New York Lawmakers look at splitting the State into two states.

[oyarde]

Would upstate New York elect Demoncrats?
Last I heard, upstate was Republican country.

Since about the 60's new england Pubs are more left than an Indiana moderate Pub

[TomtheTinker]

Since about the 60's new england Pubs are more left than an Indiana moderate Pub

Upstate New Yorkers are more similar to rust belt Republicans than New England. Although their is certainly a hint of NE influence.

[parocks]

In New York state government news, the topic of splitting the state into separate upstate and downstate entities has popped up again at the Capitol. A lawmaker representing a suburban-rural district in eastern New York this week proposed legislation that would authorize a study into the up-front and long-term costs of separating the upstate and downstate regions into two states, along with the legal implications and economic impact.
Meanwhile, lawmakers will return to Albany on Tuesday for a three-day workweek, their first since the Legislature convened Jan. 9 for its 2019 session.

More at: https://www.recordonline.com/news/20...-into-2-states

This could be VERY good.

I like it. There are a lot of states that can be broken up into populous tiny city and suburbs vs rural area.

"California is so big, why does it only have 2 senators? If we were able to break California up into multiple states, the people of what is now California could have more senators, more representation"

[fcreature]

I wish. Don't tease me.

[parocks]

Two more Democrat Senators? Other states that are huge and should be broken up first?

GOP could get at least 1 senator for upstate NY. If they were able to do so, it's a wash. And Trump, or whoever the GOP nominee is, whatever year we're talking about, could win upstate NY.

[Brian4Liberty]

GOP could get at least 1 senator for upstate NY. If they were able to do so, it's a wash. And Trump, or whoever the GOP nominee is, whatever year we're talking about, could win upstate NY.

I am just guessing that there would still be a city in upstate NY that would expand with leftist Democrats, and since it would be such a small state, it wouldn’t take much for them to control the entire new state. Call me pessimistic.

California would be prime for breaking up, but all of the proposals break it up are by major urban centers. Thus each smaller state would have an urban areas and would still be dominated by leftists.

[Philhelm]

This is a good example of one that could work . There is no real legitimate reason for anyone to oppose it .

Loss of otherwise guaranteed electoral votes for Democrats.

[fcreature]

I am just guessing that there would still be a city in upstate NY that would expand with leftist Democrats, and since it would be such a small state, it wouldn’t take much for them to control the entire new state. Call me pessimistic.

California would be prime for breaking up, but all of the proposals break it up are by major urban centers. Thus each smaller state would have an urban areas and would still be dominated by leftists.

So the people of Upstate NY should forever be under the tyrannical rule of NYC because of a hypothetical impact on national elections? This has every day, real-world consequences for those of us who are here. It's not a game on a political map.

Upstate would be a red state. We already are. Sure, our elected officials may be RINOs, but how is that different than 95%+ of Republican representatives?

[Brian4Liberty]

So the people of Upstate NY should forever be under the tyrannical rule of NYC because of a hypothetical impact on national elections? This has every day, real-world consequences for those of us who are here. It's not a game on a political map.

Upstate would be a red state. We already are. Sure, our elected officials may be RINOs, but how is that different than 95%+ of Republican representatives?

Ah feel your pain... how small shall we make all of the new states so that we can get actually representation in State/Fed government?

[fcreature]

Ah feel your pain... how small shall we make all of the new states so that we can get actually representation in State/Fed government?

There are not many states in similiar circumstances. New York and California are the only two I can think of. Are there any others?

[parocks]

Maybe just let NYC go and be New York. Then extend Pennsylvania North, While extending Vermont, Massachusetts, Connecticut West.

This isn't the first time that changing the states has been discussed. I really enjoy this "change the states" game, and I'll jump in.

I wouldn't extend those states out. "Upstate New York" has a better chance of giving its electoral votes to the GOP if it isn't lumped in with Mass, CT, VT.

Here are the changes that should be made, that I like, at least.

New York - split New York into New York, and Upstate New York. That's how they see themselves anyway, for the most part.

New York will = New York City, Long Island, and Westchester county. Everything else = Upstate New York.

New York will almost always = 2 Dem Senators, and Dem President.
Upstate New York could give 2 GOP Senators, possibly, canceling out New York. Or 1 each, which make it a wash. Upstate New York will vote GOP Pres on occasion, more frequently than current New York does, I guess the last time New York went GOP was Reagan 84.

Here are other states that should be broken up. It's kind of lucky that so many of the big, liberal cities are on the water, or on the border with another state.

Pennsylvania can lose Philadelphia. 2 states, one Pennsylvania, one Philadelphia. Trump won Pennsylvania, even with Philadelphia, but typically that's not the case.

Illinois can lose Chicago. 2 states, one Illinois, one Chicago.

Michigan can lose Detroit. 2 states, one Michigan, one Detroit.

Florida can lose Miami and other counties like Broward, 2 states, one Florida, one Miami.

Missouri can lose St. Louis.

Washington can lose Seattle.

Oregon can lose Portland.

Ohio can lose Cleveland.
,
California can lose Los Angeles. And then can lose the Bay Area. 3 states, one California, one Los Angeles, one San Francisco.

[Brian4Liberty]

It seems to me that we have an overpopulation problem, with far too many urban and suburban people.

[Brian4Liberty]

There are not many states in similiar circumstances. New York and California are the only two I can think of. Are there any others?

Probably every state with an urban area that dominates state politics.

[parocks]

I am just guessing that there would still be a city in upstate NY that would expand with leftist Democrats, and since it would be such a small state, it wouldn’t take much for them to control the entire new state. Call me pessimistic.

California would be prime for breaking up, but all of the proposals break it up are by major urban centers. Thus each smaller state would have an urban areas and would still be dominated by leftists.

Everyone in NYC and LI is going to quit their jobs and move to Albany, Syracuse, Rochester, Buffalo, Ithaca? I don't think so.


Everywhere is the same, the big cities go 80-20 Dem, and the smaller cities + rural go 60-40 GOP.

You don't want to carve out a city that is surrounded by land of the state, but you can lop off a corner of a state, or a city that is on water.

Voting-wise, it's a win for GOP if all of the states that have troublemaking leftist cities in them got rid of those cities, where it would work.

[fcreature]

Probably every state with an urban area that dominates state politics.

There is so much more to it than that. Our urban area that dominates state politics is in its own distinct geography. It's not as if it's in the middle of our state. There are clear border lines that could easily be drawn. Additionally, it's not just about politics - it's about culture. Downstaters and upstaters have no care in the world for each other. Each thinks the other is a leech and each is convinced the other would fail immediately if the state were to split. There is absolutely no cohesion.

[Swordsmyth]

I like it. There are a lot of states that can be broken up into populous tiny city and suburbs vs rural area.

"California is so big, why does it only have 2 senators? If we were able to break California up into multiple states, the people of what is now California could have more senators, more representation"

As long as the division liberates conservatives to have representation and doesn't just give more power to the communists.

[Pauls' Revere]

This isn't the first time that changing the states has been discussed. I really enjoy this "change the states" game, and I'll jump in.

I wouldn't extend those states out. "Upstate New York" has a better chance of giving its electoral votes to the GOP if it isn't lumped in with Mass, CT, VT.

Here are the changes that should be made, that I like, at least.

New York - split New York into New York, and Upstate New York. That's how they see themselves anyway, for the most part.

New York will = New York City, Long Island, and Westchester county. Everything else = Upstate New York.

New York will almost always = 2 Dem Senators, and Dem President.
Upstate New York could give 2 GOP Senators, possibly, canceling out New York. Or 1 each, which make it a wash. Upstate New York will vote GOP Pres on occasion, more frequently than current New York does, I guess the last time New York went GOP was Reagan 84.

Here are other states that should be broken up. It's kind of lucky that so many of the big, liberal cities are on the water, or on the border with another state.

Pennsylvania can lose Philadelphia. 2 states, one Pennsylvania, one Philadelphia. Trump won Pennsylvania, even with Philadelphia, but typically that's not the case.

Illinois can lose Chicago. 2 states, one Illinois, one Chicago.

Michigan can lose Detroit. 2 states, one Michigan, one Detroit.

Florida can lose Miami and other counties like Broward, 2 states, one Florida, one Miami.

Missouri can lose St. Louis.

Washington can lose Seattle.

Oregon can lose Portland.

Ohio can lose Cleveland.
,
California can lose Los Angeles. And then can lose the Bay Area. 3 states, one California, one Los Angeles, one San Francisco.

I love it! although I don't think cities alone would want to be states, they would want "some" surrounding area as well. Cali could easily be three states. The state of San Diego (Southern Cal), The Coastal State (L.A. to S.F. and 45 miles inland), and everything else.

[Pauls' Revere]

As long as the division liberates conservatives to have representation and doesn't just give more power to the communists.

They are both big government parties anyways.

[Swordsmyth]

They are both big government parties anyways.

One is for much bigger government than the other and we are making progress with decreasing the size of government that the other wants.

[Pauls' Revere]

One is for much bigger government than the other and we are making progress with decreasing the size of government that the other wants.

Given a choice between worrying about GOP or DEM senators in a new state or rather let the people there decide to split, I'd rather see the split happen first and worry about the representation later.