View Poll Results: Is The President of the United States Mentally Ill?

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Thread: Is The President of the United States Mentally Ill?

  1. #1

    Is The President of the United States Mentally Ill?

    An oldie but a goodie, seeming apropos given recent events, presented without further comment:

    a psychologist warned that fellow doctors have a responsibility to point out that President Donald Trump exhibits clear signs of mental illness and shouldn’t be trusted with the nuclear codes.

    Speaking with host Lawrence O’Donnell, Dr. John Gartner claimed, Trump is a “paranoid, psychopathic, narcissist who is divorced from reality” who will put the nation at risk.

    “If we could construct a psychiatric Frankenstein monster, we could not create a leader more dangerously mentally ill than Donald Trump,” Gartner began. “He is a paranoid, psychopathic, narcissist who is divorced from reality and lashes out impulsively at his imagined enemies. And this is someone, as you said, who is handling the nuclear codes.”

    It has long been a policy within the psychiatric community to not diagnose individuals without personally interviewing them, but Gartner — who works as a therapist in Baltimore and New York City — warned that, in the case of Trump, that should be set aside because there is ample evidence based on Trump’s public utterances.

    “I would argue to my colleagues that those who don’t speak out are being unethical,” he stated. “If we have some knowledge and understanding about the unique danger that Donald Trump presents through our psychiatric training and don’t say something about it, history is not going to judge us kindly.”

    Appearing with Gartner, Dr. Lance Dodes also warned against not taking a hard look at Trump’s mental state, which he believes disqualifies him from holding the highest office in the land.

    “He lies because of his sociopathic tendencies that Dr. Gartner was talking about,” Dodes suggested. “He lies in the way anybody who scams people does. He’s tried to sell an idea or a product by telling you something that is untrue. There is also the kind of lie he has that in a way is more serious — that he has a loose grip on reality. We can say that because he lies about things that aren’t that important.”
    http://www.rawstory.com/2017/02/psyc...gined-enemies/
    Last edited by r3volution 3.0; 08-04-2017 at 05:54 PM.



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  3. #2
    Dump has an exaggerated public persona, but that is showmanship not insanity.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  4. #3
    A medical fascism coup.

    I have no $#@!ing clue if he is or is not, and neither does the TV "psychologist".


  5. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Dump has an exaggerated public persona, but that is showmanship not insanity.
    Which of the following, in your view, were showman and which were insane:

    a) Jim Jones
    b) Adolf Hitler
    c) Huey Long
    d) Charlie Manson

  6. #5
    I suspect most politicians are mentally unstable.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Paul View Post
    The intellectual battle for liberty can appear to be a lonely one at times. However, the numbers are not as important as the principles that we hold. Leonard Read always taught that "it's not a numbers game, but an ideological game." That's why it's important to continue to provide a principled philosophy as to what the role of government ought to be, despite the numbers that stare us in the face.
    Quote Originally Posted by Origanalist View Post
    This intellectually stimulating conversation is the reason I keep coming here.

  7. #6

  8. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by r3volution 3.0 View Post
    Which of the following, in your view, were showman and which were insane:

    a) Jim Jones
    b) Adolf Hitler
    c) Huey Long
    d) Charlie Manson
    I have had even less exposure to any of them than I have had to Dump so I couldn't say for sure, but I have seen some rather convincing conspiracy theories that would say that A, B, and D were front men for con-jobs, the same might be true of C.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  9. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    I have had even less exposure to any of them than I have had to Dump so I couldn't say for sure, but I have seen some rather convincing conspiracy theories that would say that A, B, and D were front men for con-jobs, the same might be true of C.
    Well, my impression is that all of them, including the current leader of the "free world," were/are narcissistic sociopaths (but I suppose I repeat myself - not sure of the clinical terminology, as I'm not a psychologist). Not all politicians are this way (@Suzanimal); most just want money. The really dangerous ones aren't interested in money at all; they want applause, love applause, will do anything for applause, even kill millions of people for applause. And, no, I'm not saying Trump is going to be killing millions of people (neither did Jones or Long or Manson), only that he is not an altogether odd fit in such company, and I can rather appreciate the views of this clinician who wrote the article.



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  11. #9
    LOL. The desperation of snowflakes never ends.


    Don't Call Trump "Crazy": The Dangers of Pathologizing Bad Politics
    Saturday, February 04, 2017 By Kelly Hayes, Truthout | Interview



    The word "crazy" is deployed in many contexts in our society, often in a manner that implies abhorrent behavior must be linked to mental illness. Throughout Donald Trump's presidential campaign, and the early weeks of his presidency, it has proven nearly impossible to traverse social media -- or press coverage of the president -- without encountering language that describes Trump as "insane," a "lunatic" or clinically narcissistic. Some have even argued that it's "okay" to assess a public figure's mental health from a distance, despite longstanding psychiatric standards that prohibit such speculative diagnoses. The ethics that prohibit such diagnoses have, however, had little effect on public narratives that depict Trump as being "insane."

    Comedian and daytime talk show host Joy Behar recently urged celebrity psychiatrist Dr. Phil McGraw to join that chorus by diagnosing Trump with Narcissistic Personality Disorder, during an interview on the ABC talk show "The View." McGraw declined.

    Psychologist John Gartner, a part-time assistant professor of psychiatry at Johns Hopkins University Medical School, has publicly stated that Trump has "a serious mental illness that renders him psychologically incapable of competently discharging the duties of President of the United States," diagnosing him with "malignant narcissism." Gartner has gone so far as to create a petition, which encourages mental health care professionals to cosign his assessment, and demand Trump's removal on the basis of his supposed mental health problems. The petition has accrued 17,479 signatures, though it's unclear which of these individuals are mental health care professionals, since many did not fulfill Gartner's request that all signatories list their psychiatric credentials.

    However, not all psychiatrists are jumping on board with the narcissism diagnosis. One such skeptic is Dr. Allen Frances, who wrote the clinical criteria for Narcissistic Personality Disorder. Frances was the chair of the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM) IV Task Force and of the department of psychiatry at Duke University School of Medicine, in Durham, North Carolina. He is currently a professor emeritus at Duke University. Frances, whose criteria for narcissism are still used today, has stated that Trump does not meet those criteria, and has been outspoken in his critiques of efforts to pathologize Trump from a distance. After firing off a series of tweets that once again stirred attention around his arguments, Frances agreed to talk with Truthout about the controversy, and why characterizing Trump as mentally ill is downright dangerous.

    Your recent comments on Twitter provided a profound interruption to the "insanity" narrative that's been spun around Trump, both in the press and on social media. Can you talk a bit about your role in creating the diagnostic criteria for narcissism?

    I wrote the criteria in 1978 for the DSM-III, and it's the same criteria used for the DSM-V today. I was actively involved in the creation of DSM-111 and DSM III-R. I was chair of the task force for the DSM-IV, and I have been openly critical of DSM-V.

    As a writer who's been open about my own struggles with mental illness, I've always found characterizations of Trump as being "crazy" or "narcissistic" troubling. But those of us who've objected have found it nearly impossible to interrupt the "insanity" narrative. Can you talk about why you've chosen to be outspoken on the subject?

    [Dr. Allen Frances]: It's an insult to people who have real mental illness to be lumped with Trump. Most people with mental illness are well-meaning, well-mannered and well-behaved. And Trump is none of these. Trump is bad, not mad. And when bad people are labelled mentally ill, it stigmatizes mental illness.

    Can you explain why Trump doesn't fit the criteria for narcissism?

    In order to qualify for a mental disorder you not only have to have the personality features, you also have to have clinically significant distress or impairment caused by them. Trump causes distress, but there is no evidence that he experiences it. And instead of being impaired by his narcissistic behavior, he is rewarded for it, to the extent of being elected president of the United States.


    Why do you think people feel the need to pathologize Trump? Do you think it's rooted in a need to distance ourselves from his behavior?

    I think people are understandably terrified by the very grave threat Trump presents to American democracy, our relation to other countries and -- scariest -- global warming. People are appalled at Trump's policies … are searching for any avenue to discredit him, but the focus of attack should be on the egregious ignorance and unfairness of the policies and on the incompetence, self-absorption and impulsiveness of the man -- not on the losing struggle to prove he has a mental illness. Psychiatric name-calling is the least effective way to win an argument.

    I think that it's very important that Trump and his policies be de-legitimized. But it's unwise to do it on the basis of being mentally disordered. It's important to attack his policies in every possible way, but misdiagnosing him as mentally ill distracts from what should be a laser-like focus on how bad his actions and policies are. Trump requires a full-court political response, not a phony medicalization.

    Given Trump's extreme positions -- which are already inspiring violence -- it's struck me as especially dangerous that people are labeling his behavior as being the product of mental illness. It seems like a manifestation of historical amnesia, given that entire populations have, at times, been led to commit atrocities, amid flurries of brutal politics. Do you think our refusal to recognize that shadow side of human potential could harm efforts to thwart Trump?

    I see Trump as a wannabe Mussolini, but not nearly as smart and much more impulsive, and therefore more dangerous. The way out of this is not psychiatric; it's political. If there is any patriotism left in the GOP, it will stop exploiting Trump, and begin opposing the many things he is doing that are harmful to our country. Rather than psychiatric name-calling, everyone who recognizes the danger of Trump must do everything possible to reduce the political dominance of the Republican party, which is enabling his dangerous behavior. So, the focus should be on demonstrations now, and on the 2018 and 2020 elections.


    http://www.truth-out.org/news/item/3...g-bad-politics
    Last edited by NorthCarolinaLiberty; 08-04-2017 at 06:35 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by TheCount View Post
    ...I believe that when the government is capable of doing a thing, it will.
    Quote Originally Posted by Influenza View Post
    which one of yall fuckers wrote the "ron paul" racist news letters
    Quote Originally Posted by Dforkus View Post
    Zippy's posts are a great contribution.




    Disrupt, Deny, Deflate. Read the RPF trolls' playbook here (post #3): http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...eptive-members

  12. #10
    Better put Nurse Ratched on the case. I know I could sure use some medication.


    Quote Originally Posted by TheCount View Post
    ...I believe that when the government is capable of doing a thing, it will.
    Quote Originally Posted by Influenza View Post
    which one of yall fuckers wrote the "ron paul" racist news letters
    Quote Originally Posted by Dforkus View Post
    Zippy's posts are a great contribution.




    Disrupt, Deny, Deflate. Read the RPF trolls' playbook here (post #3): http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...eptive-members

  13. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post
    A medical fascism coup.

    Pretty much this. People are so emotionally fragile and dependent that they are willing to trade one brand of authoritarianism for another brand of authoritarianism.
    Quote Originally Posted by TheCount View Post
    ...I believe that when the government is capable of doing a thing, it will.
    Quote Originally Posted by Influenza View Post
    which one of yall fuckers wrote the "ron paul" racist news letters
    Quote Originally Posted by Dforkus View Post
    Zippy's posts are a great contribution.




    Disrupt, Deny, Deflate. Read the RPF trolls' playbook here (post #3): http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...eptive-members

  14. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by NorthCarolinaLiberty View Post
    LOL. The desperation of snowflakes never ends.
    Am I a snowflake buttercup?

  15. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by r3volution 3.0 View Post
    Am I a snowflake buttercup?

    If that's all you got to what I posted, then it sounds like it.
    Quote Originally Posted by TheCount View Post
    ...I believe that when the government is capable of doing a thing, it will.
    Quote Originally Posted by Influenza View Post
    which one of yall fuckers wrote the "ron paul" racist news letters
    Quote Originally Posted by Dforkus View Post
    Zippy's posts are a great contribution.




    Disrupt, Deny, Deflate. Read the RPF trolls' playbook here (post #3): http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...eptive-members

  16. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by r3volution 3.0 View Post
    Am I a snowflake buttercup?
    What kind of dining set defines you as a person?

  17. #15

  18. #16
    Confabulation is my guess.

    In psychiatry, confabulation (verb: confabulate) is a disturbance of memory, defined as the production of fabricated, distorted, or misinterpreted memories about oneself or the world, without the conscious intention to deceive. People who confabulate present incorrect memories ranging from "subtle alterations to bizarre fabrications", and are generally very confident about their recollections, despite contradictory evidence.

    It could be that he doesn't even know that he's lying.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Pinochet is the model
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Liberty preserving authoritarianism.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Enforced internal open borders was one of the worst elements of the Constitution.



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  20. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by nikcers View Post
    What kind of dining set defines you as a person?

  21. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by enhanced_deficit View Post
    This Q is limited to just very recent/current Prez only or recent past more violent/ISIS friendly type Prez also can be considered?

    Related

    Controversial Opinion: Drone Killings a Sexual Thrill for Obama
    Drone Strikes Up 432 Percent Donald Under Trump

    Quote Originally Posted by NorthCarolinaLiberty View Post
    If that's all you got to what I posted, then it sounds like it.
    Does snowflakery consist in criticizing socialism?

  22. #19
    No. And I would bet a not insignificant number of very successful people have the same mental make up as Trump. I think if you looked at people from Tiger Woods, Michael Jordan, Steve Jobs, or Oprah, you would find a certain amount of self-delusion.

    I'm reading The Narrow Road by Felix Dennis. I think he was a better businessman than Trump. But if he were in politics, he would definitely get called crazy.

  23. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    I have had even less exposure to any of them than I have had to Dump so I couldn't say for sure, but I have seen some rather convincing conspiracy theories that would say that A, B, and D were front men for con-jobs, the same might be true of C.
    So what's the con job going on right now?

  24. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by r3volution 3.0 View Post
    Well, my impression is that all of them, including the current leader of the "free world," were/are narcissistic sociopaths (but I suppose I repeat myself - not sure of the clinical terminology, as I'm not a psychologist). Not all politicians are this way (@Suzanimal); most just want money. The really dangerous ones aren't interested in money at all; they want applause, love applause, will do anything for applause, even kill millions of people for applause. And, no, I'm not saying Trump is going to be killing millions of people (neither did Jones or Long or Manson), only that he is not an altogether odd fit in such company, and I can rather appreciate the views of this clinician who wrote the article.
    That's a nice way of saying he's insane.

  25. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by r3volution 3.0 View Post
    Which of the following, in your view, were showman and which were insane:

    a) Jim Jones
    b) Adolf Hitler
    c) Huey Long
    d) Charlie Manson
    You think Huey was insane ?
    Do something Danke

  26. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by timosman View Post
    That's a nice way of saying he's insane.
    Tell me more.

  27. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by timosman View Post
    So what's the con job going on right now?
    Many different ones
    Last edited by Swordsmyth; 08-04-2017 at 09:18 PM.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment



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  29. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by oyarde View Post
    You think Huey was insane ?
    Huey was a hillybilly conman, a sociopath who would do anything for...



    ...just like Chief Orange Hair.

  30. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by r3volution 3.0 View Post
    Huey was a hillybilly conman,
    Like you would have any idea about who Huey Long was. You have awfully strong opinions about things there is no way you could know anything about.

    *you* are the sociopath narcissist.

    Lucky for the world, all your time is wasted in front of your monitor.

  31. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by UWDude View Post
    Like you would have any idea about who Huey Long was. You have awfully strong opinions about things there is no way you could know anything about.

    *you* are the sociopath narcissist.

    Lucky for the world, all your time is wasted in front of your monitor.

  32. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by UWDude View Post
    Like you would have any idea about who Huey Long was. You have awfully strong opinions about things there is no way you could know anything about.

    *you* are the sociopath narcissist.

    Lucky for the world, all your time is wasted in front of your monitor.
    I would like to remind you calling other people trolls is against the site policy.

  33. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by r3volution 3.0 View Post

    Does snowflakery consist in criticizing socialism?
    Is changing your topic from mental health to government systems an example of bait and switch?



    Quote Originally Posted by TheCount View Post
    It could be that he doesn't even know that he's lying.

    That irony is funny coming from you.
    Quote Originally Posted by TheCount View Post
    ...I believe that when the government is capable of doing a thing, it will.
    Quote Originally Posted by Influenza View Post
    which one of yall fuckers wrote the "ron paul" racist news letters
    Quote Originally Posted by Dforkus View Post
    Zippy's posts are a great contribution.




    Disrupt, Deny, Deflate. Read the RPF trolls' playbook here (post #3): http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...eptive-members

  34. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by NorthCarolinaLiberty View Post
    Is changing your topic from mental health to government systems an example of bait and switch?
    You accuse me of being a "snowflake" for calling into question's the idiot's competence.

    I'm asking you why.

    So, why? What does this term "snowflake" mean?

    Does it mean "one who would criticize Trump (such as, for his socialism)?

    If there isn't something you like about Trump (such as, his socialism), why do you defend his incompetence?

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