Boom. You can't out tariff us. Period. This Trump knows.

[Swordsmyth]

China Is at the Heart of Clinton's First Trip http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...021401382.html

I wonder if Theresa May has China connections.

[NorthCarolinaLiberty]

. I used the plural because I don't know how many Bolton interns run your account.

That's the best you can do? You get busted on your paid gig and then play Bart Simpson? Worse yet, you point the finger??!! No raise for you!

Pure comedy gold!!

[Swordsmyth]

US equity futures and offshore Yuan are getting a small bid after-hours following reports confirming President Trump asking USTR Lighthizer to prepare 25% tariffs on $200 billion of Chinese goods - but (positively?) extending the comment deadline from late-August to Sept 5th.
Full Statement:

U.S. Trade Representative Robert Lighthizer today released the following statement regarding further action under Section 301 of the Trade Act of 1974:
“On June 18, the President directed me to identify $200 billion worth of Chinese goods for additional tariffs at a rate of 10 percent, in response to China’s decision to cause further harm to U.S. workers, farmers, and businesses by imposing retaliatory duties on U.S. goods. I initiated this process on July 10.
“This week, the President has directed that I consider increasing the proposed level of the additional duty from 10 percent to 25 percent. The 25 percent duty would be applied to the proposed list of products previously announced on July 10.
“The Trump Administration continues to urge China to stop its unfair practices, open its market, and engage in true market competition. We have been very clear about the specific changes China should undertake. Regrettably, instead of changing its harmful behavior, China has illegally retaliated against U.S. workers, farmers, ranchers and businesses.
“The increase in the possible rate of the additional duty is intended to provide the Administration with additional options to encourage China to change its harmful policies and behavior and adopt policies that will lead to fairer markets and prosperity for all of our citizens.
“The United States has joined forces with like-minded partners around the world to address unfair trade practices such as forced technology transfer and intellectual property theft, and we remain ready to engage with China in negotiations that could resolve these and other problems detailed in our Section 301 report.”
Interested parties may address this possible increase in the level of the additional duty in their comments on the proposed action. The proposed list and process for the public notice and comment period is set out in the Federal Register notice issued on July 10 and published in the Federal Register on July 17. To view the July 17 notice, including the list of proposed products to be subject to additional duties, click here. In light of the possible increase of the additional duty rate to 25 percent, the close of the written comment period is extended from August 30 to September 5, and the due date for requests to appear at the public hearing is extended to August 13. These modifications to the comment period will be set out in a notice to be published shortly in the Federal Register.

As a reminder, the first wave of 25% tariffs on $34 billion of Chinese goods took effect last month, prompting immediate in-kind retaliation from China, and the next round on $16 billion could be implemented by the U.S. in the coming days or weeks.
Then, as Bloomberg reports, the administration last month released a list of thousands Chinese products it wants to slap with an additional 10% in tariffs, ranging from television components to handbags and seafood to baseball gloves. The duties could take effect after the administration draws up its revised, final list of imports following a public comment period.
Hearings are scheduled for Aug. 20 to 23 and the comment period has been extended to Sept. 5 from late August, according to the administration officials.
And that was enough to spark a relief rally of sorts...


It seems everyone just missed the fact that the Trump administration just confirmed that it is proposing raising planned taxes on $200 billion in Chinese imports to 25% from 10% , turning up the pressure on Beijing in a trade war between the world's two biggest economies.

More at: https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018-...-deadline-week

[phill4paul]

Lol. Time to hit them back. And Trump will. They will come to the table.

China is preparing to retaliate in the escalating trade war with tariffs on about $60 billion worth of U.S. goods.

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/08/03/chin...illion-in.html

Will feckless Americunts yell and scream for a cheap 52" T.V. lead to a U.S. tariff outcry from the House and recension before China gives in? Stay tuned.

[Swordsmyth]

It took little time for Trump's chief China trade war advisor Larry Kudlow to respond to China's publication of its "retaliation list" itemizing the $60 billion in US goods that will be subject to US tariffs. Saying that the $60 billion trade response by China might be weak, Kudlow warned that the US has more ammunition than China in a trade fight, envisioning that the US imports more products from China than vice versa.
Predictably, Kudlow focused on China's currency devaluation response as the trade war recently shifted to currency war as Beijing hopes to offset the impact of tariffs using a weaker currency.
Speaking on Bloomberg TV, Kudlow correctly noted that the yuan has fallen in part because China has "stopped defending the yuan. They think it’s going to help offset the U.S. efforts to get rid of their unfair trading." This changed on Friday evening (Chinese time) when the PBOC announced it would increase the reserve requirement on FX forward, precipitating a short squeeze and sending the Yuan sharply higher and the dollar sliding.

Some speculated that the PBOC move was a form of soft capital control, as the Yuan had fallen so much it had precipitated capital flight, easily the weakest link in China's economy. Kudlow touched on this, saying that "some of the currency fall though I think is just money leaving China because it’s a lousy investment, and if that continues that will really damage the Chinese economy."
"If money leaves China - and the currency could be a leading indicator - they’re going to be in a heap of trouble. And so I’m going to make the case that they are in a weak economic position. That’s not a good place for them to be vis-a-vis the trade negotiations," he told BBG TV's Jonathan Ferro.
It is not clear if this means that Kudlow - and thus Trump - finally understand that further tightening, and higher rates in the US, is a far worse for the Chinese economy, especially since China is about to post its first first half current account deficit on record which, without outside capital, it simply can't fund and the alternative would be economic contraction.


It does, however, explain why Wilbur Ross yesterday said that Trump plans to pour more pain on China's economy: after all if the Trump administration believes China is near a breaking point, it makes sense to keep cranking up the pressure.
Kudlow then made another accurate assessment of China's economic situation saying that "it looks to me like the China economy is declining in growth. It’s weakening almost across the board. And it looks like the People’s Bank of China is trying to pump it up by adding high-powered money and new credit."
And the punchline: "We’ve said many times: no tariffs, no tariff barriers, no subsidies. We want to see trade reforms. China is not delivering. Their economy’s weak, their currency is weak, people are leaving the country."
As a reminder, this is precisely the prescription suggested by One River CIO Eric Peters, who last weekend laid out what is the best way to win trade war with China:

“The best way to bring Beijing to its knees is by running a tight monetary policy in the US,” continued the same investor. “China has the world’s most overleveraged, fragile financial system.” In 2008, China’s total debt-to-GDP was 140%. It is now roughly 300%, while GDP is slowing. “The economy is held together by capital controls. If those fail, the whole system fails.” The capital flight in 2015/16 cost the government $1trln in reserves, and that was with ultra-dove Yellen in charge. Imagine what would have happened with Volcker at the helm. “The Chinese are dying to get their money out.”
“Engineering a decade of rolling Chinese financial crises would be the most effective foreign policy the US could run,” continued the same investor. Forget about the South China Sea, don’t bother with more aircraft carriers, just let Beijing try to cope with their financial system. “And we’re 80% of the way there – we instigated a trade war, implemented a massive fiscal stimulus, which created the room to raise interest rates,” he said. “The combined policy mix makes capital want to leave at the same time it makes the dollar more attractive and effectively shuts down new investment inflows to China.”

Kudlow's conclusion: China "better not underestimate President Trump’s determination to follow through" on trade threats, and we are confident that it is only a matter of time before Trump tweets his angry response to China's latest retaliation to Trump's own Chinese tariffs, pushing the tit-for-tat escalation further beyond a point of no return.

https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018-...-response-weak

[timosman]

How China’s Economic Aggression Threatens the Technologies and Intellectual Property of the United States and the World - https://www.whitehouse.gov/wp-conten....18.18-PDF.pdf

https://theconservativetreehouse.com...t-usa-v-china/

Today, the White House Office of Trade & Manufacturing Policy (OTMP) released a report outlining how China’s policies threaten the economic and national security of the United States.

OTMP studied how China seeks to capture, through its “Made in China 2025” plan, the emerging high-technology industries that will drive future economic growth. China is targeting industries ranging from artificial intelligence, aerospace, and augmented and virtual reality to high-speed rail and shipping and new energy vehicles. Many of these “Made in China 2025” industries have important defense applications.


OTMP outlines how China aggressively seeks to acquire American technology and intellectual property through multiple vectors including: physical and cyber theft, forced technology transfers, evading United States export controls, export restraints on raw materials, and investments in more than 600 high-technology assets in the United States worth close to $20 billion.

[Zippyjuan]

Tariffs will make us rich! "they will pay us vast sums of money in the form of Tariffs. We win either way" Except we don't win- the costs of tariffs are paid by US consumers and businesses, not foreign countries.

[phill4paul]

Except we don't win

Thanks Nancy for your opinion.

Except Trumps right. Either way we win.

[Swordsmyth]

Tariffs will make us rich! "they will pay us vast sums of money in the form of Tariffs. We win either way" Except we don't win- the costs of tariffs are paid by US consumers and businesses, not foreign countries.

If they lower their prices to keep their American sales then THEY pay the tariffs zip, if they don't then the industries and jobs will return to America.
Or they can agree to fair trade deals that let us sell things in their markets.

Any way WE win.

[Zippyjuan]

Thanks Nancy for your opinion.

Except Trumps right. Either way we win.

Three cheers for higher prices and fewer jobs! Winning!

[Swordsmyth]

U.S. President Donald Trump said on Saturday that his strategy of placing steep tariffs on imports of goods from China is "working far better than anyone ever anticipated," and that Beijing was talking to the United States about trade."Tariffs are working far better than anyone ever anticipated," Trump wrote on Twitter, citing losses in China's stock market as he predicted the U.S. market could "go up dramatically" once trade deals were renegotiated.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/trump-say...-business.html

[devil21]

U.S. President Donald Trump said on Saturday that his strategy of placing steep tariffs on imports of goods from China is "working far better than anyone ever anticipated," and that Beijing was talking to the United States about trade."Tariffs are working far better than anyone ever anticipated," Trump wrote on Twitter, citing losses in China's stock market as he predicted the U.S. market could "go up dramatically" once trade deals were renegotiated.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/trump-say...-business.html

Meanwhile, everyone else says there have been no contacts between US and Chinese officials on trade issues in quite some time. So who is telling the truth? Trump or everyone else?

[Zippyjuan]

Meanwhile, everyone else says there have been no contacts between US and Chinese officials on trade issues in quite some time. So who is telling the truth? Trump or everyone else?

No talks currently scheduled with the EU and NAFTA has bogged down. China threatening to add more tariffs. Tariffs higher than when he took office. Winning! Far better than anybody anticipated!

"Tariffs are working far better than anyone ever anticipated,

On the other hand, government revenues from tariffs are up.

[phill4paul]

Winning! Far better than anybody anticipated!

Glad your starting to come around.

[Swordsmyth]

Meanwhile, everyone else says there have been no contacts between US and Chinese officials on trade issues in quite some time. So who is telling the truth? Trump or everyone else?

50/50 odds.

[axiomata]

Glad your starting to come around.

At least Zippy is getting paid for his shilling. You're doing it for free!

[phill4paul]

At least Zippy is getting paid for his shilling. You're doing it for free!

And exactly what shilling, specifically, would that be?

[axiomata]

And exactly what shilling, specifically, would that be?

For cutting off our Trade with parts of the world:

For imposing Taxes on us without our Consent:

[phill4paul]

For cutting off our Trade with parts of the world:

For imposing Taxes on us without our Consent:

That would be the current trade agreements. The ones that need to be re-negotiated.

[Zippyjuan]

And exactly what shilling, specifically, would that be?

[Swordsmyth]

I though it might be the Brits that are paying you.

[Swordsmyth]

For cutting off our Trade with parts of the world:

Nothing is being cut off.

For imposing Taxes on us without our Consent:

He was elected and so were the Congressmen that delegated trade powers to the President so it isn't "Taxation without Representation".

[axiomata]

Nothing is being cut off.


He was elected and so were the Congressmen that delegated trade powers to the President so it isn't "Taxation without Representation".

Congress cannot delegate its constitutional power to tax to the president. If you buy the farce that they can in the name of national security, the idea that Canada is a threat to our security is complete bogus.

[Swordsmyth]

Congress cannot delegate its constitutional power to tax to the president. If you buy the farce that they can in the name of national security, the idea that Canada is a threat to our security is complete bogus.

The unconstitutionality lies at Congress' feet, the President is just doing the job they laid at his feet and won't take back even when they don't like how he is doing it.
Canada is a security threat when they act in cooperation with China to destroy our domestic steel industry.

[axiomata]

The unconstitutionality lies at Congress' feet, the President is just doing the job they laid at his feet and won't take back even when they don't like how he is doing it.
Canada is a security threat when they act in cooperation with China to destroy our domestic steel industry.

That's like saying the constitutionality of Obama's use of the Iraq AUMF to bomb Libya is only Congress' fault.

Canada does not cooperate with China, they compete with China on the steel market.

[devil21]

Congress cannot delegate its constitutional power to tax to the president. If you buy the farce that they can in the name of national security, the idea that Canada is a threat to our security is complete bogus.

If you read enough of Swordsmyth's posts it becomes clear that Swordsmyth basically wants Trump to be dictator.

Another angle to consider is: If Trump doesn't have constitutional or statutory authority to impose taxes, only Congress does and hasn't done it, then perhaps it's all bull$#@! and trade war/tariffs are only mass consumption cover stories for other things happening, like the dollar losing global reserve status and the effects that has on prices.

[Swordsmyth]

That's like saying the constitutionality of Obama's use of the Iraq AUMF to bomb Libya is only Congress' fault.

No, Congress did not willingly transfer permanent war powers to the President, it did do so with trade powers.

Canada does not cooperate with China, they compete with China on the steel market.

They do both.

[Intoxiklown]

You sell to us five to one. This is a WAR they will not win. They know they can't. But, they had to try. Now it is a matter of allowing them to "save face" and renegotiate.



https://www.politico.com/story/2018/...tariffs-708707

Bear in mind I skimmed some posts of this thread catching up (I've been on an "internet break" and doing some traveling with my family for several weeks), so if I say something that someone else already addressed pardon me.

The one thing that Trump has against him in this whole thing is when he returned from Beijing in May after they had put together a deal and had a "gentleman's handshake" sealing it, only to renege on it after some political pressure from the GOP. While it wasn't malicious or something akin to him lying to them, I saw a panel discussion (it's around 30 minutes, but I'll find it and link it if you care to see it) talking about this. One of the panel members was a guy named Victor Gao who has more titles than you'd believe. But to list a few, he's Chairman of China Energy Security Institute, VP for Center for China and Globalization, the director of the China National Association of International Studies, as well as an international relations analyst for the government. But he made a few comments that has me wondering if Trump can do what it will take to facilitate the talks.

The thing he (Gao) kept going back to was Trump changing his mind on what they understood to be an agreed upon deal. Basically, they took it as an insult. And more than once he made the statement that if it meant both the Chinese and the US economies crashing then so be it. Actually, I'll go ahead and link the panel under this because it's interesting (and I'll admit kind of funny) watching him talk. Because the more he goes on the more pissed he gets. I mean he's talking about forcing American companies out of China (he lists Ford, GM and Apple by name) as well as blocking any and all American access to the Chinese market citing how they are on track to be the dominant global market in the next 10 to 15 years. LOL....he's talking some real scorched earth stuff.

That's why I'm curious if Trump will do the simple thing required to salve their butt hurt and simply apologize to President Xi. Because I'm concerned Trump would react to that with the obvious, "Apologize for what? Nothing was signed yet, we were in the middle of talks". And while he'd be right, that has nothing to do with those little bastards feeling insulted. If you've ever been to Asia you understand what I'm talking about. If you haven't....lol, ask someone you know who has. It's hard for westerners who've never been to an Asian nation to fully grasp, but insulting them (even done inadvertently) gets the same reaction from them that you'd experience if someone walked up and slapped your wife and spit in your child's face in front of you....haha.

It's definitely interesting watching both China and the US move their pieces around the board. One of the things that is really giving Trump's tariffs some sting is the fact that production costs in China are probably higher than most people think due to the rise of China's middle class which is also causing a rise in salaries. China is working to counter this with investments in Africa. They're basically buying UN votes by investing in those nations (which I know that's the same thing the US does), but those investments give them a twofold return as they are using that African labor for a cheap resource much as we did to China.



This is that panel discussion.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZLZZaVgNUTY

[Swordsmyth]

Bear in mind I skimmed some posts of this thread catching up (I've been on an "internet break" and doing some traveling with my family for several weeks), so if I say something that someone else already addressed pardon me.

The one thing that Trump has against him in this whole thing is when he returned from Beijing in May after they had put together a deal and had a "gentleman's handshake" sealing it, only to renege on it after some political pressure from the GOP. While it wasn't malicious or something akin to him lying to them, I saw a panel discussion (it's around 30 minutes, but I'll find it and link it if you care to see it) talking about this. One of the panel members was a guy named Victor Gao who has more titles than you'd believe. But to list a few, he's Chairman of China Energy Security Institute, VP for Center for China and Globalization, the director of the China National Association of International Studies, as well as an international relations analyst for the government. But he made a few comments that has me wondering if Trump can do what it will take to facilitate the talks.

The thing he (Gao) kept going back to was Trump changing his mind on what they understood to be an agreed upon deal. Basically, they took it as an insult. And more than once he made the statement that if it meant both the Chinese and the US economies crashing then so be it. Actually, I'll go ahead and link the panel under this because it's interesting (and I'll admit kind of funny) watching him talk. Because the more he goes on the more pissed he gets. I mean he's talking about forcing American companies out of China (he lists Ford, GM and Apple by name) as well as blocking any and all American access to the Chinese market citing how they are on track to be the dominant global market in the next 10 to 15 years. LOL....he's talking some real scorched earth stuff.

That's why I'm curious if Trump will do the simple thing required to salve their butt hurt and simply apologize to President Xi. Because I'm concerned Trump would react to that with the obvious, "Apologize for what? Nothing was signed yet, we were in the middle of talks". And while he'd be right, that has nothing to do with those little bastards feeling insulted. If you've ever been to Asia you understand what I'm talking about. If you haven't....lol, ask someone you know who has. It's hard for westerners who've never been to an Asian nation to fully grasp, but insulting them (even done inadvertently) gets the same reaction from them that you'd experience if someone walked up and slapped your wife and spit in your child's face in front of you....haha.

It's definitely interesting watching both China and the US move their pieces around the board. One of the things that is really giving Trump's tariffs some sting is the fact that production costs in China are probably higher than most people think due to the rise of China's middle class which is also causing a rise in salaries. China is working to counter this with investments in Africa. They're basically buying UN votes by investing in those nations (which I know that's the same thing the US does), but those investments give them a twofold return as they are using that African labor for a cheap resource much as we did to China.



This is that panel discussion.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZLZZaVgNUTY

The Chinese wield their pride like a weapon, their goal has always been to destroy us and they won't agree to anything that won't unless they are forced to, if they refuse to blink then we may suffer some but we will come out on the other side stronger and without China as a threat, they will no longer be a threat because they will collapse.

[Zippyjuan]

If you read enough of Swordsmyth's posts it becomes clear that Swordsmyth basically wants Trump to be dictator.

Another angle to consider is: If Trump doesn't have constitutional or statutory authority to impose taxes, only Congress does and hasn't done it, then perhaps it's all bull$#@! and trade war/tariffs are only mass consumption cover stories for other things happening, like the dollar losing global reserve status and the effects that has on prices.

He just likes to promote things which cause conflict. Trade wars. Immigration.