President Trump, If You're Reading This...

[Swordsmyth]

...Yeah, I don't even need them to support Trump. Just acknowledge the suffocating political reality we currently exist in. And it's unfortunate that criticism of posts is seen as "you just want this to become the Trump forums". I guess the issue is that there are two different lenses you can read the posts through.

The more ""hard right""/self-preservationist conservatives already see the bad policies as bad. Making the post that a bad policy is bad doesn't doesn't do much for us. Unfortunately, there is a multitude of factions on RPF, the "lefties" (some of which will even advocate for Sanders), who love to use these threads as ammunition to further conflate "Orange Man Bad". So, yeah, they love to fan the flames, and people who are tired of the negativity have to respond "yeah, dude, you clearly aren't putting this into context. ..Have you really ran the scenarios, of what would happen in the real world, with the available alternatives?" Because substituting a fairytale is silly. Just go full fairytale at that point.

So. I get it. The bailout sucks. Given the current climate, there really isn't a way around it. I'm glad that the idea of suspending the payroll tax was suggested by Trump, sucks that it's not going to go anywhere. Maybe we can try to highlight positive proposals like those, get good press going, and get better from the next guy. It beats putting the Universal Healthcare and UBI guy in office. Yeah, those presidential speeches would really piss me off.

You must spread some reputation around..............

[PAF]

...Yeah, I don't even need them to support Trump. Just acknowledge the suffocating political reality we currently exist in. And it's unfortunate that criticism of posts is seen as "you just want this to become the Trump forums". I guess the issue is that there are two different lenses you can read the posts through.

The more ""hard right""/self-preservationist conservatives already see the bad policies as bad. Making the post that a bad policy is bad doesn't doesn't do much for us. Unfortunately, there is a multitude of factions on RPF, the "lefties" (some of which will even advocate for Sanders), who love to use these threads as ammunition to further conflate "Orange Man Bad". So, yeah, they love to fan the flames, and people who are tired of the negativity have to respond "yeah, dude, you clearly aren't putting this into context. ..Have you really ran the scenarios, of what would happen in the real world, with the available alternatives?" Because substituting a fairytale is silly. Just go full fairytale at that point.

So. I get it. The bailout sucks. Given the current climate, there really isn't a way around it. I'm glad that the idea of suspending the payroll tax was suggested by Trump, sucks that it's not going to go anywhere. Maybe we can try to highlight positive proposals like those, get good press going, and get better from the next guy. It beats putting the Universal Healthcare and UBI guy in office. Yeah, those presidential speeches would really piss me off.

You are supporting a system where 1 step forward yields 3 steps back. If people wised up, all Republicans to start with, stood firm on principle without ever wavering, I could see some positive maybe taking effect.

The 2-party duopoly is expert in the field, throwing little bones here and there to appease those who view politics like a football team.

Read my signature. Study it. Share it. Hold it to your heart. Because if people fail to stand firm on that and never ever waver, and instead sacrifice a tiny bit of liberty for any security, ALL bets are off.

[acptulsa]

Trump isn't an honest man. That's fine. Practically 0 Presidents/politicians have been for the past 100 years, barring the extremely few exceptions.

The figure you're looking for is 92 years. And if the figure isn't zero, blame Eisenhower, and maybe Jimmy Carter. No, that's not fine.

Reasonable people should be able to capitalize on any breadcrumbs that exist, and hope to get them expanded upon.

Settling for bread crumbs hasn't gotten us more bread crumbs. Settling for the lesser evil hasn't gotten us less evil. Settling for the prepackaged "solutions" they offer and you advocate hasn't improved the package. Voting Democrat hasn't gotten Democrats more civil liberties. Voting Republican hasn't resulted in less abortions. Following the conventional wisdom has proven unwise--for ninety-two years straight.

What's that definition of insanity, again?

Admit it. You will never, ever have the leverage you need to force one of the lesser evils to just stop being evil unless and until a scary number of us pile off this bus and start throwing tacks on the road.

[106459]

The figure you're looking for is 92 years. And if the figure isn't zero, blame Eisenhower, and maybe Jimmy Carter. No, that's not fine.



Settling for bread crumbs hasn't gotten us more bread crumbs. Settling for the lesser evil hasn't gotten us less evil. Settling for the prepackaged "solutions" they offer and you advocate hasn't improved the package. Voting Democrat hasn't gotten Democrats more civil liberties. Voting Republican hasn't resulted in less abortions. Following the conventional wisdom has proven unwise--fir ninety-two years straight.

What's that definition of insanity, again?

Oh. We're back to "getting a tax cut can't possibly be good, because it's just a breadcrumb". Despite its objective goodness.

I'm not interested in your posts that love to cast stones from glass houses. Until you have a solution that's going to improve my life, I'm gonna back the guy who decreased my tax bill.

Maybe if we had less people like you who seem to love "don't even bother voting Republican, it's all $#@!ed", we wouldn't have to settle for the right-left dread march to full totalitarianism. Maybe we could build incremental progress, and get fake-conservative Republican, little less fake conservative, starting to look conservative.

-Ron Paul understood this. Left the R party in 1987; came back in 1996. It's well understood that 3rd parties don't work in the USA, that's just not going to change.

We could get activism going, so that we could capitalize on the fact that an entire 40% of the population doesn't even vote, in the Presidential election alone, so that conservatives with good ideas could consistently win. But nah, $#@! it. Anyone who participates in the political process is insane. Tell me man: why are you still wasting your time, 49,000 posts later, when you have been so ineffectual?

[106459]

Admit it. You will never, ever have the leverage you need to force one of the lesser evils to just stop being evil unless and until a scary number of us pile off this bus and start throwing tacks on the road.

Nope; disagree. Sounds like a great way to divide and conquer. You can split the 20 different flavors of "libertarianism and true conservatism" all into their meaningless, circle-jerk factions.

And unfortunately, I'm not fully up to date on all the political history, but I'm sure there are people who can talk about how the tea party was co-opted and given a bad name. Easy to take a small group, make it a bunch of "fringe, angry racists", suppress it, and move along.

Nope. The Republican party has plenty of good rhetoric that they just need to be held accountable for.

Other than that: nope, I don't have faith in the political process. I'll go to economic means and vote with my feet, spend money with those I support.

[acptulsa]

OhI'm not interested in your posts that love to cast stones from glass houses. Until you have a solution that's going to improve my life, I'm gonna back the guy who decreased my tax bill.

I'll let Sam Adams answer you:

If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or your arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.

Nope. The Republican party has plenty of good rhetoric that they just need to be held accountable for.

Just that simple, is it? Got any ideas on how to make enough money doing it to buy the mainstream media?

Or are you just here to tell us to lick those hands?

[Swordsmyth]

I'll let Sam Adams answer you:

That's not the choice.

The choice is between incremental progress towards liberty along with improved economics and total destruction of both.

[acptulsa]

That's not the choice.

The choice is between incremental progress towards liberty along with improved economics and total destruction of both.

Incrementalism has never gone that direction, keyboard warrior. Never, ever. Not even once.

Now what? Go insane and keep trying it, just knowing it'll work next time?

[106459]

I'll let Sam Adams answer you:

If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or your arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.

Cute, mate. Yeah, I'll be real afraid of the army they can't afford to pay, because they had to keep giving people's money back.

[acptulsa]

Cute, mate. Yeah, I'll be real afraid of the army they can't afford to pay, because they had to keep giving people's money back.

News flash: They print their own. They don't even have to print money any more; they can just type a code in a computer now. How do we cut off their supply of electrons?

They don't care. It's our savings they're making worthless.

[Swordsmyth]

Incrementalism has never gone that direction, keyboard warrior. Never, ever. Not even once.

Now what? Go insane and keep trying it, just knowing it'll work next time?

It has gone in that direction and it will again.

The Founding Fathers were the result of many generations of incremental progress in European culture, the BoR didn't spring fully formed from the head of Zeus.

[RonZeplin]

Helicopter Money Wealth Spread Socialism.

[acptulsa]

It has gone in that direction...

When?

The Founding Fathers were the result of many generations of incremental progress in European culture, the BoR didn't spring fully formed from the head of Zeus.

The hell you say. The Founding Fathers manned up and fought a bloody revolution for the right to write the Bill of Rights. Licking John Bull's hand got them incrementalized into tyranny, and they threw it off all at once, at the barrels of flintlocks.

[Swordsmyth]

When?



The hell you say. The Founding Fathers manned up and fought a bloody revolution for the right to write the Bill of Rights. Licking John Bull's hand got them incrementalized into tyranny, and they threw it off all at once, at the barrels of flintlocks.

They indeed launched an acute attack on tyranny, I said THEY themselves were the result of incremental progress over centuries, I did not say the Revolution was a case of incrementalism.

There is a time for both and for the present we need incrementalism.

[acptulsa]

They indeed launched an acute attack on tyranny, I said THEY themselves were the result of incremental progress over centuries, I did not say the Revolution was a case of incrementalism.

There is a time for both and for the present we need incrementalism.

You said incrementalism can and has gone other than the wrong way. I'm not talking about evolution of political philosophy. I'm talking about people who are not free achieving liberty incrementally. And you were, too, until you decided to try to spin your way out of the corner you painted yourself into by changing the subject.

Who has ever achieved liberty incrementally?

[Swordsmyth]

You said incrementalism can and has gone other than the wrong way. I'm not talking about evolution of political philosophy. I'm talking about people who are not free achieving liberty incrementally. And you were, too, until you decided to try to spin your way out of the corner you painted yourself into by changing the subject.

Who has ever achieved liberty incrementally?

The people of Britain had achieved far more liberty than they had in centuries past through incremental change.
They were the freest people in Europe and they and the Founding fathers were proud of that, that's why the Founders took it so hard when the English parliament sought to impose tyranny on them.

[Theocrat]

Oh. We're back to "getting a tax cut can't possibly be good, because it's just a breadcrumb". Despite its objective goodness.

I'm not interested in your posts that love to cast stones from glass houses. Until you have a solution that's going to improve my life, I'm gonna back the guy who decreased my tax bill.

Maybe if we had less people like you who seem to love "don't even bother voting Republican, it's all $#@!ed", we wouldn't have to settle for the right-left dread march to full totalitarianism. Maybe we could build incremental progress, and get fake-conservative Republican, little less fake conservative, starting to look conservative.

-Ron Paul understood this. Left the R party in 1987; came back in 1996. It's well understood that 3rd parties don't work in the USA, that's just not going to change.

We could get activism going, so that we could capitalize on the fact that an entire 40% of the population doesn't even vote, in the Presidential election alone, so that conservatives with good ideas could consistently win. But nah, $#@! it. Anyone who participates in the political process is insane. Tell me man: why are you still wasting your time, 49,000 posts later, when you have been so ineffectual?

You mention the "objective goodness" about something, all the while supporting a man who is not objectively good, especially as it relates to the Presidency. You guys just don't understand that you're supporting socialism, however light it may seem, by supporting Donald Trump.

Let me remind you of something. This is Ron Paul Forums. We have high standards for statesmen to be men of honor, principled consistency, and respect for God-given rights, even when confronted with the temptation to assume more power when it's politically convenient. We don't believe in voting for the lesser of two evils because you're still voting for evil. The more you compromise by voting for the lesser of two evils, the more you compromise on principles such as free markets, sound money, true federalism in separation of powers, respect for privacy and property, and a host of other values that preclude the possibility that a central government ever has the justification to violate or hinder those things.

If you want to shill for Donald Trump, then go to another forum, like Hannity Forums, Glenn Beck Forums, or wherever else they support any and every thing with an "R" next to it, even if it's socialism. But I'm not going to apologize for expecting our public officials to operate within the confines of their oaths of office, by obeying the U.S. Constitution, at the very least. We've settled for less for far too long, and look where it has gotten us.

Blame yourselves for voting the same way multiple times and expecting different results (as if there aren't alternative choices out there waiting to be heard). That's a form of insanity, and it makes people like you ineffectual to the point where you're now ready to support socialist policies.

[Swordsmyth]

You mention the "objective goodness" about something, all the while supporting a man who is not objectively good, especially as it relates to the Presidency. You guys just don't understand that you're supporting socialism, however light it may seem, by supporting Donald Trump.

Let me remind you of something. This is Ron Paul Forums. We have high standards for statesmen to be men of honor, principled consistency, and respect for God-given rights, even when confronted with the temptation to assume more power when it's politically convenient. We don't believe in voting for the lesser of two evils because you're still voting for evil. The more you compromise by voting for the lesser of two evils, the more you compromise on principles such as free markets, sound money, true federalism in separation of powers, respect for privacy and property, and a host of other values that preclude the possibility that a central government ever has the justification to violate or hinder those things.

If you want to shill for Donald Trump, then go to another forum, like Hannity Forums, Glenn Beck Forums, or wherever else they support any and every thing with an "R" next to it, even if it's socialism. But I'm not going to apologize for expecting our public officials to operate within the confines of their oaths of office, by obeying the U.S. Constitution, at the very least. We've settled for less for far too long, and look where it has gotten us.

Blame yourselves for voting the same way multiple times and expecting different results (as if there aren't alternative choices out there waiting to be heard). That's a form of insanity, and it makes people like you ineffectual to the point where you're now ready to support socialist policies.

Trump is objectively good and is a minimal good rather than a lesser evil.

He is reducing socialism and government in general.

[acptulsa]

The people of Britain had achieved far more liberty than they had in centuries past through incremental change.
They were the freest people in Europe and they and the Founding fathers were proud of that, that's why the Founders took it so hard when the English parliament sought to impose tyranny on them.

You think so, do you? Would Guy Fawkes agree? Which portion of the Magna Carta came before the rest?

Where are they now?

Trump is objectively good and is a minimal good rather than a lesser evil.

He is reducing socialism and government in general.

Objectively? Objectively?! I object to that myth.

Show me numbers that prove there is one less federal employee now than the total from December 2016.

[Theocrat]

Objectively? Objectively?! I object to that myth.

Show me numbers that prove there is one less federal employee now than the total from December 2016.

Oh, don't you know, acptulsa? Trump is playing (S x 0c)(1a + LI) + 5m Chess now...

[acptulsa]

Oh, don't you know, acptulsa? Trump is playing (S x 0c)(1a + LI) + 5m Chess now...

You've got to recruit 18,000 more people into the military to shrink government?

[Theocrat]

You've got to recruit 18,000 more people into the military to shrink government?

Yes, and we have to save capitalism by borrowing ourselves out of debt, too.

[Krugminator2]

Praying away the unemployment and getting help from a churches and non-profits isn't going to stop this tsunami. California, the worlds fifth largest economy, just shutdown.

If the government doesn't unleash the biggest bazooka ever and this doesn't end within a month, the United States as a superpower is done. This is one of the most important times in world history right now.

[phill4paul]

Praying away the unemployment and getting help from a churches and non-profits isn't going to stop this tsunami. California, the worlds fifth largest economy, just shutdown.

If the government doesn't unleash the biggest bazooka ever and this doesn't end within a month, the United States as a superpower is done. This is one of the most important times in world history right now.

It's not gonna end in a month. Schools already saying they will more than likely close indefinitely here in N.C. Many businesses still open have not been hit by the brunt of shipping and recieving problems in the pipeline even now. Hunker down. It's gonna be a loooong summer.

[Krugminator2]

It's not gonna end in a month. Schools already saying they will more than likely close indefinitely here in N.C. Many businesses still open have not been hit by the brunt of shipping and recieving problems in the pipeline even now. Hunker down. It's gonna be a loooong summer.

All of you doomsdayers I laughed at might be right. I never in million years thought the government would literally shutdown the economy. Literally shut it down. Even WWI and WWII stayed open.

[Todd]

Go to 15:20 for the really important take away.

[PAF]

Go to 15:20 for the really important take away.

Thanks @Todd - this should be it’s own thread

[KEEF]

Go to 15:20 for the really important take away.

Thanks Todd. Great video