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Thread: protonmail is not private

  1. #1

    protonmail is not private

    I signed up for a free account at protonmail; easy sign up and advertised as Swiss based private.
    Used it yesterday to request some fan packs, and after sending 6 emails my account was frozen for 48 hours because of spam

    first-how is 6 emails spam? and more importantly how would they know it was spam if its encrypted from sender to receiver as they claim?

    I just had to sign up for another email provider (mail.com) and they are fine.

    this never happened even with gmail or yahoo



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  3. #2
    Looks like you did a lot of research on these guys.

  4. #3
    Hey - wanted to clarify a point regarding email encryption.

    There is a reason why encrypting email is such an elusive concept. It's because the infrastructure doesn't really exist. To my knowledge, pretty much all encryption today uses PKI (public key infrastructure), which uses asymmetric encryption (requiring two keys). One key is public which can be given out to everyone. The public key must exist, and must be used for the encryption. That public key has a corresponding private key (which must be kept private) as it's used for decryption.

    If not everyone is onboard (and they aren't), then you can't encrypt email effectively, because not everyone has their own public & private keys with them. I'm skeptical that you sent to addresses that were set up to receive encrypted emails .. so they would have had to have been plain text.

    Anyways, takeaways:
    1) Yes, by default, email is not a secure method of communication. It's like sending a postcard through USPS. That will usually traverse the internet in general, hitting any number of handlers along the way.
    2) Email encryption is a big pain in the neck because of required infrastructure and configuration. I don't even know all that much about it because it just doesn't seem worth it.
    3) The best analogy I have for "PKI" encryption is like sending someone a lockbox, but keeping the key yourself. Someone can get/use the lockbox (encryption) perfectly fine, they put their object in it and close it (lock it). They have to send it back to you, and only you can open it because you keep the key.

  5. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by 106459 View Post
    Hey - wanted to clarify a point regarding email encryption.

    There is a reason why encrypting email is such an elusive concept. It's because the infrastructure doesn't really exist. To my knowledge, pretty much all encryption today uses PKI (public key infrastructure), which uses asymmetric encryption (requiring two keys). One key is public which can be given out to everyone. The public key must exist, and must be used for the encryption. That public key has a corresponding private key (which must be kept private) as it's used for decryption.

    If not everyone is onboard (and they aren't), then you can't encrypt email effectively, because not everyone has their own public & private keys with them. I'm skeptical that you sent to addresses that were set up to receive encrypted emails .. so they would have had to have been plain text.

    Anyways, takeaways:
    1) Yes, by default, email is not a secure method of communication. It's like sending a postcard through USPS. That will usually traverse the internet in general, hitting any number of handlers along the way.
    2) Email encryption is a big pain in the neck because of required infrastructure and configuration. I don't even know all that much about it because it just doesn't seem worth it.
    3) The best analogy I have for "PKI" encryption is like sending someone a lockbox, but keeping the key yourself. Someone can get/use the lockbox (encryption) perfectly fine, they put their object in it and close it (lock it). They have to send it back to you, and only you can open it because you keep the key.
    I use protonmail and that's the way I understand it, too. I like it and have never had a problem with it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Paul View Post
    The intellectual battle for liberty can appear to be a lonely one at times. However, the numbers are not as important as the principles that we hold. Leonard Read always taught that "it's not a numbers game, but an ideological game." That's why it's important to continue to provide a principled philosophy as to what the role of government ought to be, despite the numbers that stare us in the face.
    Quote Originally Posted by Origanalist View Post
    This intellectually stimulating conversation is the reason I keep coming here.

  6. #5
    Thinking for two seconds on this...

    There are TWO types of Email: Web Based and Client Based.

    I do NOT think that Web Based email such as Gmail or Yahoo can ever be fully private from those companies. What happens is the contents of the message are sent to their servers via HTTPS so connection between you and the server is secure, but it is NOT secure from the server itself, where the encrption of the MESSAGE takes place. Thus, the contents can be scanned. Same thing for receiving web based email.

    I DO think that Client Based Email, such as Mozilla Thunderbird DO have the ability to fully encrypt and digitally sign email messages, so no man in the middle attacks are ordinarily possible. Trouble is as @106459 pointed out, asymmetric encryption keys. There are two keys required for digital signing of encrypted email. An encryption key, and a decryption key. Getting the decryption key securely to the recipient allows for interception, thus, anyone with that decryption key can read your email. Also, sending from Thunderbird to Gmail, Gmail again gets to read the contents of your message. Why? Because their advertising revenue is more important than your privacy.
    1776 > 1984

    The FAILURE of the United States Government to operate and maintain an
    Honest Money System , which frees the ordinary man from the clutches of the money manipulators, is the single largest contributing factor to the World's current Economic Crisis.

    The Elimination of Privacy is the Architecture of Genocide

    Belief, Money, and Violence are the three ways all people are controlled

    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    Our central bank is not privately owned.

  7. #6
    I didn't even use this email for privacy, but because they had an easy no cell number required sign up. was just using it to request fan pack. have to use a different email every year . but just sending 6 emails should no way be considered spam.



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