Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast
Results 31 to 60 of 76

Thread: Apple, Google, Twitter, Facebook Sued for Leftist Bias and Conservative Censorship

  1. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    But MugBook does post the content submitted to it
    Only in the mechanical sense that their servers handle the uploads.

    No employee reviews anything 99.9999999999999999999999999999999% of the time.

    and if they take subjective control of what content they post then any content that does get posted and doesn't get removed has been approved by virtue of not being disapproved
    I'm aware of your assertion that any amount of moderation makes for liability for everything posted.

    I'm not aware of any argument for why this should be the case.

    ...other than that it leads to your desired result in the particular case of facebook.

    they are supervising all the content both proactively and reactively.
    No, in fact they aren't.

    Virtually nothing is supervised by a human being.

    Software tries to locate and weed out certain kinds of content: e.g. porn.

    FB's control of its users' content is not remotely similar to, e.g., the NYT's control of its content (every word of which is reviewed by a person).



  2. Remove this section of ads by registering.
  3. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by r3volution 3.0 View Post
    Only in the mechanical sense that their servers handle the uploads.

    No employee reviews anything 99.9999999999999999999999999999999% of the time.



    I'm aware of your assertion that any amount of moderation makes for liability for everything posted.

    I'm not aware of any argument for why this should be the case.

    ...other than that it leads to your desired result in the particular case of facebook.



    No, in fact they aren't.

    Virtually nothing is supervised by a human being.

    Software tries to locate and weed out certain kinds of content: e.g. porn.

    FB's control of its users' content is not remotely similar to, e.g., the NYT's control of its content (every word of which is reviewed by a person).
    They not only do have employees actively supervising content but they have AI doing so (as you pointed out) and even if we discount both of those they have a reporting system which they use to supervise content reactively.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment



  4. Remove this section of ads by registering.
  5. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    They not only do have employees actively supervising content but they have AI doing so (as you pointed out) and even if we discount both of those they have a reporting system which they use to supervise content reactively.
    All of that amounts to a minimal moderation, given the astounding volume of content posted per second on that dumpster fire.

    In any event, in my view, it doesn't matter at all, in itself, how much they're moderating.

    My point is that they should be liable only for the content which they in fact have moderated: consciously approved.

    ...ala the editor-in-chief of the NYT who okays a story.

    The idea of holding them liable for all content on their platform, just because they've moderated some arbitrary fraction of all content, is perverse.

  6. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by r3volution 3.0 View Post
    All of that amounts to a minimal moderation, given the astounding volume of content posted per second on that dumpster fire.

    In any event, in my view, it doesn't matter at all, in itself, how much they're moderating.

    My point is that they should be liable as publishers only of the content which they in fact have moderated.

    The idea of holding them liable for all content on their platform, just because they've moderated some arbitrary fraction of all content, is perverse.
    And yet that is the responsibility they take on when they choose to subjectively exercise editorial control, it is poetic justice since their subjective censoring of conservatives while claiming neutrality is perverse, if I were them I wouldn't do it.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  7. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by nikcers View Post
    Can we just get it over with and have two facebooks one Republican and one Democrat and libertarians are banned from the debate?
    That's basically the situation now.

    ...it is pretty funny how hopped up people have gotten about this, but nobody cares that libertarian are (and have been for decades) totally excluded from the national political narrative by all media outlets, including those magnificent bastions of freedom such as FOX, Breitbart, and Rush Limbaugh.
    Last edited by r3volution 3.0; 09-01-2018 at 11:23 PM.

  8. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    And yet that is the responsibility they take on when they choose to subjectively exercise editorial control, it is poetic justice since their subjective censoring of conservatives while claiming neutrality is perverse, if I were them I wouldn't do it.
    That's never implied, there isn't a license agreement with Facebook that says that they are going to give me a safe space for free. This is the price you pay for using their service. I think its poetic justice that for years people made fun of facebook for not being able to monetize their website, even after it was sold for billions.

  9. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by nikcers View Post
    That's never implied, there isn't a license agreement with Facebook that says that they are going to give me a safe space for free. This is the price you pay for using their service. I think its poetic justice that for years people made fun of facebook for not being able to monetize their website, even after it was sold for billions.
    I'm not talking about Terms of Service or advertising right now although I maintain they did violate those, I'm talking about the legal principle of responsibility for the content they allow when they take it upon themselves to exercise subjective editorial control.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  10. #38
    Government entities interject themselves into everything and claim zero culpability. A structure being built must have every kind of permit. An inspector mandates work be performed to a certain level and be inspected and approved before further proceeding. A food inspector goes into an establishment to perform an inspection and gives the entity a perfect review. The next day, hundreds or thousands are sick. Since the government entity interjected itself into these situations as inspectors should they not be held accountable for failing to catch problems?

  11. #39

  12. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    And yet that is the responsibility they take on when they choose to subjectively exercise editorial control, it is poetic justice since their subjective censoring of conservatives while claiming neutrality is perverse, if I were them I wouldn't do it.
    You're really reaching to find a reason for the government to take control over Facebook.

    I think it's more important to make sure the government ISN'T controlling Facebook. Actually it could be interesting if this goes to court. I suspect some of Facebook's censoring of conservative groups may be from government pressure.



  13. Remove this section of ads by registering.
  14. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by Madison320 View Post
    You're really reaching to find a reason for the government to take control over Facebook.

    I think it's more important to make sure the government ISN'T controlling Facebook. Actually it could be interesting if this goes to court. I suspect some of Facebook's censoring of conservative groups may be from government pressure.
    Another compelling reason to bring this out in the open.

  15. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by Madison320 View Post
    You're really reaching to find a reason for the government to take control over Facebook.

    I think it's more important to make sure the government ISN'T controlling Facebook. Actually it could be interesting if this goes to court. I suspect some of Facebook's censoring of conservative groups may be from government pressure.
    I don't want the government to control them, I just want them to either admit they are left wing sites or lose their platform immunity.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  16. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    I don't want the government to control them, I just want them to either admit they are left wing sites or lose their platform immunity.
    What happens if they lose their "platform immunity"?

  17. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by Madison320 View Post
    What happens if they lose their "platform immunity"?
    They are responsible for anything posted that they don't remove.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  18. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by timosman View Post
    Another compelling reason to bring this out in the open.
    That's the only good thing about this.

    Do we really want the government judging every private media based company to make sure they are being "fair and balanced"?

    Be careful what you wish for.

  19. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    They are responsible for anything posted that they don't remove.
    And who is going to determine if Facebook is responsible for damages. Who is going to enforce the remedy? That's why it amounts to government control.

  20. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by Madison320 View Post
    And who is going to determine if Facebook is responsible for damages. Who is going to enforce the remedy? That's why it amounts to government control.
    No, government control would be to force them to be "neutral" (defined by the government) with no other options, but they do have other options, they can admit they are leftist sites and keep their immunity or they can change to a publisher and be held responsible for their content.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  21. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    No, government control would be to force them to be "neutral" (defined by the government) with no other options, but they do have other options, they can admit they are leftist sites and keep their immunity or they can change to a publisher and be held responsible for their content.
    So Facebook is "free" from government control because they have "options". LOL!

    That's know as a distinction without a difference.

    Using that logic the government could force you to provide shelter for immigrants. The option is you provide shelter or we take your house. Hey, it's optional!



  22. Remove this section of ads by registering.
  23. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by Madison320 View Post
    So Facebook is "free" from government control because they have "options". LOL!

    That's know as a distinction without a difference.

    Using that logic the government could force you to provide shelter for immigrants. The option is you provide shelter or we take your house. Hey, it's optional!
    You are either a publisher or a platform, publishers are responsible for their content and platforms are not, if you are exercising subjective editorial control you are a publisher.

    It isn't like saying you can shelter immigrants or you can give up your house, they can do exactly what they are doing if they make it objective and admit they are leftist sites.

    What they are doing now is false advertising and being a publisher while trying to claim immunity they aren't entitled to.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  24. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    You are either a publisher or a platform, publishers are responsible for their content and platforms are not, if you are exercising subjective editorial control you are a publisher.

    It isn't like saying you can shelter immigrants or you can give up your house, they can do exactly what they are doing if they make it objective and admit they are leftist sites.

    What they are doing now is false advertising and being a publisher while trying to claim immunity they aren't entitled to.
    Facebook is not a publisher. Facebook can't exist under your terms.

    Explain to me why Facebook should be responsible for some idiot's posting?

    Define "leftist".

  25. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by Madison320 View Post
    Facebook is not a publisher. Facebook can't exist under your terms.
    They can, they can act neutral or they can admit that they aren't neutral.

    Quote Originally Posted by Madison320 View Post
    Explain to me why Facebook should be responsible for some idiot's posting?
    Because they have chosen to exercise subjective editorial control over posts on their site, having taken the power and responsibility to remove posts that they don't agree with means that any post they don't remove is sanctioned.

    Quote Originally Posted by Madison320 View Post
    Define "leftist".
    Socialist, Democrat, Statist, Globalist etc.
    It is however up to them to define what they believe in and are going to enforce on their site, something like this website's mission statement.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  26. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    They can, they can act neutral or they can admit that they aren't neutral.


    Because they have chosen to exercise subjective editorial control over posts on their site, having taken the power and responsibility to remove posts that they don't agree with means that any post they don't remove is sanctioned.


    Socialist, Democrat, Statist, Globalist etc.
    It is however up to them to define what they believe in and are going to enforce on their site, something like this website's mission statement.
    What if Facebook just leaves their mission statement blank?

  27. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by Madison320 View Post
    What if Facebook just leaves their mission statement blank?
    Then they are claiming to be neutral, in that case they had better act neutral if they want to keep their platform immunity.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  28. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Then they are claiming to be neutral, in that case they had better act neutral if they want to keep their platform immunity.
    I go back to what I said before. Facebook can not exist under those terms.

    First of all you do agree that Facebook cannot take responsibility for stuff that people post on their website. That's a death sentence. They'd be instantly sued out of existence.

    Now pretend Facebook is just starting out and they decide to have zero editorial control. What happens when people start posting nudity? Child pornography? Death threats? If you were Facebook what would you do? You'd probably start exercising some "editorial control". But now you run the risk of being labeled "not neutral" by the government, and the death sentence imposed upon you. Or maybe Facebook decide to say it's "leftist" but then the government says that's not true and again, the death penalty. It's an impossible situation.

  29. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by Madison320 View Post
    I go back to what I said before. Facebook can not exist under those terms.

    First of all you do agree that Facebook cannot take responsibility for stuff that people post on their website. That's a death sentence. They'd be instantly sued out of existence.

    Now pretend Facebook is just starting out and they decide to have zero editorial control. What happens when people start posting nudity? Child pornography? Death threats? If you were Facebook what would you do? You'd probably start exercising some "editorial control". But now you run the risk of being labeled "not neutral" by the government, and the death sentence imposed upon you. Or maybe Facebook decide to say it's "leftist" but then the government says that's not true and again, the death penalty. It's an impossible situation.
    All they have to do is announce "No nudity" etc. and then enforce that rule equally against everyone.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  30. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    All they have to do is announce "No nudity" etc. and then enforce that rule equally against everyone.
    Requires a definition of nudity and the judgement of moderators as to what violates that definition.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Pinochet is the model
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Liberty preserving authoritarianism.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Enforced internal open borders was one of the worst elements of the Constitution.



  31. Remove this section of ads by registering.
  32. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    You are either a publisher or a platform, publishers are responsible for their content and platforms are not, if you are exercising subjective editorial control you are a publisher.

    It isn't like saying you can shelter immigrants or you can give up your house, they can do exactly what they are doing if they make it objective and admit they are leftist sites.

    What they are doing now is false advertising and being a publisher while trying to claim immunity they aren't entitled to.
    Lol. Can you provide some case law or regulation that says a platform can't be politically biased? I can't find any. Probably because they'd be struck down pretty quick for violation of the first amendment.

    If you're arguing having a political bias makes a platform a publisher, that's not going to fly either.

    Definition of publish
    published; publishing; publishes
    transitive verb
    1 a : to make generally known
    b : to make public announcement of
    2 a : to disseminate to the public
    b : to produce or release for distribution; specifically : print 2c
    c : to issue the work of (an author)

    https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/publishes
    Facebook doesnt make anything. They aren't the ones posting articles. They aren't issuing work. No where in that definition is there anything about censorship making you a publisher.

    For the record, I hate Facebook. Now Myspace, that was the $#@!. Facebook will not fall or be made fair through the courts. This problem will only be solved with free market solutions. How is this not evident to everyone on a Ron Paul forum?
    Last edited by Grandmastersexsay; 09-04-2018 at 04:07 PM.

  33. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by TheCount View Post
    Requires a definition of nudity and the judgement of moderators as to what violates that definition.
    There are grey areas in many aspects of life and we have to allow for those but MugBook and the others are nowhere near neutral, they allow blatant violations of the rules by the left while punishing those on the right for absolutely nothing.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  34. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by Grandmastersexsay View Post
    Lol. Can you provide some case law or regulation that says a platform can't be politically biased? I can't find any. Probably because they'd be struck down pretty quick for violation of the first amendment.
    I never said that, I said they have to do so objectively instead of claiming to be neutral.

    Quote Originally Posted by Grandmastersexsay View Post
    If you're arguing having a political bias makes a platform a publisher, that's not going to fly either.



    Facebook doesnt make anything. They aren't the ones posting articles. No where in that definition is there anything about censorship making you a publisher.

    For the record, I hate Facebook. Now Myspace, that was the $#@!. Facebook will not fall or made fair by the courts. This problem will only be solved with free market solutions. How is this not evident to everyone on a Ron Paul forum?
    Exercising subjective editorial control makes them a publisher according to the law.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  35. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    All they have to do is announce "No nudity" etc. and then enforce that rule equally against everyone.
    And if the government decides that you didn't enforce the rule equally? Death penalty.

    Before we go any further, please explain why Facebook should be responsible for harm caused by user posts.

Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast


Similar Threads

  1. Replies: 88
    Last Post: 07-09-2019, 01:16 PM
  2. Google, Twitter and Facebook are violating Constitutional Law
    By goldenequity in forum U.S. Political News
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: 12-20-2018, 09:34 AM
  3. CRYPTOS SLAMMED ON TWITTER, GOOGLE & FACEBOOK AD BANS
    By Smaulgld in forum Bitcoin / Cryptocurrencies
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 03-20-2018, 10:39 AM
  4. Replies: 2
    Last Post: 03-03-2018, 05:00 PM
  5. Replies: 0
    Last Post: 06-07-2013, 03:09 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •