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Thread: Complete Myth Of Low US Unemployment

  1. #1

    Complete Myth Of Low US Unemployment

    http://stephenlendman.org/2018/05/my...-unemployment/

    by Stephen Lendman (stephenlendman.org – Home – Stephen Lendman)

    Media propaganda maintains the myth, including a NYT report in its latest edition, saying:

    An “unemployment rate (was achieved) below the 4 percent threshold,” the Times calling it a “milestone,” claiming it indicates a “tight…labor market…”

    Reality is polar opposite. Trump crowed about the phony Friday Labor Department (BLS) report tweeting: “JUST OUT: 3.9% Unemployment. 4% is Broken!”

    America’s privileged class never had things better. Unreported is continuation of protracted main street depression conditions.

    Economist John Williams reverse engineers monthly employment numbers based on how calculated in 1980.

    The so-called U-3 headlined unemployment number omits individuals without jobs wanting them, including many long-term unemployed ones not looking after months of failure to find work.

    Most jobs created are low-wage, poor-or-no benefit temporary or part-time ones. Monthly BLS reports reflect BS ones without the L in between. They conceal the nation’s true employment picture. It’s not pretty, nothing suggesting a robust jobs situation.

    The broader U-6 figure comes closer. It includes:

    (1) “Marginally attached workers: people wanting jobs but not actively looking in the past 30 days, but have looked unsuccessfully in the last year.”

    This category also includes “discouraged workers” who completely gave up in frustration within, but not exceeding, the past 12 months.



    (2) Also included are people looking for full-time work but forced to take part-time or temporary jobs to be employed.

    Williams’ latest reengineered calculation, the most accurate unemployment picture, has U-3 at 4.07, U-6 at 8.0%, and his ShadowStats-Alternative at 21.7% – remotely distant from anything approaching full employment.

    In the Labor Department’s latest Household Survey, full-time employment declined by 311,000, continuing the erosion of what long ago was the hallmark of industrial America, mostly now operating abroad in low-wage countries, why the trade deficit it so high.

    The nation’s economic strength is weak. Williams cited “weakening annual growth and no economic expansion,” adding:

    “Mixed but faltering annual real growth in construction spending continued in a pattern last seen leading into the 2007 recession.”

    Paul Craig Roberts calls monthly Labor Department employment reports “a bad joke.”

    David Stockman explained “if the U-3 unemployment rate actually measured labor ‘slack,’ wage rates would be rising smartly.”

    They’re not, Stockman calling the latest U-3 report “statistical noise,” using “deeply flawed employment models,” adding:

    The phony “Awesome Economy narrative is actually built on institutionalized lies that service the needs of Bubble Finance on both Wall Street and at the Fed -until the don’t” once inflated bubbles burst.

    Job numbers are inflated, manufactured out of thin air, partly based on a so-called birth-death model, estimating net non-reported jobs from new businesses minus losses from others no longer operating.

    ...
    Full article on link.

    ---

    Take a quick peek at "(1)" where it says "... in frustration within, but not exceeding, the past 12 months". How is it during the Great Recession we had Unemployment Benefits carried out for 99 weeks? That is nearly 2 years! So here is where the smoke and magic of numbers occurs. The Obama Administration had the legal definition of Long Term Unemployed changed from Two Years to ONE Year. That kind of bias has dramatically changed the way the numbers came out. Zippy should be along shortly to say "why should we consider them to be part of the workforce", while I will maintain that even when people DO apply for all these crappy jobs, they simply arent interviewed, ever. But the American Way is now to blame the victim, its that persons own fault for not applying for the right jobs. Believe me, I know many people right now who are still trying desperately to find work where no one bothers to call them back. I even tried applying for a job, an upgrade to my current situation, and the person I spoke to showed me a stack of well over a thousand applications for that one position. If the economy is so great, why are people applying in such volumes only to be rejected, not for lack of skills or desire to work, but simply displaced by the sheer volume of applicants for a single decent paying position?

    1776 > 1984

    The FAILURE of the United States Government to operate and maintain an
    Honest Money System , which frees the ordinary man from the clutches of the money manipulators, is the single largest contributing factor to the World's current Economic Crisis.

    The Elimination of Privacy is the Architecture of Genocide

    Belief, Money, and Violence are the three ways all people are controlled

    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    Our central bank is not privately owned.



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  3. #2
    John Williams considers people working part-time as unemployed. They have a job. He also includes people who aren't even trying to find a job.

    and the person I spoke to showed me a stack of well over a thousand applications for that one position.
    One thousand for one job? What was the job?


    https://www.themaven.net/economonito...iKzS4Q/?full=1

    Williams, however, is looking for something different. His alternate unemployment rate should be understood as a broad measure of the employment gap**—the difference between the amount of work that people would like to do and the amount they actually do. Such a measure should include people who say they would like a job but who are not working, whether they are actively looking for work or not. It would also take into account people who are working, but who would like more hours.
    The bottom line here is that the ShadowStats alternate unemployment rate of 23 percent for May 2015, and similar rates for other recent months, are completely implausible. To get an unemployment rate that high, we have to include millions of people who do not even claim to want a job, let alone make any effort to look for one. We have to assume that the status of long-term discouraged worker is a trap from which almost no one escapes from year to year, by finding work, by making even a single unsuccessful attempt to find work during the year, by changing their mind about wanting work, or by death.

    One thing is certain: We cannot, as Williams implies, get to the ShadowStats rate simply by going back to the methods used by the BLS before 1994. We can only get his numbers by using data sources and methods that the BLS never used in the past and does not use now.
    Article goes into much more detail as to why William's numbers are implausible. Example:

    Current BLS estimates of long-term nonemployment. It is not quite true that long-term discouraged workers “were defined out of official existence” by the 1994 methodological changes, as Williams alleges. Rather, they were reclassified. The BLS continues to report the number of people who want a job but did not look in the past year in its monthly Table A-38, even though it does not use the terms “long-term discouraged worker” or “long-term marginally attached.”

    However, the number of people that the BLS reports as wanting jobs but not looking for work in the past year is nowhere nearly as large as Williams’ estimate of LTDWs. In May 2015, the BLS reported that there were 92,025,000 people not in the labor force. Of those, an estimated 86,200,000 did not want a job now, leaving 6,536,000 who did want a job. Of those, 1,862,000 were classified as marginally attached, meaning that they were available for work and had searched for work in the last year, but not the last four weeks. Another 962,000 who had looked for work in the past year but not the past four weeks were not currently available for work. That left just 3,712,000 people who said they wanted a job but had not looked for work in the previous year—only one-seventh of Williams’ estimate for long-term discouraged workers.
    Last edited by Zippyjuan; 05-07-2018 at 12:03 PM.

  4. #3
    Most jobs created are low-wage, poor-or-no benefit temporary or part-time ones.
    Piss off, cry baby.

  5. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by angelatc View Post
    Piss off, cry baby.
    If you are starting a new business, you can't afford to give everybody $100k+ a year plus benefits. Entry level isn't a high paying job. Never has been. You work your way up (hopefully). When everybody has high paying jobs you start to look more like San Francisco/ San Jose- everything gets more crowded and expensive. Utopia is a myth.

  6. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    When everybody has high paying jobs you start to look more like San Francisco/ San Jose- everything gets more crowded and expensive. Utopia is a myth.
    I don't see how that doesn't end badly for the people living there, especially newer people who buy houses. You have to have a continuous supply of buyers. I suspect the market will correct that situation.

    The average home price in San Fran is $1.3 million and over a million in San Jose. Let's you make $150k as a engineer at Google. That's a very good income most places But you can't afford a house there with that income and maybe not even rent. If you are a teacher or police office, I would imagine you probably have to commute an hour. Where is the demand going to come from?

  7. #6
    I would be happy to put in a recommendation at my job. We can’t hire people fast enough. High turnover because people transfer or are promoted. I’ve been promoted twice in less than a year.
    #NashvilleStrong

    “I’m a doctor. That’s a baby.”~~~Dr. Manny Sethi

  8. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by euphemia View Post
    I would be happy to put in a recommendation at my job. We can’t hire people fast enough. High turnover because people transfer or are promoted. I’ve been promoted twice in less than a year.
    Where do you work if you dont mind my asking?
    1776 > 1984

    The FAILURE of the United States Government to operate and maintain an
    Honest Money System , which frees the ordinary man from the clutches of the money manipulators, is the single largest contributing factor to the World's current Economic Crisis.

    The Elimination of Privacy is the Architecture of Genocide

    Belief, Money, and Violence are the three ways all people are controlled

    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    Our central bank is not privately owned.

  9. #8
    Sorry, I’m not going to share where I work. I’m still in travel and tourism, although not in hospitality.

    Two promotions in a year is significant for me because I have never done this specific job before.
    #NashvilleStrong

    “I’m a doctor. That’s a baby.”~~~Dr. Manny Sethi



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  11. #9
    I thought you worked at a call center.

  12. #10
    Trump promised to create 25 million jobs in his 10-years-presidency (?!?), more than 200,000 a month, he (also) isn't on track on that promise: http://money.cnn.com/interactive/new...-jobs-tracker/

    Often state propaganda is being spread by our wonderful media on the “low” unemployment figures. We are for example told that unemployment in the US is only 3.8% - the lowest “in nearly 50 years”.
    The truth is that current unemployment isn’t “low” at all. For years, the US government has been taking numbers out of one category and putting them into another category.
    While the official number of “unemployed” Americans keeps going down, the number of Americans “not in the labor force” keeps going up.

    According to the Federal Reserve, there were 6,065,000 working age Americans unemployed last May.
    According to the same Fed, another category of 95,915,000 working age Americans are not “officially unemployed” because they are considered to be “not in the labor force”.

    When you add 6,065,000 and 95,915,000, there are 101,980,000 working age Americans that didn’t have a job last month. That’s an all-time record high; higher than it was during the last recession, when the number of working age Americans without a job never surpassed 100 million.
    According to John Williams, the unemployment rate is actually 21.5%.

    To finish this story…
    There is nothing “sustainable” about the current economic situation of the US. It looks like we are in the terminal phase of greatest debt bubble in history. We can expect that this bubble will implode in the near future. I guess that banks are ready to take away more of our assets...
    All of the US’s long-term financial imbalances have continued to get worse since the last recession.
    Time is running out, but most Americans rather look the other way: http://theeconomiccollapseblog.com/a...-job-right-now
    (archived here: http://archive.is/8ZOex)
    Do NOT ever read my posts. Google and Yahoo wouldn’t block them without a very good reason: Google-censors-the-world/page3

    The Order of the Garter rules the world: Order of the Garter and the Carolingian dynasty

  13. #11
    "Not in the labor force" means you are 16 years or older, not working now, and have not even looked for a job in over a year. Why were people not in the labor force? Not in the labor force includes people who have retired. It includes stay at home Moms and Dads. It includes students who are studying and not working. It includes those who are ill or disabled and unable to work and not looking for a job. It includes people who voluntarily take care of somebody else.

    What is the breakdown? https://www.bls.gov/opub/btn/volume-...ey-working.htm

    In 2014, 87.4 million people 16 years and older neither worked nor looked for work at any time during the year. (See table 1.)

    Of this group, 38.5 million people reported retirement as the main reason for not working. About 16.3 million people were ill or had a disability, and 16.0 million were attending school. Another 13.5 million people cited home responsibilities as the main reason for not working in 2014, and 3.1 million individuals gave “other reasons.”
    The biggest surge right now is the retirement of the Baby Boomer generation. They are currently retiring at a rate of roughly 10,000 a day or over 3.5 million a year.

    Does this mean the US does not have enough jobs? Because too many are retiring and causing the labor force participation rate to go down? Maybe they should get back to work!
    Last edited by Zippyjuan; 06-16-2018 at 01:42 PM.

  14. #12
    loveshiscountry
    Member

    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    "Not in the labor force" means you are 16 years or older, not working now, and have not even looked for a job in over a year. Why were people not in the labor force? Not in the labor force includes people who have retired. It includes stay at home Moms and Dads. It includes students who are studying and not working. It includes those who are ill or disabled and unable to work and not looking for a job. It includes people who voluntarily take care of somebody else.

    What is the breakdown? https://www.bls.gov/opub/btn/volume-...ey-working.htm



    The biggest surge right now is the retirement of the Baby Boomer generation. They are currently retiring at a rate of roughly 10,000 a day or over 3.5 million a year.

    Does this mean the US does not have enough jobs? Because too many are retiring and causing the labor force participation rate to go down? Maybe they should get back to work!
    Why do you think birth rates are lower than death rates? For what you say to be true, 10k a day retire while less than 10k join the workforce.

  15. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by loveshiscountry View Post
    Why do you think birth rates are lower than death rates? For what you say to be true, 10k a day retire while less than 10k join the workforce.
    True they are partially offset by those reaching age 16 but those turning 16 each year are fewer in number than those retiring each year.


  16. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    At least there's information in the link...

    The chart confirms that the number of people excluded from the labour force has been steadily rising from 2004 to 2014…


    There is a breakdown of the reported reasons for ages 16 to 24 – that claims that THE cause is going to school…

    For the ages 25-54 the reason(s) for the rise from 2004 to 2014 aren’t logical at all (this looks like propaganda, lies) – Disabled; Retired; Going to school.


    For the ages 55-64, and older than 65, according to the official numbers, the percentage of retired actually went down!
    This makes it even less likely that from the group 25-54 to have retired more…


    Please note that these graphs only present percentages (so no numbers).
    Do NOT ever read my posts. Google and Yahoo wouldn’t block them without a very good reason: Google-censors-the-world/page3

    The Order of the Garter rules the world: Order of the Garter and the Carolingian dynasty

  17. #15
    The important thing being that these are people who CHOOSE not to have jobs for various reasons. Even if there were 100 million more jobs available in the economy, they would not accept one of them.

    If people can afford to not work and choose not to, does that mean you have a bad economy?
    Last edited by Zippyjuan; 06-17-2018 at 01:26 PM.

  18. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    The important thing being that these are people who CHOOSE not to have jobs for various reasons. Even if there were 100 million more jobs available in the economy, they would not accept one of them.
    That is presumed, if the job market was better many of them would return to work.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment



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  20. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    That is presumed, if the job market was better many of them would return to work.
    It doesn't get a whole lot better than 3.8% unemployment. Economists generally consider three percent to be "full employment" to cover those between jobs. Since WWII that has only happened in the early 1950's and the late 1960's. 1968 is the last time it was below 4%.

    https://data.bls.gov/pdq/SurveyOutputServlet
    Last edited by Zippyjuan; 06-17-2018 at 01:35 PM.

  21. #18
    I think US employment numbers are based on fuzzy math. Employment is always in a state of flux, so it doesn't matter what you try to show, the numbers are easily manipulated. The system is set up that way.
    #NashvilleStrong

    “I’m a doctor. That’s a baby.”~~~Dr. Manny Sethi

  22. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    It doesn't get a whole lot better than 3.8% unemployment. Economists generally consider three percent to be "full employment" to cover those between jobs.
    Circular logic.
    You can't claim that low unemployment numbers from the government verify low unemployment numbers from the government.
    Last edited by Swordsmyth; 06-18-2018 at 08:24 PM.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  23. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Circular logic.
    You can't claim that low unemployment number from the government verify low unemployment numbers from the government.
    Shadowstats uses government numbers too- he just likes to include people working part time (and looking for more hours) along with people not even looking for work as unemployed to inflate his figures. Plus some unexplained "fudge factor". A look at how he does things: https://seekingalpha.com/article/326...mployment-rate

    The one BLS uses counts you as unemployed if you don't currently work for pay but are out there looking for a job. If you haven't been looking for a job, they don't consider you in the labor force. If you are getting paid, even part time, you are considered as "employed". They don't consider if you want a better job- the point being that you do have a job.

    Those "not in the labor force" haven't looked for a job in a year or more.
    Last edited by Zippyjuan; 06-17-2018 at 02:05 PM.

  24. #21
    *sigh*

    So people that retire are still considered "Working Age"?

    Why is the legal definition of "Longterm Unemployed" constantly meddled with? Reducing it from two years to only one year? That is a tactic called "moving the goalpost". Does anyone remember 99 weeks? Isnt 99 weeks almost 2 years?

    Zippy, you define things as you want to see them, not the way everyone else sees them. There are a LOT of people that want jobs that dont apply to work for Uber or other places they know they will have success chance of success, and those seem to be the only jobs that many people are qualified for. Yet, not applying to work for Uber when you dont have a car means youre not Unemployed, it means you dont want to work? If Real Unemployment is so low, why are there so few jobs, even crap jobs, and the number of people, excluding Baby Boomers retiring, that are part of the 102 MILLION Working Age people that dont have jobs? There are a few legit exclusions like students or disabled. Pointing the finger at retiring Baby Boomers is twaddlespeak because that group is no longer included in "Working Age" and is as easily offset as many people are also turning 18 and also adding to "not in the labor force".

    I swear, if you asked Zippy to crunch the raw data, he would conclude that Unemployment is at 0.00038% because he does not care at all about telling the truth, or how his lies hurt people, and only wants to bolster his own ego.
    1776 > 1984

    The FAILURE of the United States Government to operate and maintain an
    Honest Money System , which frees the ordinary man from the clutches of the money manipulators, is the single largest contributing factor to the World's current Economic Crisis.

    The Elimination of Privacy is the Architecture of Genocide

    Belief, Money, and Violence are the three ways all people are controlled

    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    Our central bank is not privately owned.

  25. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by DamianTV View Post
    *sigh*

    So people that retire are still considered "Working Age"?

    Why is the legal definition of "Longterm Unemployed" constantly meddled with? Reducing it from two years to only one year? That is a tactic called "moving the goalpost". Does anyone remember 99 weeks? Isnt 99 weeks almost 2 years?

    Zippy, you define things as you want to see them, not the way everyone else sees them. There are a LOT of people that want jobs that dont apply to work for Uber or other places they know they will have success chance of success, and those seem to be the only jobs that many people are qualified for. If Real Unemployment is so low, why are there so few jobs, even crap jobs, and the number of people, excluding Baby Boomers retiring, that are part of the 102 MILLION Working Age people that dont have jobs? There are a few legit exclusions like students or disabled. Pointing the finger at retiring Baby Boomers is twaddlespeak because that group is no longer included in "Working Age" and is as easily offset as many people are also turning 18 and also adding to "not in the labor force".

    I swear, if you asked Zippy to crunch the raw data, he would conclude that Unemployment is at 0.00038% because he does not care at all about telling the truth, or how his lies hurt people, and only wants to bolster his own ego.
    BLS counts anybody age 16 and older as "working age". They don't toss you out when you hit 65- you only don't count as "working age" when you are dead. Retired or working, they are considered "working age". If they are retired, they are not in the labor force since they are aren't working and aren't looking for work. But if you want to exclude anybody of retirement age from the "not working" category you just reduced your 100 million in it to about 50 million.

    There are a few legit exclusions like students or disabled.
    Add in stay at home parents and those taking care of others and you have almost everybody besides the retired people so if you reject counting retired people as not counting as "working age" then almost everybody in the "not in the labor force" is covered (all but 0.9% of the population according to the charts Firestarter posted above).

    Yet, not applying to work for Uber when you dont have a car means youre not Unemployed, it means you dont want to work?
    If you are not looking for a job, you are not counted as in the labor force and thus are not considered "unemployed". If you applied to Uber, you are.

    Why is the legal definition of "Long term Unemployed" constantly meddled with? Reducing it from two years to only one year? That is a tactic called "moving the goalpost". Does anyone remember 99 weeks? Isnt 99 weeks almost 2 years?
    When was the last time that the definition of "long term unemployment" was changed? How does that impact the overall unemployment rate? Your "99 week" in the OP refers to time limits for collecting unemployment insurance -not to "long term unemployment". To be eligible for unemployment insurance you must be looking for work- that action counts you as in the labor force but unemployed. But you can also be not on unemployment insurance and count as in the workforce and unemployed- all you need to do is be not working for money but looking for a job. Being on unemployment is irrelevant to your classification of being unemployed.


    If Real Unemployment is so low, why are there so few jobs, even crap jobs,
    I don't know- why? Are there no jobs?



    That is total jobs. What about available jobs?

    http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank...-highs-in-u-s/

    U.S. job openings at record high levels

    With the U.S. economic expansion well into its eighth year, some states are experiencing what might seem like an enviable problem: not enough people to fill all the available jobs. Utah and Colorado, among others, are reporting local worker shortages and record or near-record low unemployment. And nationally, job openings remain at their highest levels since the turn of the century.

    As of the end of April, nonfarm employers reported more than 6 million job openings, according to seasonally adjusted data from the government’s Job Openings and Labor Turnover Survey (known as JOLTS). Although there are still more people without jobs than there are job openings – about 6.9 million people reported being unemployed in May – the monthly estimate of open positions has been above 5.5 million for all but one month since the start of 2016, a sign of the U.S. economy’s relative health. In July 2009, just past the trough of the Great Recession, employers reported fewer than 2.2 million job openings, the lowest total since the Bureau of Labor Statistics began collecting JOLTS data in 2000.


    Another way of looking at the vacancies data is the job openings rate, which is calculated by dividing the total number of openings by the sum of total employment and openings. (The higher the rate, the greater the nation’s unmet demand for labor.) The openings rate was a robust 4% in April, matching the high points reached in July 2015 and July 2016. Like the total number of job openings, the openings rate bottomed out in July 2009, at 1.7%.
    (article was from one year ago)
    Last edited by Zippyjuan; 06-17-2018 at 04:59 PM.

  26. #23
    You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Zippyjuan again.
    You deserve yet another -Rep. Someone want to cover me?
    1776 > 1984

    The FAILURE of the United States Government to operate and maintain an
    Honest Money System , which frees the ordinary man from the clutches of the money manipulators, is the single largest contributing factor to the World's current Economic Crisis.

    The Elimination of Privacy is the Architecture of Genocide

    Belief, Money, and Violence are the three ways all people are controlled

    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    Our central bank is not privately owned.

  27. #24
    Which of those people should be counted as unemployed?



    http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank...-jobs-numbers/

    That bottom number (35.2%) is where we find our "not in the labor force" people- including students, stay at home parents, volunteer caregivers, retired persons, etc. They have not looked for a job in at least a year.

    The 2.5% "employed part time for economic reasons" are people who are working part time but would like to be working more hours.
    Last edited by Zippyjuan; 06-17-2018 at 04:52 PM.



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  29. #25
    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...rd-6-7-million

    Earlier this month:

    U.S. Job Openings Rise to Record, Exceeding Number of Unemployed

    U.S. job openings unexpectedly rose to a fresh record in April, with vacancies increasingly exceeding the number of unemployed workers amid a robust labor market, Labor Department data showed Tuesday.

    Key Takeaways
    The gains reinforce the view that the economy is creating jobs at a pace that can absorb any remaining labor-market slack. The report follows data released last week that showed payrolls increased more than forecast in May, the unemployment rate fell to 3.8 percent, matching April 2000 as the lowest since 1969, and wages also picked up.
    More at link.

  30. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    So why doesnt ANYONE jump in to back up ANY of your claims that everything is awesome, inflation is good, unemployment is really low, and Ron Paul is flat out wrong on everything especially the economy? Are you smarter than Ron Paul? Does Ron Paul only express incorrect opinions on everything that has to do with economics? Why arent there a hundred thousand people, hell, even ONE person, jumping in and jumping my $#@! and having your back?
    1776 > 1984

    The FAILURE of the United States Government to operate and maintain an
    Honest Money System , which frees the ordinary man from the clutches of the money manipulators, is the single largest contributing factor to the World's current Economic Crisis.

    The Elimination of Privacy is the Architecture of Genocide

    Belief, Money, and Violence are the three ways all people are controlled

    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    Our central bank is not privately owned.

  31. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by DamianTV View Post
    So why doesnt ANYONE jump in to back up ANY of your claims that everything is awesome, inflation is good, unemployment is really low, and Ron Paul is flat out wrong on everything especially the economy? Are you smarter than Ron Paul? Does Ron Paul only express incorrect opinions on everything that has to do with economics? Why arent there a hundred thousand people, hell, even ONE person, jumping in and jumping my $#@! and having your back?
    Sorry. You are right. We are always in recession. There is never any good economy. Unemployment and inflation are all triple digits. Always. But gold will solve all of that.

    Yes, I do disagree with Ron Paul on economics. Some here disagree with him on other things like immigration and border walls. I don't agree with anybody on everything. I don't follow whatever anybody says blindly. (and I am not the only one).

    So, back to the discussion. How many of the people in the chart would you consider "unemployed"? Which groups?

    How do you define unemployment? Anybody not working for whatever reason? If so, we have about 40% unemployment.

    Is there a preferred time limit to not be looking for work before we decide a person isn't interested in getting a job? Is a year too short?
    Last edited by Zippyjuan; 06-17-2018 at 06:13 PM.

  32. #28
    I would define Unemployed as anyone who self defines Unemployed. The decision would be based on their own opinion. The ability for someone else to interpret what they say as different allows for Bias. The results are obvious to anyone who isnt a Brainwashed Keynsian.

    You've pissed a lot more people here off here than just me, Mr "I have the longest Red Bar of any member on this forum". You may also want to keep in mind that with that big Red Bar, anything you say has very very damaged credibility, especially to people who read but do not post. So by all means, continue to post and continue to undermine the very system you try to support, as most people now understand why you have the big Red Bar that you do. With that status, you are now working against the very system you continue to validate since you never offer solutions that work for anyone but yourself or your overlords.
    1776 > 1984

    The FAILURE of the United States Government to operate and maintain an
    Honest Money System , which frees the ordinary man from the clutches of the money manipulators, is the single largest contributing factor to the World's current Economic Crisis.

    The Elimination of Privacy is the Architecture of Genocide

    Belief, Money, and Violence are the three ways all people are controlled

    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    Our central bank is not privately owned.

  33. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by DamianTV View Post
    I would define Unemployed as anyone who self defines Unemployed. The decision would be based on their own opinion. The ability for someone else to interpret what they say as different allows for Bias. The results are obvious to anyone who isnt a Brainwashed Keynsian.
    My red bars were a gift from a friend. But I don't care about bars.

    OK. This is a start. The person should say they consider themselves unemployed. BLS asks people if they want a job or not in their figures.

    We can toss out those in the "employed" category in the chart. We can also get rid of the "don't want a job" category. That leaves 5.6%. Shadowstats says about 22% so he is way off. We can reject his figures but we can keep the grey line in his chart- the U-6 unemployment. The U-6 measures those and also counts those who are part time but want more hours. That is currently 7.6%.

    That is at its lowest point on his chart since at least 2000 and was about 17% during the recession- a significant improvement for no jobs being added.
    Last edited by Zippyjuan; 06-17-2018 at 06:34 PM.

  34. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    My red bars were a gift from a friend of liberty.
    fixed it.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

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