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Thread: Egg a day tied to lower risk of heart disease

  1. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    A balanced diet is the healthiest, meat is ood for you:

    A new study, published in the Journal of Epidemiology and Community Health, has found that certain food groups could affect the age at which the menopause starts.
    Researchers from the University of Leeds used data about the health and reproductive history of more than 14,150 women living in the UK. They were asked to complete a questionnaire about their diet, then the researchers followed up with them four years later.


    Out of the whole group, about 900 women between the ages of 40 and 65 had experienced the start of their menopause by the time of the follow up.
    When analysing their diets, the researchers found women who had a diet rich in oily fish and fresh legumes like chickpeas and lentils were more likely to have a delayed start to the menopause by an average of nearly three years.
    A higher intake of vitamin B6 and zinc were also linked with later menopause, and eating meat was associated with menopause arriving almost a year later than a vegetarian diet.
    In particular, childless women who ate more grapes and poultry reached menopause significantly later as well.
    Women who ate a lot of refined (white) pasta and rice were more likely to start the menopause one and a half years earlier, on average.

    More at: http://www.businessinsider.com/how-d...edium=referral

    That's what we were told, that idea comes from the same government food pyramid which told us dairy was healthy too, which we now know is not true. We have been lied to.

    Why would you think that eating a dead body is healthy? Especially if it came from the absolutely horrendous and unsanitary conditions that most meat comes from, where the animals are pumped full of antibiotics, because if they weren't, they'd all be sick, since they are standing knee-deep in feces, surrounded by flies and disease.
    “I have no doubt that it is a part of the destiny of the human race, in its gradual improvement, to leave off eating animals, as surely as the savage tribes have left off eating each other.”

    ― Henry David Thoreau



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  3. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by lilymc View Post
    That's what we were told, that idea comes from the same government food pyramid which told us dairy was healthy too, which we now know is not true. We have been lied to.

    Why would you think that eating a dead body is healthy? Especially if it came from the absolutely horrendous and unsanitary conditions that most meat comes from, where the animals are pumped full of antibiotics, because if they weren't, they'd all be sick, since they are standing knee-deep in feces, surrounded by flies and disease.
    The food pyramid is not a balanced diet, and certainly not what @Swordsmyth is talking about. The food pyramid elevates grains and carbs and derogates meat. Pretty much the opposite of what he was saying. Not bad for a straw man though.



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  5. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by lilymc View Post
    That's what we were told, that idea comes from the same government food pyramid which told us dairy was healthy too, which we now know is not true. We have been lied to.

    Why would you think that eating a dead body is healthy? Especially if it came from the absolutely horrendous and unsanitary conditions that most meat comes from, where the animals are pumped full of antibiotics, because if they weren't, they'd all be sick, since they are standing knee-deep in feces, surrounded by flies and disease.
    Man is an omnivore, GOD designed us to eat meat as well as plants, modern meat may be less healthy than it should be but it is still healthier than what many animals eat.

    If you read what I posted you will see that eating meat has been shown to have health benefits, not just in theory but in actual results.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  6. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by GunnyFreedom View Post
    The food pyramid is not a balanced diet, and certainly not what @Swordsmyth is talking about. The food pyramid elevates grains and carbs and derogates meat. Pretty much the opposite of what he was saying. Not bad for a straw man though.
    +Rep
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  7. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by lilymc View Post
    That's what we were told, that idea comes from the same government food pyramid which told us dairy was healthy too, which we now know is not true. We have been lied to.

    Why would you think that eating a dead body is healthy? Especially if it came from the absolutely horrendous and unsanitary conditions that most meat comes from, where the animals are pumped full of antibiotics, because if they weren't, they'd all be sick, since they are standing knee-deep in feces, surrounded by flies and disease.
    Also, if you are an evolutionist, it is pretty clear from out teeth and blood that we evolved from omnivores to be omnivores.

    Also, if you are a believer, then humans used to be vegetarian, then we fell, and then God required us to eat meat.

  8. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Man is an omnivore, GOD designed us to eat meat as well as plants, modern meat may be less healthy than it should be but it is still healthier than what many animals eat.

    If you read what I posted you will see that eating meat has been shown to have health benefits, not just in theory but in actual results.
    I did not see this before my last reply. GMTA! Out of ammo, will have to get you when I reload.

  9. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Man is an omnivore, GOD designed us to eat meat as well as plants, modern meat may be less healthy than it should be but it is still healthier than what many animals eat.

    If you read what I posted you will see that eating meat has been shown to have health benefits, not just in theory but in actual results.
    No, that is absolutely false. Genesis 1:29–30 clearly states that God originally created us all (animals and humans) as herbivores. God defined food in chapter 1 of the first book of the Bible to be fruits and vegetables and food from the ground, not meat! Meat eating did not come till much later, and only due to the depravity that God gave us over to in this fallen world
    “I have no doubt that it is a part of the destiny of the human race, in its gradual improvement, to leave off eating animals, as surely as the savage tribes have left off eating each other.”

    ― Henry David Thoreau

  10. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by GunnyFreedom View Post
    I did not see this before my last reply. GMTA! Out of ammo, will have to get you when I reload.
    Why give rep for a demonstrably false statement? God's original design is clear in Genesis 1, we were herbivores in the beginning. This is not even debatable, even mainstream meat eating Christian scholars will tell you that.
    “I have no doubt that it is a part of the destiny of the human race, in its gradual improvement, to leave off eating animals, as surely as the savage tribes have left off eating each other.”

    ― Henry David Thoreau

  11. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by GunnyFreedom View Post
    The food pyramid is not a balanced diet, and certainly not what @Swordsmyth is talking about. The food pyramid elevates grains and carbs and derogates meat. Pretty much the opposite of what he was saying. Not bad for a straw man though.
    I didn't say that that was his argument, I was merely saying that his idea that meat is healthy comes from the lie we've been told, which was in that food pyramid.
    “I have no doubt that it is a part of the destiny of the human race, in its gradual improvement, to leave off eating animals, as surely as the savage tribes have left off eating each other.”

    ― Henry David Thoreau

  12. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by lilymc View Post
    No, that is absolutely false. Genesis 1:29–30 clearly states that God originally created us all (animals and humans) as herbivores. God defined food in chapter 1 of the first book of the Bible to be fruits and vegetables and food from the ground, not meat! Meat eating did not come till much later, and only due to the depravity that God gave us over to in this fallen world
    29 And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat.
    30 And to every beast of the earth, and to every fowl of the air, and to every thing that creepeth upon the earth, wherein there is life, I have given every green herb for meat: and it was so.

    But in Genesis 4 they were already keeping flocks and GOD approved:


    4 And Abel, he also brought of the firstlings of his flock and of the fat thereof. And the LORD had respect unto Abel and to his offering:

    GOD designed man to be able to eat meat after the fall, he foresaw the possibility and possibly would have sent Adam and Eve out of the garden eventually after teaching them more.

    In any case we are living in the post-flood world and GOD told Noah in chapter 9:


    3 Every moving thing that liveth shall be meat for you; even as the green herb have I given you all things.

    Clearly by then something had changed and meat was necessary.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment



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  14. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    29 And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat.
    30 And to every beast of the earth, and to every fowl of the air, and to every thing that creepeth upon the earth, wherein there is life, I have given every green herb for meat: and it was so.

    But in Genesis 4 they were already keeping flocks and GOD approved:


    4 And Abel, he also brought of the firstlings of his flock and of the fat thereof. And the LORD had respect unto Abel and to his offering:

    GOD designed man to be able to eat meat after the fall, he foresaw the possibility and possibly would have sent Adam and Eve out of the garden eventually after teaching them more.

    In any case we are living in the post-flood world and GOD told Noah in chapter 9:


    3 Every moving thing that liveth shall be meat for you; even as the green herb have I given you all things.

    Clearly by then something had changed and meat was necessary.
    I hope you're not thinking that the word meat in Genesis 1 means animal flesh. The word "meat" originally meant food, and that is why in most translations it says food. God's heart is and always has been for peace and harmony among all living beings, love, gentleness, respect for life. Not a brutal, selfish, bloody slaughterhouse in paradise. So to even imply otherwise is absurd.

    Keeping sheep doesn't mean that they're killing and eating them. If that's what you think, then you are adding on to the text. God did not permit meat eating until after the flood, and even that is something that can be interpreted in different ways that, but that's another topic.
    “I have no doubt that it is a part of the destiny of the human race, in its gradual improvement, to leave off eating animals, as surely as the savage tribes have left off eating each other.”

    ― Henry David Thoreau

  15. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by lilymc View Post
    I didn't say that that was his argument, I was merely saying that his idea that meat is healthy comes from the lie we've been told, which was in that food pyramid.
    No, now you are backpedaling. You clearly claimed that his idea of a balanced diet "that idea comes from the same government food pyramid which told us dairy was healthy too, which we now know is not true. We have been lied to." You clearly implied that he took his ideas from the food pyramid, and claimed that their being wrong about dairy negated his claim about a balanced diet.

    If you are going to use sophistry, then own up to it. If you are not going to own up to it, then don't use sophistry. Integrity may be hard at first, but it us absolutely worth it.

  16. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by lilymc View Post
    Why give rep for a demonstrably false statement? God's original design is clear in Genesis 1, we were herbivores in the beginning. This is not even debatable, even mainstream meat eating Christian scholars will tell you that.
    Swordsmyth was right, it was after the flood that God commanded humans to eat meat. Specifically Genesis 9:3 “Every moving thing that is alive shall be food for you;

    1 And God blessed Noah and his sons and said to them, “Be fruitful and multiply, and fill the earth. 2 “The fear of you and the terror of you will be on every beast of the earth and on every bird of the sky; with everything that creeps on the ground, and all the fish of the sea, into your hand they are given. 3 “Every moving thing that is alive shall be food for you; I give all to you, as I gave the green plant. 4 “Only you shall not eat flesh with its life, that is, its blood. 5 “Surely I will require your lifeblood; from every beast I will require it. And from every man, from every man’s brother I will require the life of man. [NASB]

  17. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by lilymc View Post
    I hope you're not thinking that the word meat in Genesis 1 means animal flesh. The word "meat" originally meant food, and that is why in most translations it says food. God's heart is and always has been for peace and harmony among all living beings, love, gentleness, respect for life. Not a brutal, selfish, bloody slaughterhouse in paradise. So to even imply otherwise is absurd.

    Keeping sheep doesn't mean that they're killing and eating them. If that's what you think, then you are adding on to the text. God did not permit meat eating until after the flood, and even that is something that can be interpreted in different ways that, but that's another topic.
    We are not the ones twisting scripture to suit our desires. That would be you.

  18. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by GunnyFreedom View Post
    No, now you are backpedaling. You clearly claimed that his idea of a balanced diet "that idea comes from the same government food pyramid which told us dairy was healthy too, which we now know is not true. We have been lied to." You clearly implied that he took his ideas from the food pyramid, and claimed that their being wrong about dairy negated his claim about a balanced diet.

    If you are going to use sophistry, then own up to it. If you are not going to own up to it, then don't use sophistry. Integrity may be hard at first, but it us absolutely worth it.
    Oh my gosh, you're being so needlessly argumentative. Let me say this again, in a different way. My point was that the idea that meat is healthy comes from a lie.... A lie we've been told for many, many years. That's really the bottom line. I also said that that lie was in the government food pyramid, which now pretty much everyone knows is a joke. So what? Do you disagree with that?

    Now if you want to extrapolate that into this, that or the other, go ahead, but the main point was that it is a long-standing lie. It's clear to me that you are just being argumentative and accusatory… Because for some reason this issue is very, very personal for you.
    “I have no doubt that it is a part of the destiny of the human race, in its gradual improvement, to leave off eating animals, as surely as the savage tribes have left off eating each other.”

    ― Henry David Thoreau

  19. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by GunnyFreedom View Post
    We are not the ones twisting scripture to suit our desires. That would be you.
    Where? If you're going to make a claim, be specific. Are you denying that the word 'meat' used in the King James version simply means food?
    “I have no doubt that it is a part of the destiny of the human race, in its gradual improvement, to leave off eating animals, as surely as the savage tribes have left off eating each other.”

    ― Henry David Thoreau

  20. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by GunnyFreedom View Post
    We are not the ones twisting scripture to suit our desires. That would be you.
    Desires? That's ironic, because it seems to me that many Christians are twisting God's heart and character, all because of their fleshly desires for things they love to eat and can't ever imagine giving up… (putting their stomach and desires above all else) even if it means supporting cruelty, torture and the animal industries' complete disregard for God's creation.
    “I have no doubt that it is a part of the destiny of the human race, in its gradual improvement, to leave off eating animals, as surely as the savage tribes have left off eating each other.”

    ― Henry David Thoreau

  21. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by GunnyFreedom View Post
    Swordsmyth was right, it was after the flood that God commanded humans to eat meat. Specifically Genesis 9:3 “Every moving thing that is alive shall be food for you;
    That's not what I was objecting to in that post. I was objecting to his claim that God designed us to be omnivores. It could be debated that we evolved to be omnivores (I'm not saying I believe that, I'm saying that the argument could be made)...but the claim that we were originally designed to be omnivores is what I was arguing against.

    BTW, Swordsmyth is more than capable of handling himself. I don't want to be rude but it's not necessary for you to reply for him. Especially if you misunderstand my points and what I'm arguing.
    “I have no doubt that it is a part of the destiny of the human race, in its gradual improvement, to leave off eating animals, as surely as the savage tribes have left off eating each other.”

    ― Henry David Thoreau



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  23. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by lilymc View Post
    I hope you're not thinking that the word meat in Genesis 1 means animal flesh. The word "meat" originally meant food, and that is why in most translations it says food. God's heart is and always has been for peace and harmony among all living beings, love, gentleness, respect for life. Not a brutal, selfish, bloody slaughterhouse in paradise. So to even imply otherwise is absurd.

    Keeping sheep doesn't mean that they're killing and eating them. If that's what you think, then you are adding on to the text. God did not permit meat eating until after the flood, and even that is something that can be interpreted in different ways that, but that's another topic.
    I know about "meat" meaning food but if they were sacrificing the animals they were eating them.
    In any case after the flood GOD said:

    3 Every moving thing that liveth shall be meat for you; even as the green herb have I given you all things.(Genesis 9)

    The "even as" is important, it means meat isn't a secondary food source it is equal to plants.

    If GOD did't want us to eat meat Christ wouldn't have fed the multitudes fish.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  24. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by lilymc View Post
    That's not what I was objecting to in that post. I was objecting to his claim that God designed us to be omnivores. It could be debated that we evolved to be omnivores (I'm not saying I believe that, I'm saying that the argument could be made)...but the claim that we were originally designed to be omnivores is what I was arguing against.

    BTW, Swordsmyth is more than capable of handling himself. I don't want to be rude but it's not necessary for you to reply for him. Especially if you misunderstand my points and what I'm arguing.
    GOD did design us to be omnivores, he may have switched it off in the garden but he switched it on after the fall, at the very least he switched it on after the flood.
    GOD is capable of anticipating necessary changes and preparing for them.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  25. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by lilymc View Post
    Oh my gosh, you're being so needlessly argumentative. Let me say this again, in a different way. My point was that the idea that meat is healthy comes from a lie.... A lie we've been told for many, many years. That's really the bottom line. I also said that that lie was in the government food pyramid, which now pretty much everyone knows is a joke. So what? Do you disagree with that?

    Now if you want to extrapolate that into this, that or the other, go ahead, but the main point was that it is a long-standing lie. It's clear to me that you are just being argumentative and accusatory… Because for some reason this issue is very, very personal for you.
    People knew meat was healthy for centuries before there was a food pyramid and the study I linked to proves it.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  26. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    I know about "meat" meaning food but if they were sacrificing the animals they were eating them.
    In any case after the flood GOD said:

    3 Every moving thing that liveth shall be meat for you; even as the green herb have I given you all things.(Genesis 9)

    The "even as" is important, it means meat isn't a secondary food source it is equal to plants.

    If GOD did't want us to eat meat Christ wouldn't have fed the multitudes fish.
    What pre-flood Scriptures are you referring to in your claim that they were sacrificing animals?

    Genesis 9 has a few different interpretations, but that could be a topic in and of itself.

    God permits many things in this fallen world that he does not like and were never part of his original design/intent. Divorce, for example. Polygamy. And many other things.

    Here are some things that can't be denied:

    1) God's original design was for us to be herbivores and live in peace and harmony with the animals.

    2) In the end, that paradise that we ruined will be restored, and once again we will have peace and harmony and nonviolence that was God's original intent.

    3) God commands us throughout the Bible to be merciful, to treat others the way we would like to be treated.

    4) God created the animals, loves the animals, and there are numerous scriptures that show he cares about their well-being and their lives.

    5) In this day and age, eating meat and other animal products is in nearly all cases not done for survival, it is not necessary, it is done purely out of habit/tradition/ to satisfy our personal desires.

    I've asked this before, but I'll ask it again. In light of those things…What should Christians aim for, God's perfect will, or what God tolerates in this corrupt, fallen world? Please answer that one honestly.

    If we can honor God by aiming for his perfect will, why wouldn't we? If we can live without causing harm to other beings, why wouldn't we?
    “I have no doubt that it is a part of the destiny of the human race, in its gradual improvement, to leave off eating animals, as surely as the savage tribes have left off eating each other.”

    ― Henry David Thoreau

  27. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    GOD did design us to be omnivores, he may have switched it off in the garden but he switched it on after the fall, at the very least he switched it on after the flood.
    GOD is capable of anticipating necessary changes and preparing for them.
    No, that is contradictory and nonsensical. God did not design us to be omnivores when the first chapter of the first book of the Bible clearly states that our original diet and way of living was plant-based, peaceful and non-violent.

    It has been said that the fallen angels (written about in Genesis 6 and in several extra-biblical texts) taught man to eat animal flesh. If that is true, then the origin of meat eating is demonic.

    Think about this…. Why would God design creations that he loves only to be brutally and selfishly eaten by another one of his creations? If God originally designed animals to be food, why would he create them with the ability to think, feel, love, have families and enjoy life? Do you really think that a loving God would create beings with the ability to feel pain and suffering… if he meant for them to be killed as food? That would be sadistic, completely cruel and devilish.

    No, we were not originally created as omnivores. Genesis 1 makes that perfectly clear.
    “I have no doubt that it is a part of the destiny of the human race, in its gradual improvement, to leave off eating animals, as surely as the savage tribes have left off eating each other.”

    ― Henry David Thoreau

  28. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by lilymc View Post
    What pre-flood Scriptures are you referring to in your claim that they were sacrificing animals?
    Genesis 4

    3 And in process of time it came to pass, that Cain brought of the fruit of the ground an offering unto the LORD.

    4 And Abel, he also brought of the firstlings of his flock and of the fat thereof. And the LORD had respect unto Abel and to his offering:

    5 But unto Cain and to his offering he had not respect. And Cain was very wroth, and his countenance fell.


    Please note that Able is offering "the fat thereof" that means he has killed the animal and separated the fat from the meat.

    GOD also taught Adam and eve to use animal hides for clothing immediately after the fall:
    Genesis 3

    21 Unto Adam also and to his wife did the LORD God make coats of skins, and clothed them.





    Quote Originally Posted by lilymc View Post
    Genesis 9 has a few different interpretations, but that could be a topic in and of itself.

    God permits many things in this fallen world that he does not like and were never part of his original design/intent. Divorce, for example. Polygamy. And many other things.

    Here are some things that can't be denied:

    1) God's original design was for us to be herbivores and live in peace and harmony with the animals.

    2) In the end, that paradise that we ruined will be restored, and once again we will have peace and harmony and nonviolence that was God's original intent.

    3) God commands us throughout the Bible to be merciful, to treat others the way we would like to be treated.

    4) God created the animals, loves the animals, and there are numerous scriptures that show he cares about their well-being and their lives.

    5) In this day and age, eating meat and other animal products is in nearly all cases not done for survival, it is not necessary, it is done purely out of habit/tradition/ to satisfy our personal desires.

    I've asked this before, but I'll ask it again. In light of those things…What should Christians aim for, God's perfect will, or what God tolerates in this corrupt, fallen world? Please answer that one honestly.

    If we can honor God by aiming for his perfect will, why wouldn't we? If we can live without causing harm to other beings, why wouldn't we?
    When GOD tells me that meat is an equal food to plants (after the flood for sure) and thousands of years of experience tell us that it is important for our health I will follow his will and include it in my diet.
    Perhaps in heaven we will all be given the power to create meat without killing a living animal as Christ did when he fed the multitudes, in the mean time I have to kill animals to get the meat I need.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  29. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    People knew meat was healthy for centuries before there was a food pyramid and the study I linked to proves it.
    That is one study, I could show you hundreds of studies that show meat is linked to numerous health problems. Also keep in mind that many of those "studies" which say animal products are healthy are funded by those very industries.

    Also, it should be pointed out that the protein or other nutrients that you can get from animal flesh you can also get from much healthier, cruelty-free plant-based foods.

    In fact, that is where the dead animal got his protein from… Plants. So you're getting those nutrients second-hand. Why not just cut out the middleman and go straight to the original source? I know the answer to that. Because we all grew up eating hamburgers, steaks, etc.… And we love those things, and it is extremely hard – incomprehensible, even – to consider giving those things up. But actually, it is not hard at all when you have that lightbulb "aha" moment after seeing the reality of what the animals go through. The horror of it, to the point of it being almost diabolical. And what for? Not for survival, but to satisfy our selfish personal desires.
    “I have no doubt that it is a part of the destiny of the human race, in its gradual improvement, to leave off eating animals, as surely as the savage tribes have left off eating each other.”

    ― Henry David Thoreau

  30. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by lilymc View Post
    No, that is contradictory and nonsensical. God did not design us to be omnivores when the first chapter of the first book of the Bible clearly states that our original diet and way of living was plant-based, peaceful and non-violent.
    Read what I said carefully, GOD built us so that he could turn on omnivorousness when conditions required it, it may have been switched off at first but it was switched on later.

    Quote Originally Posted by lilymc View Post
    It has been said that the fallen angels (written about in Genesis 6 and in several extra-biblical texts) taught man to eat animal flesh. If that is true, then the origin of meat eating is demonic.
    Genesis 6 may or may not deal with fallen angels but it doesn't deal with meat eating.
    I reject any extra-biblical texts that claim fallen angels taught men to eat meat for the following reasons:
    1 GOD said to eat meat in Genesis 9
    2 Christ fed the multitudes fish
    3 GOD commanded the Israelites to perform many animal sacrifices and told them which animals they could and couldn't eat

    GOD wouldn't have anything to do with something demonic.

    Quote Originally Posted by lilymc View Post
    Think about this…. Why would God design creations that he loves only to be brutally and selfishly eaten by another one of his creations? If God originally designed animals to be food, why would he create them with the ability to think, feel, love, have families and enjoy life? Do you really think that a loving God would create beings with the ability to feel pain and suffering… if he meant for them to be killed as food? That would be sadistic, completely cruel and devilish.

    No, we were not originally created as omnivores. Genesis 1 makes that perfectly clear.
    GOD created all his creatures including man to be able to deal with the fallen world, all of the drawbacks of the fallen world will be recompensed to those humans and animals that make it to heaven with an increase of blessings to compensate for what they have suffered, in the mean time he specifically authorized man to eat meat to be healthy.
    Last edited by Swordsmyth; 05-23-2018 at 10:53 PM.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment



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  32. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by lilymc View Post
    That is one study, I could show you hundreds of studies that show meat is linked to numerous health problems. Also keep in mind that many of those "studies" which say animal products are healthy are funded by those very industries.

    Also, it should be pointed out that the protein or other nutrients that you can get from animal flesh you can also get from much healthier, cruelty-free plant-based foods.

    In fact, that is where the dead animal got his protein from… Plants. So you're getting those nutrients second-hand. Why not just cut out the middleman and go straight to the original source? I know the answer to that. Because we all grew up eating hamburgers, steaks, etc.… And we love those things, and it is extremely hard – incomprehensible, even – to consider giving those things up. But actually, it is not hard at all when you have that lightbulb "aha" moment after seeing the reality of what the animals go through. The horror of it, to the point of it being almost diabolical. And what for? Not for survival, but to satisfy our selfish personal desires.
    The animals that turned plants into those proteins are built differently than people, we can't produce the same proteins from the same plants.
    Not everything that is in meat can be found in plants but even if it could be some of it can only be found in obscure mushrooms and other rare plants that can't be realistically grown in sufficient quantities to keep everyone healthy.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  33. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Genesis 4

    3 And in process of time it came to pass, that Cain brought of the fruit of the ground an offering unto the LORD.

    4 And Abel, he also brought of the firstlings of his flock and of the fat thereof. And the LORD had respect unto Abel and to his offering:

    5 But unto Cain and to his offering he had not respect. And Cain was very wroth, and his countenance fell.


    Please note that Able is offering "the fat thereof" that means he has killed the animal and separated the fat from the meat.

    GOD also taught Adam and eve to use animal hides for clothing immediately after the fall:
    Genesis 3

    21 Unto Adam also and to his wife did the LORD God make coats of skins, and clothed them.


    When GOD tells me that meat is an equal food to plants (after the flood for sure) and thousands of years of experience tell us that it is important for our health I will follow his will and include it in my diet.
    Perhaps in heaven we will all be given the power to create meat without killing a living animal as Christ did when he fed the multitudes, in the mean time I have to kill animals to get the meat I need.

    Do you really believe that God would endorse killing and meat-eating shortly after saying the exact opposite? God does not change, if He designed us to live in peace and harmony and nonviolence… Why assume that all the sudden he did a complete turnaround?

    First of all, it was an offering or gift, not quite the same thing as the animal sacrifices you have mind.

    Secondly, the word that you are hinging your entire argument on, the word translated as "fat", does not automatically mean what you (and many others who grew up eating meat) assume it means. I'm going to post an excerpt from an article on this passage, and I will bold some of the pertinent parts.


    However, some early Christians such as the Montanists apparently thought Abel offered the dairy products of his flock:

    In the second century the African Montanists were sometimes called the "Artotyrites" because they added cheese, instead of wine, to the bread in the Eucharist on the ground that the Aquarii, and first men offered the fruits both of the earth and of their flocks (Gen. iv. 3, 4). http://www.wpl.lib.oh.us/AntiSaloon/print/wine.html

    Josephus says Abel offered milk:

    They had resolved to sacrifice to God. Now Cain brought the fruits of the earth, and of his husbandry; but Abel brought milk, and the first-fruits of his flocks: but God was more delighted with the latter oblation,
    http://www.interhack.net/projects/li...jews/b1c2.html

    There's even some memory of the tradition that Abel offered milk in the mideaval Golden Legend of Jacobus de Voragine.

    The Hebrew of the Old Testament was originally without vowels. The vowel marks were added at a later time. The particular word render "fat" in the account of Cain and Abel (there are a number of different Hebrew words that mean "fat") is spelled the same as the word for milk and curds. Only the vowels are different. The present Hebrew vowel system didn't come into use until about the ninth or tenth century AD. In fact, it seems likely that when Genesis was written that there was no difference between khay'-leb and kheh'-leb (both of which are spelled cheth - lamed - beth). Both clearly evolved from the same word, and Genesis being one of the oldest Hebrew works, it may be that there was no difference in pronunciation at that time.

    One way the passage on Cain and Abel may be rendered is:

    And she gives birth to his brother, even Abel. And Abel is feeding a flock, and Cain was a worker of the earth. And it comes to pass at the end of the season that Cain brings from the fruit of the earth a present to the Lord; and Abel, he has brought, he also, from the female firstlings of his flock, namely from their milk (or possibly curds or milkings); and the Lord looks unto Abel and unto his present. Gen. 4:2-4

    The Hebrew word rendered "and" in many translations here most likely means "namely" (This is an example of "hendiadys"). The Septuagint, in the form that it's come down to us, has it that Abel offered from his "fat ones". The point being that Abel offered from his best, while Cain from the worst part of his crop. This is especially clear since we also read in the Septuagint that the Lord said

    "Hast thou not sinned if thou hast brought it rightly, but not rightly divided it? be still, to thee shall be his submission, and thou shalt rule over him." Gen. 4:7 LXX.

    Again, we need to trust that God does not change. And God is, and always has been, love, mercy, selflessness… Do those things go along with exploitation, brutal violence, and slaughter for the sake of our fleshly desires? No.

    There is no need to assume that Abel offered God a dead lamb. That goes against the very character of God – as loving and merciful, the Good shepherd who lays his life down for his sheep… Not the other way around.
    “I have no doubt that it is a part of the destiny of the human race, in its gradual improvement, to leave off eating animals, as surely as the savage tribes have left off eating each other.”

    ― Henry David Thoreau

  34. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by lilymc View Post
    Do you really believe that God would endorse killing and meat-eating shortly after saying the exact opposite? God does not change, if He designed us to live in peace and harmony and nonviolence… Why assume that all the sudden he did a complete turnaround?

    First of all, it was an offering or gift, not quite the same thing as the animal sacrifices you have mind.

    Secondly, the word that you are hinging your entire argument on, the word translated as "fat", does not automatically mean what you (and many others who grew up eating meat) assume it means. I'm going to post an excerpt from an article on this passage, and I will bold some of the pertinent parts.
    However, some early Christians such as the Montanists apparently thought Abel offered the dairy products of his flock:

    In the second century the African Montanists were sometimes called the "Artotyrites" because they added cheese, instead of wine, to the bread in the Eucharist on the ground that the Aquarii, and first men offered the fruits both of the earth and of their flocks (Gen. iv. 3, 4). http://www.wpl.lib.oh.us/AntiSaloon/print/wine.html

    Josephus says Abel offered milk:

    They had resolved to sacrifice to God. Now Cain brought the fruits of the earth, and of his husbandry; but Abel brought milk, and the first-fruits of his flocks: but God was more delighted with the latter oblation,
    http://www.interhack.net/projects/li...jews/b1c2.html

    There's even some memory of the tradition that Abel offered milk in the mideaval Golden Legend of Jacobus de Voragine.

    The Hebrew of the Old Testament was originally without vowels. The vowel marks were added at a later time. The particular word render "fat" in the account of Cain and Abel (there are a number of different Hebrew words that mean "fat") is spelled the same as the word for milk and curds. Only the vowels are different. The present Hebrew vowel system didn't come into use until about the ninth or tenth century AD. In fact, it seems likely that when Genesis was written that there was no difference between khay'-leb and kheh'-leb (both of which are spelled cheth - lamed - beth). Both clearly evolved from the same word, and Genesis being one of the oldest Hebrew works, it may be that there was no difference in pronunciation at that time.

    One way the passage on Cain and Abel may be rendered is:

    And she gives birth to his brother, even Abel. And Abel is feeding a flock, and Cain was a worker of the earth. And it comes to pass at the end of the season that Cain brings from the fruit of the earth a present to the Lord; and Abel, he has brought, he also, from the female firstlings of his flock, namely from their milk (or possibly curds or milkings); and the Lord looks unto Abel and unto his present. Gen. 4:2-4

    The Hebrew word rendered "and" in many translations here most likely means "namely" (This is an example of "hendiadys"). The Septuagint, in the form that it's come down to us, has it that Abel offered from his "fat ones". The point being that Abel offered from his best, while Cain from the worst part of his crop. This is especially clear since we also read in the Septuagint that the Lord said

    "Hast thou not sinned if thou hast brought it rightly, but not rightly divided it? be still, to thee shall be his submission, and thou shalt rule over him." Gen. 4:7 LXX.

    Again, we need to trust that God does not change. And God is, and always has been, love, mercy, selflessness… Do those things go along with exploitation, brutal violence, and slaughter for the sake of our fleshly desires? No.

    There is no need to assume that Abel offered God a dead lamb. That goes against the very character of God – as loving and merciful, the Good shepherd who lays his life down for his sheep… Not the other way around.
    In the first place Able offered the firstlings of his flock along with the fat, in the second GOD didn't change, conditions changed after the fall, even if you think that Adam and Eve and their children weren't eating meat and using animal hides for clothing (like GOD showed them immediately after sending them out of the garden) conditions DID change after the flood and GOD endorsed eating meat and later commanded many different kinds of animal sacrifices, Christ fed the people fish in the New Testament. (He also helped Peter to catch and kill living fish)
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  35. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by lilymc View Post
    Do you really believe that God would endorse killing and meat-eating shortly after saying the exact opposite? God does not change, if He designed us to live in peace and harmony and nonviolence… Why assume that all the sudden he did a complete turnaround?

    First of all, it was an offering or gift, not quite the same thing as the animal sacrifices you have mind.

    Secondly, the word that you are hinging your entire argument on, the word translated as "fat", does not automatically mean what you (and many others who grew up eating meat) assume it means. I'm going to post an excerpt from an article on this passage, and I will bold some of the pertinent parts.

    However, some early Christians such as the Montanists apparently thought Abel offered the dairy products of his flock:

    In the second century the African Montanists were sometimes called the "Artotyrites" because they added cheese, instead of wine, to the bread in the Eucharist on the ground that the Aquarii, and first men offered the fruits both of the earth and of their flocks (Gen. iv. 3, 4). http://www.wpl.lib.oh.us/AntiSaloon/print/wine.html

    Josephus says Abel offered milk:

    They had resolved to sacrifice to God. Now Cain brought the fruits of the earth, and of his husbandry; but Abel brought milk, and the first-fruits of his flocks: but God was more delighted with the latter oblation,
    http://www.interhack.net/projects/li...jews/b1c2.html

    There's even some memory of the tradition that Abel offered milk in the mideaval Golden Legend of Jacobus de Voragine.

    The Hebrew of the Old Testament was originally without vowels. The vowel marks were added at a later time. The particular word render "fat" in the account of Cain and Abel (there are a number of different Hebrew words that mean "fat") is spelled the same as the word for milk and curds. Only the vowels are different. The present Hebrew vowel system didn't come into use until about the ninth or tenth century AD. In fact, it seems likely that when Genesis was written that there was no difference between khay'-leb and kheh'-leb (both of which are spelled cheth - lamed - beth). Both clearly evolved from the same word, and Genesis being one of the oldest Hebrew works, it may be that there was no difference in pronunciation at that time.

    One way the passage on Cain and Abel may be rendered is:

    And she gives birth to his brother, even Abel. And Abel is feeding a flock, and Cain was a worker of the earth. And it comes to pass at the end of the season that Cain brings from the fruit of the earth a present to the Lord; and Abel, he has brought, he also, from the female firstlings of his flock, namely from their milk (or possibly curds or milkings); and the Lord looks unto Abel and unto his present. Gen. 4:2-4

    The Hebrew word rendered "and" in many translations here most likely means "namely" (This is an example of "hendiadys"). The Septuagint, in the form that it's come down to us, has it that Abel offered from his "fat ones". The point being that Abel offered from his best, while Cain from the worst part of his crop. This is especially clear since we also read in the Septuagint that the Lord said

    "Hast thou not sinned if thou hast brought it rightly, but not rightly divided it? be still, to thee shall be his submission, and thou shalt rule over him." Gen. 4:7 LXX.

    Again, we need to trust that God does not change. And God is, and always has been, love, mercy, selflessness… Do those things go along with exploitation, brutal violence, and slaughter for the sake of our fleshly desires? No.

    There is no need to assume that Abel offered God a dead lamb. That goes against the very character of God – as loving and merciful, the Good shepherd who lays his life down for his sheep… Not the other way around.
    Lily, the Montanists were heretics and their heresy (Montanism) has been denounced by the entire Christian world for centuries. https://orthodoxwiki.org/Montanism
    Quote Originally Posted by Torchbearer
    what works can never be discussed online. there is only one language the government understands, and until the people start speaking it by the magazine full... things will remain the same.
    Hear/buy my music here "government is the enemy of liberty"-RP Support me on Patreon here Ephesians 6:12

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