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Thread: What The Media Is Not Telling You About The Muslim Who Attacked Donald Trump...

  1. #61
    Quote Originally Posted by kahless View Post
    It as simple as hating people like you that have no problem with importing Muslims that prefer Sharia or Constitution.

    The hypocrite you are shilling for that uses the Constitution as a prop wrote the following:
    I don't want to import muslims in large numbers for "humanitarian" reasons. I'm suspicious of them. I don't want to discriminate against them either. It's probably best to halt immigration from terrorist hotbed countries for now and when things settle they can use the existing process.



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  3. #62
    Quote Originally Posted by kahless View Post
    You conveniently ignore that he is a Muslim and wrote this.
    I included that statement in my post.

    How about YOU conveniently ignoring that he is a Muslim and he STILL wrote this:

    “it has to be admitted, however, that the Quran, being basically a book of religious guidance, is not an easy reference for legal studies. It is more particularly an appeal to faith and the human soul rather than a classification of legal prescriptions.” Khan added that, “the major portion of the Quran is, as with every Holy Book, a code of divine exhortation and moral principals.”
    There is no spoon.

  4. #63
    Quote Originally Posted by 69360 View Post
    I don't want to import muslims in large numbers for "humanitarian" reasons. I'm suspicious of them. I don't want to discriminate against them either. It's probably best to halt immigration from terrorist hotbed countries for now and when things settle they can use the existing process.
    Pretty much where I stand.

    Interesting how some turn any support of Muslims who are legal citizens of the US as "people like you that have no problem with importing Muslims that prefer Sharia or Constitution." (Perhaps she meant OVER, not OR)
    There is no spoon.

  5. #64
    Quote Originally Posted by Ender View Post
    I included that statement in my post.

    How about YOU conveniently ignoring that he is a Muslim and he STILL wrote this:
    It is irrelevant that it is not an easy reference since as a Muslim this is what he believes.

    “to Muslims, the Quran being the very word of God, it is the absolute authority from which springs the very conception of legality and every legal obligation.”
    Quote Originally Posted by Ender View Post
    Pretty much where I stand.

    Interesting how some turn any support of Muslims who are legal citizens of the US as "people like you that have no problem with importing Muslims that prefer Sharia or Constitution." (Perhaps she meant OVER, not OR)
    I had corrected that but it was too late after she responded.
    * See my visitor message area for caveats related to my posting history here.
    * Also, I have effectively retired from all social media including posting here and are basically opting out of anything to do with national politics or this country on federal or state level and rather focusing locally. I may stop by from time to time to discuss philosophy on a general level related to Libertarian schools of thought and application in the real world.



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  7. #65
    Quote Originally Posted by 69360 View Post
    I don't want to import muslims in large numbers for "humanitarian" reasons. I'm suspicious of them. I don't want to discriminate against them either. It's probably best to halt immigration from terrorist hotbed countries for now and when things settle they can use the existing process.
    I agree but I do not see where the "hate" is.
    * See my visitor message area for caveats related to my posting history here.
    * Also, I have effectively retired from all social media including posting here and are basically opting out of anything to do with national politics or this country on federal or state level and rather focusing locally. I may stop by from time to time to discuss philosophy on a general level related to Libertarian schools of thought and application in the real world.

  8. #66
    Quote Originally Posted by kahless View Post
    It is irrelevant that it is not an easy reference since as a Muslim this is what he believes.
    And right after that he says:

    "it has to be admitted, however, that the Quran, being basically a book of religious guidance, is not an easy reference for legal studies. It is more particularly an appeal to faith and the human soul rather than a classification of legal prescriptions.” Khan added that, “the major portion of the Quran is, as with every Holy Book, a code of divine exhortation and moral principals.”
    But we're to ignore that and only concentrate on your "evil Muslim" stuff?
    There is no spoon.

  9. #67
    None of what has been posted on here about this Khan character surprises me. The level of clandestine political nonsense that goes on with Muslims living in America is perhaps only rivaled by the Mormons and other various off-shoots of Freemasonry. Muslims vote for Muslim interests, and anyone with even a shred of common sense would not want those interests anywhere near western civilization.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ender View Post
    But we're to ignore that and only concentrate on your "evil Muslim" stuff?
    This assumes that there is such a thing as "good Muslim" stuff. The Qu'ran isn't really used for Sharia Law exclusively, we also have the Hadiths and the traditions that flowed from it, none of which was disqualified by this poor little Muslim dad in the rest of his little write up, a man who has opted to make a spectacle of himself.

    Sorry my bleeding heart friends, the Khan family is fair game, and evidently they are not very good at coping with media scrutiny.

    P.S. - I'm not voting for Trump, so kindly save it.

  10. #68
    Quote Originally Posted by afwjam View Post
    Brown people are scary.
    like I said....race card liberals are scary.. If the English wanted to come and start $#@! and change my country I would resist.....racist still? BS., hell I don't even like California's people coming get to nevada because they change our laws to liberal BS.
    "Liberty lies in the hearts of men and women; when it dies there, no constitution, no law, no court can save it; no constitution, no law, no court can even do much to help it."
    James Madison

    "It does not take a majority to prevail ... but rather an irate, tireless minority, keen on setting brushfires of freedom in the minds of men." - Samuel Adams



    Μολὼν λάβε
    Dum Spiro, Pugno
    Tu ne cede malis sed contra audentior ito

  11. #69
    Quote Originally Posted by hells_unicorn View Post
    None of what has been posted on here about this Khan character surprises me. The level of clandestine political nonsense that goes on with Muslims living in America is perhaps only rivaled by the Mormons and other various off-shoots of Freemasonry. Muslims vote for Muslim interests, and anyone with even a shred of common sense would not want those interests anywhere near western civilization.



    This assumes that there is such a thing as "good Muslim" stuff. The Qu'ran isn't really used for Sharia Law exclusively, we also have the Hadiths and the traditions that flowed from it, none of which was disqualified by this poor little Muslim dad in the rest of his little write up, a man who has opted to make a spectacle of himself.

    Sorry my bleeding heart friends, the Khan family is fair game, and evidently they are not very good at coping with media scrutiny.

    P.S. - I'm not voting for Trump, so kindly save it.
    I'll save it when you stop knocking other religions- including Mormons.
    There is no spoon.

  12. #70
    Quote Originally Posted by kahless View Post
    I agree but I do not see where the "hate" is.
    I think the average Trump voter hates muslims and mexicans. They don't really care about immigration, the constitution, sharia or anything else. They just dislike brown people. That's my opinion.

  13. #71
    Quote Originally Posted by 69360 View Post
    I don't want to import muslims in large numbers for "humanitarian" reasons. I'm suspicious of them. I don't want to discriminate against them either. It's probably best to halt immigration from terrorist hotbed countries for now and when things settle they can use the existing process.
    That wont work since some people want free travel, free movement and open border.

  14. #72


    “I don’t think that there will be any curtailing of Donald Trump as president,” he said. "He controls the media, he controls the sentiment [and] he controls everybody. He’s the one who will resort to executive orders more so than [President] Obama ever used them." - Ron Paul



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  16. #73
    Quote Originally Posted by Ender View Post
    I'll save it when you stop knocking other religions- including Mormons.
    Your bank account is going to be empty until kingdom come if that's your stance.

  17. #74
    Trump memo calls for ‘urgent pivot’ from Khan controversy


    Donald Trump’s campaign sent out an email to surrogates this week titled “URGENT PIVOT” as the campaign seeks to control the damage from Trump’s war of words with the parents of a Muslim U.S. Army captain killed in Iraq.

    The memo, obtained by The Hill, asks surrogates on Capitol Hill to coordinate messaging and push back on attacks on Trump.

    “All — As usual, the media is working against our efforts and our messaging specifically as it relates to the tragic death of Capt. Humayun Khan,” Scott Mason, Trump’s director of congressional affairs, wrote.

    “We are asking you to review and use the attached talking points in your daily messaging, including a release and/or statements you can put out in your social media immediately to support Mr. Trump and OUR message, that we must end radical Islamic terror so that soldiers like Capt. Khan, and all Americans, will be safe.”

    Trump has faced an enormous backlash from Democrats, military and veterans groups, and even many prominent Republicans after he went after Khizr and Ghazala Khan on Twitter and in TV interviews in recent days.

    Both appeared on stage at last week’s Democratic National Convention, challenging Trump’s proposed ban on Muslims entering the country. Khizr Khan asked the GOP nominee if he had ever read the Constitution while dramatically pulling a pocket version of the founding document from his jacket.

    Mason’s email, which was also sent to Trump aides including Rick Dearborn, MacKenzie Smith, Jeff Freeland and Adnan Jalil, demonstrates how serious Trump’s team is treating fallout from the Khan controversy.

    Retiring Rep. Richard Hanna (R-N.Y.) said Tuesday he would vote for Democratic nominee Hillary Clinton after Trump blasted the Khans. Sally Bradshaw, a top aide to former Florida Gov. Jeb Bush, said Trump's attacks motivated her to leave the Republican Party.

    And Sen. John McCain (R-Ariz.), a war hero who spent years in a Vietnam prisoner-of-war camp, issued a powerful statement saying Trump’s attacks “do not represent the views of our Republican Party, its officers, or candidates.”

    Gold Star families should be “off limits,” Republican National Committee Chairman Reince Priebus declared.

    In the attached talking points, the Trump campaign provided transcripts of interviews Trump had given about the Khans and argued that the businessman’s comments had been misconstrued by the media. The talking points stated:

    “Mr. Trump was asked about Mr. Khan’s comments during the DNC, and he replied that he wished him well.

    “Many in the media reported falsely that Trump had compared his sacrifices to Mr. Khan’s son which is completely false and the transcripts show that to be true.

    “Mr. Trump wants to end radical Islamic terror, so that our soldiers like Mr. Khan’s son will be safe.”

    The four-page memo also contained talking points blaming the policies of President Obama and Clinton for Russian aggression; accusing Clinton of treating the State Department like her personal hedge fund; drawing attention to the email leak at the Democratic National Committee; and attacking last week’s Democratic convention.

    “We will be summarizing all supporting statements for NY and Mr. Trump to see this evening, so please act now and send us a copy/share whatever you're able to post,” Mason wrote in his email to dozens of Capitol Hill surrogates. “Thanks for your continued support. Welcome to August.”
    http://thehill.com/homenews/campaign...an-controversy
    “I don’t think that there will be any curtailing of Donald Trump as president,” he said. "He controls the media, he controls the sentiment [and] he controls everybody. He’s the one who will resort to executive orders more so than [President] Obama ever used them." - Ron Paul

  18. #75
    Trump really blew this one. He had a golden opportunity to slam Hillary on the Iraq War. He is blinded by narcissism so he couldn't get beyond the personal insult.

    Apparently his team doesn't get it either. After several days they couldn't come up with anything better than this uninspiring stock line... "We must end radical Islamic terror".

  19. #76
    Quote Originally Posted by milgram View Post
    Trump really blew this one. He had a golden opportunity to slam Hillary on the Iraq War. He is blinded by narcissism so he couldn't get beyond the personal insult.

    Apparently his team doesn't get it either. After several days they couldn't come up with anything better than this uninspiring stock line... "We must end radical Islamic terror".
    'Zactly.
    There is no spoon.

  20. #77
    Quote Originally Posted by puppetmaster View Post
    like I said....race card liberals are scary.. If the English wanted to come and start $#@! and change my country I would resist.....racist still? BS., hell I don't even like California's people coming get to nevada because they change our laws to liberal BS.
    Ah yes but you see I personally know two Trump supporters now. One is a good friend who unfortunately about two weeks ago went on for nearly an hour about how blacks are less intelligent and more violent and he hoped Trump would empower the police to deal with them more violently to "put them in their place". The other, my neighbor recently let on he was a Trump supporter in the same conversation where he explain the Hawaiians voted to become part of the US and did it so they could get taxpayers to provide their welfare, he also seemed to think they were less intelligent then us(white men). Funny that both guys are not very well traveled , except for my good friends tour in desert storm where he shot all the camels he could from a helicopter. Neither the blacks or the Hawaiians came to this country trying to start some $#@!. Now as for the illegal Mexicans, the dry wall crew I ran on the mainland was entirely illegals and darned if they weren't the nicest, hardest working, with families that fed me every day people I've ever dealt with, I say send more. I also enjoyed living in Mexico, I'm particularly fond of the Yucatan. I also like hummus and think Mediterranean food is the bomb.

  21. #78
    Quote Originally Posted by afwjam View Post
    Ah yes but you see I personally know two Trump supporters now. One is a good friend who unfortunately about two weeks ago went on for nearly an hour about how blacks are less intelligent and more violent and he hoped Trump would empower the police to deal with them more violently to "put them in their place". The other, my neighbor recently let on he was a Trump supporter in the same conversation where he explain the Hawaiians voted to become part of the US and did it so they could get taxpayers to provide their welfare, he also seemed to think they were less intelligent then us(white men). Funny that both guys are not very well traveled , except for my good friends tour in desert storm where he shot all the camels he could from a helicopter. Neither the blacks or the Hawaiians came to this country trying to start some $#@!. Now as for the illegal Mexicans, the dry wall crew I ran on the mainland was entirely illegals and darned if they weren't the nicest, hardest working, with families that fed me every day people I've ever dealt with, I say send more. I also enjoyed living in Mexico, I'm particularly fond of the Yucatan. I also like hummus and think Mediterranean food is the bomb.
    Interesting that most Americans do not realize that Hawaii was taken over in a US military coup in the 1800s and has been handcuffed since then. It is used for resources and it's location for military advantages. Many Hawaiians want their country back. It was a free and independent country, basically a Constitutional Monarchy, for many years and never wanted to be part of the US.

    My experience with Mexicans is similar and I know lots of very smart blacks.
    There is no spoon.

  22. #79
    Quote Originally Posted by kahless View Post
    His waving around the Constitution is totally bogus since his writings indicate that he believes everything is subordinate to Sharia law.
    Thats not what his writings have said per say. Theyve said to muslims, that is the case. And that should be true. To Christians, it is also true...the constitution is subordinate to the law of Christ.

    I find nothing wrong with them believing and following that for themselves.

  23. #80
    Quote Originally Posted by 65fastback2+2 View Post
    Thats not what his writings have said per say. Theyve said to muslims, that is the case. And that should be true.
    He is Muslim and this is his writing.
    “to Muslims, the Quran being the very word of God, it is the absolute authority from which springs the very conception of legality and every legal obligation.”
    Quote Originally Posted by 65fastback2+2 View Post
    To Christians, it is also true...the constitution is subordinate to the law of Christ. I find nothing wrong with them believing and following that for themselves.
    False. The majority of Muslims believe the Constitution should be subordinate to Sharia/Quran and want everyone one to follow Sharia not only themselves.

    The precept of the Quran is, perpetual war against all who deny, that [Mohammed] is the prophet of God. There is no comparison in that respect to Christians and Muslims.

    * See my visitor message area for caveats related to my posting history here.
    * Also, I have effectively retired from all social media including posting here and are basically opting out of anything to do with national politics or this country on federal or state level and rather focusing locally. I may stop by from time to time to discuss philosophy on a general level related to Libertarian schools of thought and application in the real world.



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  25. #81
    Reading this thread it almost feels like this forum or at least some would like to turn the forum into this.

    * See my visitor message area for caveats related to my posting history here.
    * Also, I have effectively retired from all social media including posting here and are basically opting out of anything to do with national politics or this country on federal or state level and rather focusing locally. I may stop by from time to time to discuss philosophy on a general level related to Libertarian schools of thought and application in the real world.

  26. #82
    Quote Originally Posted by LibertyEagle View Post
    Perhaps things are not as simple as the father espoused during the Clinton infomercial.
    Much more at the link:
    http://shoebat.com/2016/07/31/what-t...united-states/
    Last edited by anaconda; 08-03-2016 at 08:31 AM.

  27. #83
    Quote Originally Posted by kahless View Post
    He is Muslim and this is his writing.




    False. The majority of Muslims believe the Constitution should be subordinate to Sharia/Quran and want everyone one to follow Sharia not only themselves.

    The precept of the Quran is, perpetual war against all who deny, that [Mohammed] is the prophet of God. There is no comparison in that respect to Christians and Muslims.
    Your rhetoric sounds familiar:

    When Pilgrims and Puritans settled in New England half a century later they brought fresh venom from Europe’s religious conflicts, including the idea that the Pope was the “anti-Christ” and the “whore of Babylon”.

    At first banned from the colonies, “papists” were grudgingly allowed entry but with severe civic restrictions, including exclusion from political power. Jews and Quakers also suffered discrimination but were seen as a lesser threat.

    The establishment of a secular republic which separated church and state did not end prejudice.

    Lurid myths about Catholic sexual slavery and infanticide spread through pamphlets and books such as Awful Disclosures of Maria Monk, an 1834 supposed memoir about a Canadian convent.

    Demagogues in the nativist movement incited fury and fear about the huge numbers of impoverished German and Irish Catholic immigrants, many barely speaking English, who spilled off ships.

    Newspapers and Protestant clergymen, including Lyman Beecher, co-founder of the American Temperance Society, swelled the outcry, warning the influx would take jobs, spread disease and crime and plot a coup to install the Pope in power.
    In 1844 mobs burnt Catholic churches and hunted down victims, notably in Philadelphia where, coincidentally or not, Francis will wrap up his week-long visit.

    Abuse from Protestant officers partly drove hundreds of Irish soldiers to defect from the US army to the Mexican side before and during the 1846-48 war with Mexico. The deserters obtained revenge, for a while, by forming the San Patricio battalion and targeting their former superiors in battle, only to wind up jailed, branded and hanged after Mexico surrendered.

    The growth of the Ku Klux Klan in the early 20th century gave a new impetus to attacks – mostly verbal – on Catholics. Hugo Black, a KKK member and US senator, gave fiery anti-Catholic speeches before going on to become a defender of civil liberties on the supreme court bench.

    Writers and intellectuals had no hesitation bashing the Catholic church. Mark Twain noted he was “educated to enmity toward everything that is Catholic”.
    https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...ting-catholics
    While some of America’s early leaders were models of virtuous tolerance, American attitudes were slow to change.

    The anti-Catholicism of America’s Calvinist past found new voice in the 19th century. The belief widely held and preached by some of the most prominent ministers in America was that Catholics would, if permitted, turn America over to the pope. Anti-Catholic venom was part of the typical American school day, along with Bible readings. In Massachusetts, a convent—coincidentally near the site of the Bunker Hill Monument—was burned to the ground in 1834 by an anti-Catholic mob incited by reports that young women were being abused in the convent school. In Philadelphia, the City of Brotherly Love, anti-Catholic sentiment, combined with the country’s anti-immigrant mood, fueled the Bible Riots of 1844, in which houses were torched, two Catholic churches were destroyed and at least 20 people were killed.

    At about the same time, Joseph Smith founded a new American religion—and soon met with the wrath of the mainstream Protestant majority. In 1832, a mob tarred and feathered him, marking the beginning of a long battle between Christian America and Smith’s Mormonism. In October 1838, after a series of conflicts over land and religious tension, Missouri Governor Lilburn Boggs ordered that all Mormons be expelled from his state. Three days later, rogue militiamen massacred 17 church members, including children, at the Mormon settlement of Haun’s Mill. In 1844, a mob murdered Joseph Smith and his brother Hyrum while they were jailed in Carthage, Illinois. No one was ever convicted of the crime.

    Read more: http://www.smithsonianmag.com/histor...ous-tolerance-
    Sticks

    Anti-Catholic violence has taken the form of protest against Catholics who were taking their place in the public square. Catholics, it was feared, could subvert the American Republic, especially its democratic processes, and its “public” schools. When Franciscan priests and brothers first came to Cincinnati, Ohio, from Austria in 1844, onlookers did not know what to think of them, walking through the streets in their brown habits. But some recognized them immediately as “Catholic monks,” potential anti-American subversives. In his journal, one of the first Franciscans in Cincinnati, Fr. William Unterthiner, described the animosity directed at Catholics, especially priests, in mid-1840s Cincinnati:

    The Protestants here are even worse (than in other places in the U.S.); so goes the protest. Today … some people threw wooden sticks at us, and cursed us (as we walked down the street). It is certainly true that a person is free to choose one, or even no religion, but one would still be very mistaken if he believed that Catholics are allowed to live unhindered. 3

    As Catholic immigration increased throughout the 1840s and 1850s, concern mounted that Catholics were taking over America’s public schools—an attempt that would eliminate the Bible (particularly the King James version) from everyday classroom use. The challenge offered by Catholics to “public” schools, that were de facto Protestant schools, brought Catholics and Protestants into frequent conflict.

    The so-called “Eliot School Rebellion,” which occurred in Boston, Massachusetts, in 1859, proves a dramatic example. The state law that required the Ten Commandments to be recited (always using the King James Bible) in every classroom every morning, pitted Catholics, who viewed non-Catholics’ Bibles as false translations, against Protestant teachers, parents, and schoolmates. Ten-year-old Thomas Whall, a Catholic, was asked to take his turn leading the recitation of the Ten Commandments. When Whall refused because of his Catholic faith (and his desire to only read from the Douay-Rheims translation, an approved Catholic translation), he was disciplined. Whall had been urged by his parish priest not to recite Protestant prayers, nor read from the King James Bible.

    A few days later, when Whall refused again, his teacher struck him with a rattan stick for half an hour until he was bleeding; he refused to give in, and his fellow Catholic classmates cheered him on. The school’s principal demanded that Catholic children, who refused to recite the commandments, leave the school; hundreds left in protest. The “rebellion” helped extend the parochial school system in Massachusetts. Within a year, a Catholic school was established in Whall’s parish with an enrollment of over 1,000. 4

    Stones
    Not all anti-Catholic violence was physical. Sometimes it resulted in the destruction of property. These episodes represent the ferocity of anti-Catholic violence, though without physical assault or loss of life.

    In 1834, an anti-Catholic mob burned the Ursuline Convent in Charlestown, near Boston. The convent school there educated primarily upper-class Protestant girls, and worries of the Protestant elites’ attraction to Catholicism festered. This, together with the rumor of an Ursuline sister being held in the convent against her will, and the anti-Catholic preaching of Rev. Lyman Beecher, father of Harriet Beecher Stowe, incited a riot. 5

    An angry mob gathered outside the convent, calling for the release of the sister, but the Ursuline mother superior threatened the crowd: “The Bishop has 20,000 of the vilest Irishmen at his command, and you may read your riot act till your throats are sore, but you’ll not quell them.” The crowd broke down doors and windows to enter the convent, and began to ransack the buildings. The sisters and their students rushed out the back of the convent, and hid in the garden. At about midnight, the rioters set fire to the building, burning it to the ground. Of the 13 men arrested and charged with arson, all but one was acquitted. The governor pardoned him in response to a petition signed by 5,000 Bostonians. 6

    Distrust of sisters in convents led eventually to a number of state legislatures proposing “convent inspection laws,” authorizing the warrantless searches of Catholic buildings—convents, monasteries, rectories, and churches—for weaponry, and for young women supposedly seduced into the convent and held against their will. 7

    In 1844, two Catholic churches were burned in Philadelphia after it was rumored Catholics were insisting on the removal of the Bible from public schools. The same scene might have been repeated in New York City, but New York’s Bishop, John Hughes, warned: “If a single Catholic church is burned in New York, the city would become a second Moscow,” a reference to the 1812 burning of Moscow in which its own citizens set fire to the city as Napoleon’s soldiers closed in. 8

    In 1854, as the Washington Monument in Washington, D.C., was being constructed, nine men, associated with the anti-Catholic Know-Nothing party, sneaked up to the base of the monument to steal a stone that had been engraved “Rome to America.” The stone, which was to have been placed inside the monument, along with other stones given as gifts from foreign governments, had been shipped from the Vatican. The men carried the stone to a boat waiting at the tidal basin, smashed it into pieces, and dumped it in the middle of the Potomac River. For them, the stone indicated the threat of the Catholic Church’s takeover of the U.S. government, a much talked about, but very unlikely, threat. The identity of the conspirators was shrouded in mystery; no one was ever convicted of the crime. In 1982, a replica of the stone, given by a priest from Spokane, Washington, was installed in the monument by the National Park Service. 9

    The attack on the Shrine of Our Lady of Juan del Valle in San Juan, Texas, provides a final, modern example. In 1970, a non-denominational preacher intentionally flew a small airplane into the church while Mass was being celebrated. No one was injured except the kamikaze pilot who died. While the overall property loss was estimated at $1.5 million, many believed it a miracle that no one else was hurt or died in the tragedy. A new shrine was dedicated in 1980 where the previous church had stood. 10
    http://www.hprweb.com/2014/08/sticks...ce-in-the-u-s/
    There is no spoon.

  28. #84
    So now guys who shill war propaganda for Hillary are above reproach on this forum now? All because Trump is a big bad boogityman who hurted our feelings?

  29. #85
    Quote Originally Posted by Ender View Post
    Your rhetoric sounds familiar:
    Demography is destiny. These people spent their family fortunes and died in large numbers to voyage across the Earth and found a new country according to their liking.

    They did not want their new country to be Catholic. Hey, to each his own! This sounds like a pretty fair, reasonable desire. Maybe you love Catholics and want to live in a Catholic country, Ender. Well, they didn't. And there were plenty of other Catholic countries for the Catholics to live in. They did not need to come here and make this one Catholic.

    They did not want their new country to be Catholic. And they were smart enough to realize that if they let Catholics come in, they'd be inundated and their country would transform into a Catholic country several generations down the road, due to the higher Catholic birth rate. Guess what: they were right! Those Puritan Rocket Scientists! Number one religion in USA today: Catholic!

    Hmm. I wonder if there are any lessons for today?

  30. #86
    Quote Originally Posted by helmuth_hubener View Post
    Demography is destiny. These people spent their family fortunes and died in large numbers to voyage across the Earth and found a new country according to their liking.

    They did not want their new country to be Catholic. Hey, to each his own! This sounds like a pretty fair, reasonable desire. Maybe you love Catholics and want to live in a Catholic country, Ender. Well, they didn't. And there were plenty of other Catholic countries for the Catholics to live in. They did not need to come here and make this one Catholic.

    They did not want their new country to be Catholic. And they were smart enough to realize that if they let Catholics come in, they'd be inundated and their country would transform into a Catholic country several generations down the road, due to the higher Catholic birth rate. Guess what: they were right! Those Puritan Rocket Scientists! Number one religion in USA today: Catholic!

    Hmm. I wonder if there are any lessons for today?
    Did you miss this part?

    At about the same time, Joseph Smith founded a new American religion—and soon met with the wrath of the mainstream Protestant majority. In 1832, a mob tarred and feathered him, marking the beginning of a long battle between Christian America and Smith’s Mormonism. In October 1838, after a series of conflicts over land and religious tension, Missouri Governor Lilburn Boggs ordered that all Mormons be expelled from his state. Three days later, rogue militiamen massacred 17 church members, including children, at the Mormon settlement of Haun’s Mill. In 1844, a mob murdered Joseph Smith and his brother Hyrum while they were jailed in Carthage, Illinois. No one was ever convicted of the crime.

    Read more: http://www.smithsonianmag.com/histor...ous-tolerance-
    So much for the 1st Amendment, right?

    BTW- you could legally kill a Mormon in Missouri until 1970.
    There is no spoon.

  31. #87
    Quote Originally Posted by sgt150 View Post
    So now guys who shill war propaganda for Hillary are above reproach on this forum now? All because Trump is a big bad boogityman who hurted our feelings?
    This site has gone wild-eyed.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sister Miriam Godwinson View Post
    We Must Dissent.

  32. #88
    @Ender

    Jefferson and Adams sent a report to the Congress describing a meeting met with the emissary of the Islamic potentates.

    Relevant excerpt:
    “We took the liberty to make some inquiries concerning the Grounds of their pretentions to make war upon Nations who had done them no Injury, and observed that we considered all mankind as our friends who had done us no wrong, nor had given us any provocation.

    “The Ambassador answered us that it was founded on the Laws of their prophet, that it was written in their Qur’an, that all nations who should not have acknowledged their authority were sinners, that it was their right and duty to make war upon them wherever they could be found, and to make slaves of all they could take as Prisoners, and that every Musselman [Muslim] who should be slain in battle was sure to go to Paradise.”
    John Quincy Adams wrote a 136-page series of essays on Islam.

    Relevant excerpt:
    “…[Mohammed] declared undistinguishing and exterminating war, as a part of his religion, against all the rest of mankind…. The precept of the Quran is, perpetual war against all who deny, that [Mohammed] is the prophet of God.

    “The vanquished may purchase their lives, by the payment of tribute. As the essential principle of [Mohammed’s] faith is the subjugation of others by the sword; it is only by force, that his false doctrines can be dispelled, and his power annihilated.

    “The commands of the prophet may be performed alike, by fraud, or by force.

    “This appeal to the natural hatred of the Mussulmen towards the infidels is in just accordance with the precepts of the Quran. The document [the Quran] does not attempt to disguise it, nor even pretend that the enmity of those whom it styles the infidels, is any other than the necessary consequence of the hatred borne by the Mussulmen to them – the paragraph itself, is a forcible example of the contrasted character of the two religions.

    “The fundamental doctrine of the Christian religion is the extirpation of hatred from the human heart. It forbids the exercise of it, even towards enemies. There is no denomination of Christians, which denies or misunderstands this doctrine. All understand it alike – all acknowledge its obligations; and however imperfectly, in the purposes of Divine Providence, its efficacy has been shown in the practice of Christians, it has not been wholly inoperative upon them. Its effect has been upon the manners of nations. It has mitigated the horrors of war – it has softened the features of slavery – it has humanized the intercourse of social life. The unqualified acknowledgement of a duty does not, indeed, suffice to insure its performance. Hatred is yet a passion, but too powerful upon the hearts of Christians. Yet they cannot indulge it, except by the sacrifice of their principles, and the conscious violation of their duties. No state paper from a Christian hand, could, without trampling the precepts of its Lord and Master, have commenced by an open proclamation of hatred to any portion of the human race. The Ottoman lays it down as the foundation of his discourse.”
    Last edited by kahless; 08-03-2016 at 07:11 PM.
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  34. #89
    @kahless

    http://www.usnews.com/opinion/articl...erican-society

    In the U.S. – where Islam is the third-largest religion and where, by 2030, almost two out of 100 Americans are projected to be Muslims – a growing controversy exists as to whether Islam and American values are compatible with each other.

    After the 9/11 attacks, albeit for understandable reasons, Muslims were portrayed as violent and anti-Western. Fear of Islam grew after the U.S. supported war against the Islamic State group and, most recently, after the tragic terrorist attacks in Paris. Yet, surprisingly for many, Muslims historically have defended our homeland, and America has had a longstanding openness towards Islam.

    To begin with, we must understand that radical Islamists account for a tiny, although very vocal, fraction of the over 1.6 billion world Muslim population. In the U.S. – the bastion of religious freedom – Muslims generally represent an ethnically diverse, educated and integrated group. And only eight percent of American Muslims believe suicide bombings are sometimes or often justified.

    As an example, growing up in post-Soviet Azerbaijan – where religion was banned under the communist rule – my parents allowed me to read both the Bible and the Quran. They explained to me that Jews, Christians and Muslims all believed in the same deity but in distinctive ways just like various branches of Islam have their differences in worshipping God. They also taught me to treat others as I would like others to treat me. And never in my memory had I perceived non-Muslims as infidels.

    When I came to the United States as an exchange student in 2004, I lived with a Christian Baptist family. Seven years later, an American Christian woman gave me shelter and adopted me into her family as her own child. While I continued to practice Islam, I also celebrated Christmas and Easter holidays. Besides, as an American Muslim, I support the absolute equality of all people. I endorse separation of religion and state. And I believe in freedom of speech.

    Nevertheless, on Jan. 16, sitting in the Duke University Chapel during Friday service, where "adhan" – the call for Islamic prayer – had been cancelled because of threats against Muslim students, I could not but wonder about the escalating Islamophobia in our society. Praying under the guard of undercover officers and policemen, I suddenly felt vulnerable in the U.S. Unfortunately, there is a lot of ignorance about American Muslims.

    For starters, Islam is not a new phenomenon in America. In 1776, John Adams, one of our Founding Fathers, praised Prophet Muhammad as a “sober inquirer after truth” in his “Thoughts on Government.” Twenty-one years later, he signed the Treaty of Tripoli, which declared that the U.S. had “no character of enmity against the laws, religion, or tranquility” of Muslims.

    Other Founding Fathers – George Washington, Benjamin Franklin and Thomas Jefferson – all defended religious freedom in America. In his autobiography, Franklin wrote that even if the Mufti of Constantinople were to send a missionary to preach Mohammedanism to us, he would find a pulpit at his service.” In addition, the first country to recognize the United States' independence in 1777 was Morocco, a Muslim state.

    Furthermore, Muslims are not foreigners in the U.S. They are part of our American history. The first Muslims came to America as early as the 16th century. They fought in the Civil War for the Union; they died on the battlefields of World War II fighting against the Nazis, and as Winston Churchill wrote in his letter to President Franklin Roosevelt, “We must not on any account break with the Moslems … the main army elements on which we must rely for the immediate fighting.”

    In fact, two of the earliest mosques in the U.S. were built in traditionally conservative states: in North Dakota in 1929 and in Iowa in 1934, where the Muslim National Cemetery in Cedar Rapids is a burial site for American Muslim veterans who perished in World War II. And during the Vietnam War at least 12 American Muslims died for the country.

    Moreover, even after the 9/11 attacks, many American Muslims joined the war on terror and, as of 2012, 3,600 Muslims were on active duty in the U.S. armed forces. Muslim tombstones in the Arlington National Cemetery are a reminder of their sacrifice to defend America.

    Today, however, by portraying Muslims as existentially evil and anti-American, by presenting Islam as a religion of violence, by burning the Quran and attacking the religious beliefs of Muslims, we are missing an opportunity to reconcile the world’s largest religions. One way to achieve this goal is to encourage inter-religious dialogue to promote coexistence in the U.S. in the manner our Founding Fathers envisioned it and to educate all people in the spirit of tolerance, love and peace.

    These principles are emboldened in our holy scriptures. The Bible teaches us to be “with all humility and gentleness, with patience, bearing with one another in love” and the Quran says, “You shall have your religion and I shall have my religion.”
    President George Washington was right when he wrote in 1790 that “all possess alike liberty of conscience. ... For happily the Government of the United States, which gives to bigotry no sanction, to persecution no assistance requires only that they who live under its protection should demean themselves as good citizens.”

    Finally, we must also not forget recent history when the fear of another religious group led to the horrors of Holocaust. We need to learn from our past. And, once again, let us not obliterate the United States' longstanding openness towards Muslims. We, Americans, as a progressive nation, should work together to build a better country, where Islam is a part of our colorful religious and cultural mosaic.

    Geysar Gurbanov Contributor

    Geysar Gurbanov is an alumnus of Rotary World Peace program and graduated with master’s degree from the University of North Carolina in Chapel Hill. He researched communal violence and civil wars during his studies at Duke and Harvard. He also worked with international organizations in the field of human rights, democratization, and conflict resolution. Twitter @geysar.
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