Please explain.
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Please explain.
"The Patriarch"
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Please explain where most of his wealth has been generated by "crony capitalism" or even inheritance, and not just by good work. And living in a society where it is impossible not to work with government in some instances isn't proof.Originally Posted by Origanalist
Envy of the wealthy just for the sake of being wealthy is a leftist tactic.
I'm in with Ayn Rand here. In this circumstance, wealth or gold is a sign of virtue, not evil. And Trump's record is stellar as far as I see. Prove it - show that the majority of Trump's wealth has not been achieved by Trump for being good at what he does.
Last edited by SpiritOf1776_J4; 04-03-2016 at 11:16 PM.
I've never really understood the term crony capitalist or crony capitalism. This is essentially just protectionism given a new label that you guys are talking about, right? Or am I wrong about that?
Crony capitalism
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Crony capitalism is a term describing an economy in which success in business depends on close relationships between business people and government officials. It may be exhibited by favoritism in the distribution of legal permits, government grants, special tax breaks, or other forms of state interventionism.[1][2] Crony capitalism is believed to arise when business cronyism and related self-serving behavior by businesses or businesspeople spills over into politics and government,[3] or when self-serving friendships and family ties between businessmen and the government influence the economy and society to the extent that it corrupts public-serving economic and political ideals.
Lately it has just meant anyone we don't like who is successful
Okay. Thanks. So, then, essentially protectionism. Fascism even. Mercantilism in terms of foreign economic protectionism, too.
So many isms I lose track.
I never really heard the term until a couple of years ago.Lately it has just meant anyone we don't like who is successful
Well, I just posted this under "Nearly Naked‘Babes For Trump Want To Make America Great Again [PHOTOS]", so it's easy for me to look up:
http://www.vanityfair.com/news/2016/...eauty-pageants
Where is anything crony about that? Trump achieved his own wealth through his own good effort.Though he sold Miss Universe last year, the presidential candidate has always had an interesting relationship with the pageant world, as Judy Bachrach recalls.
BY JUDY BACHRACH
At one time or another, Donald Trump, the presidential candidate and newly minted anti-sexism warrior, has owned or co-owned three beauty pageants: Miss U.S.A., Miss Teen U.S.A., and Miss Universe. (All three of which fall under the Miss Universe Organization parent company.) In addition, Trump, in 2002, also had his sights set on the Miss World competition around the time that I was writing a story for Vanity Fair about the decision to hold that year’s competition in Nigeria—a nation with a large Muslim population—during the holy month of Ramadan. (Riots ensued, leaving 250 dead.) Trump’s reported intention was to wrest control of the beleaguered Miss World pageant—a rival to his Miss Universe—at a bargain price.
And it's that way about every business venture I've read about that he has been involved in. Trump is just good at business, and it isn't like Romney or others that you doubt about - I see very little government in any of it - so show how Trump got the majority of his wealth in an ill gotten manner. His record is outstanding as far as I can see.
Last edited by SpiritOf1776_J4; 04-03-2016 at 11:36 PM.
What difference does it make whether he got 10% or 100% of his wealth by being an unprincipled thieving establishment slimeball? If someone steals my wallet you are going to ask me to prove that the guy got his majority of his wealth by stealing? Good grief.
No. I wont rehash thing for the 1000th time. answer the question.
"The Patriarch"
Uh huh. That isn't "the majority of his wealth" is it?
And when you look it up, it isn't even a true story. That didn't happen.
I'm tired of leftist arguments based on envy against wealth on here - a free market boad. Trump earned his wealth, and he is one of the few candidates we've had in recent memory who has. None of it is from politics, not even a salary from being a career politician.
You've never answered it once. The widow story is a lie. And would hardly be "the majority of wealth" in any case.
If you want to act like a leftist and pretend that Trump got the majority of his wealth through ill gotten methods.
Prove it.
I keep posting links like the above (which is just Another example, I haven't even been reposting examples - there are so many), which you ignore - and just keep repeating the same crap over and over again like a marxist. Libertarians prove their points. And don't go about just attacking the idea of getting wealthy.
Last edited by SpiritOf1776_J4; 04-03-2016 at 11:46 PM.
"Crony capitalism" is essentially the practice of buying laws/regulations/favorable treatment from the government as a primary means of making a profit.
It can come in many forms - the targeted tax break, the direct subsidy, the government-enforced monopoly, pay-to-play contracting, regulatory capture, and so on.
It's more cronyism than capitalism, and it lives at the nexus of rent-seeking and political corruption. Hillary Clinton is essentially the living embodiment of this phenomenon, having become staggeringly rich off of abuse of public office in order to enrich those who provide bribe money to her.
I'm not really concerned with how Trump made his money. It isn't any of my business. Something that does bring me some pause is his position that government can and must alter the marketplace. An example of his position is reflected by his promise to, and I'll quote him here, “Make America great again” ... “We’re going to get things coming...We’re gonna get Apple to start building their damn computers and things in this country instead of in other countries.”
That seems counterintuitive to economic freedom. Am I mistaken to think that? Economic freedom is one of the fundamental things that made America great. And he is speaking out against it. Seems like he is saying that he wants to use the position of the presidency to use government force in a manner that impedes economic freedom by design. Well...of course, maybe he is talking about making deals with companies. But, then, this puts us right back to "cronyism" as you guys call it. Which is what got us in the mess we're in. Heh. Whackobirds.
Last edited by Natural Citizen; 04-04-2016 at 12:18 AM.
You've never answered it once. The widow story is a lie.
Trump didn't earn his wealth, he inherited it.
Trump is a slimeball, there really is no getting around it. However, there's a strong argument to be made that he could be a very useful slimeball, as well as being at least a wee bit less slimy than the other slimeballs (or a lot less in the case of one HRC, whose sleaze level is in historically uncharted territory).
Yeah, it's hard to deny that he isn't a career politician - and most of them get to be millionaires that route, even though they contribute nothing to society.LOLOL!!
Yup. Annenberg factcheck goes into details:
Analysis
Fox News hosted the March 3 debate in Detroit between Donald Trump, Ted Cruz, Marco Rubio and John Kasich.
Rubio/Trump on Trump’s Inheritance
Rubio said Trump built his business with $100 million he “inherited” from his father, Fred, who also was a developer. Trump said that’s wrong and claimed that he “started with $1 million” and turned that into a $10 billion company. Rubio is exaggerating, and Trump is underestimating the value of his father’s contributions to his business.
We don’t know how much Trump may have inherited, but the $100 million figure isn’t supported by Rubio or anything in the public record. However, Trump got significant help from his father to build his company beyond $1 million.
Rubio raised the issue of Trump’s inheritance when moderator Chris Wallace noted that Rubio has been critical of Trump’s business savvy and asked Rubio how many jobs he had created. Rubio said, “He talks about these great businesses that he’s built. He inherited over $100 million.” Trump interrupted, saying, “Wrong. Wrong.”
This exchange was similar to the last debate, on Feb. 25, when Rubio claimed that Trump inherited $200 million.
How much did Trump inherit? His campaign declined to tell us. However, we have some information that is in the public record.
Fred Trump, who was also a developer, died in 1999, and the New York Times at the time wrote that “his estate has been estimated by the family at $250 million to $300 million.” More recently, the Times in a Jan. 2 story wrote that Fred’s will “divided the bulk of the inheritance, at least $20 million, among his children and their descendants, ‘other than my son Fred C. Trump Jr.,’ ” who died in 1981. At the time, there were four surviving children, Robert, Donald, Maryanne and Elizabeth.
So, it would appear, that Donald Trump did not receive $100 million or $200 million, as Rubio claimed.
The Rubio campaign did not respond last month when we asked about the $200 million inheritance claim. But the senator seems to be referring to the value of Fred C. Trump’s business at the time Donald joined the family business in the 1970s. In the 1991 book, “Trumped! The Inside Story of the Real Donald Trump,” former Trump executive John R. O’Donnell writes that Fred Trump was a developer of middle-income apartments in the New York boroughs of Queens, Brooklyn and Staten Island. It was Donald Trump who moved the family business into Manhattan.
“Over the years, Fred Trump had forged strong connections with the city’s Democratic party machine,” O’Donnell writes. “In the late 1970s, his son brought those connections and an estimable family fortune of $200 million to Manhattan, where he parlayed them into a real estate empire that would ultimately be worth over $2 billion.”
That brings us to Trump’s claim that he started his company with just $1 million — which underestimates his father’s contributions.
In his response to Rubio, Trump said, “Believe me, I started off with $1 million. I built a company that’s worth more than $10 billion. And I say it not in a bragging way, but that’s the kind of thinking we need.”
Trump’s campaign told us that he borrowed $1 million from his father, but it did not tell us when or for what reason. Fred Trump’s obituary in the Times said that he “lent support — and a small amount of money — to his son Donald’s aspirations of becoming a developer.”
However, as O’Donnell’s book suggests, Donald Trump’s success wasn’t built just on a $1 million loan. Another Trump author, Gwenda Blair, who wrote “The Trumps: Three Generations of Builders,” told us in an email that Donald Trump benefited from his father’s “considerable financial and political clout.”
“I would note that what was just as important as any cash loan to Donald’s success was Fred’s willingness to co-guarantee the construction loan on Donald’s first Manhattan project, the Grand Hyatt, and also Fred’s willingness to put his own considerable financial and political clout at Donald’s disposal,” Blair told us.
Blair also said that Fred Trump loaned more than $1 million on at least one occasion. It occurred in December 1990, “when Donald Trump’s finances were in a dire state,” she said.
“His father loaned him $3.3 million by sending an emissary to buy poker chips in that amount at Trump Castle Casino in Atlantic City and not cashing them in. The loan, which allowed Donald Trump to make an interest payment to Castle bondholders, was illegal because only sources certified by the Casino Control Commission are allowed to make loans to casinos,” Blair wrote to us. “The Castle was fined $65,000, but the Commission declined to investigate Fred’s or Donald’s role in this illegal transfer; instead it certified Fred as a lender and allowed the Castle to pay the loan back over time rather than immediately.”
In the end, both Trump and Rubio are stretching the facts with their claims about Trump’s finances.
Sorry, that is completely untrue.
According to fortune, he has about one hundred times the wealth of his father (allowing that his father had 30-50 million). He EARNED his wealth, and was far more successful then anyone was in his family.
But it goes further than that too. His father also don't give him that wealth. He started out with a million dollar loan, and went from there. By the time his father died, he was already much more wealthy.
This stuff I'm hearing is Marxist crap. I'm sorry if you all are not marxists, because your regurgitating their crap. It's far enough in the primary season to do your own honest research and quit believing lies whose essence is "it's wrong to be wealthy".
Ayn Rand didn't think it was wrong to inherit money either. Many of the principle characters in her book Atlas Shrug were from wealthy families. But also she pointed out - and it's in the jewish bible (ot) too, you don't keep inherited money or grow it unless you know what you are doing.
Last edited by SpiritOf1776_J4; 04-04-2016 at 12:40 AM.
@SpiritOf1776_J4
Don't lose the forest for the trees. Trump's only relevant quality is not being an insider to the CFR program, and thus his potential to disrupt it. He needs no more virtue than that to be the most compelling option for us.
His job, from my point of view, is to deal damage to that program. Whether it's intentional or not, motivated by the right things or not, that's all totally unimportant. All that's important is derailing the program, since the end goal of that program is the entire human race permanently enslaved to a tiny elite made nigh-immortal by technology. There is no greater threat to human liberty that has ever existed, and possibly that ever could exist.
None of that changes the fact he is a crony capitalist. My question stands.
"The Patriarch"
http://www.express.co.uk/finance/cit...make-his-money
http://time.com/3968432/donald-trump-worth-money-rich/
http://www.fool.com/investing/genera...8-03-2015.aspx
Because he doesn’t waste his money:
“Donald Trump's abrasive, longshot campaign for the Republican nomination for president is looking less unrealistic after big wins in early primaries in New Hampshire and South Carolina. So far he's had to spend only $18 million of his $4.5 billion fortune on his run (in all, his campaign has raised just $25 million). Trump has stirred controversy, starting with negative remarks in June 2015 about Mexican immigrants and his call to build a wall between Mexico and the U. More »”
A trump detractor at SLATE nevertheless attacking the ill gotten gains myth:
http://www.slate.com/blogs/moneybox/...f_his_dad.html
http://www.newsmax.com/TheWire/donal.../15/id/650573/
Likes vanilla cherry icecream
I see no reason to believe this is true. Everything he is saying is a recent conversion late in life. Are any of his current stances a long time held belief?
"The Patriarch"
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