Your thoughts on tobacco

[Objectivist]

No offense, but there are worse things in food than in cigarettes. I wouldn't mind pooling the risk with other people like me - who eat organic food, workout at least 3 times a week and so on.

On the other hand, stop acting like ciggs aren't bad.

Yeah like Uranium and Thorium are in food along with every other trace element that is naturally occurring.

[zach]

What a few have said before, we all die no matter what.

How we choose to live our lives and possibly die is up to us.
Smoking constantly, eating $#@!ty food constantly, drinking constantly, and even staying depressed and upset constantly can take a toll on the body, thus rendering it worse than if nothing ever happened.

Using tobacco (or regular cigarettes) in moderation, like anything else, will most likely kill you in the same way that drinking in moderation will.. in my opinion, anyway. Though I think smoking tobacco by itself would do less damage than a normal cigarette would.

Though, if addiction has gotten a hold of you, and your diet sucks, then you can see the physical and mental changes that take place, and why some people hate the mere mention of smoking.

[Anti Federalist]

and why some people hate the mere mention of smoking.

It approaches religious zealotry.

In fact, in many ways it's worse, just look at some of the comments above from MRS and Objectivist.

The petty wailings of narrow minded Puritans with penis envy.

[Paulitical Correctness]

It approaches religious zealotry.

In fact, in many ways it's worse, just look at some of the comments above from MRS and Objectivist.

The petty wailings of narrow minded Puritans with penis envy.

I used to be that way, so I know the elitist attitude very well. I lost many friends because they drank and/or smoked and I thought I was "above" it or some such nonsense.

[brandon]

Bah, I question the gross exaggerations of smoking related deaths and illness.

Yea I agree. My grandfather recently died at the age of 89, he was a smoker his whole life. My other grandfather is still alive and smoked for the majority of his life.

My dad smoked for like 20 years before quitting and he's very healthy at the age of 62.

I've been smoking for about a decade and feel totally fine.

Sure, it's not good for you, but it's not as bad as modern American society makes it out to be.

And the claims about second hand smoke are laughable.

[TGGRV]

Yeah like Uranium and Thorium are in food along with every other trace element that is naturally occurring.

Your point being? We shouldn't eat either? :P I wonder how much you'll stay alive with that. Organic food is 100 times healthier than the other crap.

It's amusing to me that people are against smoking and then go to eat at KFC - food full of neurotoxins and trans fats.

[Anti Federalist]

I used to be that way, so I know the elitist attitude very well. I lost many friends because they drank and/or smoked and I thought I was "above" it or some such nonsense.

So did I, for a while.

I had watched some good people die from drug abuse and for some time I was a committed zealot in the "drug war".

It took some time to "get my head right" and recognize my own projections of self aggrandizement into the whole argument.

I now look, with a great degree of skepticism, at anyone who makes such arrogant and off the cuff remarks at somebody else's "poison of choice".

[Cowlesy]

I smoked a cohiba esplendido last night and thoroughly enjoyed it.

Yes it was bad for me, but then again, stressing about work is also bad for me. On the other hand, I think relaxing and enjoying a fine cigar is worth it. Life is too short to dot every "i" and cross every "t".

[Anti Federalist]

I smoked a cohiba esplendido last night and thoroughly enjoyed it.

Yes it was bad for me, but then again, stressing about work is also bad for me. On the other hand, I think relaxing and enjoying a fine cigar is worth it. Life is too short to dot every "i" and cross every "t".

Idiot.

Douchebag.

[zach]

I don't think I've had a sense of "elitism" on smoking, but it was more of a sense of feeling sorry for those addicted to the nicotine. However, I did take pride in not using cigarettes for the longest time. But I wanted to find out how one could enoy such a thing and maybe to understand how addiction can take place. Eventually, I bought a pack of the American Spirit brand, and now I enoy one occasionally. I can also understand how one can get addicted to these.

[DapperDan]

I figured some of the "elitistm" stems from either personal experiences from it like family dying or what not. /shrug

[Objectivist]

Your point being? We shouldn't eat either? :P I wonder how much you'll stay alive with that. Organic food is 100 times healthier than the other crap.

It's amusing to me that people are against smoking and then go to eat at KFC - food full of neurotoxins and trans fats.

Yeah why would anyone be against smoking when the taxes pay for so many government programs that would have come out of my pockets otherwise.

Ahhhh I ran 5 in 40 today so I'm flying high.

[pcosmar]

When I think about the amount of Xylene , Toluene, Methyl ethyl ketone. and various Urethanes I have absorbed over the years. And add to that the PCBs, DDT, and Dioxins I grew up with, I am not all that concerned with tobacco.
I also like real Butter and red meat.

p.s. I eat bondo for breakfast.

[Kraig]

Yeah why would anyone be against smoking when the taxes pay for so many government programs that would have come out of my pockets otherwise.

Ahhhh I ran 5 in 40 today so I'm flying high.

So you're okay with stealing from people as long as they have what you consider to be a bad habit??

Too bad smoking didn't kill off Ayn Rand before she created her own following of think they know everything morons.

[Jeremy]

Sure they are, when you compile the stats like this:

Doctor: "You are dying of lung cancer, have you ever smoked?"

Patient: "My god...well yes, for a few years when I was in my 30s, but I quit 20 years ago".

Doctor marks on his file: smoker.

Patient dies, death gets chalked up as "smoking related".

Seen the same thing done with "drunk driving" stats as well.

Guy gets creamed in an intersection by someone, who is sober, that runs a red light.

Victim, who did absolutely nothing wrong, had alcohol in his system.

Alcohol related fatality.

You are just making assumptions. Besides, it's not like the average person who gets lung cancer is a factory worker or something.

[DapperDan]

Doctor's can make assumptions from it. I would agree that smoking can cause cancer but there can be so many other factors to go with it.

btw for the smokers in the thread....the Dunhill anniversary blends are great. Got the orange box one, may never go back to american made again

[Kotin]

You are just making assumptions. Besides, it's not like the average person who gets lung cancer is a factory worker or something.

sorry, but he is right.


there are so many other factors to take into account that simply are not.

of course smoking isnt good for you.. especially regular chemical-ridden cigs.. but the amount of deaths attributed is ridiculous..


its a very,very easy scapegoat.

[Cowlesy]

When I think about the amount of Xylene , Toluene, Methyl ethyl ketone. and various Urethanes I have absorbed over the years. And add to that the PCBs, DDT, and Dioxins I grew up with, I am not all that concerned with tobacco.
I also like real Butter and red meat.

p.s. I eat bondo for breakfast.

PCO you are always reliable for a post that gets me laughing

[Anti Federalist]

You are just making assumptions. Besides, it's not like the average person who gets lung cancer is a factory worker or something.

No, I am not making assumptions.

I have seen, first hand, deaths associated with lung disease that were, at the very least, partially caused by exposure to blue asbestos.

That's the bad kind, the kind that will kill you, the kind that was used almost exclusively for one purpose: fire and heat protection on ships.

And I have seen that lung disease chalked up to smoking, even when, in one case, the person had quit smoking 20 years prior.

I am working right now with another man, who was exposed to Agent Orange and contracted "black lung" from coal mining before and after his military service, but his lung disease will be chalked up to smoking.

And I'm not making assumptions about teh drunken driving part either. I have the cases right in front of me that happened locally.

[Dojo]

Cigarette smuggling finances 'terrorist' groups: report


AFP/File – Cigarette and tobacco smuggling is financing militant or extremist groups such as the Pakistani Taliban …

Mon Jun 29, 12:53 pm ET

GENEVA (AFP) – Cigarette and tobacco smuggling finances militant groups such as the Pakistani Taliban and saps about 40 billion dollars a year from government budgets, a report and campaigners said Monday.

The claims were made as 160 countries resumed talks at the World Health Organisation on expanding an international anti-smoking treaty to clamp down on the illicit trade in tobacco.

Apart from issues such as enforcement and coordination, the 10-day preparatory negotiations are also examining a possible halt to duty free sales of cigarettes or measures against Internet sales, WHO documents showed.

An alliance of some 350 anti-tobacco campaign groups said in a statement that concerted action against the contraband and counterfeit cigarettes trade would far outweigh the 40.5 billion dollars in lost tax revenue.

Some 11.6 percent of the global cigarette market was illicit, equivalent to some 657 billion cigarettes a year, the International Union Against Tobacco and Lung Disease estimated in a report.

Citing enforcement officials, other researchers also alleged that "half a dozen terrorist" or militant groups rely on black market tobacco and smuggling for revenue.

They included the Pakistani Taliban, Al-Qaeda in the Islamic Maghreb, Hezbollah, leftwing FARC rebels in Colombia, the Real IRA in Northern Ireland, and a Tutsi rebel group in the Democratic Republic of Congo.

"We believe that tobacco has been second only to drugs as a source of finance to the Pakistani Taliban," David Kaplan, editorial director of the US-based Center for Public Integrity, told journalists.

His body's report also highlighted "smuggling hubs" in China, Paraguay and Ukraine, where either illegally produced counterfeits or contraband excess production from legal factories were fuelling black markets around the world.

It estimated that 80 percent of counterfeit cigarettes in the European Union and 99 percent of those sold on US streets were among the estimated 400 billion made illegally every year in China.

"Renegade factories, multinational companies and weak enforcement all play a role in fuelling this massive illegal trade, whose profits rival those of narcotics," said Bill Buzenberg, executive director of the Center.

Legitimate cigarette factories in Ukraine helped feed a two billion dollar black market in the European Union, according to the report.

"Ukraine... is overproducing and flooding the market," said one of the authors, Marina Walker Guevara.

Meanwhile, plants in Paraguay produce 20 times what can be consumed in the country, and local officials estimated that some 90 percent of output -- one billion dollars -- disappeared into the black market, especially in South America.

The report was produced by the center's International Consortium of Investigative Journalists, backed by the Johns Hopkins School of Public Health in Washington.

The WHO negotiations are aimed at expanding the 2003 Framework Convention on Tobacco Control, that strengthened measures against smoking, possibly next year.

One of the measures being considered is a ban, or restrictions, on duty free sales that are "often diverted into illicit trade," according to official reports for the meeting.

They concluded that there would be no legal obstacles to such a ban, while a "track and trace" system on tobacco to prevent contraband was "feasible".

[werdd]

Cigarette smuggling finances 'terrorist' groups: report


AFP/File – Cigarette and tobacco smuggling is financing militant or extremist groups such as the Pakistani Taliban …

Mon Jun 29, 12:53 pm ET

GENEVA (AFP) – Cigarette and tobacco smuggling finances militant groups such as the Pakistani Taliban and saps about 40 billion dollars a year from government budgets, a report and campaigners said Monday.

The claims were made as 160 countries resumed talks at the World Health Organisation on expanding an international anti-smoking treaty to clamp down on the illicit trade in tobacco.

Apart from issues such as enforcement and coordination, the 10-day preparatory negotiations are also examining a possible halt to duty free sales of cigarettes or measures against Internet sales, WHO documents showed.

An alliance of some 350 anti-tobacco campaign groups said in a statement that concerted action against the contraband and counterfeit cigarettes trade would far outweigh the 40.5 billion dollars in lost tax revenue.

Some 11.6 percent of the global cigarette market was illicit, equivalent to some 657 billion cigarettes a year, the International Union Against Tobacco and Lung Disease estimated in a report.

Citing enforcement officials, other researchers also alleged that "half a dozen terrorist" or militant groups rely on black market tobacco and smuggling for revenue.

They included the Pakistani Taliban, Al-Qaeda in the Islamic Maghreb, Hezbollah, leftwing FARC rebels in Colombia, the Real IRA in Northern Ireland, and a Tutsi rebel group in the Democratic Republic of Congo.

"We believe that tobacco has been second only to drugs as a source of finance to the Pakistani Taliban," David Kaplan, editorial director of the US-based Center for Public Integrity, told journalists.

His body's report also highlighted "smuggling hubs" in China, Paraguay and Ukraine, where either illegally produced counterfeits or contraband excess production from legal factories were fuelling black markets around the world.

It estimated that 80 percent of counterfeit cigarettes in the European Union and 99 percent of those sold on US streets were among the estimated 400 billion made illegally every year in China.

"Renegade factories, multinational companies and weak enforcement all play a role in fuelling this massive illegal trade, whose profits rival those of narcotics," said Bill Buzenberg, executive director of the Center.

Legitimate cigarette factories in Ukraine helped feed a two billion dollar black market in the European Union, according to the report.

"Ukraine... is overproducing and flooding the market," said one of the authors, Marina Walker Guevara.

Meanwhile, plants in Paraguay produce 20 times what can be consumed in the country, and local officials estimated that some 90 percent of output -- one billion dollars -- disappeared into the black market, especially in South America.

The report was produced by the center's International Consortium of Investigative Journalists, backed by the Johns Hopkins School of Public Health in Washington.

The WHO negotiations are aimed at expanding the 2003 Framework Convention on Tobacco Control, that strengthened measures against smoking, possibly next year.

One of the measures being considered is a ban, or restrictions, on duty free sales that are "often diverted into illicit trade," according to official reports for the meeting.

They concluded that there would be no legal obstacles to such a ban, while a "track and trace" system on tobacco to prevent contraband was "feasible".

How is it illegal if they can produce the same product for much cheaper?

Proof that taxes create black markets. There are black markets here in the US right now. There are folks smuggling cigarettes from missourri where they are 4 bucks a pack to New York where they are now 13 dollars.

[Sandman33]

Cigs are 13 bucks a pack in NY?!?!? REALLY?

[tfurrh]

No mention of snuff or chew? I don't know if I could live without Copenhagen. Texas just upped the legal age for tobacco to 21. Stupid.




I remember one night just for kicks I put a dip in one side, a chew in the other. At the same time I smoked a cigarette held in one hand, and puffed an al Capone from the other. All while sipping a cold one. Probably the best night of my life.

Everyone has a vice. I'm glad mine's tobacco.... some have much worse ones to deal with.

[tfurrh]

Tobacco + mint should be illegal though. Menthols/wintergreen. Gag/why?

[Anti Federalist]

Make Tobacco Legal Again.

[Suzanimal]

Tobacco + mint should be illegal though. Menthols/wintergreen. Gag/why?

Nasty. I love the soft mints and I enjoy the occasional smoke but why anyone would like the two mixed is beyond me. I got stuck with a Newport a few weeks ago and almost gagged.

[Anti Globalist]

I've never used any tobacco products ever.

[5Points]

Government PSAs aside, smoking tobacco to get nicotine is horrible...absolutely horrible. Nicotine, even in vape form, is a meaningless addiction. Why even get on the cycle of needing a foreign substance to keep you satisfied? When you are just fine without it?

If you want to quit smoking, smoke hemp flower. There's no nicotine, and the cannabinoids are good for your health and anxiety.