Jo Jorgensen Wins Libertarian Party Presidential Nomination

[tod evans]

It can Locally..
You can have an effect locally,, but Federal Government is a lost cause..and should have never been allowed to have any of the powers it currently does.

It will not give them up regardless of which party is in power.

The situation is ripe for the individual states to wrest power from the fed.

[devil21]

It can Locally..
You can have an effect locally,, but Federal Government is a lost cause..and should have never been allowed to have any of the powers it currently does.

It will not give them up regardless of which party is in power.

Local voting can matter in some areas but I've seen here in Charlotte, a major Agenda 2030 target city, how the agenda pushers dump boatloads of money into agenda-compliant trained candidates (see: NC IOPL) or haul them off to jail if they don't play ball (see: Mayor Patrick Cannon), then those groomed candidates funnel the funds to the dominant GOTV organization in the area, who most voters dutifully vote for if they are endorsed by said GOTV org. The whole rigged structure was slowly put into place and is why the bigger agenda is now being kicked into high gear. Target areas have been almost fully captured (here it's heavily D dominated but the agenda isn't partisan, the Ds are just a vehicle) and most options are all from the same grooming and funding. The federal model of having no real choice has been put into place down to the local level here.

I'm not trying to discourage any one from continuing to spread the message and I've said that for a long time in my sig, but yes voting is irrelevant as the situation is now.

[pcosmar]

The situation is ripe for the individual states to wrest power from the fed.

Currently I am seeing a break-up as the best option.. with hope that liberty survives in some places...

expecting a bumpy ride regardless.

[emazur]

Jo's stances on the Fed, gold, and competing currencies:
https://news.bitcoin.com/2020-libert...d-19-response/

So first of all, it should have never been created. Second, it took a small problem and made it much larger. And third, the first thing I would do if I was President of the United States would be to audit the Federal Reserve.

I would seek advice from former Senator Ron Paul and ask him his recommendation on who should be in charge of that investigation committee. Eventually, I’d like to see the Fed abolished. Because through the Federal Reserve we get money created out of thin air, which is basically the equivalent of counterfeit money.
...

So a number of people say that they want to back USD with gold. That would be a step in the right direction, but that is not enough. We have competition in cars, competition with computers, and competitive grocery stores. Why not have competition with money? So the people have access to something that is more planned and a monetary system they can better predict. Right now what we have is money that’s created under the whims of Congress and the Federal Reserve Chair.

I would act in support of a free market in currencies.

...

First I would enact Ron Paul’s Free Competition in Currency Act. This would repeal legal tender laws and taxes on coins and monetary metals. And it would repeal the prohibition on coining money

[trey4sports]

"I would seek advice from former Senator Ron Paul and ask him his recommendation on who should be in charge of that investigation committee."

uhhh.... I can spot at least one thing wrong here....

[jct74]

Here's your chance to get to know Spike!


r/Libertarian will host an AMA with Libertarian Party VP nominee Spike Cohen on Saturday July 25th from 4-6pm ET

[kahless]

Jo's stances on the Fed, gold, and competing currencies:
https://news.bitcoin.com/2020-libert...d-19-response/

She has good points like this which would have made me decide to come out to vote for her. Her stance on immigration would open the flood gates. Screw that.

[emazur]

Here's your chance to get to know Spike!


r/Libertarian will host an AMA with Libertarian Party VP nominee Spike Cohen on Saturday July 25th from 4-6pm ET

I've been critical of Cohen as seen in this thread but I meant what I said about him being intelligent. And an excellent communicator and speaker as well (better than Ron Paul in these areas, on par or better than Tom Woods who is no slouch). If you doubt it here's a very recent interview (in which he praises Ron Paul and supports End the Fed):

[emazur]

She has good points like this which would have made me decide to come out to vote for her. Her stance on immigration would open the flood gates. Screw that.

Agreed on immigration. My suggestion would be to vote for her and say you'll fight against her on that issue with things to back it up (I've written a little bit on that and can repost here if anyone requests)

[Cutlerzzz]

She lost my token vote when she basically said white people need to shut up and listen to BLM.

[emazur]

She lost my token vote when she basically said white people need to shut up and listen to BLM.

I also didn't like that tweet and agree it was a bad move but I also agree with this guy who defended her (BTW he's running as Libertarian for Canadian Prime Minister):

[Swordsmyth]

Agreed on immigration. My suggestion would be to vote for her and say you'll fight against her on that issue with things to back it up (I've written a little bit on that and can repost here if anyone requests)

That's like slitting your throat and saying you will seek medical attention.

[r3volution 3.0]

Some folks will just never stop prioritizing their pet culture war issues over things that actually matter.

...The GOP and Dems are rapidly transforming the country into Venezuela?

...And the LP wants to reverse this trend and bring about prosperity, peace, and individual freedom?

$#@! that noise, I want muh bathrooms, cakes, absence of taco stands, whatever nonsense the flashing noise box is on about.

[emazur]

That's like slitting your throat and saying you will seek medical attention.

Open borders is losing issue - many libertarians don't support it, conservatives don't, blue collar liberals don't - it'll never go anywhere. So more like scrape from a plastic knife that won't even need a band-aid. Trump on the other hand would be like shooting up a room and then pointing the gun at your own head and hoping you pull the trigger fast enough before Trump grabs the gun out of your hand

[emazur]

Some folks will just never stop prioritizing their pet culture war issues over things that actually matter.

...The GOP and Dems are rapidly transforming the country into Venezuela?

...And the LP wants to reverse this trend and bring about prosperity, peace, and individual freedom?

$#@! that noise, I want muh bathrooms, cakes, absence of taco stands, whatever nonsense the flashing noise box is on about.

I support the LP at the very least as an educational campaign in much the same way I respect Ron Paul in '08 and '12. I don't rely on politics and do other things on my own initiative to improve my personal life

[Anti Federalist]

Some folks will just never stop prioritizing their pet culture war issues over things that actually matter.

...The GOP and Dems are rapidly transforming the country into Venezuela?

...And the LP wants to reverse this trend and bring about prosperity, peace, and individual freedom?

$#@! that noise, I want muh bathrooms, cakes, absence of taco stands, whatever nonsense the flashing noise box is on about.

Marxism - Libertarianism for children

You're selling the same old, unwholesome, stale bread that has been starving the liberty movement for decades now.

Liberty cannot be separated from culture.

The two are inextricably linked.

Economic prosperity is brought by a culture of freedom...history, tradition, family, faith, ethnicity.

Not the other way around.

The ChiComs make plenty of money.

[r3volution 3.0]

Marxism - Libertarianism for children

You're selling the same old, unwholesome, stale bread that has been starving the liberty movement for decades now.

I'm selling libertarianism.

Fortunately, the liberty movement has abandoned that stale fare and decided to be successful by joining their former enemies..

Liberty cannot be separated from culture.

The two are inextricably linked.

Economic prosperity is brought by a culture of freedom...history, tradition, family, faith, ethnicity.

Not the other way around.

The ChiComs make plenty of money.

Economic prosperity is brought about by laissez faire; the rest is trivial.

[Anti Federalist]

Economic prosperity is brought about by laissez faire; the rest is trivial.

And that is cultural.

[r3volution 3.0]

And that is cultural.

Step 1: Support people who are currently wrecking whatever remains of the market economy.

Step 2: ....?

Step 3: Restore the market economy.

Good plan

[emazur]

Marxism - Libertarianism for children

You're selling the same old, unwholesome, stale bread that has been starving the liberty movement for decades now.

Liberty cannot be separated from culture.

The two are inextricably linked.

Economic prosperity is brought by a culture of freedom...history, tradition, family, faith, ethnicity.
[/B].

I support a culture of freedom but take post WWII Japan as a counterexample. Economically devastated, twice nuked and other cities firebombed by war, did not have a history of freedom, not religious (Japanese practice Shinto & Buddhism like non-militant atheists celebrate Christmas) and had an emperor announce he was not actually divine, tradition sadly was gradually on its way out post Commodore Perry (1854) and about the only steadfast thing remaining is food. But one of the greatest economies ever arose in a very, very short amount of time. You can argue they have family and ethnicity but in Japan's case monocultural ethnicity became a self inflicted wound by engaging in us-versus-them actions internationally (not that I'm saying multiculturalism is the answer).

I know less about other Asian countries cultures like Taiwan, Singapore, Hong Kong, Korea but they also rapidly built their economies and probably didn't previously have what you'd consider a culture of freedom.

[r3volution 3.0]

I support a culture of freedom but take post WWII Japan as a counterexample. Economically devastated, twice nuked and other cities firebombed by war, did not have a history of freedom, not religious (Japanese practice Shinto & Buddhism like non-militant atheists celebrate Christmas) and had an emperor announce he was not actually divine, tradition sadly was gradually on its way out post Commodore Perry (1854) and about the only steadfast thing remaining is food. But one of the greatest economies ever arose in a very, very short amount of time. You can argue they have family and ethnicity but in Japan's case monocultural ethnicity became a self inflicted wound by engaging in us-versus-them actions internationally (not that I'm saying multiculturalism is the answer).

I know less about other Asian countries cultures like Taiwan, Singapore, Hong Kong, Korea but they also rapidly built their economies and probably didn't previously have what you'd consider a culture of freedom.

Well said

There's very little connection between culture (food, music, clothes, etiquette, etc) and political ideology.

The former varies widely among peoples; the latter is pretty uniform.

The average man from anywhere likes free stuff, dislikes foreigners, and has few well-defined views on any other important political topics.

This is why we see the same political landscape more or less everywhere: culture-right statists versus culture-left statists.

[Cutlerzzz]

I think a big conflict in determining whether society wants a conservative culture comes down to two different competing views on what the end game of Libertarianism is.

View one: Libertarianism either involves the government dissolving itself and being replaced by private courts and police that respect the NAP, or in the case of more Minarchist leaning Libertarians a central government that will force local and regional governments to respect freedom. Drugs, alcohol, sex, prostitution, divorce, and guns are legal everywhere. Free trade, free immigration, no zoning, no patents, everywhere. As Walter Block said you can have a lesbian couple, a Muslim, a white nationalist, a libertarian atheist Jew, a conservative family, and a drug addict living on the same block.

View two: Freedom involves people self segregating and forming their own communities on whatever scale the founders of that community want. In a more minarchist system, this would likely be guaranteed by some kind of decentralized constitution, monarch, or libertarian ideologue dictator. The communities can have their own government, whether it is lead by a King, a dead Constitution, a Democracy, a corporation, or a religious organization. They can segregate on whatever terms they want, to follow a religion, to protect a culture, to protect an ethnic identity, to make money, for some kind novelty, whatever. Part of freedom includes having the ability to choose a leader (or master) if you so desire.

People who believe in view two are inclined to believe that a moral and religious society is more likely to create a decentralized community that is less materialistic, more supportive of secession, capable of creating and/or sustaining their own culture, and less likely to sell out for money or handouts. Evidence for the accuracy of this would generally be the opposition local governments, provincial/state governments, and religious organizations gave Nationalists, Socialists, and Democrats as they created the modern managerial state that oversees everything.



Also, with regards to the other discussion. Japan might not be very religious now (I don’t know if that was true from 1950-90 or not), but religion does not clearly lead to material wealth (at least not short-intermediate term). Japan, China, and the East Asian Tigers have hard working people with strict families, strict schools, and a sense of duty. While economic freedom is the creator of economic growth, other factors like education, discipline, corruption, and raw materials will determine how far they can go within that system. Botswana has had as much economic freedom as the above countries and more raw material per capita, but is still poorer because it lacks the human capital. African and Asian Americans exist under about the same economic policies, but very different living standards. Different cultures create different work ethics and education achievements which can create a large gap in the resulting growth.

[Swordsmyth]

Open borders is losing issue - many libertarians don't support it, conservatives don't, blue collar liberals don't - it'll never go anywhere. So more like scrape from a plastic knife that won't even need a band-aid. Trump on the other hand would be like shooting up a room and then pointing the gun at your own head and hoping you pull the trigger fast enough before Trump grabs the gun out of your hand

LOL

We've had wide open borders and amnesties and only Trump has started to turn that around, he has also started to end the wars, bring the troops home and many other excellent things, he's not perfect but he is more good than bad and the best option we have.

[emazur]

LOL

We've had wide open borders and amnesties and only Trump has started to turn that around, he has also started to end the wars, bring the troops home and many other excellent things, he's not perfect but he is more good than bad and the best option we have.

I suppose Trump supporters must have been cheering for Obama then. From 2019:
https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2...ma-era-levels/

the U.S. is projected to see a level of illegal immigration this year that will surpass every year of illegal immigration under Obama.

Princeton Policy Advisors researcher Steven Kopits estimates that there will be about 775,000 illegal border crossings this year when the last month’s border data is analyzed. This would indicate that Trump’s overseeing of the crisis at the southern border would reach Bush era levels of mass illegal immigration when, in many years, more than illegal border crossings occurred in a single year.

In the past, Kopits has projected that there would be about 606,000 border crossings this year, the most illegal immigration since Fiscal Year 2008 when Bush was still in office.

Now, Kopits predicts illegal immigration to reach “a phenomenal pace of acceleration” at the southern border this year. The researcher also expects up to half a million border crossers will successfully enter the country through the border this year.

Should illegal immigration hit the level of 775,000 attempted border crossings this year, as Kopits projects, this would be nearly double what illegal immigration was in Obama’s last Fiscal Year.

Deportations lower under Trump administration than Obama: report

While the Obama administration deported 1.18 million people in his first three years, the number of deportations has been a little under 800,000 so far under Trump, according to the Post.

The Obama administration also deported 409,849 people in 2012 alone, while the Trump administration has yet to deport more than 260,000 people in a year, the Post reported.

[Swordsmyth]

I suppose Trump supporters must have been cheering for Obama then. From 2019:
https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2...ma-era-levels/


Deportations lower under Trump administration than Obama: report

Trump is decreasing illegal and legal immigration and he has been hit with a massive push to try to overwhelm his efforts, deportations are down because state and local governments have drastically cut cooperation with ICE, federally initiated deportations are way up.

O'Bummer issued DACA and other massive inducements to illegals and cut border enforcement to the bone.

[NorthCarolinaLiberty]

You're not picking your wife. Duh.

Libertarians lose because they have a losing attitude. They don't know how to market and be assertive. Ask 10 people at work tomorrow if they've heard of this woman. You'll get 0/10.

Set a goal and do it. Work up to something.

Start with things the average joe relates to. These are hardly the best issues to campaign on, but at least asset forfeiture and "war" on drugs was making some headway. Stop with the mental masturbation like open borders.

[PAF]

You're not picking your wife. Duh.

Libertarians lose because they have a losing attitude. They don't know how to market and be assertive. Ask 10 people at work tomorrow if they've heard of this woman. You'll get 0/10.

Set a goal and do it. Work up to something.

Start with things the average joe relates to. These are hardly the best issues to campaign on, but at least asset forfeiture and "war" on drugs was making some headway. Stop with the mental masturbation like open borders.

I will not be voting national election (I will be pulling weeds out of the side of my driveway that day), but so far I have had 2 relatives and a few others who I know if I knew anything about Jo. They still feel the need to vote out of duty, one of my relatives is looking into Agorism and most likely will not vote since I have been promoting it.

[NorthCarolinaLiberty]

I will not be voting national election..one of my relatives most likely will not vote since I have been promoting it.

Well, suit yourself. Someone else will sure be voting and glad that you're not.

[NorthCarolinaLiberty]

I never even heard of these people, but found this Youtube video interview. Scroll down a couple of swipes and click on any of the hyperlinks to learn their view on that issue.


8:55 - Consent Culture
12:55 - Free College
16:00 - Government "reward" conditioning
23:00 - Criminalization of Poor Entrepeneurship
25:35 - Government Power with Dependence and Incentives
26:55 - Clash for Clunkers
27:55 - Spike on Self-Ownership, Central Planning
29:20 - Jo on Central Planning
32:08 - COVID-19 Shutdown
33:48 - Dept of Education
34:18 - Immigration
35:55 - Healthcare
40:29 - Fear mongering
41:38 - Freedom of choice and the Free Market
46:10 - Spike on Fear Mongering
48:03 - Government and food and homelessness
49:26 - Government vs Charity
58:07 - A final word from Spike
59:09 - A final word from Jo


If you want to use the hyperlinks, then click this link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QdbRj6VZ6Zw

[NorthCarolinaLiberty]

I watched the opening 2 minutes statements just now. Any of these people should easily be able to win a congressional seat. I really think however, they need some big PR help. Here's what I saw in the opening statements:

Jacob Hornberger. He needs to drop the social security talk as an opening statement. Pick something else. Anything else. You don't start off your intro by alienating millions of retirees.

Jo. She did the most polished job of introducing herself. A lot of her focus however, is not as appealing to men as to women.

Monds. Guy seems pretty down to earth, but seemed too theoretical as I jumped ahead and listened to him. Libertarians talk too much ivory tower baloney, and the opposite is needed.

Grey. He starts off by practically being apologetic. Cardinal mistake in an intro. He also seemed like a bootlicker with his view that literature on jury nullification can't be handed out on the courthouse. I don't get it.

Vermin. He's probably captured all the people he can get with his comedy schtick. He needs to drop that to grow.



Okay, easy for me to be critical as an arm chair observers who would be totally tongue-tied if I had to do that.