WH pushes back after Rand Paul suggests Trump asked him to deliver letter to Putin

[Swordsmyth]

don't take your eye off of Iran, the Russian government has every incentive to prop up the Iranian regime in order to prop up their own regime. If America wanted to target Russia they would target their allies and regimes that are friendly with them in order to keep them contained and isolated.

I never take my eye off of any piece of foreign policy but R3v was trying to move the goal posts, Rand is working on Russian relations and R3v wants to talk about Iran as if that proves Rand is doing no good by going to Russia.

[nikcers]

Certainly so, but when everyone else in the party is not even bothering to ask 'how high' that doesn't mean much.



If that were the main issue, the last thing Rand would've done is go meet Gorbachev.

They are attacking him everywhere right now. They've been pushing this narrative that Rand is somehow working for the Russians, Rand couldn't find a better political ally than Trump's populist supporters who have been hypnotized into thinking and selling the idea that the Russian collusion narrative was an inside job manufactured by Hillary Clinton in order to win the 2016 election.

[Swordsmyth]

Certainly so, but when everyone else in the party is not even bothering to ask 'how high' that doesn't mean much.

LOL, the Republican party is full of NeverTrumpers.
Even if it wasn't Rand calls them as he sees them and that gets him more respect and credibility with the public than if he was either a blind NeverTrumper or a blind TrumpFan.

If that were the main issue, the last thing Rand would've done is go meet Gorbachev.

Your kind of thinking would have us at war with Russia by now, when the Propaganda ministry puts sends out the signal for a crusade someone has to defy it or the herd will stampede.

Don't misunderstand me: Rand is still by far the best Senator. I'm just disappointed with how he;s playing this game.

As I said back in 2016, he should have publicly told orange retard to get $#@!ed; Rand's not up for reelection for years.

That way Trump's supporters would hate Rand's guts and never listen to him in the future, I think Rand is smarter than you.

[r3volution 3.0]

This just shows how shallow your understanding of Nationalism and putting America first is, the DoD is the biggest black hole in the budget and putting America first will mean ending the wars, retracting the empire and slashing its budget to the bone, it also means cutting taxes and regulations to unleash our economy and ending entitlements that encourage people to not produce.

And, if I click my heels three times and say "Trump," this will occur, or not?

Sorry but you are wrong, even if you were right and Trump personally killed your golden age there is no path back to it through destroying him, the only way forward is to harness the movement he built and bend it in our direction, Rand understands that and you don't.

The movement that the reality television character built is defined by hostility to foreigners, pure and simple. The Mexicans are taking our jobs (damn them for engaging in mutually beneficial labor contracts with American farmers); the Chinese are cheating us (i.e. are able to produce goods at a lower cost because of the highly socialistic regulatory regime in this country). I, for one, would prefer to pay higher prices to benefit the AFLCIO...

[r3volution 3.0]

They are attacking him everywhere right now. They've been pushing this narrative that Rand is somehow working for the Russians, Rand couldn't find a better political ally than Trump's populist supporters who have been hypnotized into thinking and selling the idea that the Russian collusion narrative was an inside job manufactured by Hillary Clinton in order to win the 2016 election.

Alright, but none of that matters.

That's news cycle masturbation.

Rand isn't up for re-election, and will probably never run for another office again.

[nikcers]

And, if I click my heels three times and say "Trump," this will occur, or not?



The movement that the reality television character built is defined by hostility to foreigners, pure and simple. The Mexicans are taking our jobs (damn them for engaging in mutually beneficial labor contracts with American farmers); the Chinese are cheating us (i.e. are able to produce goods at a lower cost because of the highly socialistic regulatory regime in this country). I, for one, would prefer to pay higher prices to benefit the AFLCIO...

It would be better to never have a forest fire, but if the forest is on fire and you can't put it out then you should try to direct it to the dead brush and clear the way for new growth.

[Swordsmyth]

And, if I click my heels three times and say "Trump," this will occur, or not?

If we can get the right kind of support for the ideas we may be able to begin getting those things under Trump, if not then we can get them after he is gone.

The movement that the reality television character built is defined by hostility to foreigners, pure and simple. The Mexicans are taking our jobs (damn them for engaging in mutually beneficial labor contracts with American farmers); the Chinese are cheating us (i.e. are able to produce goods at a lower cost because of the highly socialistic regulatory regime in this country). I, for one, would prefer to pay higher prices to benefit the AFLCIO...

Again you demonstrate your shallow understanding of MAGA as well as your globalist tendencies, foreigners have been cheating us and stealing from us but Trump has also made it clear that our own elites have done as much or more damage to America and we need to shrink government here at home as well as solve our foreign problems.

[Swordsmyth]

Alright, but none of that matters.

Yes it does matter very much, Rand and Trump may keep us from going to war with Russia.

Rand isn't up for re-election, and will probably never run for another office again.

Your assertion gives me hope since you are wrong about almost everything, if you believe Rand won't run for office again that probably means he will.

[r3volution 3.0]

We shall see, everyone claimed we were going to invade N. Korea at any moment but that didn't happen.
Also this is about Russia not Iran, if Rand can help Trump keep us from going to war with Russia that is a good thing.

Rand has no influence with Trump: wish he did, but he doesn't.

He is not licking boots and he is strengthening Trump's hand about peace with Russia.

Nothing says peace like crushing economic sanctions.

...the Russian people will be real inclined toward peace after a couple months of eating cat food.

:-/

I doubt Trump will campaign on Rand's support, like it or not Rand doesn't have that kind of influence on many voters yet, Rand on the other hand can go to all the Trump supporters and say: "Hey, I was one of the good guys that stood by Trump when he was right while so many others jumped on the TDS bandwagon" and get them to listen to our ideas.

In other words, he can become a standard republican with no principles, and of no value for libertarians.

QED

[Swordsmyth]

Rand has no influence with Trump: wish he did, but he doesn't.

He does.

Nothing says peace like crushing economic sanctions.

...the Russian people will be real inclined toward peace after a couple months of eating cat food.

:-/

Congress has been passing those with VETO proof margins, Trump is walking a tightrope to avoid impeachment, Rand's support is helping him to resist worse anti-Russia actions.

In other words, he can become a standard republican with no principles, and of no value for libertarians.

QED

I said nothing about losing his principles, supporting Trump when he is right will get Trump supporters to listen to him without having to sell out.

[r3volution 3.0]

If we can get the right kind of support for the ideas we may be able to begin getting those things under Trump, if not then we can get them after he is gone.





Again you demonstrate your shallow understanding of MAGA as well as your globalist tendencies, foreigners have been cheating us and stealing from us but Trump has also made it clear that our own elites have done as much or more damage to America and we need to shrink government here at home as well as solve our foreign problems.

Of course my horse...

How about this; explain to me why reform is more likely under Trump than, say, George W. Bush.

To my knowledge, W. Bush never publicly advocated for single payer socialized medicine (as Trump did), for instance.

[Swordsmyth]

Of course my horse...

How about this; explain to me why reform is more likely under Trump than, say, George W. Bush.

To my knowledge, W. Bush never publicly advocated for single payer socialized medicine: for instance.

Because Trump has already done many more good things in line with our goals in under two years than W. did in eight.

[r3volution 3.0]

Because Trump has already done many more good things in line with our goals in under two years than W. did in eight.

Which are those?

..increase spending?

...not repeal the ACA?

....bomb numerous arabs?

[Swordsmyth]

Which are those?

..increase spending?

...not repeal the ACA?

....bomb numerous arabs?

He has pulled us out of several globalist "trade" deals and the "Paris" accord, cut regulations, increased border/immigration enforcement, picked many originalist judges, undermined the ACA when Congress wouldn't repeal it and begun to fight back in the trade wars.

Those are just what I can come up with off the top of my head.

[r3volution 3.0]

He has pulled us out of several globalist "trade" deals

In other words, he has increased taxes on American consumers?

and the "Paris" accord

Which had not gone into effect in any event (and any GOPer would have done the same)

cut regulations

In the same way that Obama went through the budget "line by line."

As I posted several months ago, citing the administrations' own figures, this was trivial.

The total regulatory burden is $2-3 TRILLION, whereas Trump's "deregulation" amounted to ~$600 million.

At that rate of deregulation, the market order will be restored in ~5,000 years.

increased border/immigration enforcement

Additional expropriations of private property for the purpose of a service which need not exist.

picked many originalist judges

I 100% guarantee that they will not challenge the federal government in any meaningful way.

It will be all about abortion, gay marriage, gay cakes, or similarly trivial issues.

The fact that virtually everything that the federal government does is unconstitutional will not even be discussed.

...we're all bolsheviks now.

undermined the ACA when Congress wouldn't repeal it

O, swordsmyth, I'm pretty sure you know better than that. Hence, I'm going to have to call you a dishonest shill.

Trump wanted to preserve it; that was the bill he was supporting.

The only person interested in actually repealing it, in the Senate anyway, was Rand.

Rand lost. The ACA is still in effect.

and begun to fight back in the trade wars.

i.e. tax Americans, on the basis of economic ignorance

Those are just what I can come up with off the top of my head.

That was plenty.

[Swordsmyth]

In other words, he has increased taxes on American consumers?

No, in other words he preserved American sovereignty from globalist world government schemes.

Which had not gone into effect in any event (and any GOPer would have done the same)

LOL, no establishment Swampublican would have withdrawan us.

In the same way that Obama went through the budget "line by line."

As I posted several months ago, citing the administrations' own figures, this was trivial.

The total regulatory burden is $2-3 TRILLION, whereas Trump's "deregulation" amounted to ~$600 million.

At that rate of deregulation, the market order will be restored in ~5,000 years.

He will increase his rate of deregulation as he gets more support in Congress and overcomes the resistance in the bureaucracy and the courts.

Additional expropriations of private property for the purpose of a service which need not exist.

That is pure garbage, illegal immigration is a great financial burden and a threat to liberty.

I 100% guarantee that they will not challenge the federal govcernment in any meaninful way.

It will be all about abortion, gay marriage, gay cakes, or similarly trivial issues.

The fact that virtually everything that the federal government does is unconstitutional will not even be discussed.

...we're all bolsheviks now.

Not so, many important cases go through the court system every year, the decisions will be much more favorable to liberty now.

O, swordsmyth, I'm pretty sure you know better than that. Hence, I'm going to have to call you a dishonest shill.

Trump wanted to preserve it; that was that bill he was supporting.

I did not say anything about what he wanted to replace it with, it is not clear that he actually meant what he said at the time or if he was trying to look "reasonable" when he knew nothing would pass anyway, even if we assume he meant every word he said he has been undermining the ACA rather than leave it as it is.

i.e. tax Americans, on the basis of economic ignorance

i.e. protect American workers from foreign government intervention and begin to rebuild our hollowed out economy.

That was plenty.

There is more but I don't feel like digging it up for you, you would not modify your TDS if I could prove he held your own exact beliefs.

[r3volution 3.0]

No, in other words he preserved American sovereignty from globalist world government schemes.

You will acknowledge that the tariffs are a tax on consumers or not?

LOL, no establishment Swampublican would have withdrawan us.

I'm sure Mitt Romney or the like would have made the same symbolic move, with Fox news telling people it matters.

You see, distractions are crucial. Otherwise, people might figure out that the parties are identical.

He will increase his rate of deregulation as he gets more support in Congress and overcomes the resistance in the bureaucracy and the courts.

I shall, tomorrow, begin to shoot lightening bolts out of my ass.

That is pure garbage, illegal immigration is a great financial burden and a threat to liberty.

It's terrible how illegal immigrants cause 99% of native born Americans to vote for socialism.

Clearly, John Bolton should be allowed to bomb some country for no reason.

Not so, many important cases go through the court system every year, the decisions will be much more favorable to liberty now.

Beginning tomorrow, I anticipate acquiring a unicorn which $#@!s money.

I did not say anything about what he wanted to replace it with, it is not clear that he actually meant what he said at the time or if he was trying to look "reasonable" when he knew nothing would pass anyway, even if we assume he meant every word he said he has been undermining the ACA rather than leave it as it is.

An attempt to preserve socialized medicine is obviously an attempt to abolish it.

....but only when the President favors socialized medicine, of course, otherwise this would be absurd.

[nikcers]

Alright, but none of that matters.

That's news cycle masturbation.

Rand isn't up for re-election, and will probably never run for another office again.

This isn't a 5 minute news cycle thing, its a narrative the neocons have been pushing for over a year now. They started pushing this narrative when Rand was pushing for less expansions of NATO. Rand can't ever run for political office with support like yours though. You give the media narrative credibility when all you do is criticize Rand Paul, he will never accomplish anything with people working against him because they don't like his approach or strategy and cast doubt on his goals and aspirations. If you ever supported liberty you should be singing praise for the beatings Rand has taken trying to protect yours.

[dannno]

Rand has no influence with Trump: wish he did, but he doesn't.

Demonstrably wrong.

Does he have total influence? Absolutely not.

But he may have more influence than any other single individual.

[Jamesiv1]

Do u not see a problem with a sitting senator being friendly with a country who the US and a good portion of the population believes that they kill opposition journalists/pol, support chemical weapon using president, kills spies overseas and tampers with US elections. Trump believes all those things and eve Rand himself believes half of it. Regardless of what you think about his actions, this looks bad to most Americans.

Most Americans know the US government does all of those things and more so most Americans are perfectly Ok with this.

[juleswin]

Most Americans know the US government does all of those things and more so most Americans are perfectly Ok with this.

Economic prosperity is one heck of a drug.

[AuH20]

Demonstrably wrong.

Does he have total influence? Absolutely not.

But he may have more influence than any other single individual.

Not more than Ivanka.

[dannno]

Not more than Ivanka.

[UWDude]

Rand's strategy of cozying up to Trumpkins should have been ended several months ago.

By who? Somebody already tried by kicking his ribs in. And before that by shooting at him while he practiced baseball.

It was never a good idea, so be it, but now it's just embarrassing. Communication with Russia in itself is a good thing, but this has no effect on diplomacy, only domestic politics, to the advantage of the nationalist slime presently occupying the "anti-establishment" space and so shutting libertarians out. If no one's noticed, Trump has relegated libertarianism to the sidelines. This doesn't help with that problem.

Word vomit....

his has no effect on diplomacy, only domestic politics

his has no effect on diplomacy, only domestic politics

his has no effect on diplomacy, only domestic politics

his has no effect on diplomacy, only domestic politics

The two aren't related? Or is it that your parents are?

You are in such a twisted state of being. Just a conglomerate of twisted, contradicting visions, to justify your sad existence. You'll go to any length to keep yourself the moral purist.

I know, you are the morally superior, with your morals, and nothing to show for it, at all. But at least in the end, you could claim the highest morality.

In all reality, that just makes you worthless, and I don't mean to "Americans", but to the most dangerous species in the world, humans.
And worthless is immoral, when there are so many doing their part.

[Aratus]

Who at the White House said these things, how do they know whose idea it was or what was in it?

It was the White House itself this time. No anonymous sources.

https://thinkprogress.org/rand-paul-...-dd83ddf651a4/

Duckies.... Rand doesn't have a reason to lie.

[Aratus]

IS THE COLD WAR OVER?

[PursuePeace]

OP, when you base your analysis on MSM sources, you are doomed to fail.

Either you trust Rand or you don't. If you are going to believe the MSM and not take Rand's word then you have a lot to learn.

[UWDude]

Alright, but none of that matters.

That's news cycle masturbation.

Rand isn't up for re-election, and will probably never run for another office again.

I think there is a good chance Rand gets endorsed in the primaries by President Trump in 2024.

[Aratus]

Swordsmyth, any Blue Wave riptide reversal of Trump's executive orders by actual legislation could trigger
a LBJ level tsunami of activity. You keep on assuming the younger demographic is loathe to contemplate
what you and I might label as socialism. A legislature with a proverbial "bit in the teach" can more than
chasten a chief executive. Three years ago, I never would have compared DJT to Charles Ist, ole Andy
Johnson and clever TrickyDick Nixon, but here I am staring at the controlled chaos of 2018 and a big
TUMs pile that MITCH McCONNELL has jistgobbled up with a SeanSpicer level of compulsiveness 2 it.

[timosman]

Swordsmyth, any Blue Wave riptide reversal of Trump's executive orders by actual legislation could trigger
a LBJ level tsunami of activity. You keep on assuming the younger demographic is loathe to contemplate
what you and I might label as socialism. A legislature with a proverbial "bit in the teach" can more than
chasten a chief executive. Three years ago, I never would have compared DJT to Charles Ist, ole Andy
Johnson and clever TrickyDick Nixon, but here I am staring at the controlled chaos of 2018 and a big
TUMs pile that MITCH McCONNELL has jistgobbled up with a SeanSpicer level of compulsiveness 2 it.

Are you OK?