Cognitive Dissonance (Some *food* for thought)

[dannno]

Yes it is, because movie or no movie, pigs actually are intelligent, feeling animals, and MOST people (especially people who love animals) would not have the instinct to harm and torture an innocent pig if, for example, there was one that was brought into a room of people. They would probably want to pet him, and be kind to the pig. That is what is cognitive dissonance, to have that instinct yet to turn around and eat ham or bacon the next day.

Nobody here is pro-animal torture.. Everybody here would prefer if the animals they ate were treated humanely and not have to experience unnecessary suffering.

But you still won't address the fact that those animals wouldn't be alive without people purchasing meat to buy them animal food and keep them protected.

[dannno]

What if you have a Pet Dog? What are you supposed to feed it if you want to be consistent liking animals, but dogs eat meat even if ground up by petfood companies?

It's possible to feed a dog a vegan diet, some people even feed their cats a vegan diet but I think they have to supplement taurine and l-carnitine.

https://www.peta.org/living/animal-c...ian-cats-dogs/

Not the best diet for your pets, imo.

I feed my dog grain free dog food.

[lilymc]

I see what you did there. A couple of minutes on the "cognitive dissonance" part, the rest is a standard horrors of a slaughterhouse piece. "Watch it to the end", eh?

Ha. Actually, no, there is that clip in the middle, but then she goes back to talking. My main reason for posting it was not a “scheme” to get people to see that footage (although I do think that it’s a good thing when people see the reality), it was because she brings up a very good point, that is pretty much undeniable in regard to most people. And I just think it’s a really good video.

[Jamesiv1]

So they replace the animals with an empty field of chopped up rodents and plants.. That doesn't make any sense.

Chopped rodent salad with blue cheese dressing. Don't knock it till you try it.

[dannno]

Chopped rodent salad with blue cheese dressing. Don't knock it till you try it.

I think I'll stick with the Cobb..

Actually that's what I just ate a few minutes ago, Cobb Salad.

Lettuce, tomato, red onion, avocado, chicken, bacon, hard boiled egg and blue cheese. Yum.

[VIDEODROME]

Even better is people who treat their pet animals better than their human employees.

[Swordsmyth]

Yes it is, because movie or no movie, pigs actually are intelligent, feeling animals, and MOST people (especially people who love animals) would not have the instinct to harm and torture an innocent pig if, for example, there was one that was brought into a room of people. They would probably want to pet him, and be kind to the pig. That is what is cognitive dissonance, to have that instinct yet to turn around and eat ham or bacon the next day.

The movies always exaggerate the anthropomorphism for entertainment value and I and many others do have the instinct to kill the pig to provide food for ourselves and our families.
Dogs are lucky that canines don't taste very good so it takes real desperation before most cultures will get around to eating them.

[lilymc]

But you still won't address the fact that those animals wouldn't be alive without people purchasing meat to buy them animal food and keep them protected.

That is not only false, but so convoluted and twisted, that I don’t even know where to begin in my response to that.

First of all, we’re not saying that all those animals currently trapped in the animal industries should be set free into the wild to fend for themselves. That is a total misunderstanding. Secondly, I have never heard any vegan say that none of those animals should exist at all.

There are more and more animal sanctuaries every year, and in fact many farms have been converting to animal sanctuaries which I think is an amazing, beautiful thing.

Also, pigs and other farm animals can be companion animals, like dogs and cats, horses, etc. Of course not everyone has the ability to care for certain farm animals, especially the big ones, but it is happening, and from what I’ve seen it’s happening more and more.

But in regard to what you said, it is troubling to me that (correct me if I’m wrong) you seem to think that a short life of extreme confinement, misery, in many cases torture, and killing against the animal's will… is better than no life at all? I hope you’re not saying that, but that’s a moot point anyway, because it’s not an either / or. In other words, it doesn’t have to be what is currently going on, or no existence at all.

[dannno]

That is not only false, but so convoluted and twisted, that I don’t even know where to begin in my response to that.

First of all, we’re not saying that all those animals currently trapped in the animal industries should be set free into the wild to fend for themselves. That is a total misunderstanding. Secondly, I have never heard any vegan say that none of those animals should exist at all.

There are more and more animal sanctuaries every year, and in fact many farms have been converting to animal sanctuaries which I think is an amazing, beautiful thing.

Also, pigs and other farm animals can be companion animals, like dogs and cats, horses, etc. Of course not everyone has the ability to care for certain farm animals, especially the big ones, but it is happening, and from what I’ve seen it’s happening more and more.

But in regard to what you said, it is troubling to me that (correct me if I’m wrong) you seem to think that a short life of extreme confinement, misery, in many cases torture, and killing against the animal's will… is better than no life at all? I hope you’re not saying that, but that’s a moot point anyway, because it’s not an either / or. In other words, it doesn’t have to be what is currently going on, or no existence at all.

Who is going to feed the animals in the sanctuaries?

[VIDEODROME]

But in regard to what you said, it is troubling to me that (correct me if I’m wrong) you seem to think that a short life of extreme confinement, misery, in many cases torture, and killing against the animal's will… is better than no life at all? I hope you’re not saying that, but that’s a moot point anyway, because it’s not an either / or. In other words, it doesn’t have to be what is currently going on, or no existence at all.

I don't think everyone feels that way, but some here do kind of come off that way with just the simple gruff response that animals are just resources to be hacked up into meat.

[VIDEODROME]

I think I'll stick with the Cobb..

Actually that's what I just ate a few minutes ago, Cobb Salad.

Lettuce, tomato, red onion, avocado, chicken, bacon, hard boiled egg and blue cheese. Yum.

I will say I love Bleu Cheese with some Hot Wings, but also excellent on salad.

Understanding that Dairy Cows are treated okay and I think most are, while it seems to me even the chickens could get a quick electric shock to the head.

Besides that, why the hell would people want to wrestle and beat up poultry birds on the floor trying to get them processed instead of just shocking them? Unless the factory farms are such a brutal place it affects people mentally after a while making behave in a savage manner? Could be said that the factory slaughterhouses are even cruel workplaces to the human employees there?

[lilymc]

I don't think everyone feels that way, but some here do kind of come off that way with just the simple gruff response that animals are just resources to be hacked up into meat.

Yep, I agree. Maybe part of it is the desire to appear “manly”... which TBH is so misguided and wrong. I believe that real men are protectors of the innocent, vulnerable, and weaker among us. There’s nothing manly at all about exploiting and picking on an innocent, defenseless being (most of them are babies, actually) and in my opinion there’s nothing admirable about that at all.

[TheTexan]

Cows would have gone extinct long long ago, if they just weren't so damned tasty

They should thank us, for the privilege of being eaten

[dannno]

But in regard to what you said, it is troubling to me that (correct me if I’m wrong) you seem to think that a short life of extreme confinement, misery, in many cases torture, and killing against the animal's will… is better than no life at all? I hope you’re not saying that, but that’s a moot point anyway, because it’s not an either / or. In other words, it doesn’t have to be what is currently going on, or no existence at all.

I agree, it doesn't have to be an either/or. Plenty of ranchers give their animals a great life and a painless death. I agree that should be a higher priority for meat eaters as a whole to choose meat that has been treated well. That was half of what my long post was that you never responded to, about how meat eaters can make the lives of the animals that they help support and raise to eat better.

[TheTexan]

meat that has been treated well.

The trick is to find the right balance of salt & seasoning

[lilymc]

Understanding that Dairy Cows are treated okay and I think most are, while it seems to me even the chickens could get a quick electric shock to the head.

Actually, dairy is said to be even worse than the meat industry, because of what goes for years before the cow is finally of no more use to the industry, then killed for hamburger meat.

This video has turned tons of people vegan, and while she is focusing on factory farms, some of those same practices take place on the smaller, so-called 'humane' farms too.

[Swordsmyth]

[William Tell]

I highly doubt you would torture your dog, then kill and eat him… But you see nothing wrong with doing that to an animal that is even more intelligent than your dog.

@Swordsmyth I'm disappointed to learn you support torture.

[TheTexan]

they go to the grocery store to buy and eat the dismembered corpses of innocent animals, that in other settings they would probably want to pet and admire.

On the flip side of that same coin, if animals didn't need to be butchered and cooked in order to be tasty, we'd probably have no problem at all with just biting right into a cute fluffy bunny while it was still alive.

[lilymc]

Who is going to feed the animals in the sanctuaries?

The people who run the sanctuaries. Are you asking how they fund it? Many of them are funded by like-minded people who want to see the animals live in a safe, clean, loving and peaceful environment.

This guy is awesome. He does an amazing job with the sanctuary, and I love following his page on Instagram or Facebook, because it feels like you’re right there with him in giving those animals a good life, who otherwise would be trapped in the horrors of the animal industries.

I could post tons of examples of people who rescue animals, and prove that farm animals are really not much different than dogs, they all have unique personalities, they all have the same desire to live, be happy, and enjoy life, just like you and me.

[William Tell]

What if you have a Pet Dog? What are you supposed to feed it if you want to be consistent liking animals, but dogs eat meat even if ground up by petfood companies?

Dogs should be vegan too. Try feeding your husky nothing but celery and you too will be shocked to see it's health improved.

[heavenlyboy34]

I hope you do come back later, read it again and consider it because there are actually zero false statements in there. Ranchers create life, all those pigs you are fond of would not exist without people who eat meat. Millions of pigs are alive because of people who eat meat. Only wild boars would exist, they are not cute.






Yes, of course, because 9 times out of 10 it will be less painful that way and they will not die in vein.



I explained that in my post that you need to review and respond to - Babe is ONLY alive because there is a farm and a ranch which only exists because people eat meat.



It's not cognitive dissonance to want to give farm animals a good life and then eat them - especially when the alternative is an empty field with a few rodents that get chopped up each year. That is what veganism is. There would be no farm animals. It's you that has cognitive dissonance. Explain how there would be farm animals if people didn't eat meat. A few people might have them as pets, but 99.999% of them would die out. Because vegans claim they like life? So they replace the animals with an empty field of chopped up rodents and plants.. That doesn't make any sense.

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to dannno again.

Dang, I actually agree with you on this.

[H_H]

Nope, not even close. The dictionary definition is: the state of having inconsistent thoughts, beliefs, or attitudes

Aha, but inconsistent with what? (More precisely with whom.) Answer: with the thoughts, beliefs, or attitudes of the person accusing you of cognitive dissonance. More often than not.

I'm not saying it couldn't be a real thing with a coherent meaning and which had value to bring to a discussion. Just that it usually doesn't.

For example, someone saying they love animals, yet purchasing products that are the result of exploitation, misery cruelty and unnecessary killing.

For example, someone saying they love their children, yet they spank them?

Actually scratch that, you'll agree with that as a valid example.

For example, someone saying they love their country, yet hate paying taxes?

For example, someone saying they love their child, yet they refuse (probably for crazed ideological reasons) to use force to discipline him, even when it would clearly be to his betterment?

Are we liking those examples?

[H_H]

On the flip side of that same coin, if animals didn't need to be butchered and cooked in order to be tasty, we'd probably have no problem at all with just biting right into a cute fluffy bunny while it was still alive.

That is a really good point. Actually.

Absurdism and logic. Two coins on the same flip.

[lilymc]

Dang, I actually agree with you on this.

Almost everything he said was either demonstrably false or a misunderstanding. It is asinine to think that the only reason they exist is because people eat them...which not only implies that we have to eat them in order to keep them existing, but that their short miserable life is worth it for them? As I said to him, we can raise animals in a safe loving environment, not for the purpose of exploiting and eating them, but simply to let them live a good life. And that is what is happening more and more.

Of course the numbers will go down, because we are currently bringing into existence billions of animals for the sole purpose of exploiting and killing them. But they will still exist, and to claim otherwise is foolish.

[H_H]

I had the bunnies in the daily .

Yeah, what's up with rabbit being less foody than horse? Rabbit is great. And they are none too hot as pets, IMO.

[dannno]

Almost everything he said was either demonstrably false or a misunderstanding. It is asinine to think that the only reason they exist is because people eat them...which not only implies that we have to eat them in order to keep them existing, but that their short miserable life is worth it for them? As I said to him, we can raise animals in a safe loving environment, not for the purpose of exploiting and eating them, but simply to let them live a good life. And that is what is happening more and more.

Of course the numbers will go down, because we are currently bringing into existence billions of animals for the sole purpose of exploiting and killing them. But they will still exist, and to claim otherwise is foolish.

I never said they would definitely all disappear completely, I said 99.99% will disappear.. and that is true.. There are a lot more animals out there living because people eat meat and so they pay to give them land and have them fed, sorry, that is a factual statement I made that you can't disprove, you even agreed with me that there would be less. It's just that there would be significantly less, and you won't admit that.

You posted a picture of a guy who has an "animal sanctuary" that used to be a farm. That didn't answer my question at all. Who is paying for it? Where does the money come from? Sometimes people win the lottery or have extra money and they can do nice things like that, but it's not sustainable, not practical to have a bunch of farm animal sanctuaries all over the place.

[lilymc]

I never said they would definitely all disappear completely, I said 99.99% will disappear.. and that is true.. There are a lot more animals out there living because people eat meat and so they pay to give them land and have them fed, sorry, that is a factual statement I made that you can't disprove, you even agreed with me that there would be less. It's just that there would be significantly less, and you won't admit that.

You posted a picture of a guy who has an "animal sanctuary" that used to be a farm. That didn't answer my question at all. Who is paying for it? Where does the money come from? Sometimes people win the lottery or have extra money and they can do nice things like that, but it's not sustainable, not practical to have a bunch of farm animal sanctuaries all over the place.

I did answer that, go back and look at post #50.

As for your claim that 99.99% will not exist, that is your opinion, not a factual statement. It really comes down to us. If people begin to see farm animals in a different way, not as objects to be exploited and eaten, but as the sentient beings that they are, the same way we see dogs and cats… then there will be more sanctuaries, more companion animals, more people who want to see them living in safe, loving environments.

Your statement implied that we have to keep on eating them in order for them to exist, which is silly iyam.

[Swordsmyth]

@Swordsmyth I'm disappointed to learn you support torture.

I don't but lily throws that at everybody who eats meat so it isn't worth responding to

[dannno]

I did answer that, go back and look at post #50.

As for your claim that 99.99% will not exist, that is your opinion, not a factual statement. It really comes down to us. If people begin to see farm animals in a different way, not as objects to be exploited and eaten, but as the sentient beings that they are, the same way we see dogs and cats… then there will be more sanctuaries, more companion animals, more people who want to see them living in safe, loving environments.

Your statement implied that we have to keep on eating them in order for them to exist, which is silly iyam.

No, you didn't answer the question.. Where is the money coming from? Did he win the lottery? In other words, where did the guy get enough money that he could buy a farm, raise animals and not sell them for meat? A lot of people buy farms, raise animals, sell the meat and still go out of business. So you have yet to explain how this is a sustainable business model..

And for the fifth time, I NEVER said the animals would go out of existence completely, I said they 99.99% of them would go out of existence. Count the number of animal sanctuaries and pet goats that exist now, then count the number of animals being raised for slaughter and you will find 99.999% exist on a for-profit basis.