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Thread: Why you should vote Republican this election:

  1. #91
    Quote Originally Posted by Matt Collins View Post
    I do. He is pushing for gun control.
    Exactly, see, you don't have a $#@!ing clue what Trump is doing.

    He is filling the supreme court with people who are stronger on the 2nd amendment than anybody currently on the court. He can say he is going to do whatever he wants for political advantage, but he is ultimately protecting our gun rights in the longterm. Worst case scenario, bump stocks are illegal for a short time until a court makes the correction.

    He's already getting beaten by the left and the media from 100 different directions, last thing he needs is people throwing buckets of blood on right wing politicians and $#@! while he is trying to get other things done.
    Last edited by dannno; 10-15-2018 at 05:58 PM.
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  3. #92
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    How do you think it works?
    People decide to run and then we get to choose between them, the only exception is if we are able to run ourselves.
    Your description is apt for a high school council, but not for the state or federal level.

    Political parties are businesses and candidates are their products. If customers' preferences change, then businesses will either change their products or they will be outmaneuvered by new entrants who better meet demand.


    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Will you be running for office any time soon?
    No; I'm not corrupt, and therefore politics is unprofitable for me.



    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    In the first place you will never have everyone stop voting and in the second the bone breakers would declare some kind of emergency and take power anyway.
    1) Way to contradict yourself within your own post.

    2) Why even vote then?
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Pinochet is the model
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Liberty preserving authoritarianism.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Enforced internal open borders was one of the worst elements of the Constitution.

  4. #93
    Quote Originally Posted by Matt Collins View Post
    Yes, and he is awful on the 4th Amendment.
    Yawn.

  5. #94
    Quote Originally Posted by TheCount View Post
    Your description is apt for a high school council, but not for the state or federal level.

    Political parties are businesses and candidates are their products. If customers' preferences change, then businesses will either change their products or they will be outmaneuvered by new entrants who better meet demand.
    LOL, they will only shift the kind of candidates that they run based on which ones win, if leftists win they will keep offering people who are ever farther to the left.




    Quote Originally Posted by TheCount View Post
    No; I'm not corrupt, and therefore politics is unprofitable for me.
    LOL





    Quote Originally Posted by TheCount View Post
    1) Way to contradict yourself within your own post.
    It's not a contradiction, I simply stated what would happen IF the impossibility actually took place.

    Quote Originally Posted by TheCount View Post
    2) Why even vote then?
    Because voting denies them the "legitimacy" that they would have if they did impose themselves on us in the event that nobody voted and voting allows us to choose the best available option to move things as far in our direction as we can.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  6. #95
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    That's not how it works, we get to vote for the people who run, we don't decide who runs.
    Is that the cause of the bad political outcomes (e.g. ever increasing federal spending)?

  7. #96
    Quote Originally Posted by r3volution 3.0 View Post
    Is that the cause of the bad political outcomes (e.g. ever increasing federal spending)?
    It may be involved but it isn't any different than not getting to choose who is born to the last king.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment



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  9. #97
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    It may be involved
    How would you correct this problem (of "us" not being able to choose the candidates)?

    Or, if that actually isn't a problem (you seemed to be saying it is, but now maybe not), what is the problem?

  10. #98
    Quote Originally Posted by r3volution 3.0 View Post
    How would you correct this problem (of "us" not being able to choose the candidates)?

    Or, if that actually isn't a problem (you seemed to be saying it is, but now maybe not), what is the problem?
    Life is the problem and therefore there is nothing you can do about it, the only thing that would make it better would be a more equal distribution of money and power but we all know what happens if you try to force that.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  11. #99
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Life is the problem and therefore there is nothing you can do about it
    That's certainly not true, though I'm not going to explain why (again), as I'd like to hear your proposed solution, if you have one.

    It seemed to me that you were blaming the "deep state" or some such thing for the bad political outcomes.

    As in, "if only we could choose the candidates, and get the deep state out of it, we'd have better outcomes," or something along those lines.

    Maybe not

    You're a fatalist now?

    the only thing that would make it better would be a more equal distribution of money and power but we all know what happens if you try to force that.
    Communism would make it better...?

  12. #100
    Quote Originally Posted by r3volution 3.0 View Post
    That's certainly not true, though I'm not going to explain why (again), as I'd like to hear your proposed solution, if you have one.

    It seemed to me that you were blaming the "deep state" or some such thing for the bad political outcomes.

    As in, "if only we could choose the candidates, and get the deep state out of it, we'd have better outcomes," or something along those lines.

    Maybe not

    You're a fatalist now?
    I am a fatalist to a certain extent that is why I reject pie in the sky fantasies that claim they will make a perfect world but I am an optimist to the extent that I believe we can make things better by choosing the best available option and by reforming the system in the ways I have proposed elsewhere.



    Quote Originally Posted by r3volution 3.0 View Post
    Communism would make it better...?
    No it wouldn't, that is why I said this:
    but we all know what happens if you try to force that.
    If somehow money and power were more equally divided naturally that would make things better because more people could run for office against the "anointed" candidates.

    True free markets would result in a more equal distribution of money and power but only to a degree.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  13. #101
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    If somehow money and power were more equally divided naturally that would make things better because more people could run for office against the "anointed" candidates.
    This is what I was referencing.

    How do you think candidates come to be "anointed" and what, if anything, do you think could be done to change this?

    What would a better, alternative arrangement be?

    As to what is to be done, feel free to propose any reform you like, even if you think it's impossible to implement in practice.

  14. #102
    Quote Originally Posted by r3volution 3.0 View Post
    This is what I was referencing.

    How do you think candidates come to be "anointed" and what, if anything, do you think could be done to change this?
    Those with far more money and power than most people pick them based on their own interests, you can't change it, you can compete with it if you have enough money and power to run yourself or back someone you choose.

    Quote Originally Posted by r3volution 3.0 View Post
    What would a better, alternative arrangement be?

    As to what is to be done, feel free to propose any reform you like, even if you think it's impossible to implement in practice.
    Realistically the only better arrangement would be truly free markets that would create many more people with the power and wealth to run or back someone.
    Unrealistically things would be best if everyone was born with the same amount of money and power and had all the same opportunities so that everyone would be equally capable of running for office or supporting someone's run but that is impossible and any attempts to make it happen would result in a total loss of liberty and the destruction of the economy.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  15. #103

    Thumbs down

    Quote Originally Posted by dannno View Post
    he is ultimately protecting our gun rights
    Yes, like GWB abandoning free market principles to save the free market?


    Violating the 2nd Amendment is not protecting our gun rights. And nominating SCOTUS justices that actively abridge our rights doesn't help either.


    You are confused.
    __________________________________________________ ________________
    "A politician will do almost anything to keep their job, even become a patriot" - Hearst

  16. #104
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Those with far more money and power than most people pick them based on their own interests, you can't change it, you can compete with it if you have enough money and power to run yourself or back someone you choose.
    That's right.

    Realistically the only better arrangement would be truly free markets that would create many more people with the power and wealth to run or back someone.
    Unrealistically things would be best if everyone was born with the same amount of money and power and had all the same opportunities so that everyone would be equally capable of running for office or supporting someone's run but that is impossible and any attempts to make it happen would result in a total loss of liberty and the destruction of the economy.
    Laissez faire would obviously not result in anything resembling an equal distribution of wealth (nor should it).

    It may or may not even narrow the gap; that depends entirely on the specific market conditions.

    Anyway, I'm not seeing any proposal to improve things (I guess this is the fatalism).

    Well, good luck with that system.

    At least you get to vote as hard as you want.



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  18. #105
    Quote Originally Posted by r3volution 3.0 View Post

    Laissez faire would obviously not result in anything resembling an equal distribution of wealth (nor should it).

    It may or may not even narrow the gap; that depends entirely on the specific market conditions.
    It would narrow the gap, crony capitalism and government intervention is responsible for the extreme distortion that has existed throughout most of history and those societies that had the freest markets have had the smallest gaps.

    Quote Originally Posted by r3volution 3.0 View Post
    Anyway, I'm not seeing any proposal to improve things (I guess this is the fatalism).
    I have made other proposals in other threads that would help but the problem can't be eliminated entirely in any system.


    Quote Originally Posted by r3volution 3.0 View Post
    Well, good luck with that system.

    At least you get to vote as hard as you want.
    I'll have better luck than the birth lottery will provide in a monarchy.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  19. #106
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    It would narrow the gap, crony capitalism and government intervention is responsible for the extreme distortion that has existed throughout most of history and those societies that had the freest markets have had the smallest gaps.
    That may be the case, but it isn't necessarily so.

    The state's economic interventions necessarily redistribute wealth, they don't necessarily cause greater concentrations of wealth.

    That depends entirely on the type of intervention and random market factors.

    Anyway, a minor reduction in wealth inequality (or even total equality of wealth) wouldn't solve your problem.

    I have made other proposals in other threads that would help but the problem can't be eliminated entirely in any system.
    Such as?

  20. #107
    Quote Originally Posted by r3volution 3.0 View Post
    That may be the case, but it isn't necessarily so.

    The state's economic interventions necessarily redistribute wealth, they don't necessarily cause greater concentrations of wealth.

    That depends entirely on the type of intervention and random market factors.

    Anyway, a minor reduction in wealth inequality (or even total equality of wealth) wouldn't solve your problem.



    Such as?
    Here is one:
    Why not give each Rep. multiple votes?

    Another is prohibiting those who receive government money from voting

    There are others I have posted as well elsewhere.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  21. #108
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    As I said at the time:

    Quote Originally Posted by r3volution 3.0 View Post
    Color me skeptical.

    By the way, I'm sure you know that this (nation-wide proportional voting) is more or less how it works in most of the rest of the world.

    In Europe, for instance, there is an amusing number of minority parties with one or two seats in parliament.

    Does that system seem to be yielding significantly different results?

    People complain (understandably) about the winner-take-all nature of our system, but the coalition building process that the rest of the world employs ends up with the same thing, more or less (you get to be part of the government, if only you abandon all principle and compromise with your enemies, in some milquetoast middle).
    ...

    Another is prohibiting those who receive government money from voting
    ...which would be as effective as a constitutional prohibition on welfare.

  22. #109
    Quote Originally Posted by r3volution 3.0 View Post
    As I said at the time:



    ...
    I replied at the time so I won't here.



    Quote Originally Posted by r3volution 3.0 View Post
    ...which would be as effective as a constitutional prohibition on welfare.
    Not really but I'm not going to have that argument again in this thread either.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  23. #110
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    I replied at the time so I won't here.
    Your reply was that the Europeans have "political revolutions" more often (i.e. more changes in which parties dominate).

    I then asked (rhetorically) if these were usually/ever pro-liberty revolutions.

    You acknowledged that they were not.

    Not really but I'm not going to have that argument again in this thread either.
    That's fine.

  24. #111
    Quote Originally Posted by r3volution 3.0 View Post
    Your reply was that the Europeans have "political revolutions" more often (i.e. more changes in which parties dominate).

    I then asked (rhetorically) if these were usually/ever pro-liberty revolutions.

    You acknowledged that they were not.
    But I pointed out that that was because Europeans don't have a political culture that is even as liberty oriented as ours.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  25. #112
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    But I pointed out that that was because Europeans don't have a political culture that is even as liberty oriented as ours.
    So you did.

    One final issue: Why do you think that wealth equality would improve political outcomes?

    (ignoring problems associated with how wealth could come to be equally distributed; suppose it happens by magic)



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  27. #113
    Quote Originally Posted by r3volution 3.0 View Post
    So you did.

    One final issue: Why do you think that wealth equality would improve political outcomes?

    (ignoring problems associated with how wealth could come to be equally distributed; suppose it happens by magic)
    Because more people could run for office and the voters would have more choices, they would then be able to choose the better options over the "anointed" options.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  28. #114
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Because more people could run for office and the voters would have more choices
    Everyone can already run for office (within age requirements etc).

    they would then be able to choose the better options over the "anointed" options.
    I'll come back to that after we figure out who's running.

  29. #115
    Quote Originally Posted by r3volution 3.0 View Post
    Everyone can already run for office (within age requirements etc).
    Theoretically, but you need enough money to pull it off or the right connections to people with enough money.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  30. #116
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Theoretically, but you need enough money to pull it off or the right connections to people with enough money.
    Certainly, but what's the difference between $1,000 from 1000 donors or $10 from 100,000 donors?

  31. #117
    Quote Originally Posted by r3volution 3.0 View Post
    Certainly, but what's the difference between $1,000 from 1000 donors or $10 from 100,000 donors?
    None, but you need the money to fund-raise in the first place, if nobody has heard of you then nobody will donate.

    You also need much more money than that for higher offices that make more of a difference.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  32. #118
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    None, but you need the money to fund-raise in the first place, if nobody has heard of you then nobody will donate.
    Why would voters be more likely to have heard of the "good guys" in an equal wealth situation?

  33. #119
    Quote Originally Posted by r3volution 3.0 View Post
    Why would voters be more likely to have heard of the "good guys" in an equal wealth situation?
    Because they would have the money for the initial public outreach.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  34. #120
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Because they would have the money for the initial public outreach.
    That each political actor has equal wealth doesn't mean that each candidate has equal funding.

    The guy speaking unpopular views will still attract less money, no?



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