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Thread: National Guard May Deploy as Socialists, Unions Wreak Havoc in Wisconsin

  1. #1

    National Guard May Deploy as Socialists, Unions Wreak Havoc in Wisconsin




    A coalition of socialists, government-union members and other protestors - some of whom were reportedly bussed in from out of state - wreaked havoc in a protest in Madison, Wisconsin, against proposed budget cuts and a bill that would prevent most government employees from collectively demanding ever-increasing salaries and benefits, prompting Gov. Scott Walker to consider bringing out the National Guard.


    National Guard May Deploy as Socialists, Unions Wreak Havoc in Wisconsin


    Alex Newman | The New American
    18 February 2011
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  3. #2
    shock

    Obama joins Wisconsin's budget battle, opposing Republican anti-union bill
    http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...021705494.html
    ----

    Ron Paul Forum's Mission Statement:

    Inspired by US Rep. Ron Paul of Texas, this site is dedicated to facilitating grassroots initiatives that aim to restore a sovereign limited constitutional Republic based on the rule of law, states' rights and individual rights. We seek to enshrine the original intent of our Founders to foster respect for private property, seek justice, provide opportunity, and to secure individual liberty for ourselves and our posterity.

  4. #3
    Yeah really....you mean the same Unions who wrote the HC bill and exempted themselves? Really I don't think we need to even question where Obama stands with Unions. Unions will die, they are standing between us and fiscal sanity, and either we find sanity or we all starve to death. What is happening now is only the beginning, the Unions have abused the taxpayer for far too long. People just need to stop paying taxes, if you like unions and their services...pay them if you don't don't pay them.

    Of course we all know unions do not want ANYONE having a choice on whether or not they want to pay for their services, not the consumer nor the employer. They simply want to get handsomely paid and have been quite comfortable using the government as a club for a long time now...unions started out as thugs, they let the governmetn do their dirty work for them for a time, now they will resume their thuggery.

    I'll be ready, come near me and my belongings and see what happens. I have had it with unions.

  5. #4
    The rabid activists swarming the capitol in Madison were caught vandalizing property, distributing subversive literature, putting fear into innocents, pounding on legislators’ doors and windows, shouting, and furiously banging drums, according to witnesses. Some of the protestors were videotaped carrying signs comparing Governor Walker to Hitler, Mussolini, and deposed Egyptian despot Hosni Mubarak. Other more violent placards featured him with gun crosshairs trained on his face. One sign likened budget cuts to rape. And the mob left behind mountains of trash in its wake.
    [...]
    Claiming that the “economic and political system has failed,” the groups exhorted demonstrators to reject both parties, create “independent” committees of students and workers, nationalize corporations, seize the wealth, and usher in socialism. “The capitalist system has failed and must be replaced with a new type of society based on social need,” the flyer stated, promoting the transformation of businesses into “publicly owned and democratically controlled entities.”
    [...]
    “That beautiful and recently restored building has been trashed. Bands of thugs are roaming the halls, blockading restrooms, stairwells, and elevators,” she said. “They scream and yell, bang drums, and run around with clenched fists, banging on the windows and doors of the locked legislators' offices.”

    She also said students were being used for political purposes and that “thugs” had been bussed in from Illinois. “Keep in mind the majority of these thugs are teachers, who are teaching impressionable children,” she said, noting that Gov. Walker should have called in the National Guard already to prevent the “teachers’ union mobocracy” from overrunning the capitol. “I would also fire every teacher who abandoned their post over this across the state.”

    ==

    Does anyone seriously want these people anywhere near their kids?
    Call out the guard and fire their asses!
    Fire the Dem senators while you're at it!

    I really, really hope this ends badly for Obama. It would be a huge boost for 2012

    -t

  6. #5

  7. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by tangent4ronpaul View Post
    The rabid activists swarming the capitol in Madison were caught vandalizing property, distributing subversive literature, putting fear into innocents, pounding on legislators’ doors and windows, shouting, and furiously banging drums, according to witnesses. Some of the protestors were videotaped carrying signs comparing Governor Walker to Hitler, Mussolini, and deposed Egyptian despot Hosni Mubarak. Other more violent placards featured him with gun crosshairs trained on his face. One sign likened budget cuts to rape. And the mob left behind mountains of trash in its wake.
    [...]
    Claiming that the “economic and political system has failed,” the groups exhorted demonstrators to reject both parties, create “independent” committees of students and workers, nationalize corporations, seize the wealth, and usher in socialism. “The capitalist system has failed and must be replaced with a new type of society based on social need,” the flyer stated, promoting the transformation of businesses into “publicly owned and democratically controlled entities.”
    [...]
    “That beautiful and recently restored building has been trashed. Bands of thugs are roaming the halls, blockading restrooms, stairwells, and elevators,” she said. “They scream and yell, bang drums, and run around with clenched fists, banging on the windows and doors of the locked legislators' offices.”

    She also said students were being used for political purposes and that “thugs” had been bussed in from Illinois. “Keep in mind the majority of these thugs are teachers, who are teaching impressionable children,” she said, noting that Gov. Walker should have called in the National Guard already to prevent the “teachers’ union mobocracy” from overrunning the capitol. “I would also fire every teacher who abandoned their post over this across the state.”

    ==

    Does anyone seriously want these people anywhere near their kids?
    Call out the guard and fire their asses!
    Fire the Dem senators while you're at it!

    I really, really hope this ends badly for Obama. It would be a huge boost for 2012

    -t
    Damn. Call out everyone to repel that.
    "Your mother's dead, before long I'll be dead, and you...and your brother and your sister and all of her children, all of us dead, all of us..rotting in the ground. It's the family name that lives on. It's all that lives on. Not your personal glory, not your honor, but family." - Tywin Lannister


  8. #7
    Do we have any activists in Wisconsin who could get to the capitol and start taking pictures of this?
    "Your mother's dead, before long I'll be dead, and you...and your brother and your sister and all of her children, all of us dead, all of us..rotting in the ground. It's the family name that lives on. It's all that lives on. Not your personal glory, not your honor, but family." - Tywin Lannister


  9. #8
    Drudge Report Articles:


    Wis. governor: GOP won't be 'bullied' by union bill protesters
    http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefi...d-by-protests-

    WALKOUT: Milwaukee Schools closed; High number of absentee teachers...
    http://www.fox6now.com/news/witi-021...,4838415.story

    PAPER: GET BACK TO WORK!
    http://www.jsonline.com/news/opinion/116434554.html
    ----

    Ron Paul Forum's Mission Statement:

    Inspired by US Rep. Ron Paul of Texas, this site is dedicated to facilitating grassroots initiatives that aim to restore a sovereign limited constitutional Republic based on the rule of law, states' rights and individual rights. We seek to enshrine the original intent of our Founders to foster respect for private property, seek justice, provide opportunity, and to secure individual liberty for ourselves and our posterity.



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  11. #9
    The comments are calling these thugs patriots. So I guess the new definition of "patriot" is one who is willing to use the force of government to take from one group to another privileged group.

  12. #10
    Can someone explain to me in simplified form what is really meant by collective bargaining? I know vaguely what it is in theory, but in this sitch we have government workers already working for the largest unions that exist, state and federal government.

    What is it that collective bargaining affords them? If anything it seems that it affords the whatever dream conditions they dream up!
    Would G officials not sit down and talk with them without said collective bargaining?

    I've never joined a union in my life, though I have nothing against the concept of syndicalist workers unions, AS LONG AS they meet the following limitations:


    1. They are completely voluntary and non-coercive.
    2. They do not set legal policy in the state or region in which they function. Private companies that are not union should still have the right to underbid. Follows with voluntary assumption prior.


    I once had the idea that maybe the federal government should start it's own enterprise to raise money for itself and then use its own money for industrial contracts. Unionists can work there.

    There are too many creeping little problems to fight one at a time. What we need is a metaplan or umbrella plan that can be used to obviate every other problem.

    Plans for nullification and strategies for Galt plans should supersede all other issues.
    Besides that, use the "voluntary" card.
    Last edited by reardenstone; 02-18-2011 at 11:48 AM.

  13. #11
    Oh let us not forget they are "public servants".....humble public servants, sacrificing their lives for the common good. It's for the children!

    Man these people are vile scum, if they care at all about the children they would not have stopped teaching the kids. I really hope this unwinds, it's time people saw them for what they really are, leeches and scum who feed off our children and are more the willing to use violence to separate us from the fruits of our labor.

    All they want is your stuff.....nothing but a bunch of dressed up thugs. I would not send my kid to school if these are the people teaching them....I would want to keep my kids as far away from those types of people as I possibly could....it's bad when a system coerces you to fund these people and then makes it financially difficult if not impossible not to send your kids to the schools were these $#@!ers dwell.

    I really hope this unwinds really well. Because this is going to stop, we all know how bad things will get, and that their unrealistic demands can never be met, they will lose this battle...if they reveal themselves for who they really are in the process...great maybe we can rid ourselves of them in the longrun.

  14. #12

  15. #13
    Oh, the irony. The crowd is comparing the governor to Mussolini and Hitler because he's NOT nationalizing (or statizing, since it's just Wisconsin?) everything, and because he's willing to downsize government a bit? Oh, brother.
    Last edited by Mini-Me; 02-18-2011 at 12:05 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by President John F. Kennedy
    And we must face the fact that the United States is neither omnipotent nor omniscient. That we are only 6% of the world's population, and that we cannot impose our will upon the other 94% of mankind. That we cannot right every wrong or reverse each adversity, and that therefore there cannot be an American solution to every world problem.
    I need an education in US history, from the ground up. Can you help point me to a comprehensive, unbiased, scholarly resource?

  16. #14
    Let us not forget the brave and selfless Unionists who proposed forcibly raiding everyone's 401K plans to save their unrealistic and ridiculous retirements.

  17. #15
    Walker should have just laid off 20,000 of them instead he is trying to save their jobs and this is how they react. Ive been a Union Employer for 10 years and I'm sick of it.

  18. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by ssantoro View Post
    Walker should have just laid off 20,000 of them instead he is trying to save their jobs and this is how they react. Ive been a Union Employer for 10 years and I'm sick of it.
    No kidding; I bet there are 20000 others who will GLADLY take the reduced-pay jobs.
    Last edited by Mini-Me; 02-18-2011 at 12:30 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by President John F. Kennedy
    And we must face the fact that the United States is neither omnipotent nor omniscient. That we are only 6% of the world's population, and that we cannot impose our will upon the other 94% of mankind. That we cannot right every wrong or reverse each adversity, and that therefore there cannot be an American solution to every world problem.
    I need an education in US history, from the ground up. Can you help point me to a comprehensive, unbiased, scholarly resource?



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  20. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Cowlesy View Post
    Do we have any activists in Wisconsin who could get to the capitol and start taking pictures of this?
    If I hadn't left last fall, I'd be there taking pictures. I'd also likely be in Dane County Jail at this time for assault or at the very least disorderly conduct. So... probably a good thing I'm not there. I realize this is a no-no on this board but I am ready for a fight. I am ready to get violent. Revolution is never pretty. Live free or DIE!
    "I never had an opinion in politics or religion which I was afraid to own. A costive reserve on these subjects might have procured me more esteem from some people, but less from myself." - Thomas Jefferson

  21. #18
    I don't see anyway for these blind idiots to ever care about the country or the Constitution they are just like locust's or a virus they will just take everything until its gone. Their like brainless zombies.
    Last edited by ssantoro; 02-18-2011 at 12:21 PM.

  22. #19
    These protestors should move to where they would be the happiest. Communist China!!!

  23. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by ssantoro View Post
    Their like brainless zombies.
    They're.

    The protestors are a mixed bag. Some have legit concerns.

  24. #21
    RonPaulCult
    Member

    Quote Originally Posted by reardenstone View Post
    Can someone explain to me in simplified form what is really meant by collective bargaining? I know vaguely what it is in theory, but in this sitch we have government workers already working for the largest unions that exist, state and federal government.

    What is it that collective bargaining affords them? If anything it seems that it affords the whatever dream conditions they dream up!
    Would G officials not sit down and talk with them without said collective bargaining?

    I've never joined a union in my life, though I have nothing against the concept of syndicalist workers unions, AS LONG AS they meet the following limitations:


    1. They are completely voluntary and non-coercive.
    2. They do not set legal policy in the state or region in which they function. Private companies that are not union should still have the right to underbid. Follows with voluntary assumption prior.


    I once had the idea that maybe the federal government should start it's own enterprise to raise money for itself and then use its own money for industrial contracts. Unionists can work there.

    There are too many creeping little problems to fight one at a time. What we need is a metaplan or umbrella plan that can be used to obviate every other problem.

    Plans for nullification and strategies for Galt plans should supersede all other issues.
    Besides that, use the "voluntary" card.
    It means instead of negotiating the terms of employment, wages, and other matters on a one-by-one basis between employee and employer, the employees join together and negotiate as one with the employer.

    In a FREE society, employees are allowed to join a union and demand to negotiate as a union. This is a natural, universal right of freedom of association, which we as liberty lovers are supposed to cherish.

    Also in a FREE society, an employer has the right to refuse to negotiate with a union. The employer can fire them all. The employer can say either come negotiate on your own or take a hike.

    That's why a free society is fair. The employees can stay true to the union, and the employer loses all of its employees, even the ones it doesn't want to lose, or the employee can decide the union isn't for them.

    The protesters in WI are CORRECT and I support them, though few people here are willing to do so because they hate unions too much (I hate them also).

    The reason they are correct is because the bill is not allowing them to negotiate as a union any longer. They have a right to do so. And the government has a right to fire them, if they so choose.

    But the government wants to make it so that the employees can still be MEMBERS of the union, and yet not USE that union to negotiate. The government wants it both ways.

    Rights are being violated in the cheese state - mark my words.
    Last edited by RonPaulCult; 02-18-2011 at 12:27 PM.

  25. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by ssantoro View Post
    These protestors should move to where they would be the happiest. Communist China!!!
    Well, technically China is more state capitalist now. They're a lot closer to fascism than Communism nowadays...but anyway.
    Quote Originally Posted by President John F. Kennedy
    And we must face the fact that the United States is neither omnipotent nor omniscient. That we are only 6% of the world's population, and that we cannot impose our will upon the other 94% of mankind. That we cannot right every wrong or reverse each adversity, and that therefore there cannot be an American solution to every world problem.
    I need an education in US history, from the ground up. Can you help point me to a comprehensive, unbiased, scholarly resource?

  26. #23
    anyone besides me sensing a double standard in the way these protests are being MSM'd, vs. the heckling at CPAC?
    The bigger government gets, the smaller I wish it was.
    My new motto: More Love, Less Laws

  27. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by RonPaulCult View Post
    It means instead of negotiating the terms of employment, wages, and other matters on a one-by-one basis between employee and employer, the employees join together and negotiate as one with the employer.

    In a FREE society, employees are allowed to join a union and demand to negotiate as a union. This is a natural, universal right of freedom of association, which we as liberty lovers are supposed to cherish.

    Also in a FREE society, an employer has the right to refuse to negotiate with a union. The employer can fire them all. The employer can say either come negotiate on your own or take a hike.

    That's why a free society is fair. The employees can stay true to the union, and the employer loses all of its employees, even the ones it doesn't want to lose, or the employee can decide the union isn't for them.

    The protesters in WI are CORRECT and I support them, though few people here are willing to do so because they hate unions too much (I hate them also).

    The reason they are correct is because the bill is not allowing them to negotiate as a union any longer. They have a right to do so. And the government has a right to fire them, if they so choose.

    But the government wants to make it so that the employees can still be MEMBERS of the union, and yet not USE that union to negotiate. The government wants it both ways.

    Rights are being violated in the cheese state - mark my words.
    I guess this is what Josh was referring to by the legitimate concerns? If that's the case, the bill is pretty silly; I mean, all the government needs to do is say "no, thanks" to the union without passing a law. That is, of course, unless existing laws granting unions special privileges prevent them from doing so, but that would just be grounds for finally eliminating all the special privileges and coercive powers that unions currently enjoy.
    Quote Originally Posted by President John F. Kennedy
    And we must face the fact that the United States is neither omnipotent nor omniscient. That we are only 6% of the world's population, and that we cannot impose our will upon the other 94% of mankind. That we cannot right every wrong or reverse each adversity, and that therefore there cannot be an American solution to every world problem.
    I need an education in US history, from the ground up. Can you help point me to a comprehensive, unbiased, scholarly resource?



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  29. #25
    RonPaulCult
    Member

    Quote Originally Posted by ItsTime View Post
    The comments are calling these thugs patriots. So I guess the new definition of "patriot" is one who is willing to use the force of government to take from one group to another privileged group.
    Their rights are being violated, and they are fighting for their rights.

    The government is trying to make it so that they don't have the right to act as a union.

    They DO have that right. And the government has the right to fire them (but won't act on THAT right - they'd rather just legislate away the rights of the workers)

    I support the union in this case, and I think all of us here should support them. We should be there with them.

    We must stand up for the rights of even those we despise the most.

    From the bill:

    Under current law, University of Wisconsin (UW) System employees,
    employees of the UW Hospitals and Clinics Authority, and certain home care and
    child care providers have the right to collectively bargain over wages, hours, and
    conditions of employment. This bill eliminates the rights of these employees to
    collectively bargain
    Maybe we should rename this "Eliminate the rights" of people forums.

  30. #26
    RonPaulCult
    Member

    Quote Originally Posted by Mini-Me View Post
    I guess this is what Josh was referring to by the legitimate concerns? If that's the case, the bill is pretty silly; I mean, all the government needs to do is say "no, thanks" to the union without passing a law. That is, of course, unless existing laws granting unions special privileges prevent them from doing so, but that would just be grounds for finally eliminating all the special privileges and coercive powers that unions currently enjoy.
    The bill is completely silly. As I mentioned in another thread, these Republicans are wimps. Instead of standing up to the unions, and refusing to negotiate with them at all, they are violating the rights of the union workers to ACT as a union, and then still negotiating with them. It's a bully tactic that only a wimpy government would use.

    They should be strong conservatives, the Republicans control the governorship and the congress. Why not just DO AWAY with the government jobs ALL TOGETHER like REAL conservatives would do?

    Here is the bill if anybody wants to read it:

    http://legis.wisconsin.gov/JR1SB-11.pdf

  31. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by RonPaulCult View Post
    Their rights are being violated, and they are fighting for their rights.

    The government is trying to make it so that they don't have the right to act as a union.

    They DO have that right. And the government has the right to fire them (but won't act on THAT right - they'd rather just legislate away the rights of the workers)

    I support the union in this case, and I think all of us here should support them. We should be there with them.

    We must stand up for the rights of even those we despise the most.

    From the bill:



    Maybe we should rename this "Eliminate the rights" of people forums.
    They do not have the right to negotiate taking my rights and property away IN ANY FORM. That is where your whole argument falls apart.

  32. #28
    prompting Gov. Scott Walker to consider bringing out the National Guard
    This issue is going to end up being another one of those "separating the wheat from the chaff" issues.

    As repugnant as the ideas these people are protesting in favor of, is anybody here really going to support the idea of armed state enforcers marching in and shooting people for exercising their right to peaceably assemble and protest government for redress of grievances?

  33. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by RonPaulCult View Post
    Their rights are being violated, and they are fighting for their rights.

    The government is trying to make it so that they don't have the right to act as a union.

    They DO have that right. And the government has the right to fire them (but won't act on THAT right - they'd rather just legislate away the rights of the workers)

    I support the union in this case, and I think all of us here should support them. We should be there with them.

    We must stand up for the rights of even those we despise the most.

    From the bill:



    Maybe we should rename this "Eliminate the rights" of people forums.
    these are State jobs right...not private sector.....does the law stop private sector unions?
    "Liberty lies in the hearts of men and women; when it dies there, no constitution, no law, no court can save it; no constitution, no law, no court can even do much to help it."
    James Madison

    "It does not take a majority to prevail ... but rather an irate, tireless minority, keen on setting brushfires of freedom in the minds of men." - Samuel Adams



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    Tu ne cede malis sed contra audentior ito

  34. #30
    RonPaulCult
    Member

    Quote Originally Posted by ItsTime View Post
    They do not have the right to negotiate taking my rights and property away IN ANY FORM. That is where your whole argument falls apart.
    Only the government steals from you. These workers are not THE government, they just work FOR the government. That they are paid with stolen money doesn't mean they don't have the right to negotiate their wage, as non-slaves and like everybody else. That's where your argument falls apart, although I respect your viewpoint very much.

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