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Thread: Yet another thing to chew on.

  1. #91
    Quote Originally Posted by kahless View Post
    You are judging the entire country based on political figures the elite media continually promote. Your average rational people do not support what they are peddling. However when the elite media eventually over time repeat their beliefs over and over again it becomes the norm. That is the entire point, it is all political advocacy from your enemies and it is imperative to get people to recognize who the enemy is.
    I'm not dismissing the rest of your post, as I happen to mostly agree, so I'm not going to comment.

    You are right, this is the entire point:

    However when the elite media eventually over time repeat their beliefs over and over again it becomes the norm.
    This is the only point on which we, and @acptulsa, and quite a few other folks disagree on.

    I contend that "norming" point has already been reached.

    Between the utter and total takeover of the education system by Marxists, the constant bleating of their propaganda throughout every media and entertainment organ, and the flood of immigrant invaders sympathetic to the cause of collectivism, that point has been reached.

    Yes, the elites orchestrated this, no doubt.

    But the damage is now done, the vessel is doomed and sinking.

    Measures must be taken now to save life, and indeed, western civilization, from utter annihilation.

    Running around the wheelhouse arguing about whose fault it was to run into the iceberg is pointless right now.

    A SOLAS convention for western civilization must take place after the current crisis is dealt with.
    Another mark of a tyrant is that he likes foreigners better than citizens, and lives with them and invites them to his table; for the one are enemies, but the Others enter into no rivalry with him. - Aristotle's Politics Book 5 Part 11



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  3. #92
    Quote Originally Posted by kahless View Post
    TheTexan is promoting statist propaganda that falsely claims libertarians will not fight because of NAP. That is a lie. They are violating our NAP, that gives us the right to fight back. There is no contradiction in philosophy.
    That is not something I ever intended to imply.

    If libertarians won't fight, it's because the same reason why anybody won't fight. We're fed, happy(enough) and have a roof over our head. And tons of netflix.
    It's all about taking action and not being lazy. So you do the work, whether it's fitness or whatever. It's about getting up, motivating yourself and just doing it.
    - Kim Kardashian

    Donald Trump / Crenshaw 2024!!!!

    My pronouns are he/him/his

  4. #93
    Quote Originally Posted by acptulsa View Post
    Because kids invariably turn to the evangelic channels for their brainwashing, not CNN. Yawn.
    I'm not sure anybody is turning to CNN for anything, anymore.

    Hah Hah

    Indeed not. But like all of us, especially past a certain age, your rudder may be a bit small to turn you properly and quickly to quarter the wake when the wind shifts.
    Seems like that's what I'm getting most grief for: rapidly altering course to come about in the face of rocks and shoals.

    Let us hope this brainwashed younger generation is more nimble on their mental feet. Sooner or later they'll see this government's true colors. When that happens, let's hope they don't just go into denial. If they don't, let's hope we have sense enough to say, good, you finally woke up. Come in and have some coffee.

    We won't win fighting fire with fire. Collectivism got us in this mess. It won't get us out.
    And I have no problem in saying I hope you are right and I am wrong.

    But there is no ulterior motive, no "purpose of evasion" when I say, I don't think I am wrong.
    Another mark of a tyrant is that he likes foreigners better than citizens, and lives with them and invites them to his table; for the one are enemies, but the Others enter into no rivalry with him. - Aristotle's Politics Book 5 Part 11

  5. #94
    Quote Originally Posted by kahless View Post
    No one here or anywhere claims 99.9% "non-elites" will suddenly unify. He pulled that completely out of his ass in defense of the status quo since that is what statists do, they defend the Republican establishment and their failed leaders.
    I was just filling in the gaps in your plan. Your plan "take out the elites", solves nothing, unless of course the 99.9% "non-elites" magically become NAP-believers either prior, or as a consequence of, "taking out the elites". Otherwise - what's the point? I know you hate elites, but surely there is something else to be gained, other than just removing the elites.
    It's all about taking action and not being lazy. So you do the work, whether it's fitness or whatever. It's about getting up, motivating yourself and just doing it.
    - Kim Kardashian

    Donald Trump / Crenshaw 2024!!!!

    My pronouns are he/him/his

  6. #95
    Quote Originally Posted by kahless View Post
    You are judging the entire country based on political figures the elite media continually promote.
    Up until recently, I used to travel a lot. Every week was out of town.

    I have spent countless hours at bars shooting the $#@! after work with total strangers, in pretty much every region of the country.

    His assessment of people isn't some "elitist propaganda." It's reality.

    Understanding this, is key to how we move forward as a movement, and can start making real progress.

    The denial of this simple fact, that most people are simply incompatible with freedom, is what I primarily blame, for the stunted progress so far.
    Last edited by TheTexan; 08-18-2021 at 10:12 AM.
    It's all about taking action and not being lazy. So you do the work, whether it's fitness or whatever. It's about getting up, motivating yourself and just doing it.
    - Kim Kardashian

    Donald Trump / Crenshaw 2024!!!!

    My pronouns are he/him/his

  7. #96
    Freedom at its core is a cultural phenomenon. And the culture of freedom, across the globe, has almost been universally replaced with a culture of big government.

    You can't just hand someone a libertarian pamphlet and expect them to change their culture. It's not even reasonable for them to change their culture over 10 years, 20 years, or their entire life.

    Culture happens over generations.

    There are a small portion of us that have managed to retain the culture of freedom.

    We can either recognize that we are the last bastion of freedom, and try to work together to a common purpose, or we can continue wasting our time trying to change the culture of other people.
    It's all about taking action and not being lazy. So you do the work, whether it's fitness or whatever. It's about getting up, motivating yourself and just doing it.
    - Kim Kardashian

    Donald Trump / Crenshaw 2024!!!!

    My pronouns are he/him/his



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  9. #97
    Quote Originally Posted by TheTexan View Post
    Up until recently, I used to travel a lot. Every week was out of town.

    I have spent countless hours at bars shooting the $#@! after work with total strangers, in pretty much every region of the country.
    I bet you can tell who they listen to just from hearing them regurgitate peoples talking points that have been repeated to them by their fake heroes.

    Quote Originally Posted by TheTexan View Post
    His assessment of people isn't some "elitist propaganda." It's reality.
    Again, you are inferring things or reading things from my posts that are not here. His assessment of people is correct. I keep pointing out over and over again the hand that got these people there.

    Quote Originally Posted by TheTexan View Post
    Understanding this, is key to how we move forward as a movement, and can start making real progress.

    The denial of this simple fact, that most people are simply incompatible with freedom, is what I primarily blame, for the stunted progress so far.
    I somewhat agree with some being problematic, however a significant part of that is the indoctrination they received.

    By the way, when I refer to the elites I am using it very broadly as indicted in my first post in this thread. I include the elite media, and if you think these outlets on the right are different then I have news for you they are not. They all run in the same circles, hold similar beliefs, funded by the same cabal and purely filling a niche - profit motive.
    * See my visitor message area for caveats related to my posting history here.
    * Also, I have effectively retired from all social media including posting here and are basically opting out of anything to do with national politics or this country on federal or state level and rather focusing locally. I may stop by from time to time to discuss philosophy on a general level related to Libertarian schools of thought and application in the real world.

  10. #98
    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post
    I'm not dismissing the rest of your post, as I happen to mostly agree, so I'm not going to comment.

    You are right, this is the entire point:

    This is the only point on which we, and @acptulsa, and quite a few other folks disagree on.

    I contend that "norming" point has already been reached.
    There is no stopping point. This indoctrination has been going on for over a 100 years for which there is no end to it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post
    Between the utter and total takeover of the education system by Marxists, the constant bleating of their propaganda throughout every media and entertainment organ, and the flood of immigrant invaders sympathetic to the cause of collectivism, that point has been reached.

    Yes, the elites orchestrated this, no doubt.

    But the damage is now done, the vessel is doomed and sinking.

    Measures must be taken now to save life, and indeed, western civilization, from utter annihilation.
    If to stop it the plan is to get on the bus with the elites controlled opposition that are taking the country in that direction the end result is obvious.

    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post
    Running around the wheelhouse arguing about whose fault it was to run into the iceberg is pointless right now.
    The way you want to go about stopping it is similar to Bush foreign policy after 9/11. Totally ignore that the terrorists came out of Saudi Arabia, attack Iraq and try to occupy Afghanistan.

    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post
    A SOLAS convention for western civilization must take place after the current crisis is dealt with.
    Last edited by kahless; 08-18-2021 at 11:46 AM.
    * See my visitor message area for caveats related to my posting history here.
    * Also, I have effectively retired from all social media including posting here and are basically opting out of anything to do with national politics or this country on federal or state level and rather focusing locally. I may stop by from time to time to discuss philosophy on a general level related to Libertarian schools of thought and application in the real world.

  11. #99
    Quote Originally Posted by kahless View Post
    I bet you can tell who they listen to just from hearing them regurgitate peoples talking points that have been repeated to them by their fake heroes.



    Again, you are inferring things or reading things from my posts that are not here. His assessment of people is correct. I keep pointing out over and over again the hand that got these people there.



    I somewhat agree with some being problematic, however a significant part of that is the indoctrination they received.

    By the way, when I refer to the elites I am using it very broadly as indicted in my first post in this thread. I include the elite media, and if you think these outlets on the right are different then I have news for you they are not. They all run in the same circles, hold similar beliefs, funded by the same cabal and purely filling a niche - profit motive.
    Again, you are inferring things or reading things that are not actually there.

    I never said that you didn't believe his assessment was incorrect. You "inferred" it, and you inferred it incorrectly.

    Sarcasm aside - the 2 sentences above are quite literally true. You shouldn't always assume that people are inferring things incorrectly, because you yourself may be inferring their inferrations incorrectly. Get what I mean? Either way, when you have to reply to pretty much every post with that exact statement (and not just to my posts), perhaps the issue is with you, not the way I or others are reading your posts? Just a thought.

    Now - semantics aside - the point:

    Regardless of how they "got there". The current state of affairs is that these people are incompatible with freedom. From what I can "infer", you agree with that statement.

    I don't give a $#@! how they "got there". Even if you flip a switch tomorrow and all the mainstream media just no longer exists, these people will still be incompatible with freedom, and they will continue to be incompatible with freedom, for 10, 20 years, or more likely their entire life.

    How we choose to react to that reality, is what we should be discussing. I have "inferred" that your plan is to try to de-program them. That plan, if it works at all, will take generations. If your end-game is to have your great-great-great grandchildren live in a utopia that you are never alive to see, then by all means, continue with your plan.

    If the idea is to try to achieve freedom in this life time? We need to recognize that these people are incompatible with freedom and move forward with an acceptance of that fact, rather than trying to change it.
    Last edited by TheTexan; 08-18-2021 at 11:49 AM.
    It's all about taking action and not being lazy. So you do the work, whether it's fitness or whatever. It's about getting up, motivating yourself and just doing it.
    - Kim Kardashian

    Donald Trump / Crenshaw 2024!!!!

    My pronouns are he/him/his

  12. #100
    Quote Originally Posted by TheTexan View Post
    ...Regardless of how they "got there". The current state of affairs is that these people are incompatible with freedom. From what I can "infer", you agree with that statement.

    I don't give a $#@! how they "got there". Even if you flip a switch tomorrow and all the mainstream media just no longer exists, these people will still be incompatible with freedom, and they will continue to be incompatible with freedom, for 10, 20 years, or more likely their entire life.

    How we choose to react to that reality, is what we should be discussing. I have "inferred" that your plan is to try to de-program them. That plan, if it works at all, will take generations. If your end-game is to have your great-great-great grandchildren live in a utopia that you are never alive to see, then by all means, continue with your plan.

    If the idea is to try to achieve freedom in this life time? We need to recognize that these people are incompatible with freedom and move forward with an acceptance of that fact, rather than trying to change it.
    People believe and will continue to believe what they have been conditioned to believe. Change the force fed conditioning, you change the people. What the elite media is doing to get them to where they are is not rocket science. The peoples memories are short to almost non-existent, to the recent news cycle and typically not greater than 6 months.

    Nothing you or I are saying right now is going to change the current direction we are going. The opposition I described does not exist yet and the opposition you think exists does not exist. They control the opposition. It is like a tug or war but given each cycle they will ensure the regular people in your opposition slowly adopt their new belief system as the norm.

    The choice is make the same mistakes as have been made over the last 100 years by joining the controlled opposition or fight the puppet masters to break the cycle.
    * See my visitor message area for caveats related to my posting history here.
    * Also, I have effectively retired from all social media including posting here and are basically opting out of anything to do with national politics or this country on federal or state level and rather focusing locally. I may stop by from time to time to discuss philosophy on a general level related to Libertarian schools of thought and application in the real world.

  13. #101
    Quote Originally Posted by TheTexan View Post
    One thing to keep in mind, is that we don't even need the "right" to be shining bastions of liberty.

    We literally only need them to hate the "left". And vice versa.

    If Left/Right hate each other, then there are opportunities for secession. Which is a positive outcome for liberty.

    Fortunately this hatred is progressing marvelously.
    @kahless

    Do you agree that:
    1) Conflict between groups is a prerequisite for and leads to secession
    2) Secession is always a good thing

    Where is the error in my reasoning here?

    And if secession is always a good thing, why does it matter if its "what the elites want" or not?
    Last edited by TheTexan; 08-18-2021 at 12:05 PM.
    It's all about taking action and not being lazy. So you do the work, whether it's fitness or whatever. It's about getting up, motivating yourself and just doing it.
    - Kim Kardashian

    Donald Trump / Crenshaw 2024!!!!

    My pronouns are he/him/his

  14. #102
    Quote Originally Posted by kahless View Post
    People believe and will continue to believe what they have been conditioned to believe. Change the force fed conditioning, you change the people. What the elite media is doing to get them to where they are is not rocket science. The peoples memories are short to almost non-existent, to the recent news cycle and typically not greater than 6 months.

    Nothing you or I are saying right now is going to change the current direction we are going. The opposition I described does not exist yet and the opposition you think exists does not exist. They control the opposition. It is like a tug or war but given each cycle they will ensure the regular people in your opposition slowly adopt their new belief system as the norm.

    The choice is make the same mistakes as have been made over the last 100 years by joining the controlled opposition or fight the puppet masters to break the cycle.
    If you permanently removed the propaganda the conditioning is still there.

    The average person's response to their neighbor playing loud music late at night? Call the police.

    The average person's response to their neighbor playing loud music 10 years after the propaganda has been turned off? Call the police.
    It's all about taking action and not being lazy. So you do the work, whether it's fitness or whatever. It's about getting up, motivating yourself and just doing it.
    - Kim Kardashian

    Donald Trump / Crenshaw 2024!!!!

    My pronouns are he/him/his

  15. #103
    Quote Originally Posted by TheTexan View Post
    @kahless

    Do you agree that:
    1) Conflict between groups is a prerequisite for and leads to secession
    2) Secession is always a good thing

    Where is the logic in my reasoning here?

    And if secession is always a good thing, why does it matter if its "what the elites want" or not?
    It is a good thing that they will never allow.

    btw - to your comment in rep. Obviously most of us here are involved in politics more so than the regular folks. That post you linked to in rep. was on topic related to conditioning and not meant to be insulting like your comment.

    It is true, you go out and talk to regular people about politics, in many cases you can tell the candidate they support and what talk show hosts they listen to. If the think tanks release a key talking point phrase to be said in the news cycle repeatedly that week, the following week I will hear people parrot it back to me.
    * See my visitor message area for caveats related to my posting history here.
    * Also, I have effectively retired from all social media including posting here and are basically opting out of anything to do with national politics or this country on federal or state level and rather focusing locally. I may stop by from time to time to discuss philosophy on a general level related to Libertarian schools of thought and application in the real world.

  16. #104
    Quote Originally Posted by kahless View Post
    If to stop it the plan is to get on the bus with the elites controlled opposition that are taking the country in that direction the end result is obvious.

    The way you want to go about stopping it is similar to Bush foreign policy after 9/11. Totally ignore that the terrorists came out of Saudi Arabia, attack Iraq and try to occupy Afghanistan.
    My plan is to separate, secede, form a new homeland under new geographical borders.

    No elite of any group that I know of is in favor of that.
    Another mark of a tyrant is that he likes foreigners better than citizens, and lives with them and invites them to his table; for the one are enemies, but the Others enter into no rivalry with him. - Aristotle's Politics Book 5 Part 11



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  18. #105
    Quote Originally Posted by TheTexan View Post
    If you permanently removed the propaganda the conditioning is still there.

    The average person's response to their neighbor playing loud music late at night? Call the police.

    The average person's response to their neighbor playing loud music 10 years after the propaganda has been turned off? Call the police.
    People can be easily conditioned. There is very little being done to combat a half century of conditioning. A grassroots social media campaign to mock that kind of behavior would effectively reduce that behavior after a few years. Even people that do not use social media, through word of mouth, the behavior would eventually be mocked.
    * See my visitor message area for caveats related to my posting history here.
    * Also, I have effectively retired from all social media including posting here and are basically opting out of anything to do with national politics or this country on federal or state level and rather focusing locally. I may stop by from time to time to discuss philosophy on a general level related to Libertarian schools of thought and application in the real world.

  19. #106
    Quote Originally Posted by kahless View Post
    It is a good thing that they will never allow.
    Whether they "allow it" or not, inspiring hatred between two groups is exactly what causes secession.

    Did the elites "allow" Brexit? I don't think that they did. And if they did "allow" it, then their agenda (in that case) was a good agenda.

    Secessions happen, whether they "allow it" or not.

    And hate/conflict, is how you get there.

    It is true, you go out and talk to regular people about politics, in many cases you can tell the candidate they support and what talk show hosts they listen to. If the think tanks release a key talking point phrase to be said in the news cycle repeatedly that week, the following week I will hear people parrot it back to me.
    You are way too obsessed with media and talking heads and what TV shows people watch. Who people vote for or what they watch, is not how I judge a person's character in this context. There are deep-seated behavioral issues in how people respond to conflict that have little to nothing to do with political parties or candidates or talking heads on TV.

    Take for example the loud neighbor example. Which talking head on CNN told them to call the police? None. They most likely obtained that behavior from their family or friends, and the behavior may have been reinforced by the behavior they saw on sitcoms or movies or what not. The point is, it's a cultural thing. They don't behave that way because a talking head told them to. And undoing that conditioning, is virtually impossible.
    Last edited by TheTexan; 08-18-2021 at 12:23 PM.
    It's all about taking action and not being lazy. So you do the work, whether it's fitness or whatever. It's about getting up, motivating yourself and just doing it.
    - Kim Kardashian

    Donald Trump / Crenshaw 2024!!!!

    My pronouns are he/him/his

  20. #107
    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post
    My plan is to separate, secede, form a new homeland under new geographical borders.

    No elite of any group that I know of is in favor of that.
    That's exactly what the elitists want, quit playing in their hands
    It's all about taking action and not being lazy. So you do the work, whether it's fitness or whatever. It's about getting up, motivating yourself and just doing it.
    - Kim Kardashian

    Donald Trump / Crenshaw 2024!!!!

    My pronouns are he/him/his

  21. #108
    Quote Originally Posted by kahless View Post
    By the way, when I refer to the elites I am using it very broadly as indicted in my first post in this thread. I include the elite media, and if you think these outlets on the right are different then I have news for you they are not. They all run in the same circles, hold similar beliefs, funded by the same cabal and purely filling a niche - profit motive.
    Just a FYI, I don't think anyone on this board thinks Fox is on our side.

    Maybe a few here think Tucker Carlson is a reasonable person.

    But Fox in general, no, I don't think anyone here is under that impression.

    And if you want to make the argument that even Tucker Carlson is an evil elitist, I would not disagree with much fervor.
    It's all about taking action and not being lazy. So you do the work, whether it's fitness or whatever. It's about getting up, motivating yourself and just doing it.
    - Kim Kardashian

    Donald Trump / Crenshaw 2024!!!!

    My pronouns are he/him/his

  22. #109
    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post
    My plan is to separate, secede, form a new homeland under new geographical borders.

    No elite of any group that I know of is in favor of that.
    I am on-board with that. The elitists would still be a problem but there would be greater chance of success against them than on a national level.

    They of course will try to stop it through fear mongering and if it they fail will try to control it from within. You will have the same establishment hacks from the Republican party, the news media and/or Hollywood claiming to be bastions of liberty with endless years of virtue signalling to drive the entity to where we are now. But it would be more manageable.
    Last edited by kahless; 08-18-2021 at 12:37 PM.
    * See my visitor message area for caveats related to my posting history here.
    * Also, I have effectively retired from all social media including posting here and are basically opting out of anything to do with national politics or this country on federal or state level and rather focusing locally. I may stop by from time to time to discuss philosophy on a general level related to Libertarian schools of thought and application in the real world.

  23. #110
    Quote Originally Posted by TheTexan View Post
    Whether they "allow it" or not, inspiring hatred between two groups is exactly what causes secession.

    Did the elites "allow" Brexit? I don't think that they did. And if they did "allow" it, then their agenda (in that case) was a good agenda.

    Secessions happen, whether they "allow it" or not.

    And hate/conflict, is how you get there.

    You are way too obsessed with media and talking heads and what TV shows people watch. Who people vote for or what they watch, is not how I judge a person's character in this context. There are deep-seated behavioral issues in how people respond to conflict that have little to nothing to do with political parties or candidates or talking heads on TV.

    Take for example the loud neighbor example. Which talking head on CNN told them to call the police? None. They most likely obtained that behavior from their family or friends, and the behavior may have been reinforced by the behavior they saw on sitcoms or movies or what not. The point is, it's a cultural thing. They don't behave that way because a talking head told them to. And undoing that conditioning, is virtually impossible.
    Sadly, the majority of people in this country follow the news media and TV shows in deciding who to vote for. If it was not that way and people actually researched then Rand or Ron and others would have been President.

    The police discussion comes up from time to time with those I know from the generation prior to or the early days of TV. Calling the police on anyone was unheard of during those days. You just did not do it. But after a half century of endless pro-police propaganda shows everyone does it now.
    Last edited by kahless; 08-18-2021 at 12:38 PM.
    * See my visitor message area for caveats related to my posting history here.
    * Also, I have effectively retired from all social media including posting here and are basically opting out of anything to do with national politics or this country on federal or state level and rather focusing locally. I may stop by from time to time to discuss philosophy on a general level related to Libertarian schools of thought and application in the real world.

  24. #111
    Quote Originally Posted by kahless View Post
    The police discussion comes up from time to time with those I know from the generation prior to or the early days of TV. Calling the police on anyone was unheard of during those days. You just did not do it. But after a half century of endless pro-police propaganda shows everyone does it now.
    Correct, and if the propaganda suddenly disappeared tomorrow, that behavior would still exist for at least 10-20 years before it started to fade.
    It's all about taking action and not being lazy. So you do the work, whether it's fitness or whatever. It's about getting up, motivating yourself and just doing it.
    - Kim Kardashian

    Donald Trump / Crenshaw 2024!!!!

    My pronouns are he/him/his

  25. #112
    Quote Originally Posted by TheTexan View Post
    Correct, and if the propaganda suddenly disappeared tomorrow, that behavior would still exist for at least 10-20 years before it started to fade.
    I doubt it. An animal dives back into its burrow a lot quicker than it sneaks cautiously out.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    We believe our lying eyes...



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  27. #113
    Quote Originally Posted by acptulsa View Post
    I doubt it. An animal dives back into its burrow a lot quicker than it sneaks cautiously out.
    Culture is more like a boulder that has been pushed across flat terrain. You can argue there is an ever-so-slight incline that would return the boulder to its previous position, should the forces currently pushing it disappear, but I think it's likely that the terrain is just flat and the boulder will stay exactly where it is unless a force physically starts to push it back.

    Getting rid of the elites will get rid of the forces that moved the boulder to its current position.

    But I don't see where that force to push it back would come from, except through secession.
    It's all about taking action and not being lazy. So you do the work, whether it's fitness or whatever. It's about getting up, motivating yourself and just doing it.
    - Kim Kardashian

    Donald Trump / Crenshaw 2024!!!!

    My pronouns are he/him/his

  28. #114
    You can throw this as another reason to separate pile.

    More Americans now say government should take steps to restrict false information online than in 2018
    https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tan...-than-in-2018/
    Last edited by kahless; 08-18-2021 at 03:24 PM.
    * See my visitor message area for caveats related to my posting history here.
    * Also, I have effectively retired from all social media including posting here and are basically opting out of anything to do with national politics or this country on federal or state level and rather focusing locally. I may stop by from time to time to discuss philosophy on a general level related to Libertarian schools of thought and application in the real world.

  29. #115
    Quote Originally Posted by Krugminator2 View Post
    There will be no dollar collapse. The United States is a productive dynamo churning out innovation after innovation despite government mismanagement. This isn't Venezuela or some banana republic where the government seizes the means of production and puts price controls on everything to deal with inflation. Free enterprise, risk, entrepreneurship are not as popular as they should be here but a huge percentage relative to other countries still believes in those things so they aren't going away anytime soon.

    I know doom is a popular talking point but look around you. Apple, Amazon, eBay, Google, Tesla, and all the zillion startups like Zoom, Square, etc are all American companies. Most of the worlds life changing medicines and medical devices are made by US companies. Most semiconductor companies are US based. Despite the worst efforts of government, wonderful oil companies are still finding innovative ways to get oil out of the ground and sell it for less than a jug of water at the gas station. Wall Street is still the place the world comes to park money and raise capital. Where are people going to go? China? And have some Communist government arbitrarily change the rules and seize a company? The United States still has a very good university system that creates human capital that produces geese that lay golden eggs.

    There will be slower growth than there otherwise should be because of government debt and unfunded liabilities. Regulation and a declining population are negatives. But life is going to continue to get better in the United States.
    I disagree. Most of those companies you mentioned don't make anything, they're just fluffy bubble companies that are riding a wave of cheap money. Most of them don't even make a profit. That doesn't happen in a real economy. We're not as bad as Venezuela but they're ranked almost last on any freedom list. I think eventually we'll do the right thing but only after the dollar collapses. Change happens when the pain of remaining the same is greater than the pain of doing nothing.

  30. #116
    Quote Originally Posted by kahless View Post
    TheTexan is promoting statist propaganda that falsely claims libertarians will not fight because of NAP. That is a lie. They are violating our NAP, that gives us the right to fight back. There is no contradiction in philosophy.

    No one here or anywhere claims 99.9% "non-elites" will suddenly unify. He pulled that completely out of his ass in defense of the status quo since that is what statists do, they defend the Republican establishment and their failed leaders.
    Hey Tex,
    I'll get off at the next stop. LOL

    We're being governed ruled by a geriatric Alzheimer patient/puppet whose strings are being pulled by an elitist oligarchy who believe they can manage the world... imagine the utter maniacal, sociopathic hubris!

  31. #117
    Libertarians gonna fight ? All two of them ?
    Do something Danke

  32. #118
    Quote Originally Posted by oyarde View Post
    Libertarians gonna fight ? All two of them ?
    Yeah...with each other.
    Another mark of a tyrant is that he likes foreigners better than citizens, and lives with them and invites them to his table; for the one are enemies, but the Others enter into no rivalry with him. - Aristotle's Politics Book 5 Part 11

  33. #119
    Quote Originally Posted by Pauls' Revere View Post
    Hey Tex,
    I'll get off at the next stop. LOL
    Kahless is promoting statist propaganda that falsely claims I was promoting statist propaganda that falsely claims libertarians will not fight because of NAP.

    That is a lie.

    I never said anything of the sort and he has pulled that completely out of his ass.

    My real position is such and has always consistently been:

    The Leftist $#@!ing nut-$#@!s have 100% violated the NAP. They deserve whatever wrath we can muster up to provide them with.
    Last edited by TheTexan; 08-18-2021 at 07:10 PM.
    It's all about taking action and not being lazy. So you do the work, whether it's fitness or whatever. It's about getting up, motivating yourself and just doing it.
    - Kim Kardashian

    Donald Trump / Crenshaw 2024!!!!

    My pronouns are he/him/his

  34. #120
    Quote Originally Posted by kahless View Post
    People can be easily conditioned.
    They can be reconditioned as well..
    Most I know are Pissed off..


    and most of them understand the targets.
    Liberty is lost through complacency and a subservient mindset. When we accept or even welcome automobile checkpoints, random searches, mandatory identification cards, and paramilitary police in our streets, we have lost a vital part of our American heritage. America was born of protest, revolution, and mistrust of government. Subservient societies neither maintain nor deserve freedom for long.
    Ron Paul 2004

    Registered Ron Paul supporter # 2202
    It's all about Freedom



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