Trump Asserts He Can Force U.S. Companies to Leave China

[TheCount]

You just expose your deceit and ignorance.

Are you a professional projectionist or just an amateur?

[Swordsmyth]

Maybe you have me mistaken for that straw man of me you keep building?



Ok, let’s try this strategy again. Give me a number. A discrete quantity. How many times will I have to repeat that the idea of “setting examples” has never crossed my weird little mind?

ten? Fifteen? If you just give me a hard number this time I will copy/paste the statement that many times in a single post so that I don’t have to keep smelling that monkey poop.

What makes you think you can just blatantly deny what you said that everyone can read?

Originally Posted by GunnyFreedom

The Constitution already has most of the restrictions and limitations we could possibly need, and they are completely ignored. At this point, until we can start fostering a culture of Constitutionalism, changing the text will have no effect.

You have to have a government that actually obeys the Constitution, before changing the text of the Constitution will change the behavior of that government.

And then you repeat it again in the same post that you deny it in:

The way to end disobedience to the the Constitution, is to start obeying it. Not to disobey it harder.

[Swordsmyth]

Are you a professional projectionist or just an amateur?

[GunnyFreedom]

Wouldn’t simply repealing “most favored nation” and demoting them to “normal trading nation” have accomplished basically all of this - including tariff equality - without making America look like a crybaby snowflake?

[GunnyFreedom]

What makes you think you can just blatantly deny what you said that everyone can read?

And then you repeat it again in the same post that you deny it in:

And out of what fetid $#@! are you prying any concept of “setting examples” from in any of that?

[GunnyFreedom]

So does that mean the answer is “no?” You won’t stop accusing me of bull$#@! like as if my plan to save America was
koom bai ya set an example?

[Swordsmyth]

And out of what fetid $#@! are you prying any concept of “setting examples” from in any of that?

Your solution is to follow the Constitution and somehow that example is supposed to make everyone else follow it.
They are violating it now and they won't stop just because one President doesn't use the power but you claim that we don't need to change the law or clarify the Constitution and somehow they will magically stop just because we don't use the delegated powers.

[Swordsmyth]

So does that mean the answer is “no?” You won’t stop accusing me of bull$#@! like as if my plan to save America was
koom bai ya set an example?

Explain the difference.
What are you saying we should do other than set an example?

[Pauls' Revere]

This is the current reality of our system.
The only way to change this is to change the law and amend the Constitution.

to add to the mix, we can say what is the "true" intent of this? Heck, "truth" can be argued ad nauseu as can "intent". It should be listed for only specific circumstances. Not something like "National Emergency" whatever that means nowadays.

[GunnyFreedom]

Your solution is to follow the Constitution

yes...

and somehow that example is supposed to make everyone else follow it.

this is all a construction of your bizarre fantasy

They are violating it now and they won't stop just because one President doesn't use the power

they are violating it now, and the way to stop that is to start obeying it.

The fundamental solution to Constitutional disobedience, is Constitutional obedience. The challenge is getting from A to B, but as a basic concept I do not understand why this is up for dispute.

but you claim that we don't need to change the law or clarify the Constitution and somehow they will magically stop just because we don't use the delegated powers.

I have never made any such nonsense claim that our failure to boss Apple out of China will trigger Pelosi to stop taking guns.

If we refuse to boss Apple out of China, that means the Constitution will not have been pissed on to boss Apple out of China. Full stop.

[Pauls' Revere]

The Constitution already has most of the restrictions and limitations we could possibly need, and they are completely ignored. At this point, until we can start fostering a culture of Constitutionalism, changing the text will have no effect.

You have to have a government that actually obeys the Constitution, before changing the text of the Constitution will change the behavior of that government.

Yeah, I concur. So, how can we get both done? Consequences for non-adherence? We have an impeachment process,...there's that. But we know how hard that is to get done. Two years of Mueller investigations proved little.

[Pauls' Revere]

See post 278

LOL yeah read that. They also said I have rights.

[GunnyFreedom]

If we DO piss on the Constitution to boss Apple out of China, however, don’t be shocked in 15 years when President Michelle Obama pisses on the Constitution to boss gun makers out of America.

[Swordsmyth]

yes...



this is all a construction of your bizarre fantasy



they are violating it now, and the way to stop that is to start obeying it.

The fundamental solution to Constitutional disobedience, is Constitutional obedience. The challenge is getting from A to B, but as a basic concept I do not understand why this is up for dispute.



I have never made any such nonsense claim that our failure to boss Apple out of China will trigger Pelosi to stop taking guns.

If we refuse to boss Apple out of China, that means the Constitution will not have been pissed on to boss Apple out of China. Full stop.

I see now, you are saying that if only people who won't follow the Constitution would follow it then everyone would follow it.
Since we don't control those people your plan amounts to allowing them to not follow the Constitution because we only control ourselves.
What use then is a Constitution?
My plan is to change the law and the Constitution so they can't violate it while pretending that they aren't, that will cause them to stop violating it or start a civil war in which we can be rid of them.
But you keep denigrating my plan and recommending that we should just allow them to violate the Constitution.

[Swordsmyth]

If we DO piss on the Constitution to boss Apple out of China, however, don’t be shocked in 15 years when President Michelle Obama pisses on the Constitution to boss gun makers out of America.

Congress has not given the President that power.
And my solution would prevent that while yours would not.
If they are going to try that they will try it no matter what we do.

[Pauls' Revere]

If we DO piss on the Constitution to boss Apple out of China, however, don’t be shocked in 15 years when President Michelle Obama pisses on the Constitution to boss gun makers out of America.

Sigh,...we better amend this thing and fast.

[Swordsmyth]

Maybe you have me mistaken for that straw man of me you keep building?



Ok, let’s try this strategy again. Give me a number. A discrete quantity. How many times will I have to repeat that the idea of “setting examples” has never crossed my weird little mind?

ten? Fifteen? If you just give me a hard number this time I will copy/paste the statement that many times in a single post so that I don’t have to keep smelling that monkey poop.



Described by US Law as a “most favored nation” for international trade. You believe they are enemy, I believe they are an adversary, maybe Steven Steeleman believes China will bless the planet. All Steven Steeleman has to go on is the law.

That’s why these laws are given to CONGRESS. So Americans know how to operate and don’t have their universe changed weekly by the arbitrary words of a despot.




if it is unconstitutional, then exercising it is illegal. The Constitution, and not Acts of Congress, is the Supreme Law of the Land.



”traitors.”

because every President since Nixon BEGGED companies to trade with China. And so they did. Now they are “traitors.”

what laws are these “traitors” breaking?



The way to end disobedience to the the Constitution, is to start obeying it. Not to disobey it harder.

The companies are getting off easy because of the factors you discuss, they are not being charged with treason ex post facto.
But it would not be different in any significant way if Congress held a vote to declare China an enemy and use its power to regulate international commerce to order all US companies to cease doing business in or with China.

Congress is the only victim here and they did the damage to themselves.

[devil21]

So now, because I’m saying there is a war on, and what you are doing isn’t working; I am a Chinese Communist propagandist.

Would you agree that that that is accurate? Your actual position here, is that I, Glen Bradley, am a Chinese Communist Propagandist

that is what you Swordsmyth believe it is your duty to do, in your war against bad ideas, is expose me, as a Chinese Communist propagandist, because I am warning you that we are at war with China, and what you are doing isn’t working.

Do I, have that about right?.

What sWordSmyth doesn't get or acknowledge is that our own leaders are working hand-in-hand with the Chinese and have been since Kissinger and Nixon went over there to initiate the whole China trade/Treasury dollar recycling system in the 70's. The same system that the proteges of Kissinger and Nixon are now feigning as a "war against China", for the low-info types in Trump's base, while in reality they are facilitating the end game that was promised when that game was started.

The Peoples Bank of China is a western style Rothschild bank, pumping out fiat funny money. That's all ya need to know to understand that this "trade war" is all a production for the ignorant masses.

[Swordsmyth]

What sWordSmyth doesn't get or acknowledge is that our own leaders are working hand-in-hand with the Chinese and have been since Kissinger and Nixon went over there to initiate the whole China trade/Treasury dollar recycling system in the 70's. The same system that the proteges of Kissinger and Nixon are now feigning as a "war against China", for the low-info types in Trump's base, while in reality they are facilitating the end game that was promised when that game was started.

The Peoples Bank of China is a western style Rothschild bank, pumping out fiat funny money. That's all ya need to know to understand that this "trade war" is all a production for the ignorant masses.

Our leaders did betray us to China, they are still attempting to and trying to stop Trump from foiling them.

[GunnyFreedom]

Yeah, I concur. So, how can we get both done? Consequences for non-adherence? We have an impeachment process,...there's that. But we know how hard that is to get done. Two years of Mueller investigations proved little.

Well, it starts by going further than just electing people like Massey. We have to also stakehorse their club and caucus dues, leadership bids, and political funds. Just getting them to Congress is step 1. They also need to be elevated. That, I am sad to say, is a cash transaction and most liberty people who get elected just aren’t going to play those stupid games with donor money. But building political capital is how you start building coalitions and drawing more like minded people in.

If we could reliably bundle Massey an additional $750k per election and Rand $1.25M per election that they both knew could just be blown on political funds without jerking anyone’s britches into a knot their coalitions will double in a single session, and triple in two.

Little known secret, if you pay the cover fee to get into their little clubs they don’t works so hard to get revenge. Their cash beast is way way way way more important to them than your stupid vote on a pot bill.

So that’s one path that requires a lot of money and patience. Let me tell you that one Congressman donating $10k to another Congressman even if they are a retard, the retard will have their back when they need it. Having an actual political budget will completely change the climate for people like Massie and start to actually get his bills heard.

There are more ways than “dump a ton of money” but it we could manage it that one would start paying off really fast. Just a couple plumb committees and a couple bills heard will start moving the agenda, and it’s the nature of those kinds of creatures to grow. This would be the easiest and least complicated path. With enough hard cash we could have a plurality in Congress in 12 years. By then a reform agenda will already be well in hand.

[devil21]

Our leaders did betray us to China, they are still attempting to and trying to stop Trump from foiling them.

If you really, truly believe that then other things start to make more sense.

[GunnyFreedom]

I see now, you are saying that if only people who won't follow the Constitution would follow it then everyone would follow it.

No, I’m saying the only way to have a government that actually obeys the Constitution, would be for the government to start obeying the Constitution. Therefore agitating politically for the government to disobey the Constitution is contrary to my goal of advocating for Constitutional government. Thus when you made the claim that Trump needs to exercise this power to boss free market companies around like pawns, I stated that you were wrong and that the exercise of this unconstitutional power will only make the underlying problems worse over time.

Since we don't control those people your plan amounts to allowing them to not follow the Constitution because we only control ourselves.
What use then is a Constitution?

the Constitution is the Supreme Law of the Land. If we obeyed it, then almost none of these crises would exist. We have to demonstrate that Constitutional government creates superior outcomes for everyone involved. That starts by elevating Congressmen like Massey so that he can start producing those Acts that will feed those demonstrations, whereupon the process becomes at least nominally self supporting.

My plan is to change the law and the Constitution so they can't violate it while pretending that they aren't, that will cause them to stop violating it or start a civil war in which we can be rid of them.

meanwhile, private free market companies are getting bossed around like pawns in a stupid game.

But you keep denigrating my plan

is that why you are so pissed off at me and trying to paint me like I was a purveyor of Chinese Communist Propaganda? Because I think your plan won’t work? Wow

and recommending that we should just allow them to violate the Constitution.

I think it’s pretty clear that the entire course of this debate has been you arguing in favor of violating the Constitution and me arguing in favor of obeying it.

[GunnyFreedom]

Most of the Constitutional violations are based on ambiguities in the text that allow the enemy to pretend that their actions are Constitutional even if that claim is weak, eliminating the ambiguities would take that away and they would be forced to either admit they are ignoring the Constitution or abide by it, either would be an improvement.

I disagree. It’s not ambiguous that there is no delegated authority to pursue a war on drugs. It is not ambiguous that there is no authority to control health care, food, drugs, education. There’s no ambiguity at all for any of that.

Our failure to obey the Constitution has nothing whatsoever to do with ambiguities, but because we elevate people to power who have no respect for it whatever.

[phill4paul]

Welcome back, @GunnyFreedom. I've missed ya here.

[Swordsmyth]

No, I’m saying the only way to have a government that actually obeys the Constitution, would be for the government to start obeying the Constitution.

I see now, you are saying that if only people who won't follow the Constitution would follow it then everyone would follow it.

Therefore agitating politically for the government to disobey the Constitution is contrary to my goal of advocating for Constitutional government. Thus when you made the claim that Trump needs to exercise this power to boss free market companies around like pawns, I stated that you were wrong and that the exercise of this unconstitutional power will only make the underlying problems worse over time.

I keep saying we should change the laws so neither Trump nor anyone else can use the delegated powers and that he should sign such a bill.
What he should do until that is done is an entirely different question.

the Constitution is the Supreme Law of the Land. If we obeyed it, then almost none of these crises would exist. We have to demonstrate that Constitutional government creates superior outcomes for everyone involved. That starts by elevating Congressmen like Massey so that he can start producing those Acts that will feed those demonstrations, whereupon the process becomes at least nominally self supporting.

That's good, it kinda sounds like my plan to change the laws that you keep saying won't work.
I guess you are one of those people who only says something will work if they get to take credit for it.

meanwhile, private free market companies are getting bossed around like pawns in a stupid game.

Nothing different is happening to them than would happen if Congress did what Trump is doing with its Constitutional power to regulate foreign commerce.

is that why you are so pissed off at me and trying to paint me like I was a purveyor of Chinese Communist Propaganda? Because I think your plan won’t work? Wow

I said you were repeating ChiCom propaganda from whatever source you got it from because it was ChiCom propaganda.
Your irrationality about claiming my idea won't work even though you suggest basically the same thing or suggest that doing nothing to change the current law is totally separate.

I think it’s pretty clear that the entire course of this debate has been you arguing in favor of violating the Constitution and me arguing in favor of obeying it.

That is an incomplete description, I advocate making everyone obey the Constitution and using whatever powers we have to protect and restore America until we succeed and you advocate letting the other side break the Constitution while refusing to use the same powers to protect and restore America that use to destroy it.

[Swordsmyth]

I disagree. It’s not ambiguous that there is no delegated authority to pursue a war on drugs. It is not ambiguous that there is no authority to control health care, food, drugs, education. There’s no ambiguity at all for any of that.

Our failure to obey the Constitution has nothing whatsoever to do with ambiguities, but because we elevate people to power who have no respect for it whatever.

The Commerce clause is a giant ambiguity that is used to justify those and there are others that are used as well, you need to acquaint yourself with the legal arguments used to justify the current situation to better end it and keep it from recurring.

[GunnyFreedom]

I see now, you are saying that if only people who won't follow the Constitution would follow it then everyone would follow it.

you seem to have a repetition problem. Is that some kind of tic, like Tourette’s?

I keep saying we should change the laws so neither Trump nor anyone else can use the delegated powers and that he should sign such a bill.

Any Act of Congress that is not pursuant to the text of the US Constitution is not the Supreme Law of the Land, it is therefore unconstitutional and thus null and void. Every holder of public office has an obligation on account of their Oath of Office to comply with the Constitution before any given Act of Congress.

What he should do until that is done is an entirely different question.

He swore an Oath to uphold and defend the Constitution, so he should probably uphold and defend the Constitution.

That's good, it kinda sounds like my plan to change the laws that you keep saying won't work.
I guess you are one of those people who only says something will work if they get to take credit for it.

If our plans are so identical then why did you try to paint me like a Chinese Propagandist? I don’t think you are being honest here.

Nothing different is happening to them than would happen if Congress did what Trump is doing with its Constitutional power to regulate foreign commerce.

so..... because Congress MIGHT have done something LIKE that therefore it’s okay for the President to legislate?

I said you were repeating ChiCom propaganda from whatever source you got it from because it was ChiCom propaganda.

so you are still calling me a Chinese Spy. Good to know.

Your irrationality about claiming my idea won't work even though you suggest basically the same thing or suggest that doing nothing to change the current law is totally separate.

So you ARE salty because I your said plan to disobey the Constitution will not solve the problem of Constitutional disobedience. lol

That is an incomplete description, I advocate making everyone obey the Constitution and using whatever

Unconstitutional

powers we have to protect and restore America until we succeed and you advocate letting the other side break the Constitution while refusing to use the same powers to protect and restore America that use to destroy it.

Violating the Constitution will neither protect nor restore America. It will tear a bloody gash in America that our enemies will use to dismember us.

[GunnyFreedom]

The Commerce clause is a giant ambiguity that is used to justify those and there are others that are used as well, you need to acquaint yourself with the legal arguments used to justify the current situation to better end it and keep it from recurring.

Min what universe is the power to regulate trade between the States so ambiguous as to possibly mean kill a man in his own home for growing a plant?

[GunnyFreedom]

lol no. The Constitution is not being shat on because it’s vague. It’s not vague, it’s being utterly ignored.

[Swordsmyth]

you seem to have a repetition problem. Is that some kind of tic, like Tourette’s?

That's funny since the reason I have to repeat myself is that you keep repeating yourself.

Any Act of Congress that is not pursuant to the text of the US Constitution is not the Supreme Law of the Land, it is therefore unconstitutional and thus null and void. Every holder of public office has an obligation on account of their Oath of Office to comply with the Constitution before any given Act of Congress.

The magic document has failed to enforce itself, we must do something to enforce it.

If our plans are so identical then why did you try to paint me like a Chinese Propagandist? I don’t think you are being honest here.

I never did that and the time I said you were repeating ChiCom propaganda had nothing to do with the idea of using Congress to solve the problem.

so..... because Congress MIGHT have done something LIKE that therefore it’s okay for the President to legislate?

That's not what I said, Congress has delegated its power and failed to use it, the President has used the power delegated to him, whether that is unconstitutional or not doesn't make the companies any more the victim, they are still being regulated in their foreign commerce dealings by the government either way, Congress as the rightful holder of the power to regulate foreign commerce is the only victim and it is a self inflicted wound.

so you are still calling me a Chinese Spy. Good to know.

Don't be retarded, if I quote the bible and someone says I am repeating the words of the prophets that doesn't mean they are calling me a prophet.
I never even said you got the ChiCom propaganda from the ChiComs, you probably got it from an individual who got it from the MSM who got it from the ChiComs but it is still ChiCom propaganda.

So you ARE salty because I your said plan to disobey the Constitution will not solve the problem of Constitutional disobedience. lol

I am not especially salty and it is because you said my plan to repeal the unconstitutional laws and amend the Constitution wouldn't work when it is the only thing that will.

Violating the Constitution will neither protect nor restore America. It will tear a bloody gash in America that our enemies will use to dismember us.

You sound exactly like a pacifist insisting that violence only begets more violence and that the only way to achieve peace is to lie down and surrender.
The bloody gash has already been torn and is already being used to dismember us, I recommend sewing it up and you tell me that is useless and when I point out that it can be used to protect us from a foreign enemy that is destroying us just as surely as our internal enemies are until we do sew it up you just deny it with platitudes while refusing to debate the facts.


I have lost count of how many time you have blatantly misrepresented my positions and statements or deliberately confused the points under discussion.