Trump Meeting with John Allison: Wants to abolish Federal Reserve and return to Gold Standard

[Zippyjuan]

Page not loading for me but how many times has the dollar failed? The British Pound? The Euro? The Chinese yuan? What do they consider "failed"? (finally loaded- they even count the currencies which decided to join the Euro as "failed"). Others counted as "failed" include countries absorbed by others due to war/ conquest (which is not a failure of the currency). Those were political or military- not money- failures.

(30%) 184 ended monetary unions, dissolution or other reforms, such as the creation of the Euro in 1999 (and its physical use since 2002);
(15%) 94 ended through acts of independence (former colonial states renaming or issuing new currency);
(27%) 156 were destroyed by hyper-inflation (caused by over-issuance of paper money by governments and central banks);
(28%) 165 were destroyed by war (deemed invalid through military occupation or liberation).

The Second World War saw at least 95 currencies vanish as nations were conquered and liberated. Next to this, however, hyperinflation is one of the greatest calamities to strike a nation.

If gold backed currencies never fail, how many of them are still in use today?

[Dr.3D]

Page not loading for me but how many times has the dollar failed? The British Pound? The Euro? The Chinese yuan?

If gold backed currencies never fail, how many of them are still in use today?

[brushfire]

SO only certain people are allowed to use them? What needs to be "nationalized"?

"This note legal tender for all debts public and private"

They need to define legal tender, otherwise they're powerless. Who decides how many of those notes are in circulation? Such power is readily abused by a politically corrupt government that writes more checks than it can cash - reckless pandering to the electorate and serving special interests is an expensive venture. The system we have now promotes this government sponsored counterfeit (in my opinion its not any different than a group of individuals printing money in their basements). This counterfeit is the source of the inflation we are speaking to... What's funny is that the FED was supposed to control inflation

I bet with each trough, we find government meddling with another glorious paver made with the best of intentions:





Gold/precious metals are not perfect substitutes by any stretch, but its harder for governments to abuse the currency/override markets. That is, unless they have a scheme like Bretton Woods - just like pricing bread in Soviet Russia, it eventually became so laughable that they just abandoned it.
I think the point is to get government out of the currency game and allow the market to determine the value.

something generally accepted as a medium of exchange, a measure of value, or a means of payment...

Who better to determine this than individuals? We've got more than enough of the government's "good intention bricks" to pave a road from hell and back, 3 times. I think if we dig into the issue a little deeper, we also see this being the reason as to why the middle class has become extinct. I would support the ending of the Fed - but I would not support "fixing the fed" by creating other another central bank. I would also not support creating some BS government price fixing scheme on gold, and then calling it a market driven standard.

We'll see where trump goes with this...

[Zippyjuan]

They need to define legal tender, otherwise they're powerless. Who decides how many of those notes are in circulation? Such power is readily abused by a politically corrupt government that writes more checks than it can cash - reckless pandering to the electorate and serving special interests is an expensive venture. The system we have now promotes this government sponsored counterfeit (in my opinion its not any different than a group of individuals printing money in their basements). This counterfeit is the source of the inflation we are speaking to... What's funny is that the FED was supposed to control inflation

I bet with each trough, we find government meddling with another glorious paver made with the best of intentions:





Gold/precious metals are not perfect substitutes by any stretch, but its harder for governments to abuse the currency/override markets. That is, unless they have a scheme like Bretton Woods - just like pricing bread in Soviet Russia, it eventually became so laughable that they just abandoned it.
I think the point is to get government out of the currency game and allow the market to determine the value. Who better to determine this than individuals? We've got more than enough of the government's "good intention bricks" to pave a road from hell and back, 3 times. I think if we dig into the issue a little deeper, we also see this being the reason as to why the middle class has become extinct. I would support the ending of the Fed - but I would not support "fixing the fed" by creating other another central bank. I would also not support creating some BS government price fixing scheme on gold, and then calling it a market driven standard.

We'll see where trump goes with this...

Noting that a large portion of that chart was under a gold standard- we were under some form of it or another until 1972.

[Pizzo]

He picked the Munchkin for treasury.

[Dr.3D]

Noting that a large portion of that chart was under a gold standard- we were under some form of it or another until 1972.

That doesn't mean the government wasn't printing more receipts for gold and silver than it had in the bank. That's why it started making copper coins with a silver colored coating. The government has been cheating for some time.

[devil21]

He picked the Munchkin for treasury.

Total coincidence that Goldman Sachs folks visited Trump Tower today. Total coincidence.

[Pizzo]

Total coincidence that Goldman Sachs folks visited Trump Tower today. Total coincidence.

Just want to add, all reports saying he is expected to name, imminent, etc but I haven't seen a 100% confirmation just yet. Pretty awful if true.

[devil21]

Front page of CNBC not good enough?

[Pizzo]

Front page of CNBC not good enough?

I haven't been on cnbc's website in quite some time. I'm just saying what I saw on Twitter. Initially it was being reported as done, then the newer tweets I was seeing say he is expected to and such.

Edit: front page of cnbc also says "expected to name" which echoes what I said about the reports. Just being cautious here, want to make sure it's not a bad mean is all.

[Zippyjuan]

Expected choice but not official yet. http://www.wsj.com/articles/trump-pl...ary-1480459950

[brushfire]

Noting that a large portion of that chart was under a gold standard- we were under some form of it or another until 1972.

That's a very good point, thanks for making it. Lets talk about this "gold standard". How did that work? Was that a market driven price, or a government determined fixed rate? If the government fails at fixing the price of gold, how can they be effective in fixing the price of money?

just like pricing bread in Soviet Russia

This was the point I was attempting to make.

There are other inflationary factors here, which the fed is responsible for - having nothing to do with the gold standard. Precisely, interest rates (the price of money), and the fed has been a complete failure in that regard as well.

Dont get me wrong, I'm not trying to argue that a true gold standard, strictly based on market value, would be a perfect solution. What I'm trying to say is that the market will be much more honest and accurate than the politician's and their friends, and there will be less control to be exploited by the criminals that are typically elected into office.

[William R]

That's a very good point, thanks for making it. Lets talk about this "gold standard". How did that work? Was that a market driven price, or a government determined fixed rate? If the government fails at fixing the price of gold, how can they be effective in fixing the price of money?

This was the point I was attempting to make.[/COLOR]

There are other inflationary factors here, which the fed is responsible for - having nothing to do with the gold standard. Precisely, interest rates (the price of money), and the fed has been a complete failure in that regard as well.

Dont get me wrong, I'm not trying to argue that a true gold standard, strictly based on market value, would be a perfect solution. What I'm trying to say is that the market will be much more honest and accurate than the politician's and their friends, and there will be less control to be exploited by the criminals that are typically elected into office.

The government can't fix the price of gold. What the government does is define the dollar at a fixed weight of gold. From 1787 to 1933 the dollar was defined as 1/20th of an ounce of gold.

If gold drifted up to 25 dollars an ounce this would signal the people have lost faith in the treasury. They would exchange paper for gold. Gold acted as a mechanism against excessive government spending and monetization of debt. Government would reign in spending until the price of gold drifted down.

Gold is the only check the people had against politicians and bankers.

[CaptUSA]

As previously stated in the other thread, if Trump picks Allison for Treasury, it'd be his best pick yet.

But if it's some lower level appointment, it will be a DISappointment.

So in a matter of a few days we went from Allison being a potential pick for Treasury to a 2nd generation Goldman Sachs democrat in Mnuchin.

Trump - never failing to DISappoint.

[Mordan]

Front page of CNBC not good enough?

no. garbage propaganda

[William R]

On August 15, 1971 Nixon closed the gold window. The reason he did it is because the treasury was losing all of its gold to foreign governments. Nixon refused to cut spending, guns and butter Vietnam war. Also the FED Chairmen Arthur Burns was printing money to pay for the war.

On the day Nixon closed the gold window our national debt was 400 billion. Now it's closing in on 20 trillion. Without the dollar being defined at a fixed weight of gold there is no check on spending.


http://www.fff.org/2011/08/16/gold-w...pending-spree/

[brushfire]

The government can't fix the price of gold. What the government does is define the dollar at a fixed weight of gold. From 1787 to 1933 the dollar was defined as 1/20th of an ounce of gold.

If gold drifted up to 25 dollars an ounce this would signal the people have lost faith in the treasury. They would exchange paper for gold. Gold acted as a mechanism against excessive government spending and monetization of debt. Government would reign in spending until the price of gold drifted down.

Gold is the only check the people had against politicians and bankers.

The exchange for weight is still impacted by the price fixing I'd mentioned : https://mises.org/library/losing-battle-fix-gold-35

Sorry if I was not being clearer - it would have been better for me to more clearly differentiate price fixing of gold and the so called "gold standard".

[nikcers]

Gold acted as a mechanism against excessive government spending and monetization of debt.

price fixing of gold and the so called "gold standard".

Price fixing is definitely the root problem otherwise interest rates would act as a mechanism against excessive government spending. That's why we need to do a full audit of the FED. That way everyone knows where the chips lie.

[Zippyjuan]

Price fixing is definitely the root problem otherwise interest rates would act as a mechanism against excessive government spending. That's why we need to do a full audit of the FED. That way everyone knows where the chips lie.

How would auditing the Fed effect government spending or price inflation? The Fed's books are already audited. What Audit the Fed wants to audit is their policy deliberations.

[CaptUSA]

How would auditing the Fed effect government spending or price inflation? The Fed's books are already audited. What Audit the Fed wants to audit is their policy deliberations.

False. The Fed's books are only partially audited. Foreign accounts are not. And the policy deliberations would shed some light on the decisions being made and why and who is pushing which decisions. That's what they don't want us to know. You know, so it won't become political.

[Zippyjuan]

False. The Fed's books are only partially audited. Foreign accounts are not. And the policy deliberations would shed some light on the decisions being made and why and who is pushing which decisions. That's what they don't want us to know. You know, so it won't become political.

What sorts of "foreign accounts" does the Fed have?

Minutes of their deliberations are released after the fact so you do have the ability to learn who said what. Just not at that moment.

Here- you can read some if you like: https://www.federalreserve.gov/monet...ccalendars.htm

https://www.federalreserve.gov/faqs/about_12784.htm

Does the Federal Reserve ever get audited?

Yes, the Board of Governors, the 12 Federal Reserve Banks, and the Federal Reserve System as a whole are all subject to several levels of audit and review:

The Government Accountability Office (GAO) conducts numerous reviews of Federal Reserve activities.

The Board's financial statements, and its compliance with laws and regulations affecting those statements, are audited annually by an outside auditor retained by the Office of Inspector General (OIG).

The Board's OIG audits and investigates Board programs and operations as well as those Board functions delegated to the Reserve Banks. Completed and active GAO reviews and completed OIG audits, reviews, and assessments are listed in the Board's Annual Report. (Before 2002, the reviews were listed in the Board's Annual Report: Budget Review.)

The financial statements of the Reserve Banks are also audited annually by an independent outside auditor.

Each week, the Federal Reserve publishes its balance sheet and charts of recent balance sheet trends, as well as provides an interactive guide to the Fed's balance sheet. The balance sheet is included in the Federal Reserve's H.4.1 statistical release, "Factors Affecting Reserve Balances of Depository Institutions and Condition Statement of Federal Reserve Banks."

In addition, the Reserve Banks are subject to annual examination by the Board. The Board's financial statements and the combined financial statements for the Reserve Banks are published in the Board's Annual Report.

See our audit page for more information on all of the above audits and more information on the accounting, financial reporting, and internal controls of the Federal Reserve Board and Federal Reserve Banks.

More links at my link.

Their audit page: https://www.federalreserve.gov/newse...form_audit.htm

[nikcers]

How would auditing the Fed effect government spending or price inflation? The Fed's books are already audited. What Audit the Fed wants to audit is their policy deliberations.

Normally if there was no funny business going on, there would be inflation with lower interest, you could even tie interest rates to inflation and that would be better then what we have now. If we got to see what markets we were bailing out, and how much they were cooking the books, there would be outrage, and we would be calling for peoples heads.

People lost their houses, because the government paid banks to give everyone a loan for a house who wants one, and then when the banks sold houses to people who can't afford the houses they got sold back to the banks for pennies on the dollar. People are still ignorant that the government created these problems and then came in later acting like a hero offering false solutions to the problems they created and bailed out the banks.

I want to know why they did this, why did they blow up the united states real estate market in order to cause a world wide economic down turn. Why did they take my house away? I believe if we knew where the money was going we could find out fast.

[Zippyjuan]

Normally if there was no funny business going on, there would be inflation with lower interest, you could even tie interest rates to inflation and that would be better then what we have now. If we got to see what markets we were bailing out, and how much they were cooking the books, there would be outrage, and we would be calling for peoples heads.

Interest rates do usually follow the rate of inflation. They did so during the housing crisis too (housing boom was roughly 2000- 2006).

and how much they were cooking the books

The Fed's books are audited regularly- by law.

I want to know why they did this, why did they blow up the united states real estate market in order to cause a world wide economic down turn. Why did they take my house away? I believe if we knew where the money was going we could find out fast.

How did the Federal Reserve cause this? Did they issue you a mortgage? Did they fail to make payments? Did they foreclose on anybody?

[Swordsmyth]

What sorts of "foreign accounts" does the Fed have?

Minutes of their deliberations are released after the fact so you do have the ability to learn who said what. Just not at that moment.

Here- you can read some if you like: https://www.federalreserve.gov/monet...ccalendars.htm

https://www.federalreserve.gov/faqs/about_12784.htm



More links at my link.

Their audit page: https://www.federalreserve.gov/newse...form_audit.htm

So Zippy doesn't want the Fed audited?
Well then what is he doing here, It seems to me that Dr. Ron was rather keen on doing just that.

[nikcers]

How did the Federal Reserve cause this?

Are you asking how monetary policy can wipe out savings? The fed allows all of the disastrous policy decisions to happen.

[Zippyjuan]

So Zippy doesn't want the Fed audited?
Well then what is he doing here, It seems to me that Dr. Ron was rather keen on doing just that.

Have you read the bill? It doesn't audit their books. That is already done. It seeks to audit their deliberations.

[Swordsmyth]

Have you read the bill? It doesn't audit their books. That is already done. It seeks to audit their deliberations.

And you don't want that done either.

"Minutes of their deliberations are released after the fact so you do have the ability to learn who said what. Just not at that moment."

And I am sure we can trust the Banksters to give us a truthful report when they audit themselves right?

[Zippyjuan]

I gave a link to their minutes if you want to read through any of them. They are not hidden.

Here it is again: https://www.federalreserve.gov/monet...ccalendars.htm

[CaptUSA]

I gave a link to their minutes if you want to read through any of them. They are not hidden.

Here it is again: https://www.federalreserve.gov/monet...ccalendars.htm

Ugh... Here THIS is again:

Currently the GAO is prohibited by law from auditing four areas of the Federal Reserve:

Transactions for or with a foreign central bank, government of a foreign country, or no private international financing organization;

Deliberations, decisions, or actions on monetary policy matters, including discount window operations, reserves of member banks, securities credit, interest on deposits, and open market operations;

Transactions made under the direction of the Federal Open Market Committee; or

a part of a discussion or communication among or between members of the Board and officers and employees of the Federal Reserve System related to clauses (1)–(3) of this subsection.

http://www.campaignforliberty.org/audit-fed/

[Krugminator2]

False. The Fed's books are only partially audited. Foreign accounts are not. And the policy deliberations would shed some light on the decisions being made and why and who is pushing which decisions. That's what they don't want us to know. You know, so it won't become political.

I favor ending the Fed like most people here.

But why is it good for monetary policy to be audited in real time? I think it is an absolutely horrible idea. I would say roughly 0% of people in Congress have the background to make an informed decision on monetary policy. I don't want Elizabeth Warren having a say. Frankly, I like Rand, but I don't think he knows anything about money outside of what he read in Economics in One Lesson.

Monetary policy will be more subject to political elections than it already is. You will have some people arguing for more inflation to goose the economy and the opposite for the other side. It is an unpopular thing here to say, but Ben Bernanke did a pretty decent job. I am glad he didn't have to deal with Congress.