Time For Libertarians To Leave The GOP?

[Ender]

The fact that so many here are willing to turn on Justin over this while constantly giving Trump a pass speaks volumes about where this forum is these days. People are talking about degrees, don't throw out the good because of a tolerable bad. And then turn on Justin, really?

If anyone thinks that on a ratings scale Trump is anywhere near Amash they're delusional.

Exactly.

[Origanalist]

Look up bill sponsored/co sponsored by Justin and then see how many of them passed. Meanwhile Trump has been able to implement huge tax cuts, reduced regulations, tried to cut immigration and appointed young conservative judges that would protect liberty for decades to comes. One definitely has a winning strategy and the other is trying to obstruct.

Hope that helps

He has reduced regulations, the rest is debatable or simply remains to be seen. Sorry, I just don't have the same glowing scorecard that you do.

[Brian4Liberty]

I've taken the time to read what the FLDS want and yes it is a theocratic world government, governed by a group called the Council of Fifty, advising the new Jesus. Smith and Young both wanted this. I wrote in the other thread that in reality, it's just a vision of a new version of the Roman Senate advising the Roman Emperor. All roads still lead to Rome. Perhaps I've spent a lot more time than most reading up on the history and esoteric/occult side of organized religion, therefore my perspective is much different than anyone who simply reads a holy book and leaves it at that.

I stayed away from the Religion Sub-forum, but we certainly had to deal with plenty of complaints in there.

Back to the OP, the Libertarian Party is often seen as a convenient vehicle for the theocrats, theonomists or whatever they want to call themselves. Elimination of the current government, to be replaced by a theocracy is the ultimate goal, but libertarianism or anarchism will aid in that goal until it’s time to spring the replacement.

And this is in no way aimed at all religious people or Christians. But there are specific splinter groups, large and very small, that fit the description. Catholic Charities for one.

[Ender]

Look up bill sponsored/co sponsored by Justin and then see how many of them passed. Meanwhile Trump has been able to implement huge tax cuts, reduced regulations, tried to cut immigration and appointed young conservative judges that would protect liberty for decades to comes. One definitely has a winning strategy and the other is trying to obstruct.

Hope that helps

Read it and weep:

Three Ways Trump's Tax "Cuts" Will Raise Taxes
https://mises.org/wire/three-ways-tr...ll-raise-taxes

[Origanalist]

Read it and weep:

Three Ways Trump's Tax "Cuts" Will Raise Taxes
https://mises.org/wire/three-ways-tr...ll-raise-taxes

They left out tariffs.

[juleswin]

Read it and weep:

Three Ways Trump's Tax "Cuts" Will Raise Taxes
https://mises.org/wire/three-ways-tr...ll-raise-taxes

Que the long post about libertarian purists here. The govt gives you a big tax cut and you people whine that it is not big enough. The purists live to nitpick anything positive the govt does while continuing the infighting between their ranks. Read my lips "TAXES WERE CUT" and that is all you need to know

[Origanalist]

Que the long post about libertarian purists here. The govt gives you a big tax cut and you people whine that it is not big enough. The purists live to nitpick anything positive the govt does while continuing the infighting between their ranks. Read my lips "TAXES WERE CUT" and that is all you need to know

This is possibly the dumbest post I've seen here all year, congratulations.

[euphemia]

This is possibly the dumbest post I've seen here all year, congratulations.

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Origanalist again.

[juleswin]

This is possibly the dumbest post I've seen here all year, congratulations.

Pathological libertarian resorting to insults and name calling when you present true reality to them, I have to tell you that I did not see that coming. Nothing I said in that post is dumb but the purist libertarians will reject true reality. I don't like Trump but even I can see the many positives that he is solely responsible for. You can't say that about your boy Amash.

I will take Trump while we wait for libertarian utopia that will never come. The state is here to stay, big govt and welfare socialism can be harnessed to benefit liberty. I am done complaining about Trump.

[Cleaner44]

Look up bill sponsored/co sponsored by Justin and then see how many of them passed. Meanwhile Trump has been able to implement huge tax cuts, reduced regulations, tried to cut immigration and appointed young conservative judges that would protect liberty for decades to comes. One definitely has a winning strategy and the other is trying to obstruct.

Hope that helps

I agree. There is plenty for me to disagree with Trump on, but the tax cuts, reduced regulation and appointed judges all help advanced liberty. For me Trumps positives so far out-weigh his negatives. Trump actually gets things done, libertarians for the most part don't get things done. We need tangible results, not just great ideas on paper. Destroying "Democracy" as liberals like to put it is exactly what is needed when you realize that Democracy is the scam of their Marxism. The U.S. was founded as a Republic and it needs to be protected from communists that want to live in a socialist democracy.

[jmdrake]

Ever had immediate life or death threat tactical defense training? You have to immobilize the very worst threat first before dealing with the next worst threat and then the least worst threat. Unfortunately this is the reality of it. Anything other is a delusion.

That really doesn't address a single thing I said. But okay. The reality is that there is a very real risk to the "teocon" strategy. Some of us saw this back when Rand first ran and even before. At some point we risk becoming the very neocons we were fighting to defeat in the first place. Ignoring that risk is also a delusion.

[jmdrake]

See, that kind of talk is exactly what I'm talking about. Libertarians have been out-for-blood with the tea party because they only agree on just 80% of what the libertarian party was going for, but you know, I would say actually making it into office is much more than "moderate success." A Senate seat!, no less. Libertarians didn't put Rand in office, sorry to tell ya. They were too busy pouting in 2010 because the tea party took Ron's idea and ran with it (I will be honest, it's a damn shame that Ron Paul will never get credit for all the things he did), meanwhile Rand was using the wave to get into office. He had a strategy.

The libertarian party needs alphas. They need people who know how to harness energy and steer it. Granted, that's a problem because being a pack leader goes against the nature of libertarians, but if they want to win and actually be a player in politics, they're going to have to get over that. I don't see any other way.

The reason I said "moderate success" is that even though he won the senate seat (Yay Rand!) he got crushed when he ran for president. So the glass was only half full. You have just as much of an attitude as you accuse purists of having. Great success in politics is Donald Trump coming out of nowhere and winning the presidency. Even though I am no Trump fan, not even in the slightest, I know that he's been far more successful in politics than Rand Paul. So no. My assessment has nothing to do with Rand being 80% (if that's even the correct percentage) or whatever. Rand was far more successful than Ron for example.

[Origanalist]

I agree. There is plenty for me to disagree with Trump on, but the tax cuts, reduced regulation and appointed judges all help advanced liberty. For me Trumps positives so far out-weigh his negatives. Trump actually gets things done, libertarians for the most part don't get things done. We need tangible results, not just great ideas on paper. Destroying "Democracy" as liberals like to put it is exactly what is needed when you realize that Democracy is the scam of their Marxism. The U.S. was founded as a Republic and it needs to be protected from communists that want to live in a socialist democracy.

I will take Trump while we wait for libertarian utopia that will never come. The state is here to stay, big govt and welfare socialism can be harnessed to benefit liberty. I am done complaining about Trump.

Do you also agree with this?

[Origanalist]

Pathological libertarian resorting to insults and name calling when you present true reality to them, I have to tell you that I did not see that coming. Nothing I said in that post is dumb but the purist libertarians will reject true reality. I don't like Trump but even I can see the many positives that he is solely responsible for. You can't say that about your boy Amash.

I will take Trump while we wait for libertarian utopia that will never come. The state is here to stay, big govt and welfare socialism can be harnessed to benefit liberty. I am done complaining about Trump.

Congratulations again, you just beat it.

[Ender]

The reason I said "moderate success" is that even though he won the senate seat (Yay Rand!) he got crushed when he ran for president. So the glass was only half full. You have just as much of an attitude as you accuse purists of having. Great success in politics is Donald Trump coming out of nowhere and winning the presidency. Even though I am no Trump fan, not even in the slightest, I know that he's been far more successful in politics than Rand Paul. So no. My assessment has nothing to do with Rand being 80% (if that's even the correct percentage) or whatever. Rand was far more successful than Ron for example.

The more the media ignores someone, the more you can bet they are being shoved outta sight on purpose. In opposition, the more the media talks about a politician/candidate/etc- good or bad- the more you can bet that the media is with TPTB in holding them up.

It was very obvious with Trump & still is- he & Hitlery were virtually the same candidate. TPTB didn't care which one won.

[Ender]

Que the long post about libertarian purists here. The govt gives you a big tax cut and you people whine that it is not big enough. The purists live to nitpick anything positive the govt does while continuing the infighting between their ranks. Read my lips "TAXES WERE CUT" and that is all you need to know

Yeah- Mises knows nothing about money.

[Swordsmyth]

I guarantee you that Mormons are diverse, and that in general, are patriotic, which some would call nationalist.

The important point is that devil keeps claiming that Mormons want to impose a theocratic world government by themselves, that is totally different from our doctrines about the Kingdom of GOD that Christ will bring at his coming.

[Swordsmyth]

I've taken the time to read what the FLDS want and yes it is a theocratic world government, governed by a group called the Council of Fifty, advising the new Jesus. Smith and Young both wanted this. I wrote in the other thread that in reality, it's just a vision of a new version of the Roman Senate advising the Roman Emperor. All roads still lead to Rome. Perhaps I've spent a lot more time than most reading up on the history and esoteric/occult side of organized religion, therefore my perspective is much different than anyone who simply reads a holy book and leaves it at that.

And you keep claiming that Mormons want to impose world government instead of accept GOD's kingdom when it comes.

[Swordsmyth]

The Libertarian Party Chairman is Denouncing Ron Paul Again

[devil21]

^^^^^^^
Quite clearly there is a concerted effort underway to damage the Libertarian Party, which would be the loudest voices against the upcoming attack on Iran. Sarwark is obviously a CIA plant and working against the party that he somehow was elected to be chairman of.

[Brian4Liberty]

^^^^^^^
Quite clearly there is a concerted effort underway to damage the Libertarian Party, which would be the loudest voices against the upcoming attack on Iran. Sarwark is obviously a CIA plant and working against the party that he somehow was elected to be chairman of.

Within the Libertarian Party and libertarian movement in general, there is a certain split on non-intervention. Quite common. It depends on the intervention. Iran would probably be one of the just and righteous interventions in the eyes of some “libertarians”.

[euphemia]

^^^^^^^
Quite clearly there is a concerted effort underway to damage the Libertarian Party, which would be the loudest voices against the upcoming attack on Iran. Sarwark is obviously a CIA plant and working against the party that he somehow was elected to be chairman of.

No, the party has been doing it to itself. They have a constituency that continues to tolerate failure to uphold principles.

[devil21]

No, the party has been doing it to itself. They have a constituency that continues to tolerate failure to uphold principles.

One person speaks for the entire Libertarian Party now? Really? You honestly believe that?

Within the Libertarian Party and libertarian movement in general, there is a certain split on non-intervention. Quite common. It depends on the intervention. Iran would probably be one of the just and righteous interventions in the eyes of some “libertarians”.

Naaa, he's a plant. His background gives it away. I used to work at American University. It's basically just a CIA/globalist training school. As for the rest of your comment, I have never met a libertarian that supports pre-emptive war. Any one claiming to be libertarian but advocating the pre-emptive killing of innocent people on the other side of the planet is not a libertarian.

[Brian4Liberty]

One person speaks for the entire Libertarian Party now? Really? You honestly believe that?

Naaa, he's a plant. His background gives it away. I used to work at American University. It's basically just a CIA/globalist training school. As for the rest of your comment, I have never met a libertarian that supports pre-emptive war. Any one claiming to be libertarian but advocating the pre-emptive killing of innocent people on the other side of the planet is not a libertarian.

The caveat is usually “as long as it is voluntary”. Privately funded war is OK. Which leads to ho-hum resistance to government war. Mental gymnastics. Kind of like how a pro-abortion “libertarian” would oppose government funded abortion (ie. not very much).

Plant? Possible. Infiltration and takeover requires that.

[euphemia]

One person speaks for the entire Libertarian Party now? Really? You honestly believe that?

So where’s the rest of the party?

[Origanalist]

So where’s the rest of the party?

Getting nekked on stage.

[devil21]

So where’s the rest of the party?

Most of them got run off of websites like this because they could no longer tolerate the constant shilling and the "GOP-lite" bible thumpers that masquerade as libertarians.

[Swordsmyth]

I used to work at American University. It's basically just a CIA/globalist training school.

That would help explain a few things.

[devil21]

That would help explain a few things.

I imagine it would explain some things. I've personally seen the inside of some of "the swamp", instead of just reading about it on news websites.

[Swordsmyth]

I imagine it would explain some things. I've personally seen the inside of some of "the swamp", instead of just reading about it on news websites.

And we should just believe that you left it?
What was it you said about the LP guy?

Naaa, he's a plant. His background gives it away