Page 2 of 5 FirstFirst 1234 ... LastLast
Results 31 to 60 of 144

Thread: Ron Paul R3volution falls victim to Trump and frustration

  1. #31
    The R3volution produced a lot of fruit, but sadly it failed to reach its full potential largely due to failed leadership at the top.
    __________________________________________________ ________________
    "A politician will do almost anything to keep their job, even become a patriot" - Hearst



  2. Remove this section of ads by registering.
  3. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by CaptUSA View Post
    Doing what?! Growing government and getting former liberty folks to cheer him on?! Yay.

    At least if it was Hillary doing this stuff, people would be up in arms in opposition. Trump grows spending and the response is pathetic.
    Trump has cut regulation, he has done his level best to slap down the EPA (the alphabet soup agency I am convinced is the single biggest threat to liberty), he has made former trading "partners" take notice that trade deals are no longer going to be one sided globalist affairs, he has done his level best to repeal Obamacare, providing EO relief when the establishment GOP sluts refused, in spite of his bluster he has stood by the second amendment, he is doing his level best to appoint constitutionalist judges throughout the federal judiciary, he has made peace overtures to NK and to Russia, thereby averting war that the establishment, represented by Hillary, wanted so badly...just to name a few things off the top of my head.

    I'm not cheering him on, I'm giving credit where it's due.

    As a whole, from a freedom perspective, we are better off, factually.

    To think Hillary would have done any of that is irrational.
    Last edited by Anti Federalist; 08-16-2018 at 08:37 PM.



  4. Remove this section of ads by registering.
  5. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post
    To think Hillary would have done any of that is irrational.
    It is indicative of someone who either was never on the side of liberty to begin with, now or in the past, but has chosen to attach themselves to liberty groups under a different motivation, such as careerism or virtue signaling. As with the GOP and Dem parties, the liberty side consulting class has clearly diverged from the base.

  6. #34
    I agree. I was totally against Trump at the beginning, but he has surprised me. He is flawed, but much better than expected. I think people go off the rails when they get too invested in a stance due to emotions. You can see it where the bad feelings held over from 2016 has caused many people to dig in their heels and either totally hate him or totally like him. People get ruled by their passions and take stances due to bad feeling s from old arguments rather than by core beliefs.



    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post
    Trump has cut regulation, he has done his level best to slap down the EPA (the alphabet soup agency I am convinced is the single biggest threat to liberty), he has made former trading "partners" take notice that trade deals are no longer going to be one sided globalist affairs, he has done his level best to repeal Obamacare, providing EO relief when the establishment GOP sluts refused, in spite of his bluster he has stood by the second amendment, he is doing his level best to appoint constitutionalist judges throughout the federal judiciary, he has made peace overtures to NK and to Russia, thereby averting war that the establishment, represented by Hillary, wanted so badly...just to name a few things off the top of my head.

    I'm not cheering him on, I'm giving credit where it's due.

    As a whole, from as freedom perspective, we are better off, factually.

    To think Hillary would have done any of that is irrational.
    ...

  7. #35
    Supporting Member
    Phoenix, AZ
    Cleaner44's Avatar


    Blog Entries
    4
    Posts
    9,144
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post
    This is my biggest problem with Trump.

    On many other fronts, he is moving the ball forward in positive ways.

    Overall, after two years now of watching this, we are in better shape than if Hillary had been appointed, and that's a plain fact.
    As usual I find myself in complete agreement with you. Trump is certainly well short of being a libertarian and he is a copsucker, but there is a ton good from him as well. One only has to be willing to see the positive.
    Citizen of Arizona
    @cleaner4d4

    I am a libertarian. I am advocating everyone enjoy maximum freedom on both personal and economic issues as long as they do not bring violence unto others.

  8. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by thoughtomator View Post
    It is indicative of someone who either was never on the side of liberty to begin with, now or in the past, but has chosen to attach themselves to liberty groups under a different motivation, such as careerism or virtue signaling. As with the GOP and Dem parties, the liberty side consulting class has clearly diverged from the base.
    Nah, I'm not going to jump on that bandwagon.

    I've had more than a couple of people call me "enemy of freedom", "racist", "sexist", anti liberty and so on because of nothing more than adjusting my outlook based on current factual realities.

    Capt. USA is no big government statist.

    If he doesn't want to acknowledge this progress, for whatever reason, that's his right.

  9. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by CaptUSA View Post
    Sorry, guys - this article is right. Look around in here. Just because you have been conned into the Trump bandwagon doesn't mean "most" of us have.

    Most of us have abandoned this place and returned to apathy. That's the fact.

    Hell, I almost would have preferred a Hillary win at this point. At least then, we'd be united in opposition to the growing State. But alas, many of you are now cheering for it. If you can't see what Trump has done to the Ron Paul R3VOLution, then you are indeed blind.

    Admittedly, Trump has done some good things, but the damage done to the principles of true liberty will probably never be repaired in my lifetime.
    Oh BULL$#@!. Trump didn't do one damn thing to the Ron Paul Revolution and the Revolution was never made up of people sitting on their asses bitching and moaning on an internet forum.

    Trump isn't one of THEM and he's proven himself open to good advice; like the advice he accepts from Rand. Too bad when Trump was asking for recommendations for Cabinet positions that some of the holy ones at the top of this movement couldn't come off their high horse and give them to him. Instead of sitting back and pontificating about how bad his choices were after the fact.
    Last edited by LibertyEagle; 08-16-2018 at 11:35 PM.
    ================
    Open Borders: A Libertarian Reappraisal or why only dumbasses and cultural marxists are for it.

    Cultural Marxism: The Corruption of America

    The Property Basis of Rights

  10. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by Matt Collins View Post
    The R3volution produced a lot of fruit, but sadly it failed to reach its full potential largely due to failed leadership at the top.
    Interesting. Because I remember how the majority claimed that no leadership was wanted or needed. lol
    ================
    Open Borders: A Libertarian Reappraisal or why only dumbasses and cultural marxists are for it.

    Cultural Marxism: The Corruption of America

    The Property Basis of Rights

  11. #39


  12. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post
    Trump has cut regulation, he has done his level best to slap down the EPA (the alphabet soup agency I am convinced is the single biggest threat to liberty), he has made former trading "partners" take notice that trade deals are no longer going to be one sided globalist affairs, he has done his level best to repeal Obamacare, providing EO relief when the establishment GOP sluts refused, in spite of his bluster he has stood by the second amendment, he is doing his level best to appoint constitutionalist judges throughout the federal judiciary, he has made peace overtures to NK and to Russia, thereby averting war that the establishment, represented by Hillary, wanted so badly...just to name a few things off the top of my head.

    I'm not cheering him on, I'm giving credit where it's due.

    As a whole, from a freedom perspective, we are better off, factually.

    To think Hillary would have done any of that is irrational.
    Ok, hang on a second. I give credit where credit is due. Cutting regulations is a big positive - but then he INCREASED regulations in other areas. New artificial trade barriers imposed by government are regulations AND he supports cronyist subsidization. He cut income taxes. Fantastic! But then he increased spending! As Ron Paul has always said: SPENDING IS THE REAL TAX! Cutting taxes while increasing spending just shifts the burden. You'll see that in the future, even if you want to ignore it now. You thinking he is averting war??!!!! Holy shyte! He's boosting the military more than ever before! He's also dropping bombs at an increased rate. He's engaging with foes which is a huge positive, but let's not be naďve - he's still working the neocon angle of strategically plotting out the chessboard - he's just using a different strategy. Globalism?? The term, "Globalism" is completely misconstrued. The liberty movement used to be FOR global trade and against global government. Trade globally, govern locally. This "MAGA" stuff with trade is the exact opposite.

    I gave the same credit to Obama. Obama initiated several criminal justice reforms and began investigations of police misconduct. Sure, it was to mixed results, but we're giving credit here where it is due. Obama cut the ridiculous space program and allowed privatization. He commuted the sentence of whistle-blower Private Manning. He was pretty good on individual rights for gays (even though he acted as if government was granting those rights instead of protecting them). His administration was comparatively lax on enforcing federal drug laws and many states were able to turn things around towards liberty during his terms. Even on guns, Obama repealed the law that prevented people from carrying in national parks and another that prevented people from carrying on Amtrak trains.


    But does that mean he was a positive for liberty??!! Hell no! Far from it! You may prefer the right boot to the left one, but the State is still growing! And it's growing FASTER than ever! Would Hillary have done that? Sure she would have liked to, but with a Republican congress, she would have faced tough opposition. And the liberty movement would be united in that opposition. Instead, we have many of you getting distracted by the "show". Yeah, it's entertaining, but the State is still growing and liberty is shrinking. The power of the Executive branch is expanding while local governance is diminishing.

    Just like with Obama, let's give credit where it's due, but let's not lose sight of the authoritarian at the helm. Our opposition to the State is fracturing because of some stupid cult of personality. I know you can recognize the hypocrisy here. If the left boot was doing this same stuff, you'd all be with us. Ron Paul is special in that he is only loyal to the principles of liberty - which is why he still shares our opposition to the current administration.

    The man who gives you pennies from his right hand while stealing dollars from his left is no better than the man who gives you pennies from his left and steals dollars from your right. The areas where you think Trump is benefitting the cause of liberty are miniscule compared to the areas where he's destroying the cause. I'm just being consistent.
    "And now that the legislators and do-gooders have so futilely inflicted so many systems upon society, may they finally end where they should have begun: May they reject all systems, and try liberty; for liberty is an acknowledgment of faith in God and His works." - Bastiat

    "It is difficult to free fools from the chains they revere." - Voltaire



  13. Remove this section of ads by registering.
  14. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by CaptUSA View Post
    The man who gives you pennies from his right hand while stealing dollars from his left is no better than the man who gives you pennies from his left and steals dollars from your right. The areas where you think Trump is benefitting the cause of liberty are miniscule compared to the areas where he's destroying the cause. I'm just being consistent.
    I'm not seeing it that way.

    Two steps forward, one back.

    YMMV.
    Last edited by Anti Federalist; 08-17-2018 at 06:22 AM.

  15. #42
    Globalism?? The term, "Globalism" is completely misconstrued. The liberty movement used to be FOR global trade and against global government. Trade globally, govern locally.
    I have always been opposed to global trade agreements, managed trade, and have been in favor of tariffs and excises as the only constitutionally permitted form of taxation the fedgov can collect.

    An "America First" trade policy...MAGA if you insist.

    You can see my posts going back ten years on that.

    And, gee, guess, what?

    It sure seems to be working.

  16. #43
    Rand Paul timidly apologized for shushing a reporter where Donald Trump would have embellished that opportunity to make himself a dominant household name.

  17. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by Cleaner44 View Post
    As usual I find myself in complete agreement with you. Trump is certainly well short of being a libertarian and he is a copsucker, but there is a ton good from him as well. One only has to be willing to see the positive.
    Trump is your best friend and you are the greatest until he is not and you are not. Copsucker today, Copblocker tomorrow? It is anybody's guess.

  18. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post
    I have always been opposed to global trade agreements, managed trade, and have been in favor of tariffs and excises as the only constitutionally permitted form of taxation the fedgov can collect.

    An "America First" trade policy...MAGA if you insist.

    You can see my posts going back ten years on that.

    And, gee, guess, what?

    It sure seems to be working.
    I am also against managed trade. But do you not see that that is exactly what Trump is doing? He just wants it to be managed differently.

    Ron Paul (and myself) is for lowering all of our tariffs regardless of what other countries may do. No need for any government "trade deals" - even if they're "MAGA deals". And it's working?? I guess that depends on which industry you ask. Governments LOVE picking winners and losers. Tariffs and excise taxes should be very low and evenly applied across industries. We should be against politicians using their power to curry political favor. It's not their power to wield.

    "Trade globally" means that individuals can trade with anyone that suits their needs without interference from governments. It does NOT mean global trade agreements between governments. And since "Govern locally" means just that, the only government we should be concerned with is our own.
    "And now that the legislators and do-gooders have so futilely inflicted so many systems upon society, may they finally end where they should have begun: May they reject all systems, and try liberty; for liberty is an acknowledgment of faith in God and His works." - Bastiat

    "It is difficult to free fools from the chains they revere." - Voltaire

  19. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by LibertyEagle View Post
    Interesting. Because I remember how the majority claimed that no leadership was wanted or needed. lol
    Good to see you back around here...


    Anyway, to the point at hand, yes even the pro liberty crowd are humans, and humans need leadership whether they want to admit it or not.
    __________________________________________________ ________________
    "A politician will do almost anything to keep their job, even become a patriot" - Hearst

  20. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by Matt Collins View Post
    Good to see you back around here...

    Anyway, to the point at hand, yes even the pro liberty crowd are humans, and humans need leadership whether they want to admit it or not.
    The point was Matt, that they won't take it. Have you forgotten how pseudo campaign literature was made by 2 guys in Florida and money was gathered from everywhere to send out what these two guys thought should be sent to every household in certain states? Everything but the kitchen sink was in there, rather than the targeted marketing that is known to work, links to 911 crapola, ... ugh.. No, we couldn't let the campaign do their own literature, these two guys knew better. Remember the coffin on the front of one of them that just about alienated the military standing up for Ron in Iowa?

    Then there was the Campaign for Liberty. Not perfect, no, but instead of seeing how it could be helped, I remember the onslaught here denouncing every damn thing they did.

    That's just two examples. I'm sure you know of a hundred more, just like I do.
    ================
    Open Borders: A Libertarian Reappraisal or why only dumbasses and cultural marxists are for it.

    Cultural Marxism: The Corruption of America

    The Property Basis of Rights

  21. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by CaptUSA View Post
    I am also against managed trade. But do you not see that that is exactly what Trump is doing? He just wants it to be managed differently.

    Ron Paul (and myself) is for lowering all of our tariffs regardless of what other countries may do. No need for any government "trade deals" - even if they're "MAGA deals". And it's working?? I guess that depends on which industry you ask. Governments LOVE picking winners and losers. Tariffs and excise taxes should be very low and evenly applied across industries. We should be against politicians using their power to curry political favor. It's not their power to wield.

    "Trade globally" means that individuals can trade with anyone that suits their needs without interference from governments. It does NOT mean global trade agreements between governments. And since "Govern locally" means just that, the only government we should be concerned with is our own.
    You know, I don't know if what Trump is doing will work either. No one wants tariffs. He wants the trade agreements changed. They don't want to. Thus, the tariffs until they do. Trump wants bilateral trade agreements, rather than multilateral. Good for him!! About damn time.
    ================
    Open Borders: A Libertarian Reappraisal or why only dumbasses and cultural marxists are for it.

    Cultural Marxism: The Corruption of America

    The Property Basis of Rights



  22. Remove this section of ads by registering.
  23. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by LibertyEagle View Post
    You know, I don't know if what Trump is doing will work either. No one wants tariffs. He wants the trade agreements changed. They don't want to. Thus, the tariffs until they do. Trump wants bilateral trade agreements, rather than multilateral. Good for him!! About damn time.
    I'm open to changing my perspective on tariffs if it actually yields a better long-term result. But at what point does it become a bad idea if no one is willing to negotiate? 2 years? 5 years? 20 years?
    Support Justin Amash for Congress
    Michigan Congressional District 3

  24. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by EBounding View Post
    I'm open to changing my perspective on tariffs if it actually yields a better long-term result. But at what point does it become a bad idea if no one is willing to negotiate? 2 years? 5 years? 20 years?
    Honestly, I don't know a number. I'm not in favor of substantial tariffs. What I am interested in though, is getting out of these rotten trade agreements. Don't know if tariffs will work in getting us there, or not.
    ================
    Open Borders: A Libertarian Reappraisal or why only dumbasses and cultural marxists are for it.

    Cultural Marxism: The Corruption of America

    The Property Basis of Rights

  25. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by LibertyEagle View Post
    Honestly, I don't know a number. I'm not in favor of substantial tariffs. What I am interested in though, is getting out of these rotten trade agreements. Don't know if tariffs will work in getting us there, or not.
    Same old schtick. Whatever you hope to gain by this, you cannot call it a liberty-oriented approach. I've never seen the "use more government to get less government" approach ever work. Can you give us an example where it has?
    "And now that the legislators and do-gooders have so futilely inflicted so many systems upon society, may they finally end where they should have begun: May they reject all systems, and try liberty; for liberty is an acknowledgment of faith in God and His works." - Bastiat

    "It is difficult to free fools from the chains they revere." - Voltaire

  26. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by CaptUSA View Post
    Same old schtick. Whatever you hope to gain by this, you cannot call it a liberty-oriented approach. I've never seen the "use more government to get less government" approach ever work. Can you give us an example where it has?
    Fair enough. Please tell us your workable plan to get us out of the multilateral trade deals we are currently in.
    ================
    Open Borders: A Libertarian Reappraisal or why only dumbasses and cultural marxists are for it.

    Cultural Marxism: The Corruption of America

    The Property Basis of Rights

  27. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by CaptUSA View Post
    Same old schtick. Whatever you hope to gain by this, you cannot call it a liberty-oriented approach. I've never seen the "use more government to get less government" approach ever work. Can you give us an example where it has?
    See that's just it...it is not using more government.

    Ideally this is the proposal: you import into the US market? Pay xx percent on the product, commodity or service.

    Done.

    Supra national trade agreements lead to EU unions.

    Right now I suffer under a warehouse full of edicts, mandates, rules and fatwas all decreed by a branch of the UN.

    I have no representation, no say in any of these rules, no way in which to "redress my grievances" and no choice but to comply.

    In the US mind you.

    That's more government.

  28. #54
    Supporting Member
    Phoenix, AZ
    Cleaner44's Avatar


    Blog Entries
    4
    Posts
    9,144
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Quote Originally Posted by Schifference View Post
    Trump is your best friend and you are the greatest until he is not and you are not. Copsucker today, Copblocker tomorrow? It is anybody's guess.
    Your post doesn't really make sense to me. Maybe next time to can work on being more clear.

    Trump isn't my friend at all, but I would like to have billionaire friends.

    I am the greatest and always have been!

    Just to be clear about my feelings on Trump, I appreciate the many positive things that are happening as a result of him being President. His positives outweigh his negatives as far as I am concerned. I could go on and on about what those positives are for me, but does anyone really care?
    Citizen of Arizona
    @cleaner4d4

    I am a libertarian. I am advocating everyone enjoy maximum freedom on both personal and economic issues as long as they do not bring violence unto others.

  29. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by Cleaner44 View Post
    Your post doesn't really make sense to me. Maybe next time to can work on being more clear.

    Trump isn't my friend at all, but I would like to have billionaire friends.

    I am the greatest and always have been!

    Just to be clear about my feelings on Trump, I appreciate the many positive things that are happening as a result of him being President. His positives outweigh his negatives as far as I am concerned. I could go on and on about what those positives are for me, but does anyone really care?
    Trump always says everyone is the greatest until he changes his mind. Trump is for it until he is against it. No that Trump is "your best friend."

  30. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post
    See that's just it...it is not using more government.

    Ideally this is the proposal: you import into the US market? Pay xx percent on the product, commodity or service.

    Done.
    Except that's not how it works. This is the real proposal: You, Mr. Consumer, want to buy a product, commodity or service from a country on the authoritarian's naughty list? You have to pay more because we've put more government in the way.

    No matter which way you cut it, it's more government interference in the trade between two individuals.

    Some seem to think that this "more government" will eventually lead to less government. I don't think that's ever happened. More likely, it will just be a shift in the favored cronyist industries.
    "And now that the legislators and do-gooders have so futilely inflicted so many systems upon society, may they finally end where they should have begun: May they reject all systems, and try liberty; for liberty is an acknowledgment of faith in God and His works." - Bastiat

    "It is difficult to free fools from the chains they revere." - Voltaire



  31. Remove this section of ads by registering.
  32. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by CaptUSA View Post
    Except that's not how it works. This is the real proposal: You, Mr. Consumer, want to buy a product, commodity or service from a country on the authoritarian's naughty list? You have to pay more because we've put more government in the way.

    No matter which way you cut it, it's more government interference in the trade between two individuals.

    Some seem to think that this "more government" will eventually lead to less government. I don't think that's ever happened. More likely, it will just be a shift in the favored cronyist industries.
    There is already government involvement in trade and it is used to destroy our economy, Trump is defending America and trying to reduce government involvement in the end.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  33. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by Schifference View Post
    Rand Paul timidly apologized for shushing a reporter where Donald Trump would have embellished that opportunity to make himself a dominant household name.
    That was the end of his campaign.

  34. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by Schifference View Post
    Trump always says everyone is the greatest until he changes his mind. Trump is for it until he is against it. No that Trump is "your best friend."
    He knows how to work with people.

  35. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by LibertyEagle View Post
    The point was Matt, that they won't take it. Have you forgotten how pseudo campaign literature was made by 2 guys in Florida and money was gathered from everywhere to send out what these two guys thought should be sent to every household in certain states? Everything but the kitchen sink was in there, rather than the targeted marketing that is known to work, links to 911 crapola, ... ugh.. No, we couldn't let the campaign do their own literature, these two guys knew better. Remember the coffin on the front of one of them that just about alienated the military standing up for Ron in Iowa?

    Then there was the Campaign for Liberty. Not perfect, no, but instead of seeing how it could be helped, I remember the onslaught here denouncing every damn thing they did.

    That's just two examples. I'm sure you know of a hundred more, just like I do.
    Why couldn't the campaign handle these?

Page 2 of 5 FirstFirst 1234 ... LastLast


Similar Threads

  1. Donald Trump - Professional Victim
    By jllundqu in forum 2016 Presidential Election: GOP & Dem
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 08-02-2016, 12:55 PM
  2. TRUMP FALLS TO SECOND PLACE NATIONALLY [IBD/TIPP]
    By carlton in forum 2016 Presidential Election: GOP & Dem
    Replies: 45
    Last Post: 10-04-2015, 09:49 AM
  3. Social Fixer Falls Victim To Facebook Legal Threats
    By DamianTV in forum U.S. Political News
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 10-07-2013, 06:21 AM
  4. Whitman falls victim to bid sniper
    By squarepusher in forum U.S. Political News
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 11-03-2010, 08:47 AM
  5. Replies: 2
    Last Post: 10-12-2010, 02:59 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •