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Thread: Psychiatry and liberty

  1. #1

    Psychiatry and liberty

    What is everyone's opinion with respect to psychiatry? Does anyone believe meds are actually helpful? Or is the default position here that psychiatry was spearheaded by globalists for experimentation and social control, and doctors today are just following BS protocols from above and don't know any better?
    Last edited by kona; 05-01-2018 at 09:00 PM.



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  3. #2
    Like everything else it has been hijacked and perverted, not being a hard science it has been perverted to an extreme, it is now a danger to liberty and society in general.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  4. #3
    Quackery. Worse than chiropractic.
    Quote Originally Posted by Torchbearer
    what works can never be discussed online. there is only one language the government understands, and until the people start speaking it by the magazine full... things will remain the same.
    Hear/buy my music here "government is the enemy of liberty"-RP Support me on Patreon here Ephesians 6:12

  5. #4
    They diagnose people and then prescribe mind altering medication to treat a problem that the person could fix themselves if they only chose to deal with their problem. Instead the mind altering drugs change the chemistry in the brain. The brain stops producing chemicals because the brain recognizes an abundance of those chemicals. Thus a person cannot stop taking the medications without major withdrawal symptoms. People that get on those medications at first feel so much better. A few months later they slip back into the same problems they never dealt with. The answer is to up the medication to a higher dose and or add other medications. Before a person knows it they are on a cocktail of many psych drugs that they can never get off of.

  6. #5

    Big Pharma Psychiatry

    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    You only show up to attack Trump when he is wrong
    Make America the Land of the Free & the Home of the Brave again

  7. #6
    These meds have been helpful to those globalist who want to control all of us.
    “The spirits of darkness are now among us. We have to be on guard so that we may realize what is happening when we encounter them and gain a real idea of where they are to be found. The most dangerous thing you can do in the immediate future will be to give yourself up unconsciously to the influences which are definitely present.” ~ Rudolf Steiner

  8. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by heavenlyboy34 View Post
    Quackery. Worse than chiropractic.
    Some chiropractors are great!
    “The spirits of darkness are now among us. We have to be on guard so that we may realize what is happening when we encounter them and gain a real idea of where they are to be found. The most dangerous thing you can do in the immediate future will be to give yourself up unconsciously to the influences which are definitely present.” ~ Rudolf Steiner

  9. #8
    The people here that would probably benefit from psychiatric help are, not coincidentally, the same people screeching that it's some complicated evil plot that only they can see.



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  11. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by angelatc View Post
    The people here that would probably benefit from psychiatric help are, not coincidentally, the same people screeching that it's some complicated evil plot that only they can see.
    Well if your rectum nerve wasn't attached to your optic nerve, I believe you would be able to see the handwriting on the wall. So let me point some things out for you.

    When you look at the school shootings and see that most of the shooters were on psychotropic drugs and then the agenda is to always go after our second amendment. That's part of the control grid to disarm law abiding citizens guns.

    They are putting very small children on psychotropic drugs, saying they have ADHD. They have been doing this for 30 years. A good portion of those children are now adults. Some of the studies I have read say that psychotropic drugs can cause flashbacks breaks in the mind later in life.

    They are prescribing them to the elderly to keep them quiet/docile or to sleep.

    The VA is prescribing them to our veterans for PTSD like candy. The other thing is, if a veteran is diagnosed with PTSD the VA can strip them of their second amendment right.

    The thing is that you cannot just stop talking these drugs, cold turkey, because they will cause psychotic episodes. Take a look around you, things are getting crazy out there, and I can assure you these people had help getting there.

    Ref:
    https://www.cchrint.org/2018/02/20/s...investigation/
    http://www.chicagotribune.com/g00/li...a=1&i10c.dv=14
    http://www.breitbart.com/big-governm...ment-for-ptsd/
    https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle...sd-goes-wrong/
    http://wesa.fm/post/long-term-effect...stery#stream/0
    “The spirits of darkness are now among us. We have to be on guard so that we may realize what is happening when we encounter them and gain a real idea of where they are to be found. The most dangerous thing you can do in the immediate future will be to give yourself up unconsciously to the influences which are definitely present.” ~ Rudolf Steiner

  12. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by heavenlyboy34 View Post
    Quackery. Worse than chiropractic.
    Sure you aren't thinking about psychology?

  13. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by angelatc View Post
    The people here that would probably benefit from psychiatric help are, not coincidentally, the same people screeching that it's some complicated evil plot that only they can see.

    10 of the Worst Political Abuses of U.S. Psychiatry and Psychology

    http://brucelevine.net/10-of-the-wor...can-history-2/

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2800147/
    This one goes into everyone else,,but not the US.

    Not new,, NOT a Theory. and it is widespread and deeply ingrained.
    Liberty is lost through complacency and a subservient mindset. When we accept or even welcome automobile checkpoints, random searches, mandatory identification cards, and paramilitary police in our streets, we have lost a vital part of our American heritage. America was born of protest, revolution, and mistrust of government. Subservient societies neither maintain nor deserve freedom for long.
    Ron Paul 2004

    Registered Ron Paul supporter # 2202
    It's all about Freedom

  14. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by angelatc View Post
    The people here that would probably benefit from psychiatric help are, not coincidentally, the same people screeching that it's some complicated evil plot that only they can see.
    or just have not turned away at the sight of the Truth.

    Liberty is lost through complacency and a subservient mindset. When we accept or even welcome automobile checkpoints, random searches, mandatory identification cards, and paramilitary police in our streets, we have lost a vital part of our American heritage. America was born of protest, revolution, and mistrust of government. Subservient societies neither maintain nor deserve freedom for long.
    Ron Paul 2004

    Registered Ron Paul supporter # 2202
    It's all about Freedom

  15. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by heavenlyboy34 View Post
    Quackery. Worse than chiropractic.
    I have had a Chiropractor benefit me. Adjusted my neck and back.. Can't speak for bad ones,,but have known a good one..
    Much like Doctors or mechanics.. There are good and bad.

    Manipulating people through mind control is the worst form of Rape. It is the most serious invasion of privacy.

    These people literally Rape the Mind.
    and with no oversight or consequences.
    Liberty is lost through complacency and a subservient mindset. When we accept or even welcome automobile checkpoints, random searches, mandatory identification cards, and paramilitary police in our streets, we have lost a vital part of our American heritage. America was born of protest, revolution, and mistrust of government. Subservient societies neither maintain nor deserve freedom for long.
    Ron Paul 2004

    Registered Ron Paul supporter # 2202
    It's all about Freedom

  16. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by specsaregood View Post
    Sure you aren't thinking about psychology?
    Nah, Psych is legit.
    Per Phlip Hickey, M.D. of Behavioral Science:
    http://behaviorismandmentalhealth.co...valid-science/
    Psychiatry Is Not Based On Valid Science

    n December 23, I wrote a post called DSM-5 – Dimensional Diagnoses – More Conflicts of Interest? In the article I sketched out the role of David Kupfer, MD, in promoting the concept of dimensional assessment in DSM-5, and I speculated that at least part of his motivation in this regard might have stemmed from the fact that he is a major shareholder in a company that is developing a computerized assessment instrument. I ended the piece with a general criticism of psychiatry: “There is only one agenda item in modern American psychiatry: the relentless expansion of psychiatric turf and drug sales. They’ve promoted categorical diagnoses and chemical imbalances strenuously for the past five decades. Now that these spurious notions are on the point of expiration, psychiatry is developing dimensional diagnoses and neurocircuitry malfunctions as the rallying points of the ‘new and improved’ psychiatry.

    But the bottom line is always the same: turf and money. Something is truly rotten in the state of psychiatry.”
    The article precipitated a fairly lengthy debate in the comments section. The discussion was wide ranging, and some of the issues addressed were fundamental to the entire psychiatric debate, in particular: whether or not psychiatry is based on valid science.

    My own position is that the foundations of psychiatry are spurious, and the purpose of this post is to set out my position on this matter.
    PSYCHIATRY’S USE OF THE TERM “ILLNESS”

    Psychiatry’s most fundamental tenet is that virtually all significant problems of thinking, feeling, and/or behaving are illnesses that need to be studied and treated from a medical perspective. What’s not usually acknowledged, however, is that this is an arbitrary assumption.
    In common speech and within the medical profession, the word “illness” indicates the presence of organic pathology: i.e. damage or malfunction in an organ. Historically, mental illnesses came into being, not because some scientist or group of scientists had recognized and established that problems of thinking, feeling, and/or behaving are caused by an organic malfunction, but rather because the APA had simply decided to extend the concept of illness to embrace these kinds of problems. For the record, some problems of thinking, feeling, and/or behaving are known to be caused by organic pathology, and I exclude those from the present discussion.

    It is not superficially obvious that other problems of thinking, feeling, and/or behaving are actually illnesses, and there is a strong burden of proof on those who adopt this position. Psychiatry, however, has never proved this assertion, but nevertheless continues to expand its diagnostic net in the same way that it started – by fiat. A particular pattern of thinking, feeling and/or behaving becomes a mental illness/disorder because the APA says so!

    Obviously I can’t dictate to psychiatrists how they should and should not use words. If they choose to call problems of this sort illnesses, then that’s their business. But they should also acknowledge that they are using the word illness in a distorted and misleading sense of the term.

    They are also deviating from the ordinary standards and procedures of medical science. In the 1930’s, a German pathologist named Friederich Wegener discovered a “new” disease, which is now called Wegener’s Granulomatosis. He discovered this disease the old-fashioned way – by years of diligent post-mortem examinations and hundreds (thousands?) of microscope hours. The history of medical progress is the history of these kinds of discoveries.

    By contrast, psychiatry produces their “diagnoses,” (e.g. ADHD, disruptive mood dysregulation disorder, conduct disorder, etc., etc.), simply by voting. They cling to the unacknowledged extended use of the term illness in these kinds of deliberations and decisions, whilst maintaining the pretense in their practices and promotional literature that the word is being used in its classical sense of organic pathology.

    The reason that several psychoactive drugs have become blockbusters in recent years is that psychiatry has the advantage, unique in the medical field, that it can invent illnesses, and relax the criteria for these illnesses, more or less at will. Psychiatry, unlike other medical specialties, has no natural limits to its growth potential. They can continue to expand the diagnostic net until everybody in the world has a diagnosis. But it doesn’t even have to stop there. They can go for everybody having two, three, four, etc., diagnoses. If organized psychiatry votes an illness into being, there is no reality that can act as a brake or a check on this activity.

    PSYCHIATRY AND SCIENCE

    Despite this confusion in terminology, psychiatry routinely contends that its diagnoses are based on science. In the Introduction to DSM-IV, the APA wrote:

    “More than any other nomenclature of mental disorders, DSM-IV is grounded in empirical evidence.” (p xvi)

    And, of course, an enormous number of studies had been done. But, to the best of my knowledge, there wasn’t a single study on any “diagnosis” that addressed the fundamental question: is there any logical reason why this particular problem of thinking, feeling, and/or behaving should be conceptualized as an illness? This, in every case, was simply assumed, despite the fact that there are better, more productive, more parsimonious, and more logically sound ways to conceptualize these problems.

    As a companion to DSM-IV, the APA published a five-volume sourcebook of references. There were prevalence studies, correlation studies, data re-analyses, field trials, etc… All of which was wonderful. But on the fundamental question: is there any rational reason for conceptualizing these conditions as illnesses? – there was nothing. Which was not surprising, because there had been nothing along those lines in the earlier manuals.

    THE CHANGE FROM DSM-I TO DSM-II

    And speaking of the earlier manuals, it needs to be noted that a major shift in underlying theory occurred between DSM-I and DSM-II. In DSM-I, most of the diagnostic terms contained the word “reaction” (e.g. schizophrenic reaction), the implication being that the problem in question was to be conceptualized as a reaction to something. In DSM-II, the word reaction was dropped. In the Foreword to DSM-II the drafting committee stated that the purpose of this change was to avoid terms that implied any particular causal theory. This notion was repeated in the Introduction to DSM-III-R:

    “The use of the term reaction throughout the classification [in DSM-I] reflected the influence of Adolf Meyer’s psychobiologic view that mental disorders represented reactions of the personality to psychological, social, and biological factors.” (Adolf Meyer was an eminent Swiss-American psychiatrist, 1866-1950)

    And
    “The DSM-II classification did not use the term reaction, and except for the use of the term neuroses, used the diagnostic terms that, by and large, did not imply a particular theoretical framework for understanding the nonorganic mental disorders.” (p xviii)
    All of this sounds fairly reasonable, but ignores the fact that the omission of the term “reaction” inevitably conveys the impression that the categories listed are to be conceptualized as primary illness entities. Despite their proffered justification for the claim, it is more plausible that the term was dropped in a deliberate attempt to oust Adolf Meyer’s notion of mental disorders as reactions to biopsychosocial stressors, especially his reformulation of schizophrenia as a cluster of maladaptive habits acquired in response to such stressors. It is also plausible that it was an attempt to return psychiatry to a Kraepelinian nosology of biologically-specifiable illnesses. In any event, that is exactly what has happened.

    PSYCHIATRY’S “NOSOLOGY”

    Many eminent psychiatrists today refer to the DSM as a psychiatric nosology. These include:



    The word nosology (from the Greek word nosos, meaning disease) means classification of illnesses, and by using this term in this context, psychiatrists are implying, without valid reason, that all significant problems of thinking, feeling, and/or behaving are illnesses, even though there is no evidence that this is a valid or helpful stance. In fact, as we’ve seen above, an alternative perspective (Adolf Meyer’s “reactions”) actually constituted psychiatric orthodoxy from 1952 to 1968. What is also clear and noteworthy in this matter is that Adolf Meyer’s theoretical/explanatory concepts were not abandoned on the grounds that they had been scientifically discredited or disproven. They were abandoned as part of an arbitrary decision by the DSM-II committee to medicalize problems of thinking, feeling, and/or behaving.

    DSM-II’s decision to drop the word “reaction” was not, as claimed, a move to an atheoretical classification. Rather, it replaced a genuinely biopsychosocial causal framework with one that was purely biological: i.e. that all problems of thinking, feeling, and/or behaving are by definition primary disease entities. Under the present DSM system, psychiatry doesn’t have to prove that a problem is an illness, because that assertion is built into their definitions. If the DSM is a nosology, then every item listed must be an illness. This is not science. It is intellectual chicanery.

    Having demonstrated that they could do this without much opposition in DSM-II, the APA solidified the arrangement in DSM-III, and expanded it to the point of travesty in DSM-IV and 5. In fact, in DSM-5, the disease notion is injected even more explicitly and more clearly than in the earlier manuals. In the Introduction chapter, following a discussion on the value of dimensional assessment, the APA states:

    “These findings mean that DSM, like other medical disease-classifications, should accommodate ways to introduce dimensional approaches…” (p 5) [emphasis added]
    EXPLANATORY VALUE OF PSYCHIATRIC DIAGNOSES
    The notion that all problems of thinking, feeling, and/or behaving are illnesses has no explanatory value. Consider the following conversation.

    Client’s daughter: “Why is my mother so depressed?”
    Psychiatrist: “Because she has an illness called major depression.”
    Client’s daughter: “How do you know she has this illness?
    Psychiatrist: “Because she is so depressed.”

    The only evidence for the illness is the very behavior it purports to explain. Unlike diagnoses in real medicine, there is no actual illness behind the DSM symptom lists to provide genuine explanatory value. Those of us on this side of the debate have been pointing out this kind of circular reasoning for decades, but I have never seen or heard a convincing response from psychiatry. Instead, they continue to promote their “diagnoses” to their clients, the media, and the general public as if they had explanatory value – when in fact they have none.

    Psychiatry sometimes counters this particular criticism by denying that they ever promoted mental illnesses as causes or explanations of the symptoms. But in fact, causative language permeates DSM-III, IV, and 5. In almost every section of DSM-5, one can find exclusion clauses like: “The disturbance is not better explained by another mental disorder,” the clear implication being that mental disorders are being presented as explanations of the problems listed in the criteria sets. Additionally, the notion of a disorder/illness as the cause of its symptoms is standard in general medicine. For instance, the illness pneumonia causes the symptoms of coughing, weakness, etc.,. By using this kind of language in DSM, the APA is promoting the notion that their putative illnesses are indeed the causes of the symptoms. For instance, the behavior of running around the classroom and failing to pay attention to the teacher is routinely presented by psychiatry as being caused by the “illness” ADHD, and this is precisely how the notion of “mental illness” is perceived by clients, the media, and the general public. If it is not psychiatry’s intention to create this impression, then they need to make a concerted effort to correct the misunderstanding. I am not aware of any moves in this direction by the APA or by psychiatric opinion leaders.

    THE IMPORTANCE OF VALID THEORIES

    Organized psychiatry tends to dismiss this entire issue of the ontological status of the “mental illnesses” as academic or philosophical, and as having no real bearing on practice. But imagine how different psychiatry would be today if it had retained Adolf Meyer’s formulations. Research would probably not have been hijacked by pharma, and would be focused on social and environmental factors rather than on drug responses. Psychiatrists would take detailed histories in an attempt to understand their clients, rather than gathering just enough information to clinch the “diagnosis.” There would be no fifteen-minute med checks, and social skills training would be the dominant treatment modality.

    Causal theories are not ivory tower abstractions. In any systematic human activity, they are the pillars that support and drive practice. And when they are spurious, as in the case of psychiatry, practices and procedures inevitably drift into error. The legitimacy of a profession depends on the validity and adequacy of its underlying causal theories. Indeed, the theories are the formal expression of the knowledge accumulated by the science at a given point in time. This applies particularly to those concepts that are very basic and fundamental. A shipping industry, for instance, that was working on the assumption that the Earth is flat, other things being equal, would probably not be noted for excellence of service. Similarly, a geo-centered astronomy would be a shaky foundation for the development of space travel. Human endeavors that are based on valid theories are more likely to yield success than those based on invalid theories.

    To guard against misunderstanding, I’m not saying that good theories are sufficient. One also needs techniques, tools, skills, etc… But working without valid theories, or worse, working with invalid theories, inevitably leads practitioners astray. Which is exactly what has happened in the case of psychiatry. By assuming that all significant problems of thinking, feeling, and/or behaving are illnesses, they have, very naturally, been drawn into seeing these problems as entities that they (the physicians) have to fix by means of medical-type techniques, and seeing the owners of the problems as “patients” – i.e. people who have to be fixed. The illness theory also, because it conveys the false impression that the matter has been explained, has a dampening effect on practitioners’ curiosity as to genuine explanations.

    Modern psychiatry has been plugging away at its so-called nosology for more than a hundred years, and the APA, in their successive revisions of the DSM, assure us that the classifications are scientific. Thought leaders and individual psychiatrists, with few exceptions, assure us that the “illnesses” listed in the manuals are scientifically established, ontologically valid entities that provide the framework for understanding and ameliorating problems of thinking, feeling, and/or behaving. But seldom is it acknowledged that this stance is nothing more than an assumption, the purpose of which was to establish psychiatric turf in a non-medical field.

    “PSYCHIATRY IS VALID BECAUSE ITS TREATMENTS WORK”
    It is sometimes argued that psychiatry derives validity and legitimacy from the fact that its treatments (i.e. drugs) work. In rebuttal, many writers on this side of the debate have pointed out that small quantities of alcohol help a person overcome shyness, but that nobody would conclude from this either that shyness is an illness, or that alcohol is a medicine. Drugs, whether they’re of the street, liquor store, or pharmaceutical variety, alter people’s thoughts, feelings, and/or behaviors. In some cases, the users of these products and their families express themselves pleased with the alteration.

    I have known a good many marijuana users who maintained, with, I think, good credibility, that pot helped them control their anger – made them mellow. Over the years I have worked with several women who always kept a twelve-pack of beer in the refrigerator in case their husbands became angry or upset. In these cases, the pot and the alcohol “worked” in the sense that they forestalled the anger and rage. And psychopharmaceutical products sometimes “work” in this same pragmatic use of the term. But there is no evidence that any psychopharmaceutical product fixes or alleviates any pathological process. Indeed, what seems to be the case is that these drugs “work” by producing abnormal neurological states. From a pragmatic point of view the abnormal state may seem better to the client, and/or his family, and/or the authorities. But this does not establish that the original condition was an illness or that the drug is a medicine.

    CLARIFICATION

    Obviously the problems listed in the DSM are real. That’s not the issue. What’s being challenged here is the contention that the clusters of problems set out in the manual can be validly conceptualized as symptoms of medical disease entities. It is my position that such a conceptualization does violence to the subject matter, and has led psychiatry seriously astray.
    For instance, at the present time there is a great deal of concern in professional and official circles about the rapidly increasing use of neuroleptic drugs to “treat” childhood temper tantrums and aggression. What’s not usually acknowledged, however, is that these practices are a direct consequence of the spurious notion that all problems of thinking, feeling, and/or behaving are illnesses that warrant medical intervention. In the “old days” parents who brought a child to a physician for temper tantrums or aggression would have been told that this, in the absence of some very obvious and compelling indications to the contrary, was not a medical problem. Today it is a medical problem, not because there has been some breakthrough medical discovery, but simply because the APA says so, and because psychiatrists prescribe neurotoxic drugs that act as chemical strait-jackets and dampen the problem behavior. Contrary to the congratulatory self-talk of Dr. Lieberman and his like-minded “opinion leaders,” this is not medical progress.

    A SECOND CLARIFICATION

    Again, to guard against misunderstanding, let me state very clearly that if psychiatry could produce convincing evidence that the myriad problems of thinking, feeling, and/or behaving listed in the DSM are in fact caused by specific illnesses/diseases of the brain or other organs, then my objections are moot. And if that day comes, as I’ve said many times, I will fold my tent, apologize to all concerned, and end my days writing poetry, growing vegetables, and playing with my grandchildren. In the meantime, I will continue to state as vigorously and as frequently as I can, that psychiatry’s most fundamental tenet is nothing more than a self-serving assumption which despite decades of highly motivated research, numerous premature, yet confidently asserted, eurekas, and virtually endless promises that the definitive evidence is just around the proverbial corner, remains nothing more than a false and destructive assumption.



    Related posts:

    1. Psychiatry Is Not Based On Science
    2. Psychiatry – The Sham Science
    3. Psychiatry: The Science That Isn’t
    4. The Concept of Mental Illness: Spurious or Valid?


    Filed Under: A Behavioral Approach to Mental Disorders Tagged With: DSM, expansion of psychiatric turf, myth of mental illness, Psychiatric "spin"

    About Phil Hickey

    I am a licensed psychologist, presently retired. I have worked in clinical and managerial positions in the mental health, corrections, and addictions fields in the United States and England. My wife Nancy and I have been married since 1970 and have four grown children.


    Quote Originally Posted by Torchbearer
    what works can never be discussed online. there is only one language the government understands, and until the people start speaking it by the magazine full... things will remain the same.
    Hear/buy my music here "government is the enemy of liberty"-RP Support me on Patreon here Ephesians 6:12

  17. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by pcosmar View Post
    I have had a Chiropractor benefit me. Adjusted my neck and back.. Can't speak for bad ones,,but have known a good one..
    Much like Doctors or mechanics.. There are good and bad.

    Manipulating people through mind control is the worst form of Rape. It is the most serious invasion of privacy.

    These people literally Rape the Mind.
    and with no oversight or consequences.
    That's nice, but the chiro didn't use science to get it you fixed. I've known people who felt worse after chiro. If you want legit science, go to an osteopath or someone who has studied the science of muscles and joints. Psychiatry was invented by David Palmer-a beekeeper/raspberry salesman who knew literally nothing about science or medicine or the human body. Just another quack science movement of the 19th/20th century like phrenology.
    Quote Originally Posted by Torchbearer
    what works can never be discussed online. there is only one language the government understands, and until the people start speaking it by the magazine full... things will remain the same.
    Hear/buy my music here "government is the enemy of liberty"-RP Support me on Patreon here Ephesians 6:12

  18. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by heavenlyboy34 View Post
    That's nice, but the chiro didn't use science to get it you fixed. I've known people who felt worse after chiro.
    Actually He did.. The X-rays of my back showed deposits pressing on nerves....
    Electrical stimulation relaxed my muscles.
    Science applied.

    And yes I was sore after the adjustment,, but the numbness and tingling on my left side was gone,, and I could walk without a limp.
    My employer paid for it...
    He also showed me some exercises to prevent recurrence.

    So,, there is one.
    Last edited by pcosmar; 05-02-2018 at 11:32 AM.
    Liberty is lost through complacency and a subservient mindset. When we accept or even welcome automobile checkpoints, random searches, mandatory identification cards, and paramilitary police in our streets, we have lost a vital part of our American heritage. America was born of protest, revolution, and mistrust of government. Subservient societies neither maintain nor deserve freedom for long.
    Ron Paul 2004

    Registered Ron Paul supporter # 2202
    It's all about Freedom



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  20. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by angelatc View Post
    The people here that would probably benefit from psychiatric help are, not coincidentally, the same people screeching that it's some complicated evil plot that only they can see.
    It's not an "evil plot". (though it has been weaponized several times and is still very corrupt) It is complicated, certainly. It's just bull$#@!. Same as any made up, unproveable, non-empirical "natural" cure you've seen debunked.
    Quote Originally Posted by Torchbearer
    what works can never be discussed online. there is only one language the government understands, and until the people start speaking it by the magazine full... things will remain the same.
    Hear/buy my music here "government is the enemy of liberty"-RP Support me on Patreon here Ephesians 6:12

  21. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by heavenlyboy34 View Post
    It's not an "evil plot". (though it has been weaponized several times and is still very corrupt) It is complicated, certainly. It's just bull$#@!. Same as any made up, unproveable, non-empirical "natural" cure you've seen debunked.
    The lame apology of the sitting president,,
    For those that falsely claim it it a theory.

    Liberty is lost through complacency and a subservient mindset. When we accept or even welcome automobile checkpoints, random searches, mandatory identification cards, and paramilitary police in our streets, we have lost a vital part of our American heritage. America was born of protest, revolution, and mistrust of government. Subservient societies neither maintain nor deserve freedom for long.
    Ron Paul 2004

    Registered Ron Paul supporter # 2202
    It's all about Freedom

  22. #19



    Don't need a weather man to know which way the wind blows

  23. #20
    Psychiatrists don’t even try to "cure" mental health problems. Their main activity is prescribing drugs that cause mental health problems. The main objective of psychiatry is to make their patients/victims docile.
    For more information on psychiatry: http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...lation-control


    The CIA’s MKULTRA project was mainly about mind control experiments.
    This included torture programs by insane psychiatrist (most psychiatrists are more insane than their patients/victims).
    Dr. Donald Ewen Cameron for example tortured his victims so terribly that he created human plants: http://www.ronpaulforums.com/entry.p...ed-Individuals
    Do NOT ever read my posts. Google and Yahoo wouldn’t block them without a very good reason: Google-censors-the-world/page3

    The Order of the Garter rules the world: Order of the Garter and the Carolingian dynasty

  24. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by kona View Post
    Does anyone believe meds are actually helpful?
    All 'meds' are helpful to some people, problems arise when government becomes involved in their use and procurement/possession.

  25. #22
    Psychiatry and Liberty

    Free your mind..

    Liberty is lost through complacency and a subservient mindset. When we accept or even welcome automobile checkpoints, random searches, mandatory identification cards, and paramilitary police in our streets, we have lost a vital part of our American heritage. America was born of protest, revolution, and mistrust of government. Subservient societies neither maintain nor deserve freedom for long.
    Ron Paul 2004

    Registered Ron Paul supporter # 2202
    It's all about Freedom

  26. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Firestarter View Post
    Psychiatrists don’t even try to "cure" mental health problems. Their main activity is prescribing drugs that cause mental health problems. The main objective of psychiatry is to make their patients/victims docile.
    For more information on psychiatry: http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...lation-control


    The CIA’s MKULTRA project was mainly about mind control experiments.
    This included torture programs by insane psychiatrist (most psychiatrists are more insane than their patients/victims).
    Dr. Donald Ewen Cameron for example tortured his victims so terribly that he created human plants: http://www.ronpaulforums.com/entry.p...ed-Individuals
    THIS^^ My mother has been on Sinequan since her nervous breakdown 40+ years ago. The psychiatrist has never done anything but refill her prescription. Even now that dad's dead and she has no major daily stressors, she's hooked on the pills and has no plans to try quitting.
    Quote Originally Posted by Torchbearer
    what works can never be discussed online. there is only one language the government understands, and until the people start speaking it by the magazine full... things will remain the same.
    Hear/buy my music here "government is the enemy of liberty"-RP Support me on Patreon here Ephesians 6:12

  27. #24
    There is a True Science to understanding the human mind.

    What we have today though does not focus on helping people as individuals, but how to manipulate people and destroy individuality. Why? Simple, its more profitable. Just like Goldman recently came out and said that "curing cancer is not a sustainable business model". They make much more money on keeping people sick. Thus, what you end up with in Psychology which extends into Psychiatry is a business model for both unhealthy thinking and unhealthy drugs.

    There are a few people out there that may truly benefit from some types of medications. Much like Pot is now being used to treat Epilepsy. The thing is with Psychiatry, there are NO TESTS that are actually done on an individual to measure those brain chemicals. They are too quickly prescribed for everyone. When coming up with illnesses for the DSM V and beyond, you have a bunch of people that sit around and vote with very little solid evidence of such a condition. Right now, the DMS V has 15,000 forms of Mental Illness. If that isnt the definition of Quackery, then I dont know what is.

    Understanding how something works allows a person with that knowledge to either help repair what is broken, or to cause the most damage possible with least effort. The same is true for the Mind. Understanding how the mind works, such as the idea of "Scripts" or "Routines" allows Marketers, who also learn Psychology, to take advantage of Mental Loopholes. Cake Batter can be simply made with Mix and Water. But, it didnt sell very well. People like Edward Bernays, who is the Father of Propaganda, showed us that "adding an egg" will play to the minds idea of "Scripts", link to the Female Identity of adding femininity to the cake will increase sales. Edward Bernays was the nephew of Sigmund Freud.

    In Psychology, typically there is "no wrong answer". If that is true, then why are there Tests in Psychology class? I could go off on the educational model, but what they are doing to Psych Students is pretty much programming them to only accept the perspectives of figures of authority, while also rejecting ideas that what they are doing is flat out wrong. Understanding Psychology and Psychiatry does not make even the Practitioners of the fields of study immune to the manipulations that true understanding enables.

    Knowing Martial Arts does not prevent you from your bones being broken when a non defensive stance is taken. They tend to focus on breaking your bones and replacing your sense of self with their version of it, while getting paid to hurt people.
    1776 > 1984

    The FAILURE of the United States Government to operate and maintain an
    Honest Money System , which frees the ordinary man from the clutches of the money manipulators, is the single largest contributing factor to the World's current Economic Crisis.

    The Elimination of Privacy is the Architecture of Genocide

    Belief, Money, and Violence are the three ways all people are controlled

    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    Our central bank is not privately owned.



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  29. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by kona View Post
    What is everyone's opinion with respect to psychiatry? Does anyone believe meds are actually helpful?
    It depends on the situation. I believe meds are helpful in certain circumstances.

    Or is the default position here that psychiatry was spearheaded by globalists for experimentation and social control, and doctors today are just following BS protocols from above and don't know any better?
    There's a good bit of that, too.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Paul View Post
    The intellectual battle for liberty can appear to be a lonely one at times. However, the numbers are not as important as the principles that we hold. Leonard Read always taught that "it's not a numbers game, but an ideological game." That's why it's important to continue to provide a principled philosophy as to what the role of government ought to be, despite the numbers that stare us in the face.
    Quote Originally Posted by Origanalist View Post
    This intellectually stimulating conversation is the reason I keep coming here.

  30. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by heavenlyboy34 View Post
    THIS^^ My mother has been on Sinequan since her nervous breakdown 40+ years ago. The psychiatrist has never done anything but refill her prescription. Even now that dad's dead and she has no major daily stressors, she's hooked on the pills and has no plans to try quitting.
    I don't know about "Sinequan", but anti-psychotics have such horrible adverse effects (these aren't the SIDE effect, but ARE the effect) that nobody gets "hooked" on it.
    Most of the drugs make you numb.

    I guess Sinequan is an "anti-depressant". Long-term use of anti-depressants causes "extreme" behaviour as the patients/victims get frustrated with the lack of stimulus caused by the drugs.
    And ironically anti-depressants cause depression...

    Another problem with all of these psychiatric drugs are the withdrawal effects. These withdrawal effects are in turn used to "prove" that the psychiatric drugs "work" (see what happens without them).
    They even use this to rigg the medical "scientific" trials...

    Because of the withdrawal effects, most "anti-psychiatry" experts agree that the only way to stop with the "drugs" (don't call them "medicine") is by tapering off.
    Last edited by Firestarter; 05-04-2018 at 04:12 AM.
    Do NOT ever read my posts. Google and Yahoo wouldn’t block them without a very good reason: Google-censors-the-world/page3

    The Order of the Garter rules the world: Order of the Garter and the Carolingian dynasty

  31. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Firestarter View Post
    I don't know about "Sinequan", but anti-psychotics have such horrible adverse effects (these aren't the SIDE effect, but ARE the effect) that nobody gets "hooked" on it.
    Most of the drugs make you numb.

    I guess Sinequan is an "anti-depressant". Long-term use of anti-depressants causes "extreme" behaviour as the patients/victims get frustrated with the lack of stimulus caused by the drugs.
    And ironically anti-depressants cause depression...

    Another problem with all of these psychiatric drugs are the withdrawal effects. These withdrawal effects are in turn used to "prove" that the psychiatric drugs "work" (see what happens without them).
    They even use this to rigg the medical "scientific" trials...

    Because of the withdrawal effects, most "anti-psychiatry" experts agree that the only way to stop with the "drugs" (don't call them "medicine") is by tapering off.
    Pretty accurate there. *thumbsup*

    What is doxepin (Sinequan) (Sinequan)?

    Doxepin is a tricyclic antidepressants. Doxepin affects chemicals in the brain that may become unbalanced.
    Doxepin (Sinequan or other generic name) is used to treat symptoms of depression and/or anxiety associated with alcoholism, psychiatric conditions, or manic-depressive conditions.
    Doxepin may also be used for purposes not listed in this medication guide.
    https://www.rxlist.com/sinequan-drug...cts.htm#whatis
    Quote Originally Posted by Torchbearer
    what works can never be discussed online. there is only one language the government understands, and until the people start speaking it by the magazine full... things will remain the same.
    Hear/buy my music here "government is the enemy of liberty"-RP Support me on Patreon here Ephesians 6:12

  32. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Suzanimal View Post
    It depends on the situation. I believe meds are helpful in certain circumstances.
    Can you list a few circumstances? Thanks.

  33. #29
    I have a hypothesis, but need more data.

    First, yes, this is related to the drugs. The conscious mind has two major parts, System 1 and System 2. System 1 is fast but prone to errors. System 2 is slow, can process a lot of data, but is far more accurate. System 1 is what we use the majority of the time for efficiency. System 2 is the "deep thought".

    This is something you can observe yourself. Together, a bat and a ball cost $1.10. The bat costs $1.00 more than the ball. How much does the ball cost? There are no taxes or any other hidden information. Your System 1 will tell you the ball "obviously" costs $0.10 cents. This is actually incorrect. Remember, the bat costs $1.00 more than the ball. So if the ball only costs 10 cents and the bat costs 1 dollar, the difference, which is what was requested, is only $0.90 cents, not $1 dollar. Stop and think about it for a second. When you stop and think and analyze, that is your System 2 kicking in. The correct answer is that the ball costs 5 cents, and the bat costs $1.05, so the difference of 1.05 - 0.05 is $1.00, which is what was requested.

    The point of the paragraph is to show that System 1 is prone to make "snap judgements" and inaccurate conclusions. What is taught in much of psychology is not how to prevent making mistakes, but intended for marketing purposes where the inaccurate conclusions drawn by System 1 are exploited more often than concepts such as "checking your answers". Phrases like "Call Now" basically tell you to not think, or to think as little as possible. Buy today. Again, don't think. Its manipulation.

    What I think may be happening is all these drugs prevent System 2 from ever kicking in. The only thing thats left is System 1, where inaccuracies overwhelm the individual. I dont have enough information to draw further conclusions.

    Does anyone have any more information about Drugs shutting down System 2 in the human mind?
    Last edited by DamianTV; 05-04-2018 at 03:10 PM.
    1776 > 1984

    The FAILURE of the United States Government to operate and maintain an
    Honest Money System , which frees the ordinary man from the clutches of the money manipulators, is the single largest contributing factor to the World's current Economic Crisis.

    The Elimination of Privacy is the Architecture of Genocide

    Belief, Money, and Violence are the three ways all people are controlled

    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    Our central bank is not privately owned.

  34. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by kona View Post
    Can you list a few circumstances? Thanks.
    LSD was helpful in breaking addiction.. was quite effective on alcohol addiction..
    It failed for mind control but is has other uses.
    Liberty is lost through complacency and a subservient mindset. When we accept or even welcome automobile checkpoints, random searches, mandatory identification cards, and paramilitary police in our streets, we have lost a vital part of our American heritage. America was born of protest, revolution, and mistrust of government. Subservient societies neither maintain nor deserve freedom for long.
    Ron Paul 2004

    Registered Ron Paul supporter # 2202
    It's all about Freedom

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