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Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.
Robert Heinlein
Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler
Groucho Marx
I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.
Linus, from the Peanuts comic
You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith
Alexis de Torqueville
Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it
A Zero Hedge comment
"He's talkin' to his gut like it's a person!!" -me
"dumpster diving isn't professional." - angelatc
"You don't need a medical degree to spot obvious bullshit, that's actually a separate skill." -Scott Adams
"When you are divided, and angry, and controlled, you target those 'different' from you, not those responsible [controllers]" -Q
"Each of us must choose which course of action we should take: education, conventional political action, or even peaceful civil disobedience to bring about necessary changes. But let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul
"Paul said "the wave of the future" is a coalition of anti-authoritarian progressive Democrats and libertarian Republicans in Congress opposed to domestic surveillance, opposed to starting new wars and in favor of ending the so-called War on Drugs."
No, we really don't have to fight back. Tariffs are a cure worse than the disease. Except for the special interests that benefit from them.
If a country retains its own citizens' ability to trade freely (e.g. by not initiating, participating in, or fomenting trade wars), new avenues to prosperity will always present themselves.
Partisan politics, misleading or emotional bill titles, and 4D chess theories are manifestations of the same lie—that the text of the Constitution, the text of legislation, and plain facts do not matter; what matters is what you want to believe. From this comes hypocrisy. And where hypocrisy thrives, virtue recedes. Without virtue, liberty dies. - Justin Amash, March 2018
Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.
Robert Heinlein
Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler
Groucho Marx
I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.
Linus, from the Peanuts comic
You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith
Alexis de Torqueville
Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it
A Zero Hedge comment
Partisan politics, misleading or emotional bill titles, and 4D chess theories are manifestations of the same lie—that the text of the Constitution, the text of legislation, and plain facts do not matter; what matters is what you want to believe. From this comes hypocrisy. And where hypocrisy thrives, virtue recedes. Without virtue, liberty dies. - Justin Amash, March 2018
Chris
"Government ... does not exist of necessity, but rather by virtue of a tragic, almost comical combination of klutzy, opportunistic terrorism against sitting ducks whom it pretends to shelter, plus our childish phobia of responsibility, praying to be exempted from the hard reality of life on life's terms." Wolf DeVoon
"...Make America Great Again. I'm interested in making American FREE again. Then the greatness will come automatically."Ron Paul
Chris
"Government ... does not exist of necessity, but rather by virtue of a tragic, almost comical combination of klutzy, opportunistic terrorism against sitting ducks whom it pretends to shelter, plus our childish phobia of responsibility, praying to be exempted from the hard reality of life on life's terms." Wolf DeVoon
"...Make America Great Again. I'm interested in making American FREE again. Then the greatness will come automatically."Ron Paul
Uhh, no, that's bull$#@!.
I said optimally we would switch to a free market.
But since that is not in the cards, and we have a heavily regulated market, making adjustments to said market may be preferable in some cases.
For example - immigration - If we continue on our current path where we have a big government welfare state and open immigration, we will bring in a buttload of illegal immigrants, 80% of whom want bigger government compared to 42% of the current population who want bigger government. That will result in our country becoming a socialist $#@!hole.
On the other hand, if we restrict immigration, even though restricting immigration in and of itself is not a liberty oriented plank, we will have substantially more liberty on the whole because our country won't have nearly as many socialist voters and welfare users. Obviously the best option would be to get rid of big government, but since that isn't in the cards, what we can do is restrict immigration in the mean time to ward off the horrible results of what big government is giving us now.
If we send all of our manufacturing overseas because of big government, that is not good for our economy in the longrun. If we make some adjustments that will bring back manufacturing, it will give us the ability to be more sustainable and thus give us more liberty on the long run.
There is still a big battle to fight, the goal is that we are in the best position to fight it as possible.
If we just do what you are saying and let all the immigrants in and turn our country into a socialist $#@!hole and gut our manufacturing capability, we will NOT be able to have any semblance of freedom in the future. That I can tell you.
Last edited by dannno; 01-30-2018 at 06:51 PM.
"He's talkin' to his gut like it's a person!!" -me
"dumpster diving isn't professional." - angelatc
"You don't need a medical degree to spot obvious bullshit, that's actually a separate skill." -Scott Adams
"When you are divided, and angry, and controlled, you target those 'different' from you, not those responsible [controllers]" -Q
"Each of us must choose which course of action we should take: education, conventional political action, or even peaceful civil disobedience to bring about necessary changes. But let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul
"Paul said "the wave of the future" is a coalition of anti-authoritarian progressive Democrats and libertarian Republicans in Congress opposed to domestic surveillance, opposed to starting new wars and in favor of ending the so-called War on Drugs."
Protectionist tariffs are bad. Ron Paul knows this. Why doesn't RPF anymore?
Last edited by axiomata; 01-30-2018 at 07:40 PM.
Truth forever on the scaffold, Wrong forever on the throne,--
Yet that scaffold sways the future, and, behind the dim unknown,
Standeth God within the shadow, keeping watch above his own.
Uhm, there has always been a division on this topic on RPF, ever since its origin. Not everybody here is an anarchist. If you look some of the oldest members of this site are pro-tariff. I like free trade in theory, but it simply can't exist when one side has a global fiat currency. In our current environment I am pro-protectionist tariffs and have been since pretty much as long as this site has existed.
Chris
"Government ... does not exist of necessity, but rather by virtue of a tragic, almost comical combination of klutzy, opportunistic terrorism against sitting ducks whom it pretends to shelter, plus our childish phobia of responsibility, praying to be exempted from the hard reality of life on life's terms." Wolf DeVoon
"...Make America Great Again. I'm interested in making American FREE again. Then the greatness will come automatically."Ron Paul
http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...-other-nations
In 2011 only 12% disagreed with removing ALL tariffs. 72% were in favor of unilaterally and unconditionally removing all tarrifs. Now we have maybe a majority cheering increasing tarrifs. In case its been forgotten. Tarriffs are taxes on American consumers.
Last edited by axiomata; 01-30-2018 at 07:47 PM.
Truth forever on the scaffold, Wrong forever on the throne,--
Yet that scaffold sways the future, and, behind the dim unknown,
Standeth God within the shadow, keeping watch above his own.
Didn't you hear, China just announced that they will now move on of their solar plants to the US. That is results you small govt people cannot deny. The result we see is the job and who gives a $#@! about the unseen results of this move.
Govt is good and does bring job and pay to the people. If you cannot be convinced by results then you are suffering from trump derangement syndrome
Pfizer Macht Frei!
Openly Straight Man, Danke, Awarded Top Rated Influencer. Community Standards Enforcer.
Quiz: Test Your "Income" Tax IQ!
Short Income Tax Video
The Income Tax Is An Excise, And Excise Taxes Are Privilege Taxes
The Federalist Papers, No. 15:
Except as to the rule of appointment, the United States have an indefinite discretion to make requisitions for men and money; but they have no authority to raise either by regulations extending to the individual citizens of America.
Pfizer Macht Frei!
Openly Straight Man, Danke, Awarded Top Rated Influencer. Community Standards Enforcer.
Quiz: Test Your "Income" Tax IQ!
Short Income Tax Video
The Income Tax Is An Excise, And Excise Taxes Are Privilege Taxes
The Federalist Papers, No. 15:
Except as to the rule of appointment, the United States have an indefinite discretion to make requisitions for men and money; but they have no authority to raise either by regulations extending to the individual citizens of America.
The applauding seem excessive. Even Jerry Springer doesn't get this much.
Tame the challenge. Sorry democrats.
Truth forever on the scaffold, Wrong forever on the throne,--
Yet that scaffold sways the future, and, behind the dim unknown,
Standeth God within the shadow, keeping watch above his own.
Not with that attitude, we should never give up on freedom, it's not free but we are selling ourselves short here. We don't live in Russia where you don't have any options. We aren't there yet but with that attitude we will soon be given the same choice, dictator or chaos. I for one say no, I will always presume freedom, freedom is only gone when we give up on the idea of the good.
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