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Thread: Is It Time For Libertarian Gun Owners To Rethink Who They are Voting For ?

  1. #61
    Quote Originally Posted by The Gold Standard View Post
    Remain free? When is the last time it was free? Before the Whiskey Rebellion?
    About then- maybe just before the Constitution was ratified.
    There is no spoon.



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  3. #62
    Trump supporters/Republicans: if you wanted to build a coalition with libertarians then you should of nominated Rand Paul. Enjoy your loss and I hope your party dissolves and Gary Johnson eats your lunch.

  4. #63
    Hey if you love liberty and are not voting Clinton then you are my friend.....that's all. Even if we differ on how we get there.
    "Liberty lies in the hearts of men and women; when it dies there, no constitution, no law, no court can save it; no constitution, no law, no court can even do much to help it."
    James Madison

    "It does not take a majority to prevail ... but rather an irate, tireless minority, keen on setting brushfires of freedom in the minds of men." - Samuel Adams



    Μολὼν λάβε
    Dum Spiro, Pugno
    Tu ne cede malis sed contra audentior ito

  5. #64
    Quote Originally Posted by puppetmaster View Post
    Hey if you love liberty and are not voting Clinton then you are my friend.....that's all. Even if we differ on how we get there.
    Can't argue with that. Be assured I won't vote Hillary. Not even at gun point.



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  7. #65
    Quote Originally Posted by The Gold Standard View Post
    Remain free? When is the last time it was free? Before the Whiskey Rebellion?
    It was probably free until the introduction of Social Security.

  8. #66
    Quote Originally Posted by puppetmaster View Post
    Hey if you love liberty and are not voting Clinton then you are my friend.....that's all. Even if we differ on how we get there.
    AMEN

    And +rep.
    There is no spoon.

  9. #67
    Quote Originally Posted by nikcers View Post
    Trump supporters/Republicans: if you wanted to build a coalition with libertarians then you should of nominated Rand Paul. Enjoy your loss and I hope your party dissolves and Gary Johnson eats your lunch.
    Perpetual Educational Campaign Libertarians: Building coalitions is a two way street. If Rand wanted to build a coalition with Republican voting blocs then he should have made the effort. He did not, and that's why he was not nominated, not because those factions were not reachable. Trump did reach out to them, and that's why he's winning. Johnson has built a niche 5-10% election coalition from LP voters, some millenials and disaffected Sanders supporters, but that does not equal an election winning political bloc.
    -----Peace & Freedom, John Clifton-----
    Blog: https://electclifton.wordpress.com/2...back-backlash/

  10. #68
    Quote Originally Posted by Peace&Freedom View Post
    Perpetual Educational Campaign Libertarians: Building coalitions is a two way street. If Rand wanted to build a coalition with Republican voting blocs then he should have made the effort. He did not, and that's why he was not nominated, not because those factions were not reachable. Trump did reach out to them, and that's why he's winning. Johnson has built a niche 5-10% election coalition from LP voters, some millenials and disaffected Sanders supporters, but that does not equal an election winning political bloc.
    Trump reached out to the conspiracy and racist wing (primed any Alex Jones, Drudge, and Breitbart), and, with the assistance of msm playing the foil, he became the "outsider" candidate. There was nothing Rand could have done. He was already suffering from media black out when this whole catastrophe of an election started. They would name every other one of the candidates in the Republican clown car this year, but conveniently leave him off. Until they made hay about his problems in Kentucky. Then all you could hear was them talking crap about him.

    And before you even start, Rand was never my guy. I just was amazed at how much they pushed Trump as an outsider and then blantantly played the he who shall not be named game again. People were mostly too busy watching the pretty, shiny object of Trump to give a care wrt Rand.
    We will be known forever by the tracks we leave. - Dakota


    Go Forward With Courage

    When you are in doubt, be still, and wait;
    when doubt no longer exists for you, then go forward with courage.
    So long as mists envelop you, be still;
    be still until the sunlight pours through and dispels the mists
    -- as it surely will.
    Then act with courage.

    Ponca Chief White Eagle

  11. #69
    So Hillary will just outright take my guns

    but Trump will just stop and frisk me first and then take it.

    Clear choice.
    The wisdom of Swordy:

    On bringing the troops home
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    They are coming home, all the naysayers said they would never leave Syria and then they said they were going to stay in Iraq forever.

    It won't take very long to get them home but it won't be overnight either but Iraq says they can't stay and they are coming home just like Trump said.

    On fighting corruption:
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Trump had to donate the "right way" and hang out with the "right people" in order to do business in NYC and Hollyweird and in order to investigate and expose them.
    Fascism Defined

  12. #70
    Quote Originally Posted by Todd View Post
    So Hillary will just outright take my guns

    but Trump will just stop and frisk me first and then take it.

    Clear choice.
    Yep.
    There is no spoon.

  13. #71
    Quote Originally Posted by Peace&Freedom View Post
    Perpetual Educational Campaign Libertarians: Building coalitions is a two way street. If Rand wanted to build a coalition with Republican voting blocs then he should have made the effort. He did not, and that's why he was not nominated, not because those factions were not reachable. Trump did reach out to them, and that's why he's winning. Johnson has built a niche 5-10% election coalition from LP voters, some millenials and disaffected Sanders supporters, but that does not equal an election winning political bloc.
    Categorically untrue. Rand reached out to Republicans more than any other libertarian leaning candidate in history. It was precisely his reaching out to ordinary Republicans that made him so hated around this fickle madhouse.

  14. #72
    Quote Originally Posted by Todd View Post
    So Hillary will just outright take my guns

    but Trump will just stop and frisk me first and then take it.

    Clear choice.
    Hillary, at best, will take almost everybody's guns.

    Trump, at worst, will just stop and frisk, or take guns from some Muslims and Latinos.

    Clear choice.
    -----Peace & Freedom, John Clifton-----
    Blog: https://electclifton.wordpress.com/2...back-backlash/



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  16. #73
    Quote Originally Posted by Peace&Freedom View Post
    Hillary, at best, will take almost everybody's guns.

    Trump, at worst, will just stop and frisk, or take guns from some Muslims and Latinos.

    Clear choice.
    So you are okay with being a part of America taking guns from some Muslims, Blacks, and Latinos?

  17. #74
    Quote Originally Posted by Peace&Freedom View Post
    Hillary, at best, will take almost everybody's guns.

    Trump, at worst, will just stop and frisk, or take guns from some Muslims and Latinos.

    Clear choice.
    When did Trump say only Mexicans and Latinos are subject to his stop and frisk law?? Is that how New York did it?

  18. #75
    Quote Originally Posted by GunnyFreedom View Post
    So you are okay with being a part of America taking guns from some Muslims, Blacks, and Latinos?

    Not to mention the fact that the power to take them away from "some Muslims and Latinos," IS the power to take them away from EVERYONE. All that may be lacking is the desire to do so. If a Trump administration lacks said desire (and nobody has actually demonstrated to any reasonable level of certainty that this s the case), then some subsequent administration most likely won't.

    Why do people keep falling for the same bull$#@! arguments year after year? People around here especially should know better.
    Chris

    "Government ... does not exist of necessity, but rather by virtue of a tragic, almost comical combination of klutzy, opportunistic terrorism against sitting ducks whom it pretends to shelter, plus our childish phobia of responsibility, praying to be exempted from the hard reality of life on life's terms." Wolf DeVoon

    "...Make America Great Again. I'm interested in making American FREE again. Then the greatness will come automatically."Ron Paul

  19. #76
    Quote Originally Posted by nikcers View Post
    When did Trump say only Mexicans and Latinos are subject to his stop and frisk law?? Is that how New York did it?
    He didn't and NO.
    There is no spoon.

  20. #77
    Quote Originally Posted by CCTelander View Post
    Not to mention the fact that the power to take them away from "some Muslims and Latinos," IS the power to take them away from EVERYONE.
    Sure it is, and it's easy to demonstrate, but I think he's regressed a bit and not ready to hear that yet. He's lost his conviction, so following after the model of my faith, conviction has to be restored before education can resume, yes? I think by stacking all that burden onto the choice, it just makes it harder for him to make the painful choice. I think maybe if he decides first that 'yes, participating in any unlawful gun confiscation is evil' then it will be easier to demonstrate how that will become universal after the decision is made that it is indeed evil.

    All that may be lacking is the desire to do so. If a Trump administration lacks said desire (and nobody has actually demonstrated to any reasonable level of certainty that this s the case), then some subsequent administration most likely won't.
    This is a lesson that I have been trying to pound into Republicans since the day I got involved, and I have actually had some (limited) success. "Never give your man a power that you do not want your enemy to have, because your man will not be in power forever." I was able to point of a lot of Obama abuses of GWB's holes in the firewall to make that point. I think one possibly beneficial thing about a Trump Presidency would be after he gets put out in 2020 and some Dem rapes the government Trump left behind, come 2024 there may be riots in the streets in favor of REAL reform. The question is can we survive 8 years of that madness? I have to be honest with myself and say that we have already survived a lot more than I had expected, so I can't put the odds better than 30% that we won't. So if I'm at 70% that America survives the coming hell, if Trump wins, I'll expect a major Dem kneejerk in 2020, and I'll plan for exploding outrage in 2024. How do we channel that exploding outrage into a Constitutionalist reformer and not allow another jackass like Trump to steal the thunder we built?

    Why do people keep falling for the same bull$#@! arguments year after year? People around here especially should know better.
    It's because the liberty movement has heretofore largely been more reactive than proactive I think. I was pressing local races in 2004 with an eye to build from the bottom up until our platform was 'the normal' and then hit higher offices. It's a point I have been trying to make consistently the entire time I have been involved with the liberty movement. It's the reason I ran for State House int he first place and 'accidentally' won.

    Had we actually all worked offices from the ground up starting in 2007, then 2016 would have been almost a given for us. We are not the squirrel planning ahead and saving away for the winter, we are the over-excited dog that wants to chase the squirrel. We have another opportunity in 2024 that will be an enormous opportunity for us. If Hillary wins, we will have the same opportunity but a bit lesser and a lot more out of balance in 2020. If we want to actually make something happen, we need to anticipate what will happen 4 or 8 years ahead, and put ourselves into a position to capture the disenfranchised.

  21. #78
    Quote Originally Posted by moostraks View Post
    Trump reached out to the conspiracy and racist wing (primed any Alex Jones, Drudge, and Breitbart), and, with the assistance of msm playing the foil, he became the "outsider" candidate. There was nothing Rand could have done. He was already suffering from media black out when this whole catastrophe of an election started. They would name every other one of the candidates in the Republican clown car this year, but conveniently leave him off. Until they made hay about his problems in Kentucky. Then all you could hear was them talking crap about him.

    And before you even start, Rand was never my guy. I just was amazed at how much they pushed Trump as an outsider and then blantantly played the he who shall not be named game again. People were mostly too busy watching the pretty, shiny object of Trump to give a care wrt Rand.
    So you bought the MSM's 'deplorable' narrative that most of the tens of millions of populist opponents of government and the PC regime are kooks or bigots. Agreeing to such mass demonization is not the way to reach any sizeable bloc of voters, and it keeps people mentally shackled to the same frameworks that have made it impossible to overcome the institutional obstacles to liberty. Rand's approach was perceived as too accommodating to the statist status quo for him to be accepted as an effective alternative.

    For this same reason. nor did Rand have an effective solution to the blackout tactics, which as you pointed out were being practiced on him BEFORE, and APART from Trump. If Trump had never entered the race, Jeb would have dominated the primary coverage as per the establishment's actual plan, and the elite would have still blocked Rand out. So the crucial issue remains, the Pauls did not have an effective counter to the kingmakers' tactics, or a viable outreach plan to get votes outside the liberty wing of the GOP, whereas Trump did.

    Quote Originally Posted by GunnyFreedom View Post
    Categorically untrue. Rand reached out to Republicans more than any other libertarian leaning candidate in history. It was precisely his reaching out to ordinary Republicans that made him so hated around this fickle madhouse.
    Reaching out, and effectively reaching out are different things. Reaching out in the entirely PC, let's-play-nice way with the MSM that Rand tried, turned out to be ineffective. Boldly confronting or denigrating the media, mega donors, and party leadership, while appealing to a populist or nationalist dynamic among voters, turned out to be the more successful route.
    -----Peace & Freedom, John Clifton-----
    Blog: https://electclifton.wordpress.com/2...back-backlash/

  22. #79
    Quote Originally Posted by nikcers View Post
    When did Trump say only Mexicans and Latinos are subject to his stop and frisk law?? Is that how New York did it?
    Trump has spoken of taking similar measures in relation to using profiling, meaning most people would not be subject to this engagement. Since his campaign has focused on vetting Muslims for possible terrorist ties, or Mexicans over possible illegal status, I used those two examples.
    -----Peace & Freedom, John Clifton-----
    Blog: https://electclifton.wordpress.com/2...back-backlash/

  23. #80
    Quote Originally Posted by GunnyFreedom View Post
    So you are okay with being a part of America taking guns from some Muslims, Blacks, and Latinos?
    do you beleive everyone, without exception should possess a gun? Do you beleive we should take refugees and allow all immigration including illegal and do you beleive they should possess guns?
    "Liberty lies in the hearts of men and women; when it dies there, no constitution, no law, no court can save it; no constitution, no law, no court can even do much to help it."
    James Madison

    "It does not take a majority to prevail ... but rather an irate, tireless minority, keen on setting brushfires of freedom in the minds of men." - Samuel Adams



    Μολὼν λάβε
    Dum Spiro, Pugno
    Tu ne cede malis sed contra audentior ito



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  25. #81
    Quote Originally Posted by puppetmaster View Post
    do you beleive everyone, without exception should possess a gun? Do you beleive we should take refugees and allow all immigration including illegal and do you beleive they should possess guns?
    Let's first deal with the complex question fallacy. I have never been an open borders person neither do I support bringing in all of these refugees, nor do I support the wars we have fought and instigated which created these refugees, or 'refugees' in the first place.

    I might support banning gun possession from someone who has actually used a gun in their own hand to commit a felony, and some measure of reform involved in a potential restoration of gun rights, but all of this anyway could only exist at State level and not federal.

    If there is to be such a thing as 'gun control' ala actual gunslinging felons, then Washington DC is still prohibited by the Constitution from doing it.

  26. #82
    Quote Originally Posted by Peace&Freedom View Post
    Trump has spoken of taking similar measures in relation to using profiling, meaning most people would not be subject to this engagement. Since his campaign has focused on vetting Muslims for possible terrorist ties, or Mexicans over possible illegal status, I used those two examples.
    Speculation? You are basing this off Trumps member berries, not his policies.

  27. #83
    Quote Originally Posted by Peace&Freedom View Post
    Perpetual Educational Campaign Libertarians: Building coalitions is a two way street. If Rand wanted to build a coalition with Republican voting blocs then he should have made the effort. He did not, and that's why he was not nominated, not because those factions were not reachable. Trump did reach out to them, and that's why he's winning. Johnson has built a niche 5-10% election coalition from LP voters, some millenials and disaffected Sanders supporters, but that does not equal an election winning political bloc.
    Dont $#@! with me we both know Trump got the nomination because the MSM treated his campaign like a $#@!ing infomercial.

  28. #84
    Quote Originally Posted by GunnyFreedom View Post
    Let's first deal with the complex question fallacy. I have never been an open borders person neither do I support bringing in all of these refugees, nor do I support the wars we have fought and instigated which created these refugees, or 'refugees' in the first place.

    I might support banning gun possession from someone who has actually used a gun in their own hand to commit a felony, and some measure of reform involved in a potential restoration of gun rights, but all of this anyway could only exist at State level and not federal.

    If there is to be such a thing as 'gun control' ala actual gunslinging felons, then Washington DC is still prohibited by the Constitution from doing it.
    Yeah those are the same thought I have
    "Liberty lies in the hearts of men and women; when it dies there, no constitution, no law, no court can save it; no constitution, no law, no court can even do much to help it."
    James Madison

    "It does not take a majority to prevail ... but rather an irate, tireless minority, keen on setting brushfires of freedom in the minds of men." - Samuel Adams



    Μολὼν λάβε
    Dum Spiro, Pugno
    Tu ne cede malis sed contra audentior ito

  29. #85
    Quote Originally Posted by nikcers View Post
    Dont $#@! with me we both know Trump got the nomination because the MSM treated his campaign like a $#@!ing infomercial.
    we see different "infomercials" in fact I see nothing but mocking and disgust from CNN.....etc. there is nothing I saw in the media that would make me vote for Trump.
    "Liberty lies in the hearts of men and women; when it dies there, no constitution, no law, no court can save it; no constitution, no law, no court can even do much to help it."
    James Madison

    "It does not take a majority to prevail ... but rather an irate, tireless minority, keen on setting brushfires of freedom in the minds of men." - Samuel Adams



    Μολὼν λάβε
    Dum Spiro, Pugno
    Tu ne cede malis sed contra audentior ito

  30. #86
    Quote Originally Posted by puppetmaster View Post
    we see different "infomercials" in fact I see nothing but mocking and disgust from CNN.....etc. there is nothing I saw in the media that would make me vote for Trump.
    Understand the mass of voters. It doesn't matter if they hate you and their coverage is all negative or if they love you and their coverage is all positive, the only thing that really matters in the current era, is the volume of the mentions of your name, and they people doing this actually know that.

  31. #87
    Quote Originally Posted by GunnyFreedom View Post
    Understand the mass of voters. It doesn't matter if they hate you and their coverage is all negative or if they love you and their coverage is all positive, the only thing that really matters in the current era, is the volume of the mentions of your name, and they people doing this actually know that.
    just from my own experience is the people I talk with will NOT vote for him because of what they hear. I have yet to see someone say they will.vote for Trump because he is being mentioned in the news all the time. Does everyone like ISIS or hillary because they are in the news non stop? I just don't get it.
    "Liberty lies in the hearts of men and women; when it dies there, no constitution, no law, no court can save it; no constitution, no law, no court can even do much to help it."
    James Madison

    "It does not take a majority to prevail ... but rather an irate, tireless minority, keen on setting brushfires of freedom in the minds of men." - Samuel Adams



    Μολὼν λάβε
    Dum Spiro, Pugno
    Tu ne cede malis sed contra audentior ito

  32. #88
    It's time to reexamine "fear based hiring practices".
    Fear of man will prove to be a snare, but whoever trusts in the LORD is kept safe. Proverbs 29:25
    "I think the propaganda machine is the biggest problem that we face today in trying to get the truth out to people."
    Ron Paul

    Please watch, subscribe, like, & share, Ron Paul Liberty Report
    BITCHUTE IS A LIBERTY MINDED ALTERNATIVE TO GOOGLE SUBSIDIARY YOUTUBE



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  34. #89
    Quote Originally Posted by GunnyFreedom View Post
    So you are okay with being a part of America taking guns from some Muslims, Blacks, and Latinos?
    He's Peace and Freedom....don't ya know...
    The wisdom of Swordy:

    On bringing the troops home
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    They are coming home, all the naysayers said they would never leave Syria and then they said they were going to stay in Iraq forever.

    It won't take very long to get them home but it won't be overnight either but Iraq says they can't stay and they are coming home just like Trump said.

    On fighting corruption:
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Trump had to donate the "right way" and hang out with the "right people" in order to do business in NYC and Hollyweird and in order to investigate and expose them.
    Fascism Defined

  35. #90
    Quote Originally Posted by puppetmaster View Post
    Does everyone like ISIS? I just don't get it.
    ISIS is a creation of the US, Saudi Arabia and Israel.

    No one is going to do anything but fund it. and use it.

    and if Trump somehow gets the job,, He will be informed of what he will do.

    whatever he says means dodo.
    Liberty is lost through complacency and a subservient mindset. When we accept or even welcome automobile checkpoints, random searches, mandatory identification cards, and paramilitary police in our streets, we have lost a vital part of our American heritage. America was born of protest, revolution, and mistrust of government. Subservient societies neither maintain nor deserve freedom for long.
    Ron Paul 2004

    Registered Ron Paul supporter # 2202
    It's all about Freedom

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