I'm glad Dave Ramsey helped you. I wouldn't recommend him to anyone in this forum. He called Peter Schiff an idiot and called Schiff's financial advice ludicrous.Originally Posted by mosquitobite
http://lewrockwell.com/north/north1030.html
You guys keep leaving out state income tax, which is 6% in my state. We're actually looking into moving to a state with no income tax.
To the guy who suggested getting a house for a mortgage deduction, we hate debt, and want nothing more than student loans. When those are paid off, we are not getting into debt again. Besides, the 1k a month we pay for rent is far cheaper than the mortgages on the 400k+ houses in this part of town. To find cheaper rent or houses requires us to move so far away from work that we can't walk and bike to work anymore. We'd end up paying more in gas, car expenses and stress from traffic.
I am intelligent enough to know about itemized deductions. If we went this route it would have saved us a thousand dollars or so. Big deal. Did not want to itemize for $1k in savings because most IRS audits are geared to those who itemize. In short, I do not want to risk the headaches for $1k in savings. If it were significantly more than that, then of course I'd itemize.
The student loans are well over six figures. In the line of work one of us is in, most students graduate with over 150k in loans, lots of them over 200k or 300k. We personally know coworkers who owe more than 300k. You would be shocked at what kind of debt people are graduating with these days. If you go to a public university, you are fine. However, if you go to a private university as an undergrad, or a choose to go to any graduate school to pursue higher level education, chances are that you are graduating with tons of debt. I made a poll last year here on RPF, asking how much debt people had. Even people on this forum had over 300k in debt.
[edit] to the person who brought up Obama's loan repayment program that is based on income, it is a scam. Those programs do limit the monthly payment, but they are stretched out over 25 years. If we went this route and had remaining debt forgiven at 25 years, we still would have paid almost as much as if we just hurried up and paid the loans off in 10 years or less. Besides, we want to pay back the full amount since the government stole the money from other tax payers; and we want to pay it back ASAP because we don't want to be in debt for 25 years.
Last edited by Aden; 02-23-2012 at 04:41 PM.
This thread is so full of crap it's not even funny. If you guys make 100K a year, barely drive your cars and bike to work, never go out to eat, never go to entertainment shows/movies, don't have cell phones, cable or internet, never actually buy furniture, and haven't been on vacation in years...then I question absolutely everything you're saying.
Is it possible for people making 100K a year and barely being able to save money? Absolutely. If you have 2 car payments, a nice apartment, and student loans...sure it's likely you're not banking as much as you'd think. But if you're saying you never buy anything else except for food and you're strapped for cash then you're just plain ole lying and stretching the truth. You made the decision to go to college and put yourself in debt in 150-200K in debt. You made the decision to get a nicer apartment, one that it sounds like you can't afford. Sounds to me like you're just whining about paying 30% in taxes.
Your family is living below the poverty level and you're acting like your jealous of them. Get a 2nd job to pay for your loans, or start a side web business if you need more money. Don't blame the government.
Last edited by Combs84; 02-23-2012 at 04:46 PM.
I am. Glad you got the point of this thread.Sounds to me like you're just whining about paying 30% in taxes.
It's impossible not to when pretty much everything can be made better by making governments smaller.Don't blame the government.
Combs84 is the new Resident Doucher. Onlyrp has officially been supplanted.
Doucherz 4 lyfe, bitchezzz.
The IRS focuses on returns with a low effective tax rate, not just itemized deductions. They know there is no point in going after people who already pay a high rate. I would suggest taking all the deductions you can. Also limiting your church/charitable giving to what you can deduct, and taking that deduction.
The banksters want their something-for-nothing. You are paying for it by getting nothing for something (your skilled labor). Simple.The student loans are well over six figures. In the line of work one of us is in, most students graduate with over 150k in loans, lots of them over 200k or 300k. We personally know coworkers who owe more than 300k. You would be shocked at what kind of debt people are graduating with these days. If you go to a public university, you are fine. However, if you go to a private university as an undergrad, or a choose to go to any graduate school to pursue higher level education, chances are that you are graduating with tons of debt. I made a poll last year here on RPF, asking how much debt people had. Even people on this forum had over 300k in debt.
Why not?
A lot of commenters seem to be missing the bigger point here. Even if it is not quite literally true that OP is worse off than those who make $20K, it is still ludicrous that it is even close. There's not a whole lot of incentive to 'move up', work hard and make a decent middle class income, if your real gains are partly eaten up by taxes and partly nonexistent because the government would have given you all that stuff for free anyway. I mean, suppose you make the case that OP is actually $10K per year better off (in some sense), rather than worse off, compared to those with a $20K income... that still means that the vast majority of the gains are completely eaten by government.
welcome to land of the free home of the brave? Its almost better to own nothing at all now as long as you got a roof and food.
Did your relatives have student loans? It appears that you invested in your future earning potential, and did not make out very well.
Frankly, I live quite well on way below what you are taking in, but that also has to do with geography. I also think that folks who believe it's dandy and easy to make it on very little have not actually been there. Some folks have no scruples, and will be happy to live off of the Government. It sounds like your family members do have jobs. The wives are not working... who would pay for daycare/a sitter? At a certain income level, it really does not pay to get a "second income" that only serves to pay for itself.
Do taxes suck? Absolutely. Is it all the evil Government's fault that the OP feels they live less comfortably than someone making $20k? Absolutely not.
You're complaining about an additional 6% of your income, while you "cheerfully" donate 10% to charity? Did you even write it off as a deduction?
Exactly. While I love to get free food stamps and free medical care, I am not that jealous they get it and I don't. Because the only harm done would be IF they fully used it and I fully did, while having to pay when I do. That's not the case, I don't use medical care (doomed if an emergency happens, but until then I'm saving that cost to take risk). They can try to sell their food stamps for cash, but they can't do that with medical services, as somebody mentioned above (I didn't even know), medical bills can be tax deductible, also, most jobs that pay above 50K have a benefits plan, don't they (assuming it's a salaried job, and not 1099)?
Last and most important difference is WHERE the poor people live, would you trade where you live to live where they are? If not, don't say they live better than you.
Dave Ramsey is good for people who need to learn being debt free. Which is common sense for any Peter Schiff or Ron Paul fan. I wouldn't trust him for savings or investment advice though.
Buying a house with the intention of saving taxes is silly, it's not a way to save money, especially if you hate debt.
Looks like you made some good choices, that's good. So, let's get some more numbers on the table.When those are paid off, we are not getting into debt again. Besides, the 1k a month we pay for rent is far cheaper than the mortgages on the 400k+ houses in this part of town. To find cheaper rent or houses requires us to move so far away from work that we can't walk and bike to work anymore. We'd end up paying more in gas, car expenses and stress from traffic.
Forgive me for still not buying your story of "people making 20,000 live better than me".
Take 2011 for example, tell us, how much did you make gross, and tell us what your expenses were, and how much, IF ANY did you end up putting into savings?
$1,000 in net savings of taxes? Or a $1000 deduction from your income?I am intelligent enough to know about itemized deductions. If we went this route it would have saved us a thousand dollars or so. Big deal. Did not want to itemize for $1k in savings because most IRS audits are geared to those who itemize. In short, I do not want to risk the headaches for $1k in savings. If it were significantly more than that, then of course I'd itemize.
If the former, that's your wife's laptop you're talking about, keep complaining.
Surprise surprise! I bet your $20,000 relatives didn't get such a luxury.The student loans are well over six figures.
No, we'd be shock of how little some manage to graduate with.In the line of work one of us is in, most students graduate with over 150k in loans, lots of them over 200k or 300k. We personally know coworkers who owe more than 300k. You would be shocked at what kind of debt people are graduating with these days.
Nobody was born smart, but some learn. It's the choices you make.If you go to a public university, you are fine. However, if you go to a private university as an undergrad, or a choose to go to any graduate school to pursue higher level education, chances are that you are graduating with tons of debt. I made a poll last year here on RPF, asking how much debt people had. Even people on this forum had over 300k in debt.
Yes, I am with you there, just pay it off ASAP. And look at all the luxuries you HAD and continue to have that your $20,000 relatives didn't and don't. They are NOT better off than you. Please tell me what I am missing.[edit] to the person who brought up Obama's loan repayment program that is based on income, it is a scam. Those programs do limit the monthly payment, but they are stretched out over 25 years. If we went this route and had remaining debt forgiven at 25 years, we still would have paid almost as much as if we just hurried up and paid the loans off in 10 years or less. Besides, we want to pay back the full amount since the government stole the money from other tax payers; and we want to pay it back ASAP because we don't want to be in debt for 25 years.
He's jealous they don't have debt and get to eat out, and maybe they bought a new laptop he "can't afford" because he gives 10% of his paycheck to charity "cheerfully". and then says he doesn't want to risk getting audited so doesn't deduct them.....short of the government untaxing him or bailing out his student loans, doesn't sound like he'll ever be happy.
30% taxes is not compared to zero. It's compared to 10-15%.
Even people who get EITC or housing subsidies, have to have kids to effectively come close to tax free, yeah, they might actually be tax free and get some free cash, but hardly puts them above you in net.
because he's not even doing what he's allowed to do, such as itemize his donations. Therefore he is not "otherwise perfect" to be in the position to blame somebody else when he's not done his part fully. And in the end, if he can, he's more than free to surrender his high paying job if he's so convinced he's better off being paid less.
Except even that is not true.
Until he lists all the numbers, I am not buying his story. If he story is true, that he's working extra for nothing and better off making less, he can use the math to his advantage, and purposefully make less, we'll see how he likes it (He won't, because it's BS).
He is far more than $10,000 per year better off, considering his donations to charity and student loans. He probably pays more in debt + donations per year than all his relatives make ($20,000 per year) in a year, so there is no comparison.
The myth of "I want to make less, or donate my money away, so I can save on taxes" should go by now, I challenge somebody to prove it.
Who is that John Galt?
My friend calls Whole Foods "Whole Paycheck" hahahahah because its so expensive.
150k in debt for a 100k a year income was your choice.
just like when you were going to school, your still getting ready for your future. Sorry dude.
not inaccurate at all
yeah, seriously.
I think he meant $100K for combined 2 people, but still.
Even $50K a year with $150K student debt is reasonable.
Both people made different decisions on what to do with their money. Who may or may not be better off may depend on who you ask. Some are fine with not a lot of money- others feel they need more than they have- even if that is already more than most people (and $100k is certainly more than over half the people in the country).
the point here is that incentives are being stripped away from our society. the healthcare aspect is a big part of this. essentially one family is earning 500% of what the other family is earning, yet their lifestyles are perceptibly comparable. this is hardly the only example of the problem. even if OP budgeted in accordance with the "advice" given in this thread, the problem isn't solved, its only a little less obvious. take a guess at what happens to societies that have shrinking incentives to accumulate wealth?
Production drops and everybody suffers.
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Perceptibly comparable? If you ignore 2 kids, donating 10% to charity, not itemizing them in taxes, and 6 figure student debt, then yeah. He has plenty of incentives to accummulate wealth, and if he doesn't, he's free to take a pay cut.
With him calling Schiff a nutjob, I certainly wouldn't patronize him or give him a nickel
Can you refinance the student loans to a longer payback period? This would give you some cushion during which time you could hopefully save off and pay them off in total in 10 years. (I have only read page one of the thread and apologize in advance if someone already suggested this).
"Your mother's dead, before long I'll be dead, and you...and your brother and your sister and all of her children, all of us dead, all of us..rotting in the ground. It's the family name that lives on. It's all that lives on. Not your personal glory, not your honor, but family." - Tywin Lannister
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