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Liberty is lost through complacency and a subservient mindset. When we accept or even welcome automobile checkpoints, random searches, mandatory identification cards, and paramilitary police in our streets, we have lost a vital part of our American heritage. America was born of protest, revolution, and mistrust of government. Subservient societies neither maintain nor deserve freedom for long.
Ron Paul 2004
Registered Ron Paul supporter # 2202
It's all about Freedom
____________
An Agorist Primer ~ Samuel Edward Konkin III (free PDF download)
The End of All Evil ~ Jeremy Locke (free PDF download)
Liberty is lost through complacency and a subservient mindset. When we accept or even welcome automobile checkpoints, random searches, mandatory identification cards, and paramilitary police in our streets, we have lost a vital part of our American heritage. America was born of protest, revolution, and mistrust of government. Subservient societies neither maintain nor deserve freedom for long.
Ron Paul 2004
Registered Ron Paul supporter # 2202
It's all about Freedom
____________
An Agorist Primer ~ Samuel Edward Konkin III (free PDF download)
The End of All Evil ~ Jeremy Locke (free PDF download)
Liberty is lost through complacency and a subservient mindset. When we accept or even welcome automobile checkpoints, random searches, mandatory identification cards, and paramilitary police in our streets, we have lost a vital part of our American heritage. America was born of protest, revolution, and mistrust of government. Subservient societies neither maintain nor deserve freedom for long.
Ron Paul 2004
Registered Ron Paul supporter # 2202
It's all about Freedom
So "minimal" is good. Got it.
Tell me, when will there be a time, permitted by the CONstitution, where we won't have to pay any tax if we don't want to, and Fed/State.gov will "allow" people to have machine guns and hand grenades again? You know, to beat up those LEO who like to kill first even when the person isn't harming person or property?
Last edited by PAF; 09-20-2022 at 01:10 PM.
____________
An Agorist Primer ~ Samuel Edward Konkin III (free PDF download)
The End of All Evil ~ Jeremy Locke (free PDF download)
____________
An Agorist Primer ~ Samuel Edward Konkin III (free PDF download)
The End of All Evil ~ Jeremy Locke (free PDF download)
Well let's not forget that half the people here joined in the chorus of admonishing and ridiculing them, for specifics I'm not going to get into here, because I know how quickly it would derail the thread.
About that little insurrection . . .
Last edited by nobody's_hero; 09-20-2022 at 01:22 PM.
T.S. Eliot's The Hollow Men
"One of the penalties for refusing to participate in politics is that you end up being governed by your inferiors." - Plato
We Are Running Out of Time - Mini Me
Originally Posted by Philhelm
____________
An Agorist Primer ~ Samuel Edward Konkin III (free PDF download)
The End of All Evil ~ Jeremy Locke (free PDF download)
Liberty is lost through complacency and a subservient mindset. When we accept or even welcome automobile checkpoints, random searches, mandatory identification cards, and paramilitary police in our streets, we have lost a vital part of our American heritage. America was born of protest, revolution, and mistrust of government. Subservient societies neither maintain nor deserve freedom for long.
Ron Paul 2004
Registered Ron Paul supporter # 2202
It's all about Freedom
I am with @pcosmar. I have heard all the crap before, I listened to the first 5 minutes, I am just not interested.
“The spirits of darkness are now among us. We have to be on guard so that we may realize what is happening when we encounter them and gain a real idea of where they are to be found. The most dangerous thing you can do in the immediate future will be to give yourself up unconsciously to the influences which are definitely present.” ~ Rudolf Steiner
____________
An Agorist Primer ~ Samuel Edward Konkin III (free PDF download)
The End of All Evil ~ Jeremy Locke (free PDF download)
Liberty is lost through complacency and a subservient mindset. When we accept or even welcome automobile checkpoints, random searches, mandatory identification cards, and paramilitary police in our streets, we have lost a vital part of our American heritage. America was born of protest, revolution, and mistrust of government. Subservient societies neither maintain nor deserve freedom for long.
Ron Paul 2004
Registered Ron Paul supporter # 2202
It's all about Freedom
That uncodified, vague sentiment is from the DoI, not the CON. Unlike the state constititions and the AoC, the CON did not respect the states as sovereign entities. The First Amendment was a shot across the bow. The First Amendment prohibits the Congress from making a law "respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof". Therefore most state constitutions were made irrelevant to the federal body right form the get-go. To consider how the CON differed in its First Amendment from the states, see these links:
https://investortimes.com/freedomout...n-state-level/
http://restore-christian-america.org/statechurches.html
"When Sombart says: "Capitalism is born from the money-loan", I should like to add to this: Capitalism actually exists only in the money-loan;" - Theodor Fritsch
____________
An Agorist Primer ~ Samuel Edward Konkin III (free PDF download)
The End of All Evil ~ Jeremy Locke (free PDF download)
Even within the so-called “liberty movement” telling people the truth tends to piss them off, apparently.
Larkin is right.
The CONstitution was a Federalist coup. The only part of it worth the parchment it was written on is the Bill of Rights, and even that has been grossly insufficient to the purpose of securing liberty.
We either seize and hold our liberty as truly free people or we don’t. CONstitutions don’t secure liberty. People determined to be free do that. Clinging to the fantasy of the CONstitution just gets in the way and produces no useful progress toward the goal of being free.
Chris
"Government ... does not exist of necessity, but rather by virtue of a tragic, almost comical combination of klutzy, opportunistic terrorism against sitting ducks whom it pretends to shelter, plus our childish phobia of responsibility, praying to be exempted from the hard reality of life on life's terms." Wolf DeVoon
"...Make America Great Again. I'm interested in making American FREE again. Then the greatness will come automatically."Ron Paul
T.S. Eliot's The Hollow Men
"One of the penalties for refusing to participate in politics is that you end up being governed by your inferiors." - Plato
We Are Running Out of Time - Mini Me
Originally Posted by Philhelm
Ron PaulThere is nothing to fear from globalism, free trade and a single worldwide currency, but a globalism where free trade is competitively subsidized by each nation, a continuous trade war is dictated by the WTO, and the single currency is pure fiat, fear is justified. That type of globalism is destined to collapse into economic despair, inflationism and protectionism and managed by resurgent militant nationalism.
Congressional Record (March 13, 2001)
____________
An Agorist Primer ~ Samuel Edward Konkin III (free PDF download)
The End of All Evil ~ Jeremy Locke (free PDF download)
Yeah, and as far as I can tell, you being an agorist has changed nothing about the existence of the United States Government. —Which, incidentally, has been my point this entire thread.
The moment you use force, particularly any form of organized force, even if only for the purpose to defend your rights, you have formed a de facto government. And you wouldn't even need a constitution to do it.
Last edited by nobody's_hero; 09-20-2022 at 01:53 PM.
T.S. Eliot's The Hollow Men
"One of the penalties for refusing to participate in politics is that you end up being governed by your inferiors." - Plato
We Are Running Out of Time - Mini Me
Originally Posted by Philhelm
Those that support (via their vote) a system of governance that doesn't allow for one to opt out of (no longer consent to) and remain on the land of their birth , refuse to recognize they are in part, imposing their collective will on others with no moral foundation from which to do so....Why won't you let me be free?
You’re apparently missing the point.
There’s no need to “get rid of it.” It’s been a dead letter from the word “go” anyway. The ink hadn’t even fully dried on the parchment before the Federalist usurpers started violating their precious CONstitution.
As Spooner correctly noted it was either intended from the start to produce the monstrosity of a government that we’ve got, or it was powerless to prevent it. Either way it certainly does not deserve the reverence and worship bordering on zealotry that CONstitution lovers so generously heap upon it. We either face reality and act in accordance with it, or we let comforting fantasy render us ineffectual. I choose the former.
Chris
"Government ... does not exist of necessity, but rather by virtue of a tragic, almost comical combination of klutzy, opportunistic terrorism against sitting ducks whom it pretends to shelter, plus our childish phobia of responsibility, praying to be exempted from the hard reality of life on life's terms." Wolf DeVoon
"...Make America Great Again. I'm interested in making American FREE again. Then the greatness will come automatically."Ron Paul
Read @mt4rp and @CCTelander responses above. They get +REP.
@nobody's_hero, you are thinking and putting too much thought and energy into collectiveness. Think and act as a sovereign individual, perhaps.
____________
An Agorist Primer ~ Samuel Edward Konkin III (free PDF download)
The End of All Evil ~ Jeremy Locke (free PDF download)
Liberty is lost through complacency and a subservient mindset. When we accept or even welcome automobile checkpoints, random searches, mandatory identification cards, and paramilitary police in our streets, we have lost a vital part of our American heritage. America was born of protest, revolution, and mistrust of government. Subservient societies neither maintain nor deserve freedom for long.
Ron Paul 2004
Registered Ron Paul supporter # 2202
It's all about Freedom
We're just talking past each other.
As the Texan often sarcastically (but correctly) points out, collectivism is unavoidable. If for example, you have a bunch of individuals who all collectively agree that the rights of the individual should not be violated, well that creates somewhat of conundrum doesn't it? It's like, do you want to be part of that group or . . .lol.
The thing is, you're going to need a group like that if a (usually much larger) collective of people who hold absolute disdain for the rights of the individual shows up at your door, if you have any hope of resistance. And that, kids, is how baby governments are made.
Last edited by nobody's_hero; 09-20-2022 at 02:06 PM.
T.S. Eliot's The Hollow Men
"One of the penalties for refusing to participate in politics is that you end up being governed by your inferiors." - Plato
We Are Running Out of Time - Mini Me
Originally Posted by Philhelm
PAF we agree on a lot but agorism and praxeology are not among them. You should consider the ironies of your position. When you have a materialist midset, that is restrictive and not applicable to the human soul in its totality. The human soul is imbued by God with a desire for more than materialism and man cannot be reduced to biological causes. Also, it is inherent in the human nature to collectivise and form groups, not only for the acclimation of basic needs but for comraderie and cultural spirit. Agorism is a self-defeating principle on the macro level. All societies need laws because humans are a fallen creature. There is no absolute freedom in this world except in our hearts as we contemplate and experience the Spirit and long for the restoration of all things.
"When Sombart says: "Capitalism is born from the money-loan", I should like to add to this: Capitalism actually exists only in the money-loan;" - Theodor Fritsch
One doesn't need "government" to form groups of voluntarists. I doubt very much a bunch of leftists, or rightists will bang on my door, and if they did, I can defend myself, and if not, I know enough people who would stand by my side.
But then, like Larken truthfully states, who has Stole, Murdered and Conquered more than all of the individual criminals in this world put together? Yep - Government. So why on earth would I want said Government to solve my problems for me?
____________
An Agorist Primer ~ Samuel Edward Konkin III (free PDF download)
The End of All Evil ~ Jeremy Locke (free PDF download)
No, actually, it isn’t.
An agreement to VOLUNTARILY cooperate for our mutual defense is the very farthest thing from a government imaginable. For it to become a government a small group of it’s members would have to be given authority to coerce everyone else into or out of certain otherwise allowable behaviors against their will. Since no such thing is necessary or desirable to provide for mutual defense, no government ever need come into being.
Chris
"Government ... does not exist of necessity, but rather by virtue of a tragic, almost comical combination of klutzy, opportunistic terrorism against sitting ducks whom it pretends to shelter, plus our childish phobia of responsibility, praying to be exempted from the hard reality of life on life's terms." Wolf DeVoon
"...Make America Great Again. I'm interested in making American FREE again. Then the greatness will come automatically."Ron Paul
I understand some of the points that you make, so respectfully we will agree to disagree. I can only speak for myself, and maybe offer an alternative for what might work for others as well. I can tell you that Agorism isn't an overnight lesson. It takes thought, practice and a willingness to weight Risk-versus-Reward which eventually becomes a way of life. For me personally it has worked out tremendously well and I will never go back. Everybody's life is different, with different sets of circumstances. One thing is certain - truth, NAP (unless in self-defense) and a desire to make ones own path should always be promoted and never stifled. What other people choose to do, that's on them.
____________
An Agorist Primer ~ Samuel Edward Konkin III (free PDF download)
The End of All Evil ~ Jeremy Locke (free PDF download)
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