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Thread: The End of the All-Male, All-White Cockpit

  1. #1

    The End of the All-Male, All-White Cockpit

    The End of the All-Male, All-White Cockpit

    https://www.amren.com/news/2022/04/t...white-cockpit/

    Niraj Chokshi, New York Times, April 23, 2022

    It’s been a half-century since airlines started hiring women and people of color to fly passenger planes, allowing a handful of pioneering pilots into the flight deck.

    In the decades since, commercial aviation has grown exponentially, democratizing travel and rewiring how Americans live, work and play. But one part of the industry has remained mostly the same. Piloting is stubbornly monolithic: About 95 percent of airline pilots in the U.S. today are male. Nearly as many are white.

    Zakiya Percy is one of a small and growing number of people trying to change that. {snip}

    {snip}

    Now, Ms. Percy, who is Black and a first-generation college graduate, expects to have her airline pilot’s license within a year, bringing her a step closer to that goal.

    For many like Ms. Percy, piloting has long been or seemed out of reach. Few women and people of color aspire to fly planes because they rarely see themselves in today’s flight decks. The cost of training and the toll of discrimination can be discouraging, too. Now there’s urgency for the industry to act. Pilots are in short supply, and if airlines want to make the most of the thriving recovery from the pandemic, they will have to learn to foster lasting change.

    {snip}

    Airlines have started to do more to diversify. United recently launched a flight school with the aim of hiring thousands of pilots in the years ahead, at least half of them women or people of color. Other carriers have launched similar initiatives, too. The goal is to staff up to meet the industry’s aspirations.

    {snip}

    As air travel became more popular in the 1970s and 1980s, airline advertisements almost exclusively depicted pilots as white men, with some exceptions in publications directed at Black consumers, said Alan Meyer, a history professor at Auburn University who is working on a book on the slow pace of racial integration in airline flight decks.

    “It just continues to reinforce this image,” Dr. Meyer said. “This simultaneously plays into this often subconscious association between whiteness and maleness and technical competence.”

    There were few Black pilots at the time, in part because airlines had only recently started hiring them. Marlon Green, a former Air Force pilot, became the first after winning a discrimination case before the Supreme Court in 1963, forcing Continental Air Lines to make him an offer. The Civil Rights Act of 1964 banned such discrimination outright, but insidious forms of prejudice have long remained. A decade later, Frontier Airlines hired Emily Howell Warner, making her the first woman hired permanently to command the cockpit for a major American passenger airline.

    Undisguised bigotry was common. Ms. Warner once recalled a co-pilot refusing to shake her hand and instructing her not to touch anything in the flight deck. David Harris, a trailblazing Black pilot hired by American Airlines at about the same time that Mr. Green got his job, recalled having to bite his tongue as a white co-pilot unleashed a “nasty” tirade days after the assassination of the Rev. Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.

    Airlines felt little pressure, from consumers or anyone else, to make it a more hospitable work environment. And because piloting jobs were well-paid and people generally stayed in them for years, those early firsts didn’t give way to broader change.

    {snip}

    Two years and about $100,000. That’s what it takes, in most cases, to gather the experience necessary to qualify to become a commercial airline pilot.

    {snip}

    Historically, the armed forces offered a less-expensive path into the field. But the military has long struggled with pilot diversity and shortages, too. Still, the Air Force has slowly improved diversity among active duty pilots: Today, about 8 percent of those pilots are women and about 13 percent are nonwhite. While nowhere near reflective of the American public, those figures are still better than the numbers for commercial airlines.

    But the reason for racial inequality among pilots that is most commonly cited by experts and instructors is perhaps the most apparent: A lack of role models and exposure has played a central role in keeping many women and people of color out the field.

    “Historically, we’ve seen that a lot of our aviators come out of the military or have family members that were pilots or are somehow involved in the industry,” said Allison McKay, the chief executive of Women in Aviation International. “If you don’t have either of those two things, you may not even have considered flying.”

    The group is working to change that. Every year, the nonprofit hosts an annual “Girls in Aviation Day,” with events around the world connecting pilots and other aviation professionals with children and students. The Organization of Black Aerospace Professionals and groups representing other underrepresented groups, including Latinos or the L.G.B.T.Q. community, are making similar efforts to expose more people to the field.

    {snip}

    The Aviate Academy covers 28 acres and has two pools, two aircraft maintenance hangars, five dorms and 27 planes, with dozens more on order. It is owned by United, which bought the flight training school in 2020, and is part of the airline’s goal of hiring 5,000 pilots by 2030. Airline-owned schools are common abroad, but United’s is a first for a large U.S. airline. The carrier says it wants at least half of the new pilots to be women or people of color. Of the 121 students enrolled so far, about 78 percent are women or nonwhite, the airline said.

    United’s school joins other efforts from major and regional carriers. In 2018, American launched a partnership with flight schools in Arizona, Florida and Texas, offering prospective pilots training, financing and mentoring, with an eye toward diversity. Alaska Airlines and its regional partner, Horizon Air, unveiled a similar program in March. Universities with flight training programs are working harder to recruit women and people of color, and many have launched scholarships for students from underrepresented communities.

    Major U.S. airlines say they’re confident that they will be able to hire the pilots they need in the years ahead. But regional carriers that supply many of those airlines with flights and pilots are already struggling.
    “It is not true that all creeds and cultures are equally assimilable in a First World nation born of England, Christianity, and Western civilization. Race, faith, ethnicity and history leave genetic fingerprints no ‘proposition nation’ can erase." -- Pat Buchanan



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  3. #2
    Eventually all white people will be banned from working and it'll be minorities that will be doing all the work.
    "Perhaps one of the most important accomplishments of my administration is minding my own business."

    Calvin Coolidge

  4. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Globalist View Post
    Eventually all white people will be banned from working and it'll be minorities that will be doing all the work.
    I'll be dipped...
    “It is not true that all creeds and cultures are equally assimilable in a First World nation born of England, Christianity, and Western civilization. Race, faith, ethnicity and history leave genetic fingerprints no ‘proposition nation’ can erase." -- Pat Buchanan

  5. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post
    I'll be dipped...
    My funny eyeball kept me out of the pilot seat.

    but this could explain being Blackballed for my last ten good working years.
    Liberty is lost through complacency and a subservient mindset. When we accept or even welcome automobile checkpoints, random searches, mandatory identification cards, and paramilitary police in our streets, we have lost a vital part of our American heritage. America was born of protest, revolution, and mistrust of government. Subservient societies neither maintain nor deserve freedom for long.
    Ron Paul 2004

    Registered Ron Paul supporter # 2202
    It's all about Freedom

  6. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by pcosmar View Post
    My funny eyeball kept me out of the pilot seat.

    but this could explain being Blackballed for my last ten good working years.
    I had a few years left in me, but the government called me a climate criminal and was threatening my bosses and maybe even me with prison.

    That and an injury made me Go Galt.

    And now diesel fuel is approaching $10 a gallon in some spots.
    “It is not true that all creeds and cultures are equally assimilable in a First World nation born of England, Christianity, and Western civilization. Race, faith, ethnicity and history leave genetic fingerprints no ‘proposition nation’ can erase." -- Pat Buchanan

  7. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post
    I had a few years left in me, but the government called me a climate criminal and was threatening my bosses and maybe even me with prison.

    That and an injury made me Go Galt.

    And now diesel fuel is approaching $10 a gallon in some spots.
    well,,This is happening.

    1776 Restoration Movement


    years ago,,the bank screwed my account just as Vacation happened,, Grateful Dead at Alpine Valley.

    A friend said,,you can be broke here or broke there,, but there is a party going on there.
    Liberty is lost through complacency and a subservient mindset. When we accept or even welcome automobile checkpoints, random searches, mandatory identification cards, and paramilitary police in our streets, we have lost a vital part of our American heritage. America was born of protest, revolution, and mistrust of government. Subservient societies neither maintain nor deserve freedom for long.
    Ron Paul 2004

    Registered Ron Paul supporter # 2202
    It's all about Freedom

  8. #7
    If I were ever to see I had a female pilot, I'd be like... I'll take the next flight thx
    It's all about taking action and not being lazy. So you do the work, whether it's fitness or whatever. It's about getting up, motivating yourself and just doing it.
    - Kim Kardashian

    Donald Trump / Crenshaw 2024!!!!

    My pronouns are he/him/his

  9. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by TheTexan View Post
    If I were ever to see I had a female pilot, I'd be like... I'll take the next flight thx
    I, for one, refuse to fly if there is not a non-binary, one eyed, Esperanto speaking lesbian of color flying the plane. It's by far the most important consideration when choosing a pilot.
    "Foreign aid is taking money from the poor people of a rich country, and giving it to the rich people of a poor country." - Ron Paul
    "Beware the Military-Industrial-Financial-Pharma-Corporate-Internet-Media-Government Complex." - B4L update of General Dwight D. Eisenhower
    "Debt is the drug, Wall St. Banksters are the dealers, and politicians are the addicts." - B4L
    "Totally free immigration? I've never taken that position. I believe in national sovereignty." - Ron Paul

    Proponent of real science.
    The views and opinions expressed here are solely my own, and do not represent this forum or any other entities or persons.



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  11. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    I, for one, refuse to fly if there is not a non-binary, one eyed, Esperanto speaking lesbian of color flying the plane. It's by far the most important consideration when choosing a pilot.
    I suppose, fiery plane crash, isn't one of the worst ways to go out

    (Is it possible to be non-binary and lesbian? )
    It's all about taking action and not being lazy. So you do the work, whether it's fitness or whatever. It's about getting up, motivating yourself and just doing it.
    - Kim Kardashian

    Donald Trump / Crenshaw 2024!!!!

    My pronouns are he/him/his

  12. #10
    I was harshly scolded when i was in the navy many years ago for calling a cockpit a cockpit because females were offended by the term even back then. Sexual harassment charges and all. Hypersensitive bull$#@!.

    The appropriate term is a Flight Control Station.

    naa $#@! that

    The appropriate term is a $#@!ing COCKPIT.
    1776 > 1984

    The FAILURE of the United States Government to operate and maintain an
    Honest Money System , which frees the ordinary man from the clutches of the money manipulators, is the single largest contributing factor to the World's current Economic Crisis.

    The Elimination of Privacy is the Architecture of Genocide

    Belief, Money, and Violence are the three ways all people are controlled

    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    Our central bank is not privately owned.

  13. #11
    Posted without comment.











    9/11 Thermate experiments

    Winston Churchhill on why the U.S. should have stayed OUT of World War I

    "I am so %^&*^ sick of this cult of Ron Paul. The Paulites. What is with these %^&*^ people? Why are there so many of them?" YouTube rant by "TheAmazingAtheist"

    "We as a country have lost faith and confidence in freedom." -- Ron Paul

    "It can be a challenge to follow the pronouncements of President Trump, as he often seems to change his position on any number of items from week to week, or from day to day, or even from minute to minute." -- Ron Paul
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    The road to hell is paved with good intentions. No need to make it a superhighway.
    Quote Originally Posted by osan View Post
    The only way I see Trump as likely to affect any real change would be through martial law, and that has zero chances of success without strong buy-in by the JCS at the very minimum.

  14. #12
    More posts without comment:



    Well I guess one comment. Seems that Donald Trump is in on white pilot replacement.

    9/11 Thermate experiments

    Winston Churchhill on why the U.S. should have stayed OUT of World War I

    "I am so %^&*^ sick of this cult of Ron Paul. The Paulites. What is with these %^&*^ people? Why are there so many of them?" YouTube rant by "TheAmazingAtheist"

    "We as a country have lost faith and confidence in freedom." -- Ron Paul

    "It can be a challenge to follow the pronouncements of President Trump, as he often seems to change his position on any number of items from week to week, or from day to day, or even from minute to minute." -- Ron Paul
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    The road to hell is paved with good intentions. No need to make it a superhighway.
    Quote Originally Posted by osan View Post
    The only way I see Trump as likely to affect any real change would be through martial law, and that has zero chances of success without strong buy-in by the JCS at the very minimum.

  15. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Globalist View Post
    Eventually all white people will be banned from working and it'll be minorities that will be doing all the work.
    We’re right on the brink nod that now. According to the article they’ve whittled us down to where whites now make up a mere 95 percent of commercial pilots.

  16. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Invisible Man View Post
    We’re right on the brink nod that now. According to the article they’ve whittled us down to where whites now make up a mere 95 percent of commercial pilots.
    You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Invisible Man again.

    I see what you did there.
    9/11 Thermate experiments

    Winston Churchhill on why the U.S. should have stayed OUT of World War I

    "I am so %^&*^ sick of this cult of Ron Paul. The Paulites. What is with these %^&*^ people? Why are there so many of them?" YouTube rant by "TheAmazingAtheist"

    "We as a country have lost faith and confidence in freedom." -- Ron Paul

    "It can be a challenge to follow the pronouncements of President Trump, as he often seems to change his position on any number of items from week to week, or from day to day, or even from minute to minute." -- Ron Paul
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    The road to hell is paved with good intentions. No need to make it a superhighway.
    Quote Originally Posted by osan View Post
    The only way I see Trump as likely to affect any real change would be through martial law, and that has zero chances of success without strong buy-in by the JCS at the very minimum.

  17. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Invisible Man View Post
    We’re right on the brink nod that now. According to the article they’ve whittled us down to where whites now make up a mere 95 percent of commercial pilots.
    Quote Originally Posted by jmdrake View Post
    You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Invisible Man again.

    I see what you did there.
    So you guys are OK with people being moved out or passed over employment positions based on their skin color?
    “It is not true that all creeds and cultures are equally assimilable in a First World nation born of England, Christianity, and Western civilization. Race, faith, ethnicity and history leave genetic fingerprints no ‘proposition nation’ can erase." -- Pat Buchanan

  18. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post
    So you guys are OK with people being moved out or passed over employment positions based on their skin color?
    I don't have strong opinions about it either way, depending on the circumstances. But whatever you think about it, it shouldn't be made out to be a bigger thing than it is. This is not white genocide.
    There is nothing to fear from globalism, free trade and a single worldwide currency, but a globalism where free trade is competitively subsidized by each nation, a continuous trade war is dictated by the WTO, and the single currency is pure fiat, fear is justified. That type of globalism is destined to collapse into economic despair, inflationism and protectionism and managed by resurgent militant nationalism.
    Ron Paul
    Congressional Record (March 13, 2001)



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  20. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Invisible Man View Post
    I don't have strong opinions about it either way, depending on the circumstances.
    I don't either because it's pretty much a moot issue anyways.

    It will be automated in another 20 years or so.

    Pilots already are no longer required or even allowed to make rapid cognitive decisions, fly at a basic skill level "hands on", take bold action or, God forbid, fly by the seat of their pants. Individual action is frowned upon. You are a button pusher and soon to be just a monitor, there in case something goes horribly wrong with the systems those buttons and computers are controlling.

    But even that is pretty much a dead issue, as the recent 737 MAX crashes proved: too many pilots can no longer fly when the $#@! hits the fan and the "systems" stop working.

    Which explains why somebody like United can afford to fill their cockpits with a bunch of wokeness...it doesn't really matter any more.

    But it still chaps my ass to know that in New AmeriKa, my son has less of a chance of becoming a professional pilots and my daughter has a much greater chance at the same career, not because one is a better, more competent pilot than the other, but because of their gender.

    But whatever you think about it, it shouldn't be made out to be a bigger thing than it is. This is not white genocide.
    Yeah, I keep getting told that...unless I'm being told the opposite, that I'm the greatest threat to my own country that exists, and I need to be wiped out.

    That'll likely be the last thing I hear before the bullet.

    "This is not an assault!"

    Last edited by Anti Federalist; 06-04-2022 at 08:02 AM.
    “It is not true that all creeds and cultures are equally assimilable in a First World nation born of England, Christianity, and Western civilization. Race, faith, ethnicity and history leave genetic fingerprints no ‘proposition nation’ can erase." -- Pat Buchanan

  21. #18
    I'm tired of wading in on this issue, as I have lived it.

    In my airline days, I never met a person that had a problem with a POC, female, h0m0, whatever, working in the cockpit as long as they were qualified and competent.

    Qualified and competent is the rub.

    Almost always, these people were initially hired way above their actual experience level.....ie, paying your dues in the industry.

    Some people work hard and come up to speed. If you don't come up to speed and are not in a protected class, you are discarded, not only in initial training, but at any time in your career. It is not unheard of for a pilot, who has been with the company for many years, to fail an routine checkride and be terminated for it.

    Everybody in the industry knows, and people in management and training departments will tell you on the sly, that protected class crew members are treated differently and do not have to meet performance standards. Whether they require more hours in the simulator, which is incredibly expensive, or simply pencil-whipping them into satisfactory performance on the paperwork, they remain employed whereas, a non-protected class crew member would be terminated.

    Everybody in the cockpit knows the score. Many of these people come up to speed and can hold their own. But they feel the same subconscious heat as those that have been passed along. I think that this creates very defensive personalities and these personalities are spring-loaded to seize upon any wrong word or slip of the tongue to make constant workplace complaints.

    I'm tired of this industry, and AF gets it spot-on with his predictions of further automation and eventual obsolescence.

    Thirty years ago, I was trained and flew the most automated airliner in the industry. One of my company's best instructors told me that when he met with the Aerospatiale engineers, they said that their goal then was to incorporate as much automation as they could get away with to compensate for a progressively less experienced and frankly more stupid pilot, because they were going to be marketing heavily in the developing world, for a nice way to put it.

    It works the same for marketing into the devolving world as well.
    Last edited by sparebulb; 06-04-2022 at 10:44 AM.

  22. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by sparebulb View Post
    I'm tired of this industry, and AF gets it spot-on with his predictions of further automation and eventual obsolescence.
    I am living/have lived the exact same same thing in the maritime trades and understand perfectly.

    You spend a lifetime perfecting a skill, something to be proud of, just to have it taken all away and all you're left to be proud about is how deviant of a sexual pervert you can be.
    “It is not true that all creeds and cultures are equally assimilable in a First World nation born of England, Christianity, and Western civilization. Race, faith, ethnicity and history leave genetic fingerprints no ‘proposition nation’ can erase." -- Pat Buchanan

  23. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post
    So you guys are OK with people being moved out or passed over employment positions based on their skin color?
    So you're okay with making a straw man argument? Apparently so. For fvcks sake man this argument was already had back in the 1940s with the Tuskegee Airman. They needed a chance to prove that blacks were just as capable of flying as white and they proved it in spades! What keeps blacks from being pilots today? How many have $100,000 which, according to YOUR article, is what it takes just to get started? If you read into your own articles what isn't there, that's not my fault. It's like when you read "They're going to give Fs to white kids and not blacks" into an article that didn't say that at all. I tell you what. If you need me to I'll rent you a copy of the HBO Tuskegee Airman movie as well as Red Tails so you can watch it tonight. And I'll throw in the History Channel documentary on top of it.
    9/11 Thermate experiments

    Winston Churchhill on why the U.S. should have stayed OUT of World War I

    "I am so %^&*^ sick of this cult of Ron Paul. The Paulites. What is with these %^&*^ people? Why are there so many of them?" YouTube rant by "TheAmazingAtheist"

    "We as a country have lost faith and confidence in freedom." -- Ron Paul

    "It can be a challenge to follow the pronouncements of President Trump, as he often seems to change his position on any number of items from week to week, or from day to day, or even from minute to minute." -- Ron Paul
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    The road to hell is paved with good intentions. No need to make it a superhighway.
    Quote Originally Posted by osan View Post
    The only way I see Trump as likely to affect any real change would be through martial law, and that has zero chances of success without strong buy-in by the JCS at the very minimum.

  24. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post
    I don't either because it's pretty much a moot issue anyways.

    It will be automated in another 20 years or so.

    Pilots already are no longer required or even allowed to make rapid cognitive decisions, fly at a basic skill level "hands on", take bold action or, God forbid, fly by the seat of their pants. Individual action is frowned upon. You are a button pusher and soon to be just a monitor, there in case something goes horribly wrong with the systems those buttons and computers are controlling.

    But even that is pretty much a dead issue, as the recent 737 MAX crashes proved: too many pilots can no longer fly when the $#@! hits the fan and the "systems" stop working.

    Which explains why somebody like United can afford to fill their cockpits with a bunch of wokeness...it doesn't really matter any more.

    But it still chaps my ass to know that in New AmeriKa, my son has less of a chance of becoming a professional pilots and my daughter has a much greater chance at the same career, not because one is a better, more competent pilot than the other, but because of their gender.



    Yeah, I keep getting told that...unless I'm being told the opposite, that I'm the greatest threat to my own country that exists, and I need to be wiped out.

    That'll likely be the last thing I hear before the bullet.

    "This is not an assault!"

    Yeah. Some time traveler must have gone back to the 1940s and installed fly by wire into the cockpits of the P51 Mustangs flown by the Tuskegee Airmen. I mean there's no way some black pilots back then could have shot down white master race pilots flying jets.



    /sarcasm
    9/11 Thermate experiments

    Winston Churchhill on why the U.S. should have stayed OUT of World War I

    "I am so %^&*^ sick of this cult of Ron Paul. The Paulites. What is with these %^&*^ people? Why are there so many of them?" YouTube rant by "TheAmazingAtheist"

    "We as a country have lost faith and confidence in freedom." -- Ron Paul

    "It can be a challenge to follow the pronouncements of President Trump, as he often seems to change his position on any number of items from week to week, or from day to day, or even from minute to minute." -- Ron Paul
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    The road to hell is paved with good intentions. No need to make it a superhighway.
    Quote Originally Posted by osan View Post
    The only way I see Trump as likely to affect any real change would be through martial law, and that has zero chances of success without strong buy-in by the JCS at the very minimum.

  25. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by jmdrake View Post
    Yeah. Some time traveler must have gone back to the 1940s and installed fly by wire into the cockpits of the P51 Mustangs flown by the Tuskegee Airmen. I mean there's no way some black pilots back then could have shot down white master race pilots flying jets.



    /sarcasm
    Not to take anything away from the TA, they were oustanding pilots no doubt.

    The fact of the matter is that the P51 was, in a number of ways, a superior fighter.

    Lighter and more maneuverable than the Me262, it was jet fighter tech in it's infancy, while the P51 was the ne plus ultra of propeller driven fighters.

    The Me262 suffered from a number of design flaws that hampered it's effectiveness a great deal.
    “It is not true that all creeds and cultures are equally assimilable in a First World nation born of England, Christianity, and Western civilization. Race, faith, ethnicity and history leave genetic fingerprints no ‘proposition nation’ can erase." -- Pat Buchanan

  26. #23
    Yeah, the Messerschmitt 262 was strictly an interceptor. Any pilot in one of those who didn't run away from an enemy fighter was a shizakampf who deserved what he invariably got.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    You only want the freedoms that will undermine the nation and lead to the destruction of liberty.

  27. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by jmdrake View Post
    So you're okay with making a straw man argument? Apparently so. For fvcks sake man this argument was already had back in the 1940s with the Tuskegee Airman. They needed a chance to prove that blacks were just as capable of flying as white and they proved it in spades! What keeps blacks from being pilots today? How many have $100,000 which, according to YOUR article, is what it takes just to get started? If you read into your own articles what isn't there, that's not my fault. It's like when you read "They're going to give Fs to white kids and not blacks" into an article that didn't say that at all. I tell you what. If you need me to I'll rent you a copy of the HBO Tuskegee Airman movie as well as Red Tails so you can watch it tonight. And I'll throw in the History Channel documentary on top of it.
    I'm speculating here, but I think that the sterling record of the Tuskegee pilots was rooted in that they screened for the best of the best of a large, untapped pool of talent.

    I'm also speculating that the training standards were inflexible and perhaps more grueling than for the average flight program.

    Along with tough, inflexible standards comes the lack of boo-hoo when someone gets washed out.

    Lastly, these men were not selected above their experience level......there was very little to no prior experience level in wartime pilot recruitment....there is only pre-existing aptitude. There are many more flight slots than candidates in wartime. Civilian aviation always has limited slots vs demand for people wanting jobs. Abandoning merit-based hiring into these positions creates a tremendous amount of animosity.
    Last edited by sparebulb; 06-05-2022 at 08:02 AM.



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  29. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by sparebulb View Post
    I'm speculating here, but I think that the sterling record of the Tuskegee pilots was rooted in that they screened for the best of the best of a large, untapped pool of talent.

    I'm also speculating that the training standards were inflexible and perhaps more grueling than for the average flight program.

    Along with tough, inflexible standards comes the lack of boo-hoo when someone gets washed out.

    Lastly, these men were not selected above their experience level......there was very little to no prior experience level in wartime pilot recruitment....there is only pre-existing aptitude. There are many more flight slots than candidates in wartime. Civilian aviation always has limited slots vs demand for people wanting jobs. Abandoning merit-based hiring into these positions creates a tremendous amount of animosity.
    Nowhere in the article was there any hint or suggestion of eliminating merit based hiring. Nowhere. If you think that the $100,000 price tag to get into commercial flying isn't artificially limiting a potentially large untapped pool of talent then you are kidding yourself.
    9/11 Thermate experiments

    Winston Churchhill on why the U.S. should have stayed OUT of World War I

    "I am so %^&*^ sick of this cult of Ron Paul. The Paulites. What is with these %^&*^ people? Why are there so many of them?" YouTube rant by "TheAmazingAtheist"

    "We as a country have lost faith and confidence in freedom." -- Ron Paul

    "It can be a challenge to follow the pronouncements of President Trump, as he often seems to change his position on any number of items from week to week, or from day to day, or even from minute to minute." -- Ron Paul
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    The road to hell is paved with good intentions. No need to make it a superhighway.
    Quote Originally Posted by osan View Post
    The only way I see Trump as likely to affect any real change would be through martial law, and that has zero chances of success without strong buy-in by the JCS at the very minimum.

  30. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by jmdrake View Post
    Nowhere in the article was there any hint or suggestion of eliminating merit based hiring. Nowhere. If you think that the $100,000 price tag to get into commercial flying isn't artificially limiting a potentially large untapped pool of talent then you are kidding yourself.
    Believe it or not, $100,000 for a training program that has the potential to hire into a company that has automatic flow to a mainline airline is the best deal going in aviation outside of getting into military flight school.

    I doubt that there are many young people writing checks for the whole enchilada. The link below indicates that financing is available and payments are deferred as long as the participant is making satisfactory progress. Seems to me that cost is not a barrier.

    If I cared more, I would call one of the airline recruitment academies to see what is available to POC's, but just check out this link http://www.aacadetacademy.com/CadetAcademy/Index

  31. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by TheTexan View Post
    If I were ever to see I had a female pilot, I'd be like... I'll take the next flight thx
    I can assure you from my research that female pilots are the best of the best. Please watch the new documentary Top Gun Maverick.
    The wisdom of Swordy:

    On bringing the troops home
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    They are coming home, all the naysayers said they would never leave Syria and then they said they were going to stay in Iraq forever.

    It won't take very long to get them home but it won't be overnight either but Iraq says they can't stay and they are coming home just like Trump said.

    On fighting corruption:
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Trump had to donate the "right way" and hang out with the "right people" in order to do business in NYC and Hollyweird and in order to investigate and expose them.
    Fascism Defined

  32. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Todd View Post
    I can assure you from my research that female pilots are the best of the best. Please watch the new documentary Top Gun Maverick.
    Or Episodes 7-9 of Star Wars.

    I was able to suspend disbelief enough watching those movies to play along with the female lead being a better pilot and light saber fighter than her male counterparts.

    But I drew the line with her also being better at reading a map.
    There is nothing to fear from globalism, free trade and a single worldwide currency, but a globalism where free trade is competitively subsidized by each nation, a continuous trade war is dictated by the WTO, and the single currency is pure fiat, fear is justified. That type of globalism is destined to collapse into economic despair, inflationism and protectionism and managed by resurgent militant nationalism.
    Ron Paul
    Congressional Record (March 13, 2001)

  33. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by sparebulb View Post
    Believe it or not, $100,000 for a training program that has the potential to hire into a company that has automatic flow to a mainline airline is the best deal going in aviation outside of getting into military flight school.

    I doubt that there are many young people writing checks for the whole enchilada. The link below indicates that financing is available and payments are deferred as long as the participant is making satisfactory progress. Seems to me that cost is not a barrier.

    If I cared more, I would call one of the airline recruitment academies to see what is available to POC's, but just check out this link http://www.aacadetacademy.com/CadetAcademy/Index
    I just went through all this with my daughter who had a slight interest in an aviation career but really could not cultivate the desire in her to commit to it, which is probably a good thing in the long run.

    $100,000 is on the pricey side, but more than likely is what a four year degree program combined with flight training and a an ATP ticket at the end of it all, would cost. Think Embry-Riddle or similar programs or schools.

    I came up with a price tag of about $60,000 and a time frame of 18 months by going through an outfit like American Flyers or something similar... @Matt Collins was doing this, I don't know how far he got, but that would get you the training and flight time to apply and get accepted to one of the regionals.

    For comparison, $100,000 is what you'll pay to go through one of the Merchant Marine academies in the US. There are seven IIRC, the US Merchant Marine Academy at Kings Point, New York Maritime Academy, Massachusetts Maritime Academy, Maine Maritime Academy (the best of the bunch I think), Texas Maritime Academy at Texas A&M Galveston, The Great Lakes Maritime Academy, and Cal-Tech Maritime Academy at Oxnard.

    You come away from that with a Third Mate's ticket, and a B of S degree. But you'll be another 20 years or more building time and seniority before becoming a captain, if ever, each step from Third, to Second to Chief Mate to Master is years of sea time, more training and more testing.

    They tried their damndest to "diversify" as well, including playing fast and loose with testing and training standards, but soon found out that most didn't want to spend the rest of their lives as sea to pursue that path, less so than even the young white men, who usually drop out of deep water sailing after about ten years or so.

    I spent 40 years at it, held a "Master Mariner" ticket (until the UN changed the rules and would not allow it anymore), worked every ocean on the globe, and it pretty much broke me.

    Point is though, these training costs are not out of line, nor were they put into place to keep poor blacks and woman out of the field. Flying training planes and sailing training ships, building simulators for both and hiring competent training staff ain't cheap.

    And is that really where we want to skimp in the name of "diversity"?

    In the training of people flying jets and transporting millions of barrels of oil?

    Last edited by Anti Federalist; 06-06-2022 at 11:23 AM.
    “It is not true that all creeds and cultures are equally assimilable in a First World nation born of England, Christianity, and Western civilization. Race, faith, ethnicity and history leave genetic fingerprints no ‘proposition nation’ can erase." -- Pat Buchanan

  34. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by jmdrake View Post
    Nowhere in the article was there any hint or suggestion of eliminating merit based hiring. Nowhere. If you think that the $100,000 price tag to get into commercial flying isn't artificially limiting a potentially large untapped pool of talent then you are kidding yourself.
    Of course not...nobody is ever going to come right out and say it.

    But it will happen, because it is happening...sparebulb's a pilot and saw it first hand, so did danke and so have I in my line of work.

    Standards will be lowered or fudged or pencil whipped so that a "diversity" box gets checked.

    And years ago you could make the case that somebody would die as a result.

    But now, like I noted, it's a moot point...there are no "pilots" anymore.
    “It is not true that all creeds and cultures are equally assimilable in a First World nation born of England, Christianity, and Western civilization. Race, faith, ethnicity and history leave genetic fingerprints no ‘proposition nation’ can erase." -- Pat Buchanan

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