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Thread: Which form of taxation is best?

  1. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by Sonny Tufts View Post
    You would say the same thing about a tax on wages ("penalized for working too hard"), alimony ("penalized for marrying a rich spouse"), lottery winnings ("penalized for being lucky"), interest ("penalized for saving"). Why not just come out and say you're against all income taxes?
    Lottery is a voluntary tax for people who don’t understand math.



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  3. #32
    I would replace it with an income tax.
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    Liberty preserving authoritarianism.
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    Enforced internal open borders was one of the worst elements of the Constitution.



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  5. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by TheCount View Post
    I would replace it with an income tax.
    Of course, your manifesto demands it.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

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    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

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  6. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by Sonny Tufts View Post
    Indeed, because tariffs are added to the price of items and are passed on to the consumer. It was the view that consumption taxes like tariffs burdened the poor much more than the rich that was the impetus for the 1894 income tax.
    Exactly, to get the wealthy to "pay their fair share" and not to, as is now the case, furthermore burden those whom are non-well-to-do. Besides this in many respects income taxes operate exactly like tariffs, basically, as internal tariffs on all profit making activities and objects.
    Last edited by Weston White; 10-25-2017 at 11:45 PM.
    The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding one’s self in the ranks of the insane.” — Marcus Aurelius

    They’re not buying it. CNN, you dumb bastards!” — President Trump 2020

    Consilio et Animis de Oppresso Liber

  7. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by kcchiefs6465 View Post
    Pray tell, was this ‘view’ popular? Universal? Pimped and promoted by committees and editorials? Incorrect?
    It was popular enough to get the 16th Amendment ratified.
    We have long had death and taxes as the two standards of inevitability. But there are those who believe that death is the preferable of the two. "At least," as one man said, "there's one advantage about death; it doesn't get worse every time Congress meets."
    Erwin N. Griswold

    Taxes: Of life's two certainties, the only one for which you can get an automatic extension.
    Anonymous

  8. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by uncharted View Post
    Ron Paul - The Un-American income tax

    What would you replace the income tax with? Consumption tax? Flat Tax Rate?
    What is the goal of taxation?

    To placate the fear of _____?

    Now what if an individual isn't afraid of the same things a group of others are afraid of?
    Fear of man will prove to be a snare, but whoever trusts in the LORD is kept safe. Proverbs 29:25
    "I think the propaganda machine is the biggest problem that we face today in trying to get the truth out to people."
    Ron Paul

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  9. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by uncharted View Post
    Ron Paul - The Un-American income tax

    What would you replace the income tax with? Consumption tax? Flat Tax Rate?
    The goal with taxation should be minimizing the total burden on society.

    If the legitimate functions of the state require, say, $200 billion/year, the goal should be to collect that $200 billion as efficiently as possible. A tax system which costs $10 billion to administer is always better than one which costs $20 billion, all else being equal. Which tax system has the least overhead (in terms of auditors, evasion costs, compliance costs by the taxpayers themselves, etc)? It's somewhat debatable, but IMO the answer is property tax. Sales tax, excise, or VAT are also sensible options. The income tax is one of the least efficient taxes; this is because of the inherent difficulty of calculating this figure called "income."

  10. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    All tariffs are protectionist. They protect domestic producers from foreign competition. They are a hidden tax- hidden inside the prices we pay for goods and services.
    Not always, especially if there are no domestic producers. They can be punitive or for retribution. And they can also reduce the burden of internal taxation on the productive citizens.
    Pfizer Macht Frei!

    Openly Straight Man, Danke, Awarded Top Rated Influencer. Community Standards Enforcer.


    Quiz: Test Your "Income" Tax IQ!

    Short Income Tax Video

    The Income Tax Is An Excise, And Excise Taxes Are Privilege Taxes

    The Federalist Papers, No. 15:

    Except as to the rule of appointment, the United States have an indefinite discretion to make requisitions for men and money; but they have no authority to raise either by regulations extending to the individual citizens of America.

  11. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by Danke View Post
    Not always, especially if there are no domestic producers. They can be punitive or for retribution. And they can also reduce the burden of internal taxation on the productive citizens.
    Kind of hard for me to pretend I care about people paying a higher price for imported junk that I am not going to buy . So , yes , a tax that does not effect me is the best tax .

  12. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by r3volution 3.0 View Post
    The goal with taxation should be minimizing the total burden on society.

    If the legitimate functions of the state require, say, $200 billion/year, the goal should be to collect that $200 billion as efficiently as possible. A tax system which costs $10 billion to administer is always better than one which costs $20 billion, all else being equal. Which tax system has the least overhead (in terms of auditors, evasion costs, compliance costs by the taxpayers themselves, etc)? It's somewhat debatable, but IMO the answer is property tax. Sales tax, excise, or VAT are also sensible options. The income tax is one of the least efficient taxes; this is because of the inherent difficulty of calculating this figure called "income."
    I don't think this is entirely correct. The administrative costs of imposed income taxes are shifted onto each business payroll departments, they do all the work and electronically submit the data to the SSA/IRS, computer software is just kept updated which processes the ever changing rules and percentages, sends out the paperwork using the USPS for free, etc. As well the income tax affords a multi-billion dollar a year industries, between tax software, CPA professions, college degrees and professional certifications, paperwork printing and circulating, attorney fees and court costs, etc.
    The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding one’s self in the ranks of the insane.” — Marcus Aurelius

    They’re not buying it. CNN, you dumb bastards!” — President Trump 2020

    Consilio et Animis de Oppresso Liber



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  14. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by Weston White View Post
    The administrative costs of imposed income taxes are shifted onto each business payroll departments, they do all the work and electronically submit the data to the SSA/IRS, computer software is just kept updated which processes the ever changing rules and percentages, sends out the paperwork using the USPS for free, etc.
    A conservative estimate of compliance costs, counting only outright filing costs (not paperwork costs through the year, etc) is $37 billion.

    https://taxfoundation.org/cost-tax-compliance/

    As well the income tax affords a multi-billion dollar a year industries, between tax software, CPA professions, college degrees and professional certifications, paperwork printing and circulating, attorney fees and court costs, etc.
    Digging ditches and filling them in doesn't help anyone.

    ...is that you John Maynard?

  15. #42
    Which form of taxation is best?
    Is that a trick question? Every form of taxation is great, in its own way
    It's all about taking action and not being lazy. So you do the work, whether it's fitness or whatever. It's about getting up, motivating yourself and just doing it.
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  16. #43
    I think a tax on Universal Basic Income would be great. The UBI program would basically pay for itself, with the taxes it collects from itself.
    It's all about taking action and not being lazy. So you do the work, whether it's fitness or whatever. It's about getting up, motivating yourself and just doing it.
    - Kim Kardashian

    Donald Trump / Crenshaw 2024!!!!

    My pronouns are he/him/his

  17. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by oyarde View Post
    Kind of hard for me to pretend I care about people paying a higher price for imported junk that I am not going to buy . So , yes , a tax that does not effect me is the best tax .
    Tariffs effect all kinds of goods- not just "junk you don't buy anyways". We import oil for energy. We import foods. Domestic manufacturers use imported parts to produce their goods. They reduce competition for domestic producers- allowing them to get away with less efficiency and allowing them to charge higher prices than they otherwise would. And if we institute high tariffs, countries we trade with will likely impose tariffs on goods we sell to them- costing exporters jobs. It is a mistake to think you would not be impacted by high tariffs on imported goods.

    At current spending levels, tariffs would have to be 200% and cover everything we import- including energy and food.

  18. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by TheTexan View Post
    Is that a trick question? Every form of taxation is great, in its own way
    This is why you need lots of different taxes so they create "synergies".
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  19. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    Tariffs effect all kinds of goods- not just "junk you don't buy anyways". We import oil for energy. We import foods. Domestic manufacturers use imported parts to produce their goods. They reduce competition for domestic producers- allowing them to get away with less efficiency and allowing them to charge higher prices than they otherwise would. And if we institute high tariffs, countries we trade with will likely impose tariffs on goods we sell to them- costing exporters jobs. It is a mistake to think you would not be impacted by high tariffs on imported goods.

    At current spending levels, tariffs would have to be 200% and cover everything we import- including energy and food.
    You can never replace the current tax with anything at current spending levels . Current spending levels are the problem I generally try to avoid most imported food and oil but I do have to use some imported oil products , probably 20 bucks worth a week or so .

  20. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by EBounding View Post
    This is why you need lots of different taxes so they create "synergies".
    If there were enough of them they would create their own economy and we could all live for free.

  21. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by TheTexan View Post
    I think a tax on Universal Basic Income would be great. The UBI program would basically pay for itself, with the taxes it collects from itself.
    Up next, The Texan presents: Perpetual Motion made real.



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  23. #49
    I can use the savings I get from not buying nasty pre packaged foreign imitation food stuffs on more American things like Bourbon .

  24. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post
    Up next, The Texan presents: Perpetual Motion made real.
    It could work. Take out $x trillion in debt that takes $y each year to service the debt.

    Pay out $x in UBI and collect $y from tax on UBI.
    It's all about taking action and not being lazy. So you do the work, whether it's fitness or whatever. It's about getting up, motivating yourself and just doing it.
    - Kim Kardashian

    Donald Trump / Crenshaw 2024!!!!

    My pronouns are he/him/his

  25. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by r3volution 3.0 View Post
    A conservative estimate of compliance costs, counting only outright filing costs (not paperwork costs through the year, etc) is $37 billion.

    https://taxfoundation.org/cost-tax-compliance/

    Digging ditches and filling them in doesn't help anyone.

    ...is that you John Maynard?
    I suppose it is very correct to state that the current system of taxation is Keynesian. It is in itself a highly profitable industry--while the government shifts all burdens of it unto the public under the theory of "voluntary-compliance."

    https://www.franchisehelp.com/indust...dustry-report/
    The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding one’s self in the ranks of the insane.” — Marcus Aurelius

    They’re not buying it. CNN, you dumb bastards!” — President Trump 2020

    Consilio et Animis de Oppresso Liber

  26. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by Weston White View Post
    I suppose it is very correct to state that the current system of taxation is Keynesian. It is in itself a highly profitable industry--while the government shifts all burdens of it unto the public under the theory of "voluntary-compliance."

    https://www.franchisehelp.com/indust...dustry-report/
    Keynes on taxes: https://econdiaries.wordpress.com/20...s-on-taxation/

    The avoidance of taxes is the only intellectual pursuit that still carries any reward. Taxation is a device used to implement wrongful money extracting from the citizens of the United States. At this rate most ideas or implemented theories on the current economic government will eventually die out. I concur that the optimal opinion of the people would to lower taxes in each state. It makes economical sense to do according to the research I submitted many years ago. A simple theory I proposed logically makes sense, and many Americans can take it into accordance. Put modestly if inflation is lowered then that will result in employers making capital investments, which would then have an outcome of hiring more employees. This will hence leave to major investment created by investors, which will then restore the economy and mend the failing growth. The fact that other economists believe that taxes are beneficial are completely incorrect. It is quite a blasphemy that the hard-working American citizens should have to pay extra money to a government economical system, which is clearly failing. Employers will not increase employees to produce items, which will not be sold due to an incompetent demand.
    Raising taxes does not improve the problem, it just creates an even grander one. Once again repeating my previous statements, the solution is to not raise taxes. Even though it seems by looking at much of the data the tax rates have been lower, the government creates hidden taxes. With so many taxes being in the modern world, I am quite content I am not living in this era. This generation will be swimming in debt and recession if the taxes are not regulated or lowered. It seems there is taxation on telephones, gas, cable, almost everything, which can cause inflation and higher prices of goods. It seems nothing I said in regards to taxes have stuck with this government. Back in my day my theories were proven, but it seems today there is no logic involved with decision-making. Why should the government raise taxes if I have repeatedly stated taxes should be lowered in order to get out of a recession? All in all, like I have stated throughout my entire rant….the solution to get out of debt is to not tax the citizens.
    (on the debt problem, cutting taxes and hoping the economy will then produce enough economic growth to replace the tax cuts has not turned out to work in reality but you can't tax your way to prosperity either).

    His main purpose for cutting taxes was to spur economic growth during a recession. Aside from that, he was probably a lot more Libertarian than people realize.
    Last edited by Zippyjuan; 10-27-2017 at 10:26 PM.

  27. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    Keynes on taxes: https://econdiaries.wordpress.com/20...s-on-taxation/





    (on the debt problem, cutting taxes and hoping the economy will then produce enough economic growth to replace the tax cuts has not turned out to work in reality but you can't tax your way to prosperity either).

    His main purpose for cutting taxes was to spur economic growth during a recession. Aside from that, he was probably a lot more Libertarian than people realize.
    Spending is THE problem and Keynes is the prophet of government spending, get lost.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  28. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    Keynes on taxes: https://econdiaries.wordpress.com/20...s-on-taxation/





    (on the debt problem, cutting taxes and hoping the economy will then produce enough economic growth to replace the tax cuts has not turned out to work in reality but you can't tax your way to prosperity either).

    His main purpose for cutting taxes was to spur economic growth during a recession. Aside from that, he was probably a lot more Libertarian than people realize.
    I never meet the guy .

  29. #55
    Any tax is pure theft. All we wouldn't do is tax. Do you want to work? Pay the tax. Do you want to live in a lovely apartment? Pay the tax. They are all the same, so I do not choose the form here, probably the usual one. Yes, and to avoid significant taxes, I work unofficially (under a contract, but almost officially). Still, there is also an additional income on how to make good money quickly, where I do not need to worry about the tax. I choose not to pay taxes, so I am looking for ways to earn money, where they will not steal the money that I made them.
    Last edited by Santa01; 04-25-2021 at 01:41 PM.

  30. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by uncharted View Post
    What would you replace the income tax with? Consumption tax? Flat Tax Rate?
    That a serious question?
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