Trump says he will 'immediately' deport two to three million illegal immigrants with criminal

[Zippyjuan]

How many of those were founded by the children of British immigrants over 100 years ago? My point isn't that we shouldn't have immigration, it's that we should only allow desirable people to come here. Those of high intelligence and moral character.

http://www.inc.com/magazine/201502/a...n-america.html

The Most Entrepreneurial Group in America Wasn't Born in America

Immigrants now launch more than a quarter of U.S. businesses. All entrepreneurs should welcome reform that would make it easier for this class of strivers to stay--and succeed.

Risky? Yes. But increasingly, it is immigrant entrepreneurs like Cha who are most willing to take the risk of starting a business--and without the growth of immigrant-owned businesses like Cha's, the recession would have been much worse. From 1996 to 2011, the business startup rate of immigrants increased by more than 50 percent, while the native-born startup rate declined by 10 percent, to a 30-year low. Immigrants today are more than twice as likely to start a business as native-born citizens.

Despite accounting for only about 13 percent of the population, immigrants now start more than a quarter of new businesses in this country. Fast-growing ones, too--more than 20 percent of the 2014 Inc. 500 CEOs are immigrants. Immigrant-owned businesses pay an estimated $126 billion in wages per year, employing 1 in 10 Americans who work for private companies. In 2010, immigrant-owned businesses generated more than $775 billion in sales. If immigrant America were a stock, you'd be an idiot not to buy it.

[AuH20]

You really think the founders envisioned America being a multicultural country to which the whole world would come?

The founders escaped the madness of that world. They didn't want this chaos following them home. America was a Masonic experiment built to defy the monarchies of the day.

[misterx]

Youve never been on a jobsite. The material is garbage, and the material dictates the job.more than anything.

Actually I worked construction as a teenager. The material is garbage and the quality of the immigrant work is garbage too.

[BV2]

Well, I'm glad you won't be getting your wish anytime soon.

Nah, man, your just feeling someone else's glad.

[misterx]

http://www.inc.com/magazine/201502/a...n-america.html

Don't mention how it's easier for immigrants to get loans from the SBA.

[BV2]

Actually I worked construction as a teenager. The material is garbage and the quality of the immigrant work is garbage too.

You are SO FULL of it. If that were true, they wouldnt have sich success in the trades. Or are americans just too stupid to realize their roof is leaking?

[misterx]

You are SO FULL of it.

Ok. Go take a look at a house in one of these cookie cutter subdivisions that's going up.

[Zippyjuan]

At least you are finally recognizing that they have been productive and making positive contributions to the country and its economy meaning more jobs for more people. However, many are doing it with their own money: http://www.mbda.gov/pressroom/news-a...ital-others-do

Nearly 20 percent of immigrant-owned businesses started with $50,000 or more in startup capital, compared to 15.9 percent for non-immigrant-owned business. The study uses data from the 2007 U.S. Survey of Business Owners and the 1996-2010 Current Population Survey.

“Immigrant entrepreneurs are essential to our nation’s growth and economic prosperity,” said Chief Counsel for Advocacy Winslow Sargeant. “Immigrant entrepreneurs make our nation more competitive and serve as reminders of the American dream.”

The most common source of startup capital for immigrant-owned businesses is personal or family savings, with roughly two-thirds of businesses reporting this source of startup capital. Other commonly reported sources of startup capital by immigrant-owned businesses are credit cards, bank loans, personal or family assets, and home equity loans. Overall, the sources of startup capital used by immigrant-owned businesses do not differ substantially from those used by non-immigrant-owned firms.

More startup capital means a business has a better chance of surviving. It takes drive to give up your old life and move to a new country. And that same drive can be directed to creating jobs and businesses which they do- at higher rates than citizens who have fewer incentives to do so.

[Superfluous Man]

You really think the founders envisioned America being a multicultural country to which the whole world would come?

Who are "the founders"*? And what happened to the majority you mentioned in the post I was replying to?

For a century the US had free immigration, and there was no interference by "the majority," saying, "We do want people from this group, but we don't from that group."

That started happening in the 1880's IIRC, with the Chinese Exclusion Act, which was crlearly wrong.


*There's no group of "Founders" who all thought alike. But Jefferson definitely believed that the government should stay out of the way and allow different cultures to exist in the USA with equal rights.
http://press-pubs.uchicago.edu/found...ligions45.html

[misterx]

Who are "the founders"*? And what happened to the majority you mentioned in the post I was replying to?

For a century the US had free immigration, and there was no interference by "the majority," saying, "We do want people from this group, but we don't from that group."

That started happening in the 1880's IIRC, with the Chinese Exclusion Act, which was crlearly wrong.


*There's no group of "Founders" who all thought alike. But Jefferson definitely believed that the government should stay out of the way and allow different cultures to exist in the USA with equal rights.
http://press-pubs.uchicago.edu/found...ligions45.html

You're misconstruing my words again. For a century the US had immigration almost exclusively from Europe. Are you arguing we should go back to that?

[misterx]

At least you are finally recognizing that they have been productive and making positive contributions to the country and its economy meaning more jobs for more people. However, many are doing it with their own money: http://www.mbda.gov/pressroom/news-a...ital-others-do


More startup capital means a business has a better chance of surviving. It takes drive to give up your old life and move to a new country. And that same drive can be directed to creating jobs and businesses which they do- at higher rates than citizens who have fewer incentives to do so.

What is your point? Indians are more resourceful than Americans? Go live in India then.

[Zippyjuan]

Nah- lets send back all the Europeans and all their descendants as well. Might as well clean everybody out and start over. All foreign groups were considered invaders destroying the country at one point or another. The French. The British. The Irish. The Germans. The Italians. The Chinese. We always have been able to find some group we can blame our own mess on.

[Zippyjuan]

What is your point? Indians are more resourceful than Americans? Go live in India then.

White Europeans great? Go live in Europe then!

[misterx]

White Europeans great? Go live in Europe then!

I plan to retire to Lithuania.

[AuH20]

Who are "the founders"*? And what happened to the majority you mentioned in the post I was replying to?

For a century the US had free immigration, and there was no interference by "the majority," saying, "We do want people from this group, but we don't from that group."

That started happening in the 1880's IIRC, with the Chinese Exclusion Act, which was crlearly wrong.


*There's no group of "Founders" who all thought alike. But Jefferson definitely believed that the government should stay out of the way and allow different cultures to exist in the USA with equal rights.
http://press-pubs.uchicago.edu/found...ligions45.html

Not exactly. He actually warned everyone of what was coming.

https://captainjamesdavis.net/2014/0...nd-immigrants/

I have taken the term of four million and a half of inhabitants for example’s sake only. Yet I am persuaded it is a greater number than the country spoken of, considering how much inarable land it contains, can clothe and feed without a material change in the quality of their diet. But are there no inconveniences to be thrown into the scale against the advantage expected from a multiplication of numbers by the importation of foreigners?

It is for the happiness of those united in society to harmonize as much as possible in matters which they must of necessity transact together. Civil government being the sole object of forming societies, its administration must be conducted by common consent. Every species of government has its specific principles. Ours perhaps are more peculiar than those of any other in the universe. It is a composition of the freest principles of the English constitution, with others derived from natural right and natural reason. To these nothing can be more opposed than the maxims of absolute monarchies. Yet from such we are to expect the greatest number of emigrants.

They will bring with them the principles of the governments they leave, imbibed in their early youth ; or, if able to throw them off, it will be in exchange for an unbounded licentiousness, passing, as is usual, from one extreme to another. It would be a miracle were they to stop precisely at the point of temperate liberty. These principles, with their language, they will transmit to their children. In proportion to their numbers, they will share with us the legislation. They will infuse into it their spirit, warp and bias its directions, and render it a heterogenous, incoherent, distracted mass. I may appeal to experience, during the present contest, for a verification of these conjectures. But, if they be not certain in event, are they not possible, are they not probable ? Is it not safer to wait with patience twenty-seven years and three months longer, for the attainment of any degree of population desired or expected? May not our government be more homogeneous, more peaceable, more durable?

Suppose twenty millions of republican Americans thrown all of a sudden into France, what would be the condition of that kingdom? If it would be more turbulent, less happy, less strong, we may believe that the addition of half a million of foreigners to our present numbers would produce a similar effect here. If they come of themselves they are entitled to all the rights of citizenship ; but I doubt the expediency of inviting them by extraordinary encouragements. I mean not that these doubts should be extended to the importation of useful artificers. The policy of that measure depends on very different considerations. Spare no expense in obtaining them. They will after a while go to the plough and the hoe; but, in the mean time, they will teach us something we do not know.

It is not so in agriculture. The indifferent state of that among us does not proceed from a want of knowledge merely ; it is from our having such quantities of land to waste as we please. In Europe the object is to make the most of their land, labor being abundant; here it is to make the most of our labor, land being abundant.

Reference: Notes on Virginia: Query VIII by Thomas Jefferson

[Zippyjuan]

I plan to retire to Lithuania.

Good for you! Then you will be a foreigner. Hope they treat you better than some here treat foreigners.

[misterx]

Nah- lets send back all the Europeans and all their descendants as well. Might as well clean everybody out and start over. All foreign groups were considered invaders destroying the country at one point or another. The French. The British. The Irish. The Germans. The Italians. The Chinese. We always have been able to find some group we can blame our own mess on.

I'm not saying there isn't a certain subset of desirable immigrants. I'm saying that those are the only ones we should allow into the country, and the only ones among those already here that we should allow to stay. And as far as those desirable immigrants go, we should only allow them in as needed to fill jobs. It is a myth that we don't have enough Americans to fill tech jobs. Currently we don't need more Indians, or anyone else, coming in to depress wages.

[misterx]

Good for you! Then you will be a foreigner. Hope they treat you better than some here treat foreigners.

Considering my grandparents were nobility there, I share the same culture, and can contribute positively to their society - I think I'll be ok.

[Schifference]

[tod evans]

I'm not saying there isn't a certain subset of desirable immigrants. I'm saying that those are the only ones we should allow into the country, and the only ones among those already here that we should allow to stay. And as far as those desirable immigrants go, we should only allow them in as needed to fill jobs. It is a myth that we don't have enough Americans to fill tech jobs. Currently we don't need more Indians, or anyone else, coming in to depress wages.

Seems as though the people paying those wages would disagree with you, as would their stockholders.

You'd be well advised to steer clear of democratic talking points and stick to either logic or law. (The two do not always coincide)

[Superfluous Man]

Not exactly. He actually warned everyone of what was coming.

https://captainjamesdavis.net/2014/0...nd-immigrants/

This was taken right from your quote:

If they come of themselves they are entitled to all the rights of citizenship ; but I doubt the expediency of inviting them by extraordinary encouragements.

[Superfluous Man]

You're misconstruing my words again. For a century the US had immigration almost exclusively from Europe. Are you arguing we should go back to that?

I'm arguing that we should go back to the government having a hands off approach, and letting the chips fall where they may.

[misterx]

Seems as though the people paying those wages would disagree with you, as would their stockholders.

You'd be well advised to steer clear of democratic talking points and stick to either logic or law. (The two do not always coincide)

Obviously they would. The person shooting someone in the head would disagree with me about the need to shoot someone in the head, doesn't mean the government should let them do it.

[misterx]

I'm arguing that we should go back to the government having a hands off approach, and letting the chips fall where they may.

Yes, we all know what you want. A USA that is minority white, and filled with low-IQ savages.

[Superfluous Man]

Yes, we all know what you want. A USA that is minority white, and filled with low-IQ savages.

No, not specifically. But I see no reason to assign the government a role of resisting that either.

Somebody else's IQ won't have any affect on me. Nor will the color of their skin. So I don't see why I should care about it. I don't see why those things bother you so much.

[misterx]

No, not specifically. But I see no reason to assign the government a role of resisting that either.

Somebody else's IQ won't have any affect on me. Nor will the color of their skin. So I don't see why I should care about it. I don't see why those things bother you so much.

If you really don't think it has an effect on you, then perhaps you should move to Zimbabwe. You aren't a country of one, your quality of life is largely dependent on those around you. And when you know that would be the result of the policies you advocate, then you do advocate for that.

[tod evans]

Obviously they would. The person shooting someone in the head would disagree with me about the need to shoot someone in the head, doesn't mean the government should let them do it.

You've not ever seen me advocate for giving government the authority to "let" anybody do anything.

My position will remain that government $#@!s up more than it fixes and it costs too damn much for what ya' get.

As far as your cheap labor dilemma, government protection has permitted it...A smart person won't support such a government.

[misterx]

You've not ever seen me advocate for giving government the authority to "let" anybody do anything.

My position will remain that government $#@!s up more than it fixes and it costs too damn much for what ya' get.

As far as your cheap labor dilemma, government protection has permitted it...A smart person won't support such a government.

So your position is anarchy? When did the libertarian movement become just a bunch of anarchists?

[tod evans]

So your position is anarchy? When did the libertarian movement become just a bunch of anarchists?

And where did I type that?

Where have you found me claiming to be a libertarian for that matter?

If you want to advocate for more government XYZ then step up and justify your advocacy without trying to ascribe labels to me.

Copsuckery by any other name is still copsuckery...............Copsucker.

[misterx]

And where did I type that?

Where have you found me claiming to be a libertarian for that matter?

If you want to advocate for more government XYZ then step up and justify your advocacy without trying to ascribe labels to me.

Copsuckery by any other name is still copsuckery...............Copsucker.

Yeah, I like cops. They keep the streets safe. Get over it.