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Thread: Is it too late even for Ron Paul to save us?

  1. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by cindy25 View Post
    all the foreign wars, plus the useless bases in Germany, Korea and Japan would not reach $400 billion a year. deficit is nearly $2 trillion.

    name where the other cuts come from.
    Hi Cindy, did you read Ron Paul's platform when he ran in 2008? Have you read any of the legislation he has introduced in the last few years?



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  3. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by cindy25 View Post
    had he been elected in 2008, just by dismantling the empire, freezing hiring and salaries the budget would have been in balance; all doable without congress. or by using a veto.

    but now the cuts have to draconian. ending food stamps etc.

    can you see 60 senators and a house majority voting for that?
    Well just as a matter of principle, no one man can "save us". We are the only ones who can save ourselves, and I think that should come before politics.



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  5. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by MsDoodahs View Post
    We've passed the tipping point, it is too late to avoid the pain.
    That^^^

    Talk of slowly morphing out of the welfare/warfare state is just that, talk.

    It's going to suddenly and painfully collapse either way, on our terms or somebody else will set the terms.

    The time is long past for natural wellness cures.

    This is stage four gangrene, immediate radical surgery and amputation is required.

    The alternative is death.
    Another mark of a tyrant is that he likes foreigners better than citizens, and lives with them and invites them to his table; for the one are enemies, but the Others enter into no rivalry with him. - Aristotle's Politics Book 5 Part 11

  6. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by speciallyblend View Post
    i suggest everyone make sure they have -40 north face sleeping bags, seems the best on the market for the money and your life! Another essential is a good water filter! i fear angelatc is correct. america might be beyond saving! to broke to buy land already lost everything i worked for since 18 but i am doing my best to learn high altitude growing and to start over!

    my short term goal buy some farm land in colorado and pay my slave taxes and do my best to keep government out of my life! Grow your own food and prepare for the worse to come! that is what i am expecting. when you look at the 2 failed parties. we should expect nothing but failure from our government!!
    The FEMA camp conspiracy is making more sense everyday as we get closer to total collapse. I don't believe the government is going to allow 100 million+ people to roam around the country, scrounge for food, and to sleep in the streets in sleeping bags.
    "..and on Earth anguish of nations, not knowing the way out...while men become faint out of fear and expectation of the things coming upon the inhabited Earth." -- Jesus of Nazareth

  7. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post
    That^^^

    Talk of slowly morphing out of the welfare/warfare state is just that, talk.

    It's going to suddenly and painfully collapse either way, on our terms or somebody else will set the terms.

    The time is long past for natural wellness cures.

    This is stage four gangrene, immediate radical surgery and amputation is required.

    The alternative is death.
    Not picking on you, but you were the nearest example.

    Which has always made me wonder why people who think we're past the tipping point... are on forums dedicated to someone that won't make a lick of difference by being elected. Far from it! A lot of people are far more interested in the collapse than they are in doing anything, and would hope someone even worse than Obama gets elected so it hurries along.

    An increasing number of people around here are reminding me of the ratpurephiles who help instability along, in the hopes of the Second Coming happening in their lifetime.
    Genuine, willful, aggressive ignorance is the one sure way to tick me off. I wish I could say you were trolling. I know better, and it's just sad.

  8. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by MelissaWV View Post
    Not picking on you, but you were the nearest example.

    Which has always made me wonder why people who think we're past the tipping point... are on forums dedicated to someone that won't make a lick of difference by being elected. Far from it! A lot of people are far more interested in the collapse than they are in doing anything, and would hope someone even worse than Obama gets elected so it hurries along.

    An increasing number of people around here are reminding me of the ratpurephiles who help instability along, in the hopes of the Second Coming happening in their lifetime.
    Quite simple really.

    It's to exhaust every single option, to at least go through the motions of "working within the system", to do what the founders did prior to the signing of the Declaration of Independence.

    To have the moral high ground of saying that we tried everything, before coming down to a fight.

    And there's always the possibility we (the doom and gloom crowd) are wrong. So much the better, I hope we are.
    Another mark of a tyrant is that he likes foreigners better than citizens, and lives with them and invites them to his table; for the one are enemies, but the Others enter into no rivalry with him. - Aristotle's Politics Book 5 Part 11

  9. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by MelissaWV View Post
    A lot of people are far more interested in the collapse than they are in doing anything, and would hope someone even worse than Obama gets elected so it hurries along.

    An increasing number of people around here are reminding me of the rapturephiles who help instability along, in the hopes of the Second Coming happening in their lifetime.
    I've been singing this song in these forums for a while now. And I've even made the analogy that you refer to as "rapturphiles" as well, pointing out that the an-cap doomsday atheists have more in common with apocalyptaholics than they think.

    But my ranting against this meme isn't helping any more than what anyone else is doing. I'm starting to wonder what substance there even is to this movement beyond the people who've become involved in the campaigns. I know there's lots of people floating around left over from the RP campaign, many of whom have switched to the Kokesh/Rand/Schiff campaigns, but most of whats active online outside the campaigns seems to be a lot of people with good intentions and anxiety issues who refuse to see that our "movement" is not grounded in any kind of organizational activities.

    The Kansas CFL has supposedly around 2200 members. Only about 500 of those actually have user accounts created. Of those only about half have ever actually logged into it. Of those, more than half haven't logged in, in over a year (including our county coordinator). The state coordinator mostly parrots what the national coordinator is posting doing.

    Point is, that CFL is basically a failed attempt to turn the RP campaigns mailing/donation list into a social network. It's still just a mailing/donation list. That's not bad in itself, whats bad is people online put up this facade that we're part of a "movement" when in fact we're mostly commenting on a movement that exists mostly in our minds.

    I think the key to rebuilding is engaging one another, in some kind of organizational manner, outside the "campaign" paradigm. We don't lack ideas or motivation, we lack strategy.

    I wish I knew the best way forward but I don't. And what bothers me most I think is this pervading belief within the liberty "movement" that everything is humming along as efficiently as is possible and that we're all part of something and that the path is clear, when secretly most of our "hopes" are positive Hail Mary #1 that RP wins the Presidency, and Negative Hail Mary #2 that we get Gary North style Y2K induced economic collapse.

    I think before anything is going to really change though, many of us need to realize where we've gotten our minds stuck at.
    When a trumpet sounds in a city, do not the people tremble?
    When disaster comes to a city, has not the Lord caused it? Amos 3:6

  10. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by MN Patriot View Post
    How is one man going to save us? Ron isn't an omnipotent messiah who can wave his hand and solve our problems. We need millions of people to wake up and take back our government.
    It seems a lot of people on these boards and moreso in the general population think the president should have the powers of a dictator.
    Quote Originally Posted by Torchbearer
    what works can never be discussed online. there is only one language the government understands, and until the people start speaking it by the magazine full... things will remain the same.
    Hear/buy my music here "government is the enemy of liberty"-RP Support me on Patreon here Ephesians 6:12

  11. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by cindy25 View Post
    had he been elected in 2008, just by dismantling the empire, freezing hiring and salaries the budget would have been in balance; all doable without congress. or by using a veto.

    but now the cuts have to draconian. ending food stamps etc.

    can you see 60 senators and a house majority voting for that?
    He has already saved us, he was the spark that started this fire of education. Change will come from within...
    Last edited by lucius; 08-16-2010 at 12:59 PM.
    "Masterful and arrogant wealth, created largely by Government protection of its profits, not content with its domination and influence within a single party, had sought to corrupt them both, and to that end had insinuated itself into the primaries, in order that no candidates might be nominated whose views were not in accord with theirs." (‘Colonel’ Edward Mandell House in 'Philip Dru: Administrator', circa 1912)

  12. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by YumYum View Post
    The FEMA camp conspiracy is making more sense everyday as we get closer to total collapse. I don't believe the government is going to allow 100 million+ people to roam around the country, scrounge for food, and to sleep in the streets in sleeping bags.
    your right, they would have to kill me before i ever go live in a fema camp! reminds me of the Red Dawn Camps except the camps wouldn't be run by the enemy but our own government!! sounds like a good base for Red Dawn 3 Fight The tyranny, Movie!!
    2016 gop est business as usual, rules do not apply.



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  14. #41
    I am starting to believe it is too late and that the nation is too far gone. How can one man overcome years of indoctrination and propaganda.

    The fact is the majority of this country is completely ignorant to the fact that candidates and politicians they support are directly responsible for government aggression and oppressive policies used against them.

    They blindly worship at the altar of government and do not even realize it due to years of indoctrination. Their idols will cry foul about any politician, candidate or party that proposes to reduce to size of government and eliminate policies that oppress the people of this nation. These sheep out of fear will continue to vote for those that oppress them.

    I am starting to believe regional independence movements or an economic collapse will be the only means that some will realize freedom in our life time.
    Last edited by kahless; 08-16-2010 at 11:24 AM.

  15. #42
    You guys continually underestimate the surviving power of the modern state. They don't fall easy. If countrys like Afghanistan who past the tipping point at least 14275643.9 miles ago can remain cohesive, forget about the US falling in any foreseeable future especially given that the US doesn't have any historic ancient ethnic divisions along territorial lines.

    So, it's not gonna happen.
    It'll make for a delightful libertarian campfire side conversations though

    What can happen is life becoming incredibly miserable, and the country's image being further tarnished and hated (yeah there is still a further low point that still eludes us IMHO).
    So our job should be fighting to improve the now. Restoring the powers back to the states. A likely consequence would be a substantial population of libertines in one state like New Hampshire. We could put in effect our ides there and see if we are worthy of being emulated.
    Last edited by LibertyVox; 08-16-2010 at 11:30 AM.

  16. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by LibertyVox View Post
    So our job should be fighting to improve the now. Restoring the powers back to the states. A likely consequence would be a substantial population of libertines in one state like New Hampshire. We could put in effect our ides there and see if we are worthy of being emulated.
    The problem with that is most states are worse than the federal government. Off the top of my head, if NY for example was independent none of the below would change. This is why regional independence movements are more likely to be the answer in the future.

    1. Property and school taxes

    • Property taxes are so high that even if you outright own property you are still really renting it from the government due to the oppressive tax policies. With the federal government out of the picture we would have more money in our pockets to pay these taxes but the level of taxation on private land is still unacceptable.

    • Seniors and young people are being forced from their homes and to leave the state. How could anyone justify making seniors and the childless pay disapportionately and outrageous high public school taxes. Bad enough for young people but imagine having to relocate as a senior citizen after living there all your life. Those with grown children or the childless should not be subject to this tax in the first place.

    • Private schools are closing because people cannot afford the public school taxes and pay for private school at the same time. No vouchers here. Schools are basically indoctrination camps for the progressive agenda here.

    • Property taxes and enforcement is clearly an act of aggression against the citizens of NY.

    2. Government intervention in personal affairs. State incentive and profit from destruction of families.
    • 50% of marriages with children end in divorce. If it was not for government intervention most divorced parents would share custody and expenses. Most states including NY have an adversarial system with a financial incentive for one parent to make the other a slave through spousal and child support.

      The states due to "welfare reform" receive federal dollars to uphold and implement such policies. The policy would not likely change without the federal government but at least the incentives and profiteering from it would be reduced.

    • Thus both federal and state policies in this case create a financial incentive to separate one parent from their children, create a single parent household and create a master - slave relationship enforced by the government for 21 years.

    • "Ability to earn" policy allow the government to dictate the slaves career. Failure to comply results in violence to the slave from the local authorities and debtors prison.

    • Exceptions to prevent arrears due to illness or physical disability are not allowed. (this federal clause would disappear but some states have implemented the same policies)

    • Thus the state creates an atmosphere where all divorced parents with children live in constant fear of government retribution if their ability to earn in the career of NY states choice. Federal incentives supporting such policies would disappear but the laws at the state level would still exist.

    • The military industrial complex (defense contractors) manages the child support and social welfare systems in most states so the profit incentive if the federal government disappeared would not change.

    • The elimination of the federal government would not change any of this other than federal incentives the states receive and eliminating the federal office of child support enforcement.

    Last edited by kahless; 08-16-2010 at 12:49 PM.

  17. #44
    I don't think it's too late for this country.

    Quote Originally Posted by acptulsa View Post
    "There is no way to stop this country. Just quit listening to the politicians..."--Will Rogers 1935
    Simply put, yes we had a lot of natural resources that helped us become the powerhouse we are. That said, not all of these natural resources were buried in the ground just waiting for someone with some dynamite and a shovel to come collect it. Some of our natural resources were made. Thomas Edison, for example. He was an American Natural Resource, and he was made a natural resource (or rather, allowed to be a natural resource), by freedom.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    We believe our lying eyes...

  18. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by MN Patriot View Post
    How is one man going to save us? Ron isn't an omnipotent messiah who can wave his hand and solve our problems. We need millions of people to wake up and take back our government.
    Agree. Ron as president would accomplish an immense amount of good things, but he alone can't save the republic. Ron is just a man; eventually he will die, like all people.

    The only way we can truly win the battle for liberty is by winning the war of ideas, which outlive men and endure generation to generation.

  19. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by acptulsa View Post
    I don't think it's too late for this country.



    Simply put, yes we had a lot of natural resources that helped us become the powerhouse we are. That said, not all of these natural resources were buried in the ground just waiting for someone with some dynamite and a shovel to come collect it. Some of our natural resources were made. Thomas Edison, for example. He was an American Natural Resource, and he was made a natural resource (or rather, allowed to be a natural resource), by freedom.
    The Soviet Union had plenty of those people to. I want to experience freedom in my life time and not have to wait 72 years for the progressives to fail.

  20. #47
    As long as people continue to think it's one person who will save us, then yes...we are screwed.
    "The individual is handicapped by coming face-to-face with a conspiracy so monstrous he cannot believe it exists." - J. Edgar Hoover

  21. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by kahless View Post
    The problem with that is most states are worse than the federal government.
    you nailed it.

    the difference is it's a lot easier to move to a better state than a diff country. It's also easier to win a seat in state gvmt and change things.

    -t



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  23. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by RPgrassrootsactivist View Post
    Agree. Ron as president would accomplish an immense amount of good things, but he alone can't save the republic. Ron is just a man; eventually he will die, like all people.

    The only way we can truly win the battle for liberty is by winning the war of ideas, which outlive men and endure generation to generation.
    Beside that, he will be gone in 8 years in the best of circumstances.

    Another admin gets in and undoes any good that gets done.

  24. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by heavenlyboy34 View Post
    It seems a lot of people on these boards and moreso in the general population think the president should have the powers of a dictator.
    That is the only way a substantive change could come about.

    But even if we had a 'saint dictator' things and people change. The next dictator or the next or the next will be a Hitler...it is human nature.

  25. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by YumYum View Post
    That's it. We are at the tipping point now, can people imagine how bad it will be by 2012?

    Politicians talk about cutting domestic spending, but no politician has the guts, except Ron Paul, to talk about cutting foreign aid. Putting Ron Paul in office in 2012 is like changing captains on the Titanic after if hit the iceberg.
    That about sums it up!

    We have tons of problems on the horizon even if our political sytem was fine.

    Besides Peak Oil, Peak Food, Peak Water, Peak NG, Peak Uranium, Overpopulation and a poisonous polluted world we have created here is a list of threats facing humans from S.R.T.



    NATURAL THREATS

    Natural Disasters on and from the Earth
    Short Term and Regional
    -Severe Storms, Wind, Lightening
    -Hurricanes, Typhoons, Cyclones, Superstorms
    -Tornados
    -Tsunami/Tidal Waves
    -Floods
    -Fires - Forest/Brush
    -Landslides
    -Sinkholes
    -Drought (Dust Bowl)
    -Earthquake
    -Volcano
    -Animal caused famine (ie. locusts)
    -Disease, Plague, Pandemics coming from nature (ie. bird flu)

    Long Term / Climate Change
    -Global Warming
    -Ice Caps Melting, Oceans rising
    -Ozone Loss/UV Damage
    -Gulf stream changes, climate shift
    -Global Cooling/Ice Age
    -Global Pole Shift

    Natural Disasters from Beyond the Earth and not caused by man
    -Asteroid or Comet Impact
    -Black Holes/Worm Holes
    -Solar Flares/Coronal Ejections/Gamma Burst
    -Alien Invasion, non-intelligent (Andromeda Strain, virus, bacteria)
    -Alien Invasion intelligent life (War of the Worlds Scenario)
    -Religious End of the World (Anti-Christ, Second Coming, etc.)

    MAN MADE THREATS
    Man-made Accidental Disasters
    -Nuclear Reactor Disaster
    -Chemical Disaster
    -Biological Disaster
    -Fires
    -Grid failures, failures in technology that bring down services
    -Climate change caused by mankind
    -Genetic Engineering gone wrong GMO fears
    -Nanobots gone wrong the gray goo, replicants, Blob scenario
    -Artificial computers smarter than man Cylons, Terminator

    Wars, Acts of Terrorism (Intentional Acts)
    -Nuclear weapons
    -Biological Weapons (small pox, anthrax, ricin, etc.)
    -Chemical Weapons (never gas, mustard gas etc.)
    -Conventional explosives/weapons
    -Cyber attack attack by software control
    -Individual levels such as identity theft
    -"Fire sale" attacks which bring down the grid
    -EMP attack or anything that takes out electronic hardware, computers

    Government, Economic
    -Progressive Loss of Freedoms to Individuals
    -Big Brother fears, NAIS for humans, implanted micro-chips
    -Economic Collapse breakdowns, depression, hyper-inflation
    -Social or Government Collapse/Revolution
    -World socialism, World Government take over, World Dictator
    -Conspiracy theories coming true
    -Corporate controlled World
    Last edited by keepitlow; 08-30-2010 at 11:35 AM.

  26. #52
    But I have to ask...if many of you are not thinking RP will save the USA - what are you doing here?

    for me, I am here for news.

  27. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by keepitlow View Post
    But I have to ask...if many of you are not thinking RP will save the USA - what are you doing here?

    for me, I am here for news.
    Unlike the Captain of the Titanic, we believe that Ron Paul will make sure that all the lifeboats are full before he has them lowered.
    "..and on Earth anguish of nations, not knowing the way out...while men become faint out of fear and expectation of the things coming upon the inhabited Earth." -- Jesus of Nazareth

  28. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by cindy25 View Post
    all the foreign wars, plus the useless bases in Germany, Korea and Japan would not reach $400 billion a year. deficit is nearly $2 trillion.

    name where the other cuts come from.
    Here's the problem: The central banking empire deals with control, not money. The base in Japan is protection for Japan- last time I checked, the US blew 2 of it's cities to smitherenes and obliterated it's army. In return the US gets a trade surplus from Japan.

    I'm not saying you wrong. You are right. But this world is a designed web of deceit all the power in the hands of the banking elite/monarchs/mega corporations. There are always unintended consequences to our actions and doing what you suggest, although the right thing to do in theory would likely result in war. Everything is coming down to war anyway, but like I said- this $#@! is a trap.
    "Like an army falling, one by one by one" - Linkin Park

  29. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by cindy25 View Post
    I just think no one else could even come close.

    things are much worse than people think. just one small sign, people giving up their dogs in Louisiana. this did not even happen during the depression. and that its happening in the south!
    no region has a more dog oriented people.

    CA, IL and NY could cut 50% and still not be in balance.
    The difference between the depression and now was that back then our money was backed by metals. Money was not created out of thin air.

    This time round things would have collapsed globally in a much worse depression except for the fact that we can create trillions through magnetizing a microchip. We create $$ by just saying it is there!

  30. #56



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  32. #57
    Is it too late even for Ron Paul to save us?

    Waiting and searching for others to save you is already a loss in itself.
    FJB

  33. #58
    Not if he were declared king...
    NeoReactionary. American High Tory.

    The counter-revolution will not be televised.

  34. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by ThePaleoLibertarian View Post
    Not if he were declared king...
    Ron is himself, already saved by a King. If people want to be saved, they should look into Him.

    Anyway, I still think post #37 is quite relevant. Only change is my understanding of strategy is progressed, while the movement is as full of apocalypto-philes as ever. Mostly of the secular variety.
    When a trumpet sounds in a city, do not the people tremble?
    When disaster comes to a city, has not the Lord caused it? Amos 3:6

  35. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by cindy25 View Post
    had he been elected in 2008, just by dismantling the empire, freezing hiring and salaries the budget would have been in balance; all doable without congress. or by using a veto.

    but now the cuts have to draconian. ending food stamps etc.

    can you see 60 senators and a house majority voting for that?
    Ron Paul was never going to save us.

    To believe otherwise denotes a serious break with positive reality.
    freedomisobvious.blogspot.com

    There is only one correct way: freedom. All other solutions are non-solutions.

    It appears that artificial intelligence is at least slightly superior to natural stupidity.

    Our words make us the ghosts that we are.

    Convincing the world he didn't exist was the Devil's second greatest trick; the first was convincing us that God didn't exist.

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