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Thread: PA lawmakers move to end illegal no-excuse mail in voting used to poisoned 2020 election.

  1. #1

    PA lawmakers move to end illegal no-excuse mail in voting used to poisoned 2020 election.

    .


    See: Pennsylvania GOP Moves to Repeal No-Excuse Mail-In Ballot Provisions

    January 22, 2021


    Sens. Patrick Stefano and Doug Mastriano said in a Jan. 21 memorandum, “By removing the provisions of law that allow for no-excuse mail-in ballots, we can regain some trust in our elections’ integrity.”


    The senators also said that “… Gov. Tom Wolf (D) and Secretary of State Kathy Boockvar (D), as well as the Pennsylvania Supreme Court, which has a 5-2 Democratic majority, had taken advantage of mail-in voting and “usurped legislative power to set the conditions for an election result in their political interest.”
    .

    In regard to the legitimacy of Pennsylvania’s no-excuse mail in voting, and their obvious unconstitutional nature, let us recall what two of PA’s Supreme Court Justices have stated. See Justices CONCURRING AND DISSENTING STATEMENT which indicates The Act of October 31, 2019, P.L. 552, No. 77. is un-constitutional.



    CHIEF JUSTICE SAYLOR

    Filed: November 28, 2020



    "I agree with the majority that injunctive relief restraining certification of the votes of Pennsylvanians cast in the 2020 general election should not have been granted and is unavailable in the present circumstances. As the majority relates, there has been too much good-faith reliance, by the electorate, on the no-excuse mail-in voting regime created by Act 77 to warrant judicial consideration of the extreme and untenable remedies proposed by Appellees.1 Accordingly, I join the per curiam Order to the extent that it vacates the preliminary injunction implemented by the Commonwealth Court.2”

    ”That said, there is a component of Appellees’ original complaint, filed in the Commonwealth Court, which seeks declaratory relief and is unresolved by the above remedial assessment. Additionally, I find that the relevant substantive challenge raised by Appellees presents troublesome questions about the constitutional validity of the new mail-in voting scheme." 3”

    “One of Appellants’ main responses is that the citizenry, and perhaps future generations, are forever bound by the Legislature’s decision to insert, into Act 77 itself, a 180-day time restriction curtailing challenges to the substantive import of the enactment. See Act of Oct. 31, 2019, P.L. 552, No. 77, §13(3). However, I find this assessment to be substantially problematic.4 Further, as Appellees observe, ongoing amendments to an unconstitutional enactment so insulated from judicial review may have a compounding effect by exacerbating the disparity between what the Constitution requires and the law as it is being enforced. Thus, Appellees raise a colorable challenge to the viability of this sort of limitation, which can result in effectively amending the Constitution via means other those which the charter itself sanctions. See PA. CONST., art. XI (Amendments).

    “To the degree that Appellees wish to pursue this challenge in the ordinary course, upon the realization that their proposed injunctive remedies will be considered no further, I would allow them to do so in the Commonwealth Court upon a remand. In this regard, relative to the declaratory component of the request for relief, I also would not invoke the doctrine of laches, since the present challenge arises in the first election cycle in which no-excuse mail-in voting has been utilized. Moreover, “laches and prejudice can never be permitted to amend the Constitution.” Sprague v. Casey, 520 Pa. 38, 47, 550 A.2d 184, 188 (1988).

    “Consistent with my position throughout this election cycle, I believe that, to the extent possible, we should apply more ordinary and orderly methods of judicial consideration, since far too much nuance is lost by treating every election matter as exigent and worthy of this Court’s immediate resolution. In this respect, I would honor the Commonwealth Court’s traditional role as the court of original and original appellate jurisdiction for most election matters. Finally, I am decidedly against yet another award of extraordinary jurisdiction at the Secretary’s behest.”

    Justice Mundy joins this Concurring and Dissenting Statement."


    JWK


    Our socialist/fascist revolutionaries, which now control the Democrat Party Leadership, are known for accusing others of what they themselves are guilty of.



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  3. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by johnwk View Post
    Sens. Patrick Stefano and Doug Mastriano said in a Jan. 21 memorandum, “By removing the provisions of law that allow for no-excuse mail-in ballots, we can regain some trust in our elections’ integrity.”


    The senators also said that “… Gov. Tom Wolf (D) and Secretary of State Kathy Boockvar (D), as well as the Pennsylvania Supreme Court, which has a 5-2 Democratic majority, had taken advantage of mail-in voting and “usurped legislative power to set the conditions for an election result in their political interest.”
    What hypocrites. These guys voted for the bill that allowed no-excuse mail-in voting.
    We have long had death and taxes as the two standards of inevitability. But there are those who believe that death is the preferable of the two. "At least," as one man said, "there's one advantage about death; it doesn't get worse every time Congress meets."
    Erwin N. Griswold

    Taxes: Of life's two certainties, the only one for which you can get an automatic extension.
    Anonymous

  4. #3
    More like they want to continue illegal mail in voting.
    "Perhaps one of the most important accomplishments of my administration is minding my own business."

    Calvin Coolidge

  5. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Sonny Tufts View Post
    What hypocrites. These guys voted for the bill that allowed no-excuse mail-in voting.


    Now that you stated something irrelevant, do you not agree PA's no-excuse mail in voting is not only unconstitutional, but was a predictable vehicle for election fraud?


    JWK

    First the President is cut off from twitter, then Sen. Hawley’s book is cancelled, then the WalkAway Facebook page is taken down, Parler is removed, and even Mike Lindell, our pillow guy is banned from Twitter. . . Is it not self-evident a dangerous and un-American pattern is developing to cancel patriotic conservative speech?

  6. #5
    Penn has proven it cannot be trusted . They should be punished for violating law . There will not be any faith in a state that cannot earn it . Dud state is dud state . Penn should not be allowed to vote next election.
    Last edited by oyarde; 01-26-2021 at 09:44 PM.
    Do something Danke

  7. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Sonny Tufts View Post
    What hypocrites. These guys voted for the bill that allowed no-excuse mail-in voting.
    The SOS and Supreme Court abused the law by rewriting it in their own words, which they had no authority to do.

    If they can't be trusted to follow the law that they passed, then repealing it is the only option.

    Sonny of course wont read it, but below document provides a good summary of what happened:

    https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sour...N2IVJAePnmWuLH
    It's all about taking action and not being lazy. So you do the work, whether it's fitness or whatever. It's about getting up, motivating yourself and just doing it.
    - Kim Kardashian

    Donald Trump / Crenshaw 2024!!!!

    My pronouns are he/him/his

  8. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by TheTexan View Post
    The SOS and Supreme Court abused the law by rewriting it in their own words, which they had no authority to do.

    If they can't be trusted to follow the law that they passed, then repealing it is the only option.

    Sonny of course wont read it, but below document provides a good summary of what happened:

    https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sour...N2IVJAePnmWuLH
    The PA Supreme Court's decision was based on the PA Constitution and on PA statutes. Texas's argument was based on the astonishing claim that in devising the rules for selecting electors a state legislature isn't bound by its state constitution. A similar argument involving the authority of state legislatures under the Article I Elections Clause had been previously rejected in Arizona State Legislature v. Arizona Independent Redistricting Commission, 576 U.S. 787 (2015), and the same reasoning would apply with respect to the Article II Electors Clause.

    TheTexan of course won't read it, but a far better legal analysis than Ken Paxton's mishmash of a petition is PA's response:

    The fourth and final claim of a state law violation—the Pennsylvania Supreme Court’s modification of the statutory deadline for receipt of mail-in and absentee ballots—was addressed at length in the Commonwealth’s opposition to petitions for writ of certiorari that are currently pending before the Court. Republican Party of Pa. v. Boockvar, No. 20-542 (U.S.); Scarnati v. Boockvar, No. 20-574 (U.S.). A confluence of unforeseen circumstances—a high demand for mail-in ballots due to COVID and a slowdown in the postal service—created an impending, as-applied state constitutional violation of the Pennsylvania Constitution’s Free and Equal Elections Clause. See Pa. Democratic Party, 238 A.3d at 371-72 (Pa. 2020). In order to prevent that violation, the Pennsylvania Supreme Court modified the statutory deadline. Such modification did not violate the Electors Clause because that clause does not relieve state legislatures of the obligation to comply with their state constitutions. See AIRC, 576 U.S. at 818; see also Democratic Nat’l Comm. v. Wisc. State Legislature, No. 20A66, __ U.S. __, 2020 WL 6275871, *1 (2020) (Roberts, C.J., concurring in denial of stay) (allowing the modification of election rules in Pennsylvania because it “implicated the authority of state courts to apply their own constitutions to election regulations”). Although Texas makes no mention of AIRC, that case, not Chief Justice Rehnquist’s concurrence in Bush v. Gore 531 US 98, 111 (2000) (C.J., Rehnquist)
    (concurring), controls here.

    Indeed, Texas’s argument is so untethered from the actual state of the law that it makes the remarkable claim that a state legislature’s power to direct the manner by which presidential electors are appointed is “plenary.” Motion at 17-18. So plenary is that power, Texas claims, that state legislatures are not bound by either the state constitution that establishes them or the laws that the legislature itself has passed. Motion at 17-18. Texas is gravely mistaken. The “exercise of the [legislative] authority,” even over federal elections or the manner by which presidential electors are selected, has to be “in accordance with the method” prescribed in a state’s constitution. Smiley v. Holm, 285 U.S. 355, 367 (1932); see also Ohio ex rel. Davis v. Hildebrant, 241 U.S. 565 (1916). State legislatures are, of course, also bound by substantive provisions in their state constitutions.

    Nothing in the Electors Clause permits a state legislature to enact a law “in defiance of provisions of [its] State’s constitution.” AIRC, 576 U.S. at 817-818. When this Court said that state legislatures “possess[] plenary authority,” it was referring to a legislature’s authority to choose a particular “manner” for selecting presidential electors: “by joint ballot,” or by “concurrence of the two houses,” or by “popular vote,” whether by “general ticket” or by congressional “districts.” McPherson v. Blacker, 146 U.S. 1, 25 (1892). As the Court has made clear, “[t]he legislative power is the supreme authority, except as limited by the constitution of the state.” Ibid.

    Taking a quote from McPherson out of context, Texas suggests that this plenary power permits a state legislature to nullify the will of the electorate and select its own electors. Motion at 17-18. There is no support in McPherson for such an extraordinarily antidemocratic proposition. Rather, in McPherson, this Court was merely quoting from a Senate report. McPherson, 146 U.S. at 35.

    Having directed the selection of presidential electors by popular vote in Pennsylvania, the General Assembly choosing its own slate of electors ex post would be unconstitutional. Kelly v. Commonwealth, 2020 WL 7018314, *5 (Pa., Nov. 28, 2020) (Wecht, J., concurring). “There is no basis in [state] law by which the courts may grant [a] request to ignore the results of an election and recommit the choice to the General Assembly to substitute its preferred slate of electors for the one chosen by a majority of Pennsylvania's voters.” Id. at 3. The “General Assembly ‘directed the manner’ of appointing presidential electors by popular vote nearly a century ago.” Ibid. (quoting U.S. CONST. art. II, § 1, cl. 2). There is nothing in the Election Code that permits the General Assembly to “circumvent [this method and] to substitute its preferred slate of electors for that ‘elected by the qualified electors of the Commonwealth.’” Id. at 4 (quoting 25 P.S. § 3191). For the General Assembly to “alter that ‘method of appointment’” would require new legislation, done “in accordance with constitutional mandates, including presentment of the legislation to the governor to sign or veto.”
    Ibid. (quoting McPherson, 146 U.S. at 25).

    There was no violation of the Commonwealth’s election law, and no violation of the Electors Clause here. Texas cannot succeed on the merits of this claim.

    https://www.supremecourt.gov/DocketP...%20v.FINAL.pdf
    See also PA's response in Republican Party of Pa. v. Boockvar, No. 20-542 (U.S.)
    https://www.supremecourt.gov/DocketP...20v.FINAL2.pdf
    We have long had death and taxes as the two standards of inevitability. But there are those who believe that death is the preferable of the two. "At least," as one man said, "there's one advantage about death; it doesn't get worse every time Congress meets."
    Erwin N. Griswold

    Taxes: Of life's two certainties, the only one for which you can get an automatic extension.
    Anonymous

  9. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Sonny Tufts View Post
    The PA Supreme Court's decision was based on the PA Constitution and on PA statutes. Texas's argument was based on the astonishing claim that in devising the rules for selecting electors a state legislature isn't bound by its state constitution. A similar argument involving the authority of state legislatures under the Article I Elections Clause had been previously rejected in Arizona State Legislature v. Arizona Independent Redistricting Commission, 576 U.S. 787 (2015), and the same reasoning would apply with respect to the Article II Electors Clause.

    TheTexan of course won't read it, but a far better legal analysis than Ken Paxton's mishmash of a petition is PA's response:

    See also PA's response in Republican Party of Pa. v. Boockvar, No. 20-542 (U.S.)
    https://www.supremecourt.gov/DocketP...20v.FINAL2.pdf
    Your post is so full of $#@! I don't even know where to start. I have neither the time nor inclination to reply constructively.

    If anyone other than Sonny needs information on this subject and would like his post refuted I would be glad to do so.
    It's all about taking action and not being lazy. So you do the work, whether it's fitness or whatever. It's about getting up, motivating yourself and just doing it.
    - Kim Kardashian

    Donald Trump / Crenshaw 2024!!!!

    My pronouns are he/him/his



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  11. #9
    Biden's margin of victory in PA was over 80,000 votes, not counting the 9,428 mail-in ballots that were received during the 3-day extended period. There is no case or controversy regarding this issue; it's moot.
    We have long had death and taxes as the two standards of inevitability. But there are those who believe that death is the preferable of the two. "At least," as one man said, "there's one advantage about death; it doesn't get worse every time Congress meets."
    Erwin N. Griswold

    Taxes: Of life's two certainties, the only one for which you can get an automatic extension.
    Anonymous

  12. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Sonny Tufts View Post
    Biden's margin of victory in PA was over 80,000 votes, not counting the 9,428 mail-in ballots that were received during the 3-day extended period. There is no case or controversy regarding this issue; it's moot.
    You're also ignoring the many other issues that happened in PA but that should be expected.
    It's all about taking action and not being lazy. So you do the work, whether it's fitness or whatever. It's about getting up, motivating yourself and just doing it.
    - Kim Kardashian

    Donald Trump / Crenshaw 2024!!!!

    My pronouns are he/him/his

  13. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by TheTexan View Post
    You're also ignoring the many other issues that happened in PA but that should be expected.
    Actually, I was addressing the only issue that is currently pending before the Supreme Court. I suspect you are ignorant of the fact that a petition for certiorari was filed last October after the Court refused to grant a stay of the PA Supreme Court's decision. The only issue before SCOTUS is the legality of the PA court's extending the time for receiving mail-in ballots.

    Given that it takes only four justices to grant certiorari, it's curious that the Court hasn't come to a decision yet, especially since four justices (Alito, Thomas, Kavanaugh, and Gorsuch) would have granted the stay. If you want to see everything that's been filed so far, go here: https://www.supremecourt.gov/docket/...ic/20-542.html

    As far as the OP is concerned, the issues Chief Justice Saylor was addressing were (a) the legality of Act 77's 180 day time limit on raising constitutional objections to the law (I agree with his concerns, and I can't see how such a provision is constitutional), and (b) whether Act 77's no-excuse mail-in voting provisions violated the PA constitution. As I understand it, that issue involves two different provisions of the PA constitution.

    As far as the filing of the PA state senators to which you linked is concerned, it addresses only the 3-day extension issue.

    As far as the alleged violations in PA that were set out in Paxton's application are concerned, PA's response is as follows (I previously cited its response to the three-day extension period issue):

    Texas offers statements about Pennsylvania law and Pennsylvania’s election administration. Befitting of Texas’s distance and unfamiliarity with either, those statements are littered with patently false allegations and conclusions.

    First, Texas asserts that the Secretary “abrogated” the mandatory signature verification requirement for absentee or mail-in ballots. Bill of Complaint at 14-15. This is untrue. See In re Nov. 3, 2020 Election, 240 A.3d 591, 610 (Pa. 2020) (Election Code does not authorize county election boards to reject mail-in ballots based on an analysis of a voter’s signature. “[A]t no time did the Code provide for challenges to ballot signatures.”). Far from usurping any legislative authority, the Pennsylvania Supreme Court refused “to rewrite a statute in order to supply terms which [we]re not present therein.” Id. at 14. A federal judge reached the same result. See In Donald Trump for President, Inc. v. Boockvar, 2020 WL 5997680, at *58 (W.D. Pa. Oct. 10, 2020) (“[T]he Election Code does not impose a signature-comparison requirement for mail-in and absentee ballots.”).

    Second, Texas alleges that certain county boards of elections did not grant poll-watchers access to the opening, counting, and recording of absentee and mailin ballots. Bill of Complaint at 16. This is also untrue. See In re Canvassing Observation, __ A.3d __, 2020 WL 6737895, *8-9 (Pa. 2020) (holding that state law requires candidate representatives to be in the room but the viewing distance is committed to the county boards, which, in that case, was reasonable); Trump for President, Inc. v. Sec’y of Pennsylvania, 2020 WL 7012522, at *8 (3d Cir. Nov. 27, 2020) (affirming dismissal of poll-watcher claim, in part, because the Trump Campaign “has already raised and lost most of these statelaw issues, and it cannot relitigate them here.”).

    Third, Texas asserts that certain counties “adopted [] differential standards favoring voters in Philadelphia and Allegheny Counties with the intent to favor former Vice President Biden.” Bill of Complaint at 17. In support of this false assertion, Texas cites to the complaint in Trump v. Boockvar, 4:20-cv-02078 (M.D. Pa. Nov. 18, 2020). What Texas neglects to mention is that this complaint was dismissed, see Trump v. Boockvar, 2020 WL 6821992 (M.D. Pa. Nov. 21, 2020), and that dismissal was affirmed by the Third Circuit because those charges were backed by neither specific allegations nor evidence, Trump for President, Inc. v. Sec’y of Pennsylvania, 2020 WL 7012522, at *8 (3d Cir. Nov. 27, 2020). Texas’s suggestion of a wide-ranging conspiracy is a fantasy.
    I'm not a PA attorney, and I don't intend to spend time researching PA law.
    We have long had death and taxes as the two standards of inevitability. But there are those who believe that death is the preferable of the two. "At least," as one man said, "there's one advantage about death; it doesn't get worse every time Congress meets."
    Erwin N. Griswold

    Taxes: Of life's two certainties, the only one for which you can get an automatic extension.
    Anonymous

  14. #12
    Initially, I was inclined to regard Sonny Tufts simply as some kind of contrarian presenting a reasonable argument for a different perspective. After watching him purposely ignore johnwk's question to him above, I now realize that is not the case at all.

  15. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Sonny Tufts View Post
    ... a few paragraphs of incoherent gibberish ...
    For the other issues I was referring to, see below document:

    https://www.texasattorneygeneral.gov...OTUSFiling.pdf

    Texas' case was appropriately dismissed based on standing, but the document itself is useful in that it summarizes pretty well the list of issues in the various states.

    Not that you're gonna read it, of course.
    It's all about taking action and not being lazy. So you do the work, whether it's fitness or whatever. It's about getting up, motivating yourself and just doing it.
    - Kim Kardashian

    Donald Trump / Crenshaw 2024!!!!

    My pronouns are he/him/his

  16. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by BSWPaulsen View Post
    Initially, I was inclined to regard Sonny Tufts simply as some kind of contrarian presenting a reasonable argument for a different perspective. After watching him purposely ignore johnwk's question to him above, I now realize that is not the case at all.
    I didn't realize I had a duty to respond to every question put to me on this site. If it'll make you happy, then: no, I don't agree that the PA no-excuse mail-in ballot law is unconstitutional, at least with respect to the PA constitution. Making an informed judgment on that issue would involve in-depth research into PA law, which I have neither the time nor the PA resources to pursue, and something I'd wager no one else on this thread has undertaken.

    Nor do I think the PA law was "a predictable vehicle for election fraud". Those who think so need to explain how the bipartisan group of legislators (including all of the Republican senators and 105 of 107 GOP representatives) who passed the bill (including the two senators who are now doing an about-face) missed that.
    We have long had death and taxes as the two standards of inevitability. But there are those who believe that death is the preferable of the two. "At least," as one man said, "there's one advantage about death; it doesn't get worse every time Congress meets."
    Erwin N. Griswold

    Taxes: Of life's two certainties, the only one for which you can get an automatic extension.
    Anonymous

  17. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Sonny Tufts View Post
    I didn't realize I had a duty to respond to every question put to me on this site. If it'll make you happy, then: no, I don't agree that the PA no-excuse mail-in ballot law is unconstitutional, at least with respect to the PA constitution. Making an informed judgment on that issue would involve in-depth research into PA law, which I have neither the time nor the PA resources to pursue, and something I'd wager no one else on this thread has undertaken.

    Nor do I think the PA law was "a predictable vehicle for election fraud". Those who think so need to explain how the bipartisan group of legislators (including all of the Republican senators and 105 of 107 GOP representatives) who passed the bill (including the two senators who are now doing an about-face) missed that.
    Obviously, you do not have to answer every question put to you, but it struck me as very odd that you entertained everything before you except him. Your effort in answering his question is much appreciated, and I gave you positive reputation for it.

  18. #16
    Man it's a good thing we have BSW around here to be the arbiter of all things on the up and up. Whew... Our own little fact checker almost, I'm so proud.
    "The issue is that you to define the best candidate solely based upon what they stand for." - CaptLouAlbano

    This is the mindset trying to take hold on RPF.

    "Kelly Thomas did this to himself." - FrankRep



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  20. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by belian78 View Post
    Man it's a good thing we have BSW around here to be the arbiter of all things on the up and up. Whew... Our own little fact checker almost, I'm so proud.
    It is like a shepherd looking after his flock or something.

  21. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Sonny Tufts View Post
    I didn't realize I had a duty to respond to every question put to me on this site. If it'll make you happy, then: no, I don't agree that the PA no-excuse mail-in ballot law is unconstitutional, at least with respect to the PA constitution.

    Well then, how about addressing what PA's Constitution actually states?


    .

    PA's Act of October 31, 2019, P.L. 552, No. 77, which allowed no-excuse ballots, is unconstitutional. Here is why!


    .

    Clause 1 of Article VII of PA’s Constitution declares:


    “Every citizen 21 years of age, possessing the following qualifications, shall be entitled to vote at all elections subject, however, to such laws requiring and regulating the registration of electors as the General Assembly may enact.”


    And, Section 14 of Article VII was enacted which is titled:


    § 14. Absentee voting.


    (a) The Legislature shall, by general law, provide a manner in which, and the time and place at which, qualified electors who may, on the occurrence of any election, be absent from the municipality of their residence,

    because their duties, occupation or business require them to be elsewhere or who, on the occurrence of any election,

    are unable to attend at their proper polling places because of illness or physical disability or who will not attend a polling place because of the observance of a religious holiday

    or who cannot vote because of election day duties, in the case of a county employee, may vote, and for the return and canvass of their votes in the election district in which they respectively reside.


    As anyone can see, Section 14 provides two, and only two ways by which a qualified elector may cast his or her vote in an election:


    (1) by submitting his or her vote in propria persona at the polling place on election day; and

    (2) by submitting an absentee ballot, but only if the qualified voter satisfies one of the conditions under which absentee voting is authorized as outlined above in “Absentee voting”.


    The Act of October 31, 2019, P.L. 552, No. 77, which legislatively attempts to fundamentally change and expand allowable conditions for Pennsylvania's "Absentee Voting" and permitting no-excuse mail-in voting without amending Pennsylvania’s Constitution, is a clear Violation of PA’s Constitution ___ Clause 1 of Article VII, § 14. Absentee voting.


    The Act of October 31, 2019, P.L. 552, No. 77 is a legislative attempt to fundamentally change Pennsylvania’s voting system, permitting no-excuse mail-in voting, without amending Pennsylvania’s Constitution!


    JWK

    Our socialist/fascist revolutionaries, which now control the Democrat Party Leadership, are known for accusing others of what they themselves are guilty of.



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