Senate votes to block Trump's emergency declaration

[jmdrake]

The $5.6 billion Trump wants to steal from the Department of Defense was appropriated in 1976?

Yes.

[jmdrake]

Hypocrites, didn't do $#@! all the times Obama abused executive powers. Remember DACA??? legal status created without congress???

DACA was an executive order blocking enforcement of existing law. That's no different that Trump blocking enforcement of federal marijuana laws in states that have legalized marijuana. (And that's one good thing Trump did.) What is unconstitutional is the action by the federal courts to stop Trump from overturning DACA.

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/wha...-to-do-with-it

It makes no sense to say one president can stop enforcing the law (that's true) but the next president can't start enforcing it again.

[Superfluous Man]

DACA was an executive order blocking enforcement of existing law. That's no different that Trump blocking enforcement of federal marijuana laws in states that have legalized marijuana. (And that's one good thing Trump did.) What is unconstitutional is the action by the federal courts to stop Trump from overturning DACA.

Exactly.

In fact, probably the actual most praiseworthy accomplishments of the Trump administration have been his deregulation by way of his executive authority to relax enforcement of existing laws. This is the very same thing DACA was, and the very same thing that immigration restrictionists insist the president can't do when they act like the law obligates him to separate kids from their parents because failure to do so would in their minds entail not enforcing the law.

Trump's national emergency declaration is without precedent, unless you go all the way back to an attempt of by Truman to do basically the same thing, way back over 20 years before the 1976 law intended to limit presidential emergency powers was passed (not to expand them, as some here seem to think). And Truman's attempt was rightly struck down by the Supreme Court precisely for the reason that it would spend funds differently than appropriated by Congress, in Youngstown Sheet & Tube Co. v. Sawyer.

Repeatedly in these discussions, Trump's lemmings have used that line, "What about all Obama's national emergency declarations? Why does it only now become unconstitutional when Trump does it?" And again and again these people have been asked to find one single national emergency declaration of Obama's that is at all like this one of Trump's, and nobody has ever been able to find one.

But they keep using that line anyway.

[Swordsmyth]

DACA was an executive order blocking enforcement of existing law. That's no different that Trump blocking enforcement of federal marijuana laws in states that have legalized marijuana. (And that's one good thing Trump did.) What is unconstitutional is the action by the federal courts to stop Trump from overturning DACA.

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/wha...-to-do-with-it

It makes no sense to say one president can stop enforcing the law (that's true) but the next president can't start enforcing it again.

One president stopped enforcing a Constitutional law, the other stopped enforcing an unconstitutional law.
There is a big difference.

[Stratovarious]

Exactly.

In fact, probably the actual most praiseworthy accomplishments of the Trump administration have been his deregulation by way of his executive authority to relax enforcement of existing laws. This is the very same thing DACA was, and the very same thing that immigration restrictionists insist the president can't do when they act like the law obligates him to separate kids from their parents because failure to do so would in their minds entail not enforcing the law.

Trump's national emergency declaration is without precedent, unless you go all the way back to an attempt of by Truman to do basically the same thing, way back over 20 years before the 1976 law intended to limit presidential emergency powers was passed (not to expand them, as some here seem to think). And Truman's attempt was rightly struck down by the Supreme Court precisely for the reason that it would spend funds differently than appropriated by Congress, in Youngstown Sheet & Tube Co. v. Sawyer.

Repeatedly in these discussions, Trump's lemmings have used that line, "What about all Obama's national emergency declarations? Why does it only now become unconstitutional when Trump does it?" And again and again these people have been asked to find one single national emergency declaration of Obama's that is at all like this one of Trump's, and nobody has ever been able to find one.

But they keep using that line anyway.

False

[enhanced_deficit]

MAGA may have lost a battle but not the war. As long as Adelson's money keeps backing him and does not switch to some other primary challenger, MAGA still has a good shot at winning 2020.

[nobody's_hero]

Quite the opposite. It makes the constitutional issues involved very clear cut. I'm sure that it will come up in the lawsuits.

My guess is there's only gonna be a few of them talking about the Constitution. Democrats will oppose it because Trump supports it. Republicans will support it because, well the democrats did it when they were in charge. Rand certainly has his work cut out for him. He needs to be planning his case for the Constitution with Mike Lee so *if* they are given time to speak, they can make it count.

I'm actually surprised how many of the ones who supported it actually mentioned the Constitution.
http://www.rollcall.com/news/congres...onal-emergency
Some names I haven't heard of that might be worth watching.

[nikcers]

My guess is there's only gonna be a few of them talking about the Constitution. Democrats will oppose it because Trump supports it. Republicans will support it because, well the democrats did it when they were in charge. Rand certainly has his work cut out for him. He needs to be planning his case for the Constitution with Mike Lee so *if* they are given time to speak, they can make it count.

I'm actually surprised how many of the ones who supported it actually mentioned the Constitution.
http://www.rollcall.com/news/congres...onal-emergency
Some names I haven't heard of that might be worth watching.

I thought Rand supported it because the left had been pushing this talking point that Rand Paul was Donald Trump's lapdog and always supports Trump even when it's against his core beliefs.

[nobody's_hero]

I thought Rand supported it because the left had been pushing this talking point that Rand Paul was Donald Trump's lapdog and always supports Trump even when it's against his core beliefs.

I don't think Rand really cares what the left thinks. I'd be very surprised if that was a factor in his decision-making process. The only lefty I've ever seen him work well together with is Ron Wyden when it comes to trying to knee-cap the Unpatriotic Act.

[nikcers]

I don't think Rand really cares what the left thinks. I'd be very surprised if that was a factor in his decision-making process. The only lefty I've ever seen him work well together with is Ron Wyden when it comes to trying to knee-cap the Unpatriotic Act.

Oh I group a lot of people together when I say the left on rpf because most people are to the left of Ron Paul lol. That talking point was being pushed everywhere on Twitter and Reddit and there are a lot of Rand Paul people who correct them but not enough that it still becomes a political propaganda meme. I am glad he did it for the right reason but also hope it works for refuting that talking point as well.

[Superfluous Man]

False

You specifically claimed that Obama issued national emergency declarations that were precedent for what Trump did, and I asked you to find one, and you have so far not been able to.

Have you found one yet?

Here's a list of all of them to make it easy for you:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o..._United_States

[Stratovarious]

You specifically claimed that Obama issued national emergency declarations that were precedent for what Trump did, and I asked you to find one, and you have so far not been able to.

Have you found one yet?

Here's a list of all of them to make it easy for you:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o..._United_States

All of them are Obama's whimsical emergencies , none of them are
more worthy than Trump's.

National Emergency act should be repealed, but your Open Border dreams are still a hilarious farce.

[Superfluous Man]

All of them are Obama's whimsical emergencies , none of them are
more worthy than Trump's.

National Emergency act should be repealed, but your Open Border dreams are still a hilarious farce.

If you really do know that for a fact, and you're not just making things up, you should be able to point out in specific how any one of them was similar to Trump's. Can you?

I didn't say anything about whimsical. But did any of them spend money in defiance of how Congress appropriated it by law, which is the whole point of Trump's national emergency order and the main constitutional basis for condemning it (as you'll notice constitutional conservatives have unanimously done, much to the chagrin of most neocon globalists)? If yes, then which one/s? This is the specific way that Trump's order violated the Constitution.

[acptulsa]

All of them are Obama's whimsical emergencies , none of them are
more worthy than Trump's.

Where's the $#@!ing money?

[Stratovarious]

Where's the $#@!ing money?

Obama's 'emergencies' were without cost.......lmao , nice try.

[Superfluous Man]

Obama's 'emergencies' were without cost.......lmao , nice try.

Can you point to one that spent money that had not been appropriated by law?

[acptulsa]

Obama's 'emergencies' were without cost.......lmao , nice try.

Do you see the point? You've participated in about two dozen threads where your nose was rubbed in it. Your nose was rubbed in it on this very page of this very thread, for the love of God. Can you even answer the question, what are people like Rand Paul saying is unconstitutional about what Trump did? Or are you just pretending not to get it, so you can plaster the forum with kekfrog emojis like a spamfronter?

[Stratovarious]

Where's the $#@!ing money?

Obama's 'emergencies' were without cost.......lmao , nice try.

Do you see the point? You've participated in about two dozen threads where your nose was rubbed in it. Your nose was rubbed in it on this very page of this very thread, for the love of God. Can you even answer the question, what are people like Rand Paul saying is unconstitutional about what Trump did? Or are you just pretending not to get it, so you can plaster the forum with kekfrog emojis like a spamfronter?

LMAO

Talking our of your ash , as usual.

[Superfluous Man]

LMAO

Talking our of your ash , as usual.

All you have to do is point to the evidence that supports your claims, if you actually know of any.

If you don't, then why not just admit that you don't, and stop asserting something as factual when you don't really know?

You've been asked many times, and your responses are always like this. Likewise with everybody else who's made that claim. None have been able to come up with a single example of the precedent that they claim to know exists.

[Zippyjuan]

Obama's 'emergencies' were without cost.......lmao , nice try.

Like these? Which ones involved taking money otherwise authorized for something else by congress?

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/list...ry?id=60294693

President Barack Obama

April 12, 2010: The National Emergency With Respect to Blocking Property of Certain Persons Contributing to the Conflict in Somalia was in respect to threats posed by Somali pirates.

February 25, 2011: The National Emergency With Respect to Blocking Property and Prohibiting Certain Transactions Related to Libya froze the assets of Libyan leader Muammar Gaddafi.

July 25, 2011: The National Emergency With Respect to Blocking Property of Transnational Criminals was in response to the rise in crime by specific organizations: Los Zetas (Mexico), The Brothers’ Circle (former Soviet Union countries), the Yakuza (Japan), and the Camorra (Italy).

May 16, 2012: The National Emergency With Respect to Blocking Property of Persons Threatening the Peace, Security, or Stability of Yemen addressed political unrest within the Yemen government.

March 16, 2014: The National Emergency With Respect to Blocking Property of Certain Persons Contributing to the Situation in Ukraine was in response to the Russian invasion of Crimea.

April 3, 2014: The National Emergency With Respect to Blocking Property of Certain Persons With Respect to South Sudan was in response to the ongoing civil war.

May 12, 2014: The National Emergency With Respect to Blocking Property of Certain Persons Contributing to the Conflict in the Central African Republic was in response to violence towards humanitarian aid workers.

March 8, 2015: The National Emergency With Respect to Blocking Property and Suspending Entry of Certain Persons Contributing to the Situation in Venezuela was in response to human rights violations.

April 1, 2015: The National Emergency With Respect to Blocking the Property of Certain Persons Engaging in Significant Malicious Cyber-Enabled Activities was in response to Chinese cyber attacks on the U.S.

Nov 23, 2015: The National Emergency With Respect to Blocking Property of Certain Persons Contributing to the Situation in Burundi was declared after a failed coup.

[Stratovarious]

All you have to do is point to the evidence that supports your claims, if you actually know of any.

If you don't, then why not just admit that you don't, and stop asserting something as factual when you don't really know?

You've been asked many times, and your responses are always like this. Likewise with everybody else who's made that claim. None have been able to come up with a single example of the precedent that they claim to know exists.

Like these? Which ones involved taking money otherwise authorized for something else by congress?

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/list...ry?id=60294693

lol


I already did, neither of you can show how Obama's 'emergencies' were NO COST/\\\\

[Stratovarious]

Like these? Which ones involved taking money otherwise authorized for something else by congress?

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/list...ry?id=60294693

None were without cost.

[Superfluous Man]

lol


I already did, neither of you can show how Obama's 'emergencies' were NO COST/\\\\

What post did you do that in? I missed it.

[Zippyjuan]

lol


I already did, neither of you can show how Obama's 'emergencies' were NO COST/\\\\

How much unappropriated money was spent?

[acptulsa]

Like these? Which ones involved taking money otherwise authorized for something else by congress?

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/list...ry?id=60294693

Rubbing his nose in it doesn't seem to work. I'd say he's making low-value posts, but I hate to libel low-value posts that way.

[timosman]

Like these? Which ones involved taking money otherwise authorized for something else by congress?

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/list...ry?id=60294693

Does dropping pallets of cash in Iran count?

[Superfluous Man]

Does dropping pallets of cash in Iran count?

Which national emergency declaration was that?

[Zippyjuan]

Rubbing his nose in it doesn't seem to work. I'd say he's making low-value posts, but I hate to libel low-value posts that way.

He is just following his posting suggestions from the guidebook.

[timosman]

Which national emergency declaration was that?

That's your counterargument?

[Superfluous Man]

That's your counterargument?

No, it's an honest question. Which one?

Related question: Did that payment spend any funds from the treasury contrary to how they were appropriated by law?