Page 2 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast
Results 31 to 60 of 104

Thread: We Didn't Start the Movement (Alt Right Tribute Including R. Paul & M. Rothbard Appearances)

  1. #31
    I am a bit bothered by white nationalist stuff as well. I was saying last year that this will happen. I said wait till whites get scared then they will really f@ck $#@! up. And it is starting to happen.

    Honestly if we didn't have such bad enemies this stuff wouldn't be an issue. For example BLM is really nasty stuff. Its as bad as KKK. Now do you see KKK anywhere? No. But you see BLM. So I would say we need to destroy BLM before we police our own. Priorities people.

    Edit: and like BLM I could think of another ten groups that need to be prioritized. LaRaza, Bernie Bros, Hillary and etc.
    Last edited by silverhandorder; 08-24-2016 at 08:46 AM.



  2. Remove this section of ads by registering.
  3. #32
    Account Restricted. Admin to review account standing


    Posts
    28,739
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Quote Originally Posted by juleswin View Post
    Forget about banning him for the race baiting stuff he posts all the time, how about the fact that he was hardcore Trump supporting while Rand was in the race and still contesting. He would come out here and post dozens of articles on why Trump is good for liberty even the OP article trying to connect Ron Paul with the alt right when the alt right abhors libertarianism. He does this knowing that the ideologies supported by the people he supports goes against the mission of the website and liberty movement and it annoys most members with the exception of passive supporters who apparently are more annoyed by people tell AuH2O what not to post on the website.

    I would be just fine if all he did was post race baiting threads.
    I post so-called 'race baiting' threads intentionally because I am disgusted that a certain group continuously blames their own cultural dysfunction exclusively on police as well as 'white' taxpayers. At some point, one has to look at the mirror and change.

    If 'x' is a constant, 'y' has to change or the same results will continue to manifest. We live in a chaotic world in where the only modicum of control lies within the consciousness of an individual. Passing the buck consistently is both infantile and counterproductive. The scary thing is that this forum actually has enablers who help them pass the buck! We can all agree that police, the justice system and our entire societal system is hopelessly corrupt, but at the end of the day the individual makes the final determination to not play the fool. I could be burning down businesses too, but where does that get me?
    Last edited by AuH20; 08-24-2016 at 09:16 AM.



  4. Remove this section of ads by registering.
  5. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by AuH20 View Post
    I post so-called 'race baiting' threads intentionally because I am disgusted that a certain group continuously blames their own cultural dysfunction exclusively on police as well as 'white' taxpayers. At some point, one has to look at the mirror and change.

    If x is a constant, y has to change. We live in a chaotic world in which only the individual can control their behavior. Passing the buck is both infantile and counterproductive. The scary thing is that this forum actually has enablers who help them pass the buck! We can all agree that police, the justice system and our entire societal system is hopelessly corrupt, but at the end of the day the individual makes the final determination to not play the fool.
    Didn't I say that I did not have a problem with that? Btw, a few days back, you posted a video of some black protester getting hit by a car. You comment on it was how funny the distraught camera gal videoing the effect was sounding. That was just pure garbage that had nothing to do with addressing one race's cultural dysfunction and blaming white tax payers for their problem and it wasn't funny at all.

    Another disturbing post of yours was when someone said something about Rand Paul's outreach to the black community, saying that Rand wants to unite the country and bring us together, you chimed in saying something to the effect of "we don't want to be united". I think for reasons that maybe very legitimate, you really do not like black people and I am OK with that. Its just that your race baiting posts goes way beyond addressing the cultural dysfunction and blaming white tax payers for their problem.

  6. #34
    Account Restricted. Admin to review account standing


    Posts
    28,739
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Quote Originally Posted by juleswin View Post
    Didn't I say that I did not have a problem with that? Btw, a few days back, you posted a video of some black protester getting hit by a car. You comment on it was how funny the distraught camera gal videoing the effect was sounding. That was just pure garbage that had nothing to do with addressing one race's cultural dysfunction and blaming white tax payers for their problem and it wasn't funny at all.
    I should have clarified what I specifically found amusing. I was not mocking the guy who got hit by the vehicle. However, the hysterical woman's insinuation that police or another group were 'somehow' shooting at the protesters was what I found to be highly comical. It was later disclosed that a few idiots in that group decided it was a good idea to unload their weapons on the vehicle.

    Another disturbing post of yours was when someone said something about Rand Paul's outreach to the black community, saying that Rand wants to unite the country and bring us together, you chimed in saying something to the effect of "we don't want to be united". I think for reasons that maybe very legitimate, you really do not like black people and I am OK with that. Its just that your race baiting posts goes way beyond addressing the cultural dysfunction and blaming white tax payers for their problem.
    The promise of Unification is a political platitude used for deceit more than not. We supposedly 'unified' for Obamacare and TARP. Some of the worst legislation has been rolled through under the guise of bipartisanship. I personally hate the language of the enemy so that struck a chord. I have no problem with people living together in harmony, while not exploiting each other.

    Now to your second point. I don't hate black people. I hate what black people have fallen for. And this general distaste would probably apply to a a majority of the whites in this country.

    I also think that whites of today are looking at their future selves in the black community. You can already see it to a degree with the out of control heroin epidemic. Once learned hopelessness sets in, generational decline isn't far off. Go see the white ghettos that are springing up in Iowa and other midwestern locales.
    Last edited by AuH20; 08-24-2016 at 09:49 AM.

  7. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by silverhandorder View Post
    For example BLM is really nasty stuff. Its as bad as KKK.
    Please tell me this is sarcasm.


    Quote Originally Posted by silverhandorder View Post
    So I would say we need to destroy BLM before we police our own. Priorities people.
    Our own? You and the mouse?

  8. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by juleswin View Post
    Forget about banning him for the race baiting stuff he posts all the time, how about the fact that he was hardcore Trump supporting while Rand was in the race and still contesting. He would come out here and post dozens of articles on why Trump is good for liberty even the OP article trying to connect Ron Paul with the alt right when the alt right abhors libertarianism. He does this knowing that the ideologies supported by the people he supports goes against the mission of the website and liberty movement and it annoys most members with the exception of passive supporters who apparently are more annoyed by people tell AuH2O what not to post on the website.

    I would be just fine if all he did was post race baiting threads.
    I'm no Rand supporter, but if someone thinks Trump is the better Liberty candidate, they are lying to themselves.
    I am the spoon.

  9. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by TheCount View Post
    Please tell me this is sarcasm.




    Our own? You and the mouse?
    I hope not. They are as bad as the KKK.
    I am the spoon.

  10. #38
    Tomorrow in Reno, Hillary Clinton will speak about—as her press office put it—"Donald Trump and his advisors' embrace of the disturbing 'alt-right' political philosophy." Whether or not that speech helps Clinton's presidential bid, it will almost certainly help the alt-right.

    http://reason.com/blog/2016/08/24/cl...rump-alt-right
    Pfizer Macht Frei!

    Openly Straight Man, Danke, Awarded Top Rated Influencer. Community Standards Enforcer.


    Quiz: Test Your "Income" Tax IQ!

    Short Income Tax Video

    The Income Tax Is An Excise, And Excise Taxes Are Privilege Taxes

    The Federalist Papers, No. 15:

    Except as to the rule of appointment, the United States have an indefinite discretion to make requisitions for men and money; but they have no authority to raise either by regulations extending to the individual citizens of America.

  11. #39
    I think the relatively unknown Morrakiu youtube channel is the funniest & most interesting alt right website.



    He does have videos where he agrees with traditional modern dem liberals.
    BOWLING GREEN, Kentucky – Washington liberals are trying to push through the so-called DREAM Act, which creates an official path to Democrat voter registration for 2 million college-age illegal immigrants.
    Rand Paul 2010

    Booker T. Washington:
    Cast it down among the eight millions of Negroes whose habits you know, whose
    fidelity and love you have tested in days when to have proved treacherous meant the ruin of your firesides.

  12. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by phill4paul View Post
    Christ, what the forum has become. SMDH.
    If you look at web traffic within the libertyverse over the last few months, you find some interesting trends.

    RPF and LRC (lots of pro-Trump/alt-right content) are way down.

    Reason, CATO, and the LvMI (little if any pro-Trump/alt-right content) are way up.

    Coincidence?

    Maybe

    ...or maybe, despite monstrosities like "libertarians for Trump," most libertarians (online at least) still loathe him and what he represents.

    Before Bryan feels the need to jump in, yes, I know, RPF is not officially pro-Trump (in fact it's officially anti-Trump).

    But a newcomer unfamiliar with that policy might be forgiven for thinking it's pro-Trump by looking at what's posted here on routine basis.



  13. Remove this section of ads by registering.
  14. #41
    Account Restricted. Admin to review account standing


    Posts
    28,739
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Quote Originally Posted by RandallFan View Post
    I think the relatively unknown Morrakiu youtube channel is the funniest & most interesting alt right website.



    He does have videos where he agrees with traditional modern dem liberals.
    Did you see this one? The lyrics are hilarious. There is some sophistry & falsehoods thrown in, but some good points as well.

    Last edited by AuH20; 08-24-2016 at 06:02 PM.

  15. #42
    ^^^like that, for instance

  16. #43
    “I don’t think that there will be any curtailing of Donald Trump as president,” he said. "He controls the media, he controls the sentiment [and] he controls everybody. He’s the one who will resort to executive orders more so than [President] Obama ever used them." - Ron Paul

  17. #44
    Account Restricted. Admin to review account standing


    Posts
    28,739
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Jack Hunter coined the term? I never knew this.

    http://dailycaller.com/2016/08/24/wh...the-alt-right/

    The alt right is an online movement opposed to political correctness, multiculturalism, feminism and mainstream conservatism. It’s primarily comprised of young white men. While a large portion of its adherents are white nationalists, not all of the folks tweeting out the hashtag are concerned with enforcing Aryan supremacy. The alt right is an umbrella term which includes multiple ideologies — everyone from anarcho-capitalists, neo-monarchists, American nationalists, men’s rights advocates, “identitarians,” and even out-and-out neo-Nazis all claim to be apart of the alt right.

    The main activity of the alt right is trolling. The Google definition of trolling is to “make a deliberately offensive or provocative online posting with the aim of upsetting someone or eliciting an angry response from them.” The alt right getting a speech from Hillary Clinton is a sign their trolling is working.

    Where does the alt right come from? The term comes from “alternative right,” which was first formulated near the end of the Bush presidency to describe the anti-Bush Right. Ron Paul fans, paleoconservatives and anyone else who opposed the policies of the Bush administration — particularly the Iraq war — could be placed under this umbrella in the beginning. That was how it was described by future Rand Paul adviser Jack Hunter in a 2009 article urging for the movement to take a more libertarian turn.

  18. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by r3volution 3.0 View Post
    If you look at web traffic within the libertyverse over the last few months, you find some interesting trends.

    RPF and LRC (lots of pro-Trump/alt-right content) are way down.

    Reason, CATO, and the LvMI (little if any pro-Trump/alt-right content) are way up.

    Coincidence?

    Maybe

    ...or maybe, despite monstrosities like "libertarians for Trump," most libertarians (online at least) still loathe him and what he represents.

    Before Bryan feels the need to jump in, yes, I know, RPF is not officially pro-Trump (in fact it's officially anti-Trump).

    But a newcomer unfamiliar with that policy might be forgiven for thinking it's pro-Trump by looking at what's posted here on routine basis.
    Your pearls sir.

  19. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by ThePaleoLibertarian View Post
    The alt-right is not a libertarian movement, though there are libertarian elements within the alt-right. Pretty simple stuff. A country can't demonize whites, flood countries with low IQ and remove conservative politics from the mainstream due to voter demographics without a backlash. Progressives, globalists, left-libertarians and anyone else who hates them should look in the mirror; they caused this.

    BTW, #NRx>#altright.
    BTW, #Christ>#NRx+(all other lame philosophy combined).

    "Liberty comes from the Creator." - Ron Paul
    When a trumpet sounds in a city, do not the people tremble?
    When disaster comes to a city, has not the Lord caused it? Amos 3:6

  20. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by wizardwatson View Post
    BTW, #Christ>#NRx+(all other lame philosophy combined).

    "Liberty comes from the Creator." - Ron Paul
    You can say the idea of Liberty comes from the Creator, but God does absolutely nothing to ensure people adhere, which kind of makes it irrelevant in everyday life. As in, it takes active believers living and promoting liberty to make it functionally relevant on earth. A person on welfare for example does not believe in liberty, they can't because they know 100% the money they receive is taken by threat of violence or actual violence. All welfare recipients are non-liberty believers. All government workers do not believe in liberty for the same reason. All people in the US MILITARY ARE ANTI-LIBERTY. All devout Islamic people do not believe in liberty. All extremists that believe in reparations are non-liberty believers. etc... etc.. etc.. As all those things require force to implement.

    If liberty requires adherence to the NAP, then all those groups are anti-Christian God, if in fact "Liberty comes from the Creator" as they all profit from force on their behalf.


  21. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by John F Kennedy III View Post
    How do they not permaban a racist?
    Wow, I thought you supported freedom of speech, and diversity of opinion?

    Everything is now racist, so nothing is racist.



  22. Remove this section of ads by registering.
  23. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by AuH20 View Post
    I think that's your number one problem. You have become trapped in a herd game that you cannot possibly win.

    Let me let you in on a little secret. They think WE ARE ALL RACISTS. Anyone who advocates for a smaller state or personal sovereignty is always affixed with a racist label by the propaganda organs in this country.

    I have read articles outlining why Gary Johnson supporters are unabashed racists. Yes, squishy Penn Jilette like Gary Johnson supporters have been tarnished with the Scarlet 'R'. So stop worrying about what THESE HORRIBLE PEOPLE THINK and focus on the goals at hand. Stop lending power to the words that they so shamelessly use and the quicker they will flame out from overuse.
    Of course 'they' think we're all racists. And of course even those who don't will happily perpetuate the notion because it undermines the credibility of the libertarian argument.

    However, surprising as it is to have to point this out, there are actual racists out there, and some of them with a rather poor understanding of the principles underlying libertarianism are attempting to latch onto the philosophy and it's luminaries.

    Ron Paul does not espouse a racist world viewpoint. As libertarians (and I'm using that term rather broadly in this post in general), we recognize that racism is a collectivist viewpoint - I'm not a "race denier" in that I recognize there are distinct races; however, that in no way contradicts the fact that human beings are individually distinct and their race or ethnicity or any other superficiality determine their value. We may recognize some generalities among certain categorized human beings, but a libertarian does not assess the worth of one human being based upon those arbitrary categories.

    Only simple-minded jackasses do.

    You yourself may not be a racist - I don't know and I really don't give a $#@!. And there may well be many folks who identify themselves as members of the "alt-right" who aren't racist, either. But don't try to pretend that posting videos with all of this code language and imagery isn't racist. Everyone knows what a "cuck" is, and it's not some coincidental use of a word. It's an intentional signal, and it's racist in origin. I mean, if I try to claim I'm not a racist I just happen to refer to black folks as 'monkeys', I'd be full of $#@!, and everyone would know it. Same goes for you and the crowd you're choosing to run with.

  24. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by RestorationOfLiberty View Post
    Wow, I thought you supported freedom of speech, and diversity of opinion?
    What the hell are you talking about? You have no 'freedom of speech' here. You post here on the good grace of the owner of this site and his moderators. If he doesn't like what you're saying, you get thrown out, period.

    And I for one would applaud him if he did. Not because I don't want to debate you - no challenge there, really - but because the apparent pervasiveness of the garbage you and your ilk purvey in might be associated with Ron Paul and libertarianism generally by others who come here looking for information.

  25. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by A Son of Liberty View Post
    Of course 'they' think we're all racists. And of course even those who don't will happily perpetuate the notion because it undermines the credibility of the libertarian argument.

    However, surprising as it is to have to point this out, there are actual racists out there, and some of them with a rather poor understanding of the principles underlying libertarianism are attempting to latch onto the philosophy and it's luminaries.

    Ron Paul does not espouse a racist world viewpoint. As libertarians (and I'm using that term rather broadly in this post in general), we recognize that racism is a collectivist viewpoint - I'm not a "race denier" in that I recognize there are distinct races; however, that in no way contradicts the fact that human beings are individually distinct and their race or ethnicity or any other superficiality determine their value. We may recognize some generalities among certain categorized human beings, but a libertarian does not assess the worth of one human being based upon those arbitrary categories.

    Only simple-minded jackasses do.

    You yourself may not be a racist - I don't know and I really don't give a $#@!. And there may well be many folks who identify themselves as members of the "alt-right" who aren't racist, either. But don't try to pretend that posting videos with all of this code language and imagery isn't racist. Everyone knows what a "cuck" is, and it's not some coincidental use of a word. It's an intentional signal, and it's racist in origin. I mean, if I try to claim I'm not a racist I just happen to refer to black folks as 'monkeys', I'd be full of $#@!, and everyone would know it. Same goes for you and the crowd you're choosing to run with.

    Can you explain to me what a "cuck" is? Or should I say, "cuckservative"?
    Last edited by Danke; 08-26-2016 at 04:02 AM.
    Pfizer Macht Frei!

    Openly Straight Man, Danke, Awarded Top Rated Influencer. Community Standards Enforcer.


    Quiz: Test Your "Income" Tax IQ!

    Short Income Tax Video

    The Income Tax Is An Excise, And Excise Taxes Are Privilege Taxes

    The Federalist Papers, No. 15:

    Except as to the rule of appointment, the United States have an indefinite discretion to make requisitions for men and money; but they have no authority to raise either by regulations extending to the individual citizens of America.

  26. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by Danke View Post
    Can you explain to me what a "cuck" is? Or should I say, "cuckservative"?
    Quote Originally Posted by A Son of Liberty View Post
    People are either being deceptive or are ignorant of the fact that the popular internet usage of the "cuck-" root is racist - a "cuckold" is an emasculated white men whose women prefer to have sex with black males.

    Referring to people as a "cuck" infers that they're pussified, and are being dominated by teh negroes.
    //

  27. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by A Son of Liberty View Post
    //
    Not quite,

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cuckold
    Pfizer Macht Frei!

    Openly Straight Man, Danke, Awarded Top Rated Influencer. Community Standards Enforcer.


    Quiz: Test Your "Income" Tax IQ!

    Short Income Tax Video

    The Income Tax Is An Excise, And Excise Taxes Are Privilege Taxes

    The Federalist Papers, No. 15:

    Except as to the rule of appointment, the United States have an indefinite discretion to make requisitions for men and money; but they have no authority to raise either by regulations extending to the individual citizens of America.

  28. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by TheCount View Post
    Please tell me this is sarcasm.




    Our own? You and the mouse?
    Oh look at you clutch your pearls. I don't think you are conservative or libertarian. BLM is a good litmus test.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cowlesy View Post
    Americans in general are jedi masters of blaming every other person.

  29. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by Danke View Post
    Okay. The implicit racism is just a coincidence.

    Carry on.

  30. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by A Son of Liberty View Post
    Okay. The implicit racism is just a coincidence.

    Carry on.
    Lol. Someone has been watching too much porn.

    Carry on.
    Pfizer Macht Frei!

    Openly Straight Man, Danke, Awarded Top Rated Influencer. Community Standards Enforcer.


    Quiz: Test Your "Income" Tax IQ!

    Short Income Tax Video

    The Income Tax Is An Excise, And Excise Taxes Are Privilege Taxes

    The Federalist Papers, No. 15:

    Except as to the rule of appointment, the United States have an indefinite discretion to make requisitions for men and money; but they have no authority to raise either by regulations extending to the individual citizens of America.



  31. Remove this section of ads by registering.
  32. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by A Son of Liberty View Post
    Okay. The implicit racism is just a coincidence.

    Carry on.
    Oh the implicit racism.

    Well I explicitly think you are just grabbing at straws. It don't work anymore.

  33. #58
    Please understand that I really don't give a s*** what either of you think. There's not a person on this forum that I know personally and I don't post here enough to care. It's clear that the alt Right Movement bears some strong racist undertones. If you both want to pretend that the collectivist language of race, the Nazi inspired graphics, and the use of cuckold are poetic license or just coincidence that's fine I don't care. I would say it's safe to assume that isnt the case. I would say it's safe to assume that you know exactly what it is. It's a shame you're too damned scared to just be honest about it.

    And for the record I don't give a f*** what the left or black people or anybody thinks of me either. I'm calling a spade a spade on this. Racial identity is a collectivist concept and has no place libertarian thought.

  34. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by RonPaulIsGreat View Post
    You can say the idea of Liberty comes from the Creator, but God does absolutely nothing to ensure people adhere, which kind of makes it irrelevant in everyday life. As in, it takes active believers living and promoting liberty to make it functionally relevant on earth. A person on welfare for example does not believe in liberty, they can't because they know 100% the money they receive is taken by threat of violence or actual violence. All welfare recipients are non-liberty believers. All government workers do not believe in liberty for the same reason. All people in the US MILITARY ARE ANTI-LIBERTY. All devout Islamic people do not believe in liberty. All extremists that believe in reparations are non-liberty believers. etc... etc.. etc.. As all those things require force to implement.

    If liberty requires adherence to the NAP, then all those groups are anti-Christian God, if in fact "Liberty comes from the Creator" as they all profit from force on their behalf.

    I only chimed in to remind certain people here on this thread that there are some of us who don't buy into this idea that Neo-Reactionary/Paleo philosophies are worth a crap, and also to remind those same people that Ron Paul, whose ideas this site was founded on, was not an amoralist, and would in no way condone these monarchist/nationalistic governmental systems/philosophies that people float around.

    So on the surface, my comment wasn't meant to be insightful or "grasped" at all. It was more of a way of reminding people that Ron Paul is a Christian and wouldn't at all approve of all these half-baked philosophies. Just throwing some holy water at some of the demons lurking around here.

    But since you responded...

    We both posted a video, me of Ron Paul speaking more to the philosophical/theological roots of liberty, and you of Ron Paul broadly defining liberty in a very secular way, in relation to "not using force".

    I think though, in the video you posted Ron is over-generalizing to that lady. People who say "NAP" really mean don't "initiate" force. And Ron I think is referring to "not using force", not so much in the NAP sense, but in the sense of not achieving political goals via the use of force. As to whether taxes are part of that unjust force, I would say they don't have to be, but pretty much are now at this point in our nation. If the taxes are constitutional, and the use of those revenues is for consitutionally delimited powers, then it doesn't necessarily have to be the case that "taxes are coercion" or otherwise unjust.

    Taxes, revenues should be raised in a just manner for a just cause. If done that way, then they don't have to be in and of themselves an injustice.

    Of course, given all the unconsitutional entities and programs that currently exist, the current tax system, welfare system, and military system are all part of this unjust system as you point out.

    There are people who have tried to twist the idea of "liberty" to mean prosperity. But liberty really just means "freedom from injustice", or "freedom from tyranny". As Ron Paul outlines in Liberty Defined, "exercise human rights in any manner a person chooses so long as it does not interfere with the exercise of the rights of others".

    Ron Paul says it that way to outline, not so much what you ought to do as what you ought not do. "Interfering" with your neighbors "rights" is to oppress him. So while nowadays people like to talk about "rights" rather than "justice", I believe justice is the better vocabularly. Easier to say "don't oppress your neighbor" than "exercise your rights without interfering with the rights of others". Because this just begs the question, "what DO I have the right to do?" And the answer is, "well, you DON'T have the right to oppress your neighbor. Rob him of his life, his property, enslave him, etc."

    The two most obvious things are you don't take a man's property and you don't take a man's life.

    So what is liberty, ultimately? It's just not being unjust. Being righteous. Doing the right thing. Adhering to the rule of law. In this country, on a political level, that means following the constitution. It's really only "special" in this time and place because no one is adhering, or adherence is rare at least.

    Really it's common sense that you don't achieve your goals with blind oppressive force. But current society is in such a state, where violence is looked upon as a virtue and they need to be educated better.

    Quote Originally Posted by RonPaulIsGreat View Post
    You can say the idea of Liberty comes from the Creator, but God does absolutely nothing to ensure people adhere, which kind of makes it irrelevant in everyday life. As in, it takes active believers living and promoting liberty to make it functionally relevant on earth.
    The whole point of laying all my thoughts on "liberty" out, was simply to make clear that to me, nothing is really new or special about the "philosophy" of liberty. It's simply the enlightened view that the rule of law is preferable to tribalism/nationalism/collectivism with 'might makes right' at its root.

    And when we talk about law, people will ask "what law?" As in, who decides what law is? Adherents of "natural law" will dance around the idea of the law coming from somewhere, but Christians know exactly where the law comes from, or at least, they believe it comes from somewhere particular.

    It is true that we know right from wrong by our own conscious. Even the bible says this: Jeremiah 31:33 "I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts".

    But if you forget who put that law there, which nations and men most certainly have, it isn't good for you. Far from being irrelevant, detaching the concept of righteousness, freedom, liberty, "goodness" from the Author of it, is precisely the root of the problem. In His view anyway.

    ...

    Now, I could go into a rant concerning the Christian mechanics of why man has fallen away, and God's reasons for allowing it but I think you're coming from a more pragmatic angle. In essence, "Well, God clearly isn't showing himself so we're on our own to make a better world."

    I'm also of this mindset, or at least have been historically. Last couple years or so I've been in a more contemplative mindset, but I get it.

    What I found though in my later attempts at furthering group action is that there indeed is a spiritual component (mental if you prefer) that prevents group action. You mention "active believers living and promoting liberty" but where are they? And what is the test?

    It is a small matter to concoct strategies for group action. I'm no expert but even I've outlined a few here and there. But any rule-based economic idea invariably involves other humans imagining in their minds how others will participate in the system. And the way they envision other humans participating is a good reflection on how they themselves would think and act in the system. And even though people generally assume a minority of other humans are "bad actors", their actions and assessment of rule-based systems seems to indicate they believe the vast majority of people are either immoral, or prone to acting immoral where even a minimal incentive to act immoral exists.

    This isn't to say the vast majority of humans aren't immoral or wicked. Certainly a Christian can't argue here.

    But what ARE we to do as individuals when we don't even know if we are around individuals who intend to do good in life? Do we just give them the benefit of the doubt? What is the test of goodness? How do we know whether anyone on this forum is truly sincere about liberty and not simply filled with vanity and delighting in hearing themselves talk?

    I used to think Ron Paul's ideas were the litmus test. But now he's mostly a memory. Because he was popular much of his vocabulary has been co-opted and everyone tries to sound like him, without taking the essence along with it.

    So I take refuge in where all this "law" stuff ultimately originated: The judeo-christian belief system. It may not be truly "believed" but by a tiny minority these days, but it is indeed, in my opinion, intellectually unassailable for one who understands it correctly. And I believe it's Paul's faith that has made him shining light in a sea of cookie-cutter corrupt politicians.

    So I don't think it's "irrelevant" to mention liberty comes from the Creator. It points to the root of the law. Who gave you the life that you live, and wrote the commandments in stone that forbids others to destroy it.

    But I concede your point that from a pragmatic angle (rather than a spiritual angle, which might be useless to the secular and agnostic), in relation to "the state of the world and society" it might seem fruitless. For that we do need strategies and plans and rule-based solutions. But again, where is the men who would follow such a thing? What is the test? We're just Pitt talking to Willis in the asylum.

    I haven't even been motivated to write/post much lately. Don't know what to say anymore really. Don't know who would hear. Not despairing about it or anything, just don't have any ideas at the moment I think are worth speaking about. Still reading and thinking as usual.

    Not closing the door either, if I see someone with real interest to talk, or alternatively, I see some idiot spreading evil and lies. That tends to motivate me too.
    When a trumpet sounds in a city, do not the people tremble?
    When disaster comes to a city, has not the Lord caused it? Amos 3:6

  35. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by John F Kennedy III View Post
    I hope not. They are as bad as the KKK.
    Absolutely. And better connected.
    "The Patriarch"

Page 2 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast


Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •