citizen in iraq. Are you suggesting different?

Not at all- but it does apply to an Iraqi in the US.

[ChristianAnarchist]

Declaring rights may be universal, but the United States constitution doesn't apply to a iraqi citizen in iraq. Are you suggesting different?

You are actually right on both counts but for reasons that I doubt you believe. Yes, rights are universal as they come from the Creator and cannot exist differently for men in different parts of the globe... And yes, the "constitution" doesn't apply to an Iraqi citizen just as it doesn't apply to a "US citizen"... If the "constitution" has any authority at all (I don't see that it does) it would only apply to the US goonerment... not to US citizens (or any citizens)...

[Ender]

You are actually right on both counts but for reasons that I doubt you believe. Yes, rights are universal as they come from the Creator and cannot exist differently for men in different parts of the globe... And yes, the "constitution" doesn't apply to an Iraqi citizen just as it doesn't apply to a "US citizen"... If the "constitution" has any authority at all (I don't see that it does) it would only apply to the US goonerment... not to US citizens (or any citizens)...

Actually, this is true- the Constitution was for the government, not the people.

[timosman]

That the "immigrants" have rights is not questioned... however the Constitution only binds the gov to defend the rights of its citizens, and sometimes it binds gov to protect the citizen's right at the expense of the foreigner, especially when the foreigner is 9 times out of 10 going to yell for more socialism.
Myself, I would like to see immigration halted until we can get our own liberty back in order, without that extra competition.

Enough of this $#@!?

[Superfluous Man]

Is there a list of rights the Creator has give us? Maybe in the Bible?

We don't need a list. But yes, the Bible does contain specific moral injunctions, which are corollaries to rights (i.e. do not steal).

[Superfluous Man]

What?

Did you mean this?

the constitution of the United States of America protects foreigners?

Sure. It limits the powers of the federal government. At least supposedly.

If the federal government stays within its limitations, that protects all people from having their rights violated by it, does it not?

[Superfluous Man]

Well, let me ask you something since you know so much. Does a person who is not an citizen of this country possess the right to come here and be left alone by our government (of, by, and for the people) to pursue his happiness? Whatever it may be. We don't always know, of course. Maybe he gets off on blowing 5 year olds up at school, talking about Allahu Akbar or something sweet like that because, you know, he feels it's his God-given moral responsibility, duty, and natural right. If so, then how? Additionally, and given that American citizens delegate their government with Just Powers in order to protect their Individual rights, how would your foreign citizen excercise his right to prohibit American government from bothering him once he is here? While I've read the moral case for unalienable rights, there also exists a responsibility or duty for every right that American citizens (again, whom delegate their government's just powers) have. Which, when broken down, means simply Right-Duty, Feedom-Responsibility, and ultimately this equates to Liberty-Responsibility as an inseparable whole. Share with us your wisdom.

Thank You, PierzStyx.

Nobody has a right to violate the rights of others.

That has nothing to do with whether or not they're foreigners.

[timosman]

We don't need a list. But yes, the Bible does contain specific moral injunctions, which are corollaries to rights (i.e. do not steal).

US citizenship?

[Matt Collins]

Serious question.... is illegal immigration trespassing, or should the government not have anything to do with the supply and price curves of labor?

[timosman]

Serious question.... is illegal immigration trespassing, or should the government not have anything to do with the supply and price curves of labor?

Is this a serious question?