Ron's Tweetstorm - Was Trump's Speech Libertarian?

[Brian4Liberty]

Ron's Tweetstorm - Was Trump's Speech Libertarian?

Dr. Paul took to Twitter last night to make live comments on President Trump's address to Congress. From a Libertarian perspective, where did Trump get it wrong and where did he get it right? What final grade did Dr. Paul give him?

[CaptUSA]

Damn. So much sense.

Why is it that we have so many people on these forums that have forgotten all of this stuff? Did they ever even know?

[CPUd]

Anyone with a spare twitter account, Ron could use some support in the replies. Just pick tweets from here:

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...=1#post6425407

Warning- you will get stalked by alt-right statists, so you might not want to use your main account.

[CaptUSA]

Anyone with a spare twitter account, Ron could use some support in the replies. Just pick tweets from here:

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...=1#post6425407

Warning- you will get stalked by alt-right statists, so you might not want to use your main account.

So... pretty much like RPF, then?

I don't do Twitter, but I support EVERYTHING Ron said in this video. It should be watched and reviewed by all Trump supporters here.

[CPUd]

RPFs is relatively tame compared to what's out there on social media.

[Ender]

Damn. So much sense.

Why is it that we have so many people on these forums that have forgotten all of this stuff? Did they ever even know?

Wonder sometimes.

Ron Paul always makes sense.

[bunklocoempire]

Thank you Dr. Paul.

Dr. Common Sense Gadfly tweets like a boss.

Ideas. Consistency. Conscience. Compassion. The Reality of Man's Nature.

[undergroundrr]

This is one of the best Liberty Reports ever. It really gets emotional in the part about the war widow.

Interesting that he implicates Obama for the Yemen raid at 15:00 - "The presidentS, both of them are responsible for this particular raid."

[PierzStyx]

I got sick last night listening to that speech. Physically ill.

[Superfluous Man]

I wonder if we could successfully petition RP to stop letting Rockwell publish his stuff until he stops pumping Trump.

[Superfluous Man]

I got sick last night listening to that speech. Physically ill.

Why subject yourself to that tripe?

[afwjam]

Awesome episode! I watch every one of them. We love you Dr. Paul.

[unknown]

Damn. So much sense.

Why is it that we have so many people on these forums that have forgotten all of this stuff? Did they ever even know?

Ive been wondering the same thing.

Were half the Ron Paul "people" really Deep State, authoritarian, big government RINO infiltrators?

[Superfluous Man]

Ive been wondering the same thing.

Were half the Ron Paul "people" really Deep State, authoritarian, big government RINO infiltrators?

Honestly, most of the ones who turned out to be Trump trannies (we're not supposed to say trolls), are not surprising.

When you take out the ones who have always been racists, protectionists, high 24/7, or just plain dumb, there aren't many left.

[timosman]

Honestly, most of the ones who turned out to be Trump trannies (we're not supposed to say trolls), are not surprising.

When you take out the ones who have always been racists, protectionists, high 24/7, or just plain dumb, there aren't many left.

Which of these categories you are in?

[GunnyFreedom]

Damn. So much sense.

Why is it that we have so many people on these forums that have forgotten all of this stuff? Did they ever even know?

They just hated the status quo and we had the best thing going, so they would happily smile and nod, maybe even repeat some of our key phrases about, but I think it was all a vehicle for whatever scheme they thought they had going on.

[Brian4Liberty]

Surprised no one has mentioned that we now have a "right" to childcare and extra paid leave for a special category of worker...

A look at Trump’s $500 billion child care plan

[sparebulb]

When you take out the ones who have always been racists, protectionists, high 24/7, or just plain dumb, there aren't many left.

A basket of deplorables, eh?

[Superfluous Man]

Which of these categories you are in?

None. But Timo's man fits a lot of them.

[ChristianAnarchist]

Thank you Ron Paul... Always consistent, always standing for liberty!!

[jmdrake]

Damn. So much sense.

Why is it that we have so many people on these forums that have forgotten all of this stuff? Did they ever even know?

Some always had their own agenda and the Ron Paul movement was just a means to push it. Others project what they want to see into Trump.

[PierzStyx]

Why subject yourself to that tripe?

Ugh. Who knows anymore. I guess it was the same instinct that makes you want to see the car crash on the side of the road, so you slow down just to watch.

[PierzStyx]

They just hated the status quo and we had the best thing going, so they would happily smile and nod, maybe even repeat some of our key phrases about, but I think it was all a vehicle for whatever scheme they thought they had going on.

Which makes me wonder if Dr. Ron Paul is right about the rise of libertarianism.

That said, today one of my students told me she thought the biggest problem with society was the government. And that gives me hope.

[CPUd]

Which makes me wonder if Dr. Ron Paul is right about the rise of libertarianism.

That said, today one of my students told me she thought the biggest problem with society was the government. And that gives me hope.

YAL has been growing since the end of Ron 2012 campaign and especially with Rand 2016.

[phill4paul]

I'd really like to hear from @LibertyEagle.

And @dannno.

[dannno]

I'd really like to hear from @LibertyEagle.

And @dannno.

I have no issue with Ron Paul's criticisms of Trump.. I share them.. but the fact is, he is no worse on any of these issues than the establishment, and he is a LOT better on many other issues.

But do you see Ron Paul getting up there and asking if the Russians hacked the election or talking about all the other stupid bull$#@! that gets passed around the msm about Trump? No, if anything he actually defends Trump on some of these points.. Unlike the msm, does Ron Paul zero in on the real liberty issues? Absolutely. Nothing wrong with that.

[phill4paul]

I have no issue with Ron Paul's criticisms of Trump.. I share them.. but the fact is, he is no worse on any of these issues than the establishment, and he is a LOT better on many other issues.

But do you see Ron Paul getting up there and asking if the Russians hacked the election or talking about all the other stupid bull$#@! that gets passed around the msm about Trump, or does Ron Paul zero in on the liberty issues?

I'm glad to hear you share Ron Paul's criticisms. I'd like to hear you cite Ron Paul's criticisms in future threads.

[osan]

I certainly appreciate Dr. Paul's normative notions and find myself in broad agreement. But are his positive expectations realistic, given the "very bad" conditions we find today? I cannot say they are not, but neither can I say that they are. The momentum of Leviathan is incalculable, particularly the mental aspect. To expect normatively correct measures to find realization in the current circumstance is not particularly realistic. It is, in fact, dangerous.

Is it not possible that Trump is attempting to optimize achievement in the right direction? It seems to me eminently plausible that in order to do this, one must take intermediate steps between the current state mess we're in and the goal state. People will simply reject out of hand most sea changes because they fear them or that which they imply. I have done a lot of process reengineering in my career, some of it for very large operations. In every case there were intermediate steps because flashing from "here" to "there" in one fell swoop is usually bound for failure precisely because people cannot take it all in. Now, imagine that situation magnified millions or billions of times as it applies to American political culture and economics. The nation would burn in short order for any of a fair list of reasons.

If we were to put Ron Paul in Trump's place this very afternoon, would be do better than Trump? I say no; not because he isn't smart or a man of integrity, but because there is only so much a sitting president can do. Swimming 180* against the mental tide of a nation this largely entrenched stands to fail rapidly and with great fireworks. Even an American president does not have that sort of power. I would also point out that all our talk of kicking liberal ass in the streets aside, the real truth is that a president is obliged, rightly or otherwise, to evade civil war at any reasonable cost. If that means taking 8 years to accomplish what could otherwise be done in 30 days, then he takes 8 years.

This journey back toward something resembling freedom cannot be accomplished as most people envision it. If Initiative-X were to put us 50% of the way from where we are to freedom and could be accomplished in a month's time, the cost being the "lefties" going ape$#@! and starting a war, is a president justified in undertaking it despite millions dead? It would be a tough sell and the precedent it would set, endlessly dangerous because that sword cuts both ways.

I will stop short of saying Ron Paul is mistaken on some of these issues, but I do question his positions in the particulars.

I would also point out that there are many actions Trump could take that would likely result in his assassination or removal from office, despite all of them being in the best interests of the American people. Let us not forget for even a moment what the Congress is. Let us not ignore the deadly dangerous corruption that lives and breathes there every day. It is commonplace and not some rare evil. It is become banal, and because of it, ever more dangerous to men like Dr. Paul and, possibly, Donald Trump.

It pays to be circumspect about these things. Would I like to see the "left" destroyed? No - I'd LOVE to. But the "right" isn't that much better, on average. Were I God over America and could eliminate everyone worthy of it with absolute precision, the aftermath would leave America with a population of about three. IOW, there is plenty of flaw on all sides and those sides, when threatened in truth or imagination, become unpredictable and endlessly dangerous, even to a sitting president.

Threats to life aside, there remains the fact that if Trump goes too far too fast, giving the vipers of Congress and others no time to adjust themselves to the changes, they will forget their cross-aisle differences and band together against him. The result: four years of nothing happening and a regime change back to something Theye feel is far safer and we will be back in the Obammy boat, for all intents and purposes. Is that what we want? I don't.

It therefore behooves the thinking man to take a step back and consider that maybe Trump is in good awareness of his predicament and chooses his actions for maximal effect in a circumstance to tight that larger and bolder bites risks the consolidation of the den into a bloc in full array against him. If Trump proves himself otherwise, there is not that much we can do about it now. Therefore, the best course, IMO, is to be supportive and do what you can to help steer things in a better direction while maintaining realistic expectations, which means bearing in mind the growing militancy of the "left". They are talking a new talk and beginning to walk it. If they strike, we deal with it as we must, but I see no reason to goad them unnecessarily into initiation, satisfying as it might be in some respects. Do not forget that any of us could end up dead in a national melée. Best to live to fight another day under less immediately dangerous conditions, if possible.

Trump has purged a large chunk of State. Unless there is something there of which I am unaware, I call that a good move in the right direction. No, it's not instant liberty for all. You weren't going to get that in any event, so be glad for a nudge in a better direction. And if you feel he is not doing right on a given issue, why not become involved? I deplore the reports that Trump intends on continuing his support for the drug war. Perhaps I should get off my ass and see what I might do to help him see the better way. What a concept.

[givemeliberty2010]

I certainly appreciate Dr. Paul's normative notions and find myself in broad agreement. But are his positive expectations realistic, given the "very bad" conditions we find today? I cannot say they are not, but neither can I say that they are. The momentum of Leviathan is incalculable, particularly the mental aspect. To expect normatively correct measures to find realization in the current circumstance is not particularly realistic. It is, in fact, dangerous.

Is it not possible that Trump is attempting to optimize achievement in the right direction? It seems to me eminently plausible that in order to do this, one must take intermediate steps between the current state mess we're in and the goal state. People will simply reject out of hand most sea changes because they fear them or that which they imply. I have done a lot of process reengineering in my career, some of it for very large operations. In every case there were intermediate steps because flashing from "here" to "there" in one fell swoop is usually bound for failure precisely because people cannot take it all in. Now, imagine that situation magnified millions or billions of times as it applies to American political culture and economics. The nation would burn in short order for any of a fair list of reasons.

If we were to put Ron Paul in Trump's place this very afternoon, would be do better than Trump? I say no; not because he isn't smart or a man of integrity, but because there is only so much a sitting president can do. Swimming 180* against the mental tide of a nation this largely entrenched stands to fail rapidly and with great fireworks. Even an American president does not have that sort of power. I would also point out that all our talk of kicking liberal ass in the streets aside, the real truth is that a president is obliged, rightly or otherwise, to evade civil war at any reasonable cost. If that means taking 8 years to accomplish what could otherwise be done in 30 days, then he takes 8 years.

This journey back toward something resembling freedom cannot be accomplished as most people envision it. If Initiative-X were to put us 50% of the way from where we are to freedom and could be accomplished in a month's time, the cost being the "lefties" going ape$#@! and starting a war, is a president justified in undertaking it despite millions dead? It would be a tough sell and the precedent it would set, endlessly dangerous because that sword cuts both ways.

I will stop short of saying Ron Paul is mistaken on some of these issues, but I do question his positions in the particulars.

I would also point out that there are many actions Trump could take that would likely result in his assassination or removal from office, despite all of them being in the best interests of the American people. Let us not forget for even a moment what the Congress is. Let us not ignore the deadly dangerous corruption that lives and breathes there every day. It is commonplace and not some rare evil. It is become banal, and because of it, ever more dangerous to men like Dr. Paul and, possibly, Donald Trump.

It pays to be circumspect about these things. Would I like to see the "left" destroyed? No - I'd LOVE to. But the "right" isn't that much better, on average. Were I God over America and could eliminate everyone worthy of it with absolute precision, the aftermath would leave America with a population of about three. IOW, there is plenty of flaw on all sides and those sides, when threatened in truth or imagination, become unpredictable and endlessly dangerous, even to a sitting president.

Threats to life aside, there remains the fact that if Trump goes too far too fast, giving the vipers of Congress and others no time to adjust themselves to the changes, they will forget their cross-aisle differences and band together against him. The result: four years of nothing happening and a regime change back to something Theye feel is far safer and we will be back in the Obammy boat, for all intents and purposes. Is that what we want? I don't.

It therefore behooves the thinking man to take a step back and consider that maybe Trump is in good awareness of his predicament and chooses his actions for maximal effect in a circumstance to tight that larger and bolder bites risks the consolidation of the den into a bloc in full array against him. If Trump proves himself otherwise, there is not that much we can do about it now. Therefore, the best course, IMO, is to be supportive and do what you can to help steer things in a better direction while maintaining realistic expectations, which means bearing in mind the growing militancy of the "left". They are talking a new talk and beginning to walk it. If they strike, we deal with it as we must, but I see no reason to goad them unnecessarily into initiation, satisfying as it might be in some respects. Do not forget that any of us could end up dead in a national melée. Best to live to fight another day under less immediately dangerous conditions, if possible.

Trump has purged a large chunk of State. Unless there is something there of which I am unaware, I call that a good move in the right direction. No, it's not instant liberty for all. You weren't going to get that in any event, so be glad for a nudge in a better direction. And if you feel he is not doing right on a given issue, why not become involved? I deplore the reports that Trump intends on continuing his support for the drug war. Perhaps I should get off my ass and see what I might do to help him see the better way. What a concept.

What reason do we have for thinking Trump wants to move things in what libertarians would consider the right direction? Trump sometimes talks a moderately good game on foreign policy, but talk doesn't change anything. His biggest policy proposal so far is the budget plans, which, although not official yet, seem likely to mean more debt.

I will grant that a lot has been made of his anti-regulatory policies. While I lack the specific knowledge of how much he can put into effect and what the effect would be, perhaps that is one area where his actions look libertarian. On another important libertarian concern, limitation of executive power, his actions have been terrible.

[osan]

What reason do we have for thinking Trump wants to move things in what libertarians would consider the right direction? Trump sometimes talks a moderately good game on foreign policy, but talk doesn't change anything. His biggest policy proposal so far is the budget plans, which, although not official yet, seem likely to mean more debt.

I will grant that a lot has been made of his anti-regulatory policies. While I lack the specific knowledge of how much he can put into effect and what the effect would be, perhaps that is one area where his actions look libertarian. On another important libertarian concern, limitation of executive power, his actions have been terrible.

Would you prefer Clinton? Another four of Obama?

Complain all you like. You are NOT going to get what I presume you to want any time soon. You should be happy that thus far Trump has made a couple of rather good moves, like gutting the "7th Floor" of State. Criminy, what in hell did you think would happen, even if Ron Paul had been elected - smoking crack on the Capitol steps with your M60 while a tranny prostitute takes your money and hums your knob for all to see? Not going to happen, even if it is what you want.

I'll repeat it: any turn toward liberty, however slight, is going to take a lot of time to realize. It took us 229 years to get here. What makes anyone think that in even 20 years or 30 under far better conditions than those we now face, that we would be able to wing naked in the streets with our 20mm cannon on our backs, blunts ablaze, as we ride hookers down the boulevard?

In case you have not been paying attention these past 20 years or so, the vast majority of Americans have NO INTEREST in freedom. None. Zero. Want to see the fat-assed lazy Americans jump into murderous action from one day to the next? Unleash freedom on them. They would be so gob-smacked with terror and disgust, they would be on the streets burning the nation to the waterline without so much as the first thought about what it was they were doing or why. Jesus, man, just look at what happened in Portland and Berkeley with the election of Trump, and that was a drop in the bucket compared with what would have happened had Ron Paul ascended the throne.

We are a TINY minority. Most on the "right" are still statists, the only notable difference between them and the left being that they want far prettier cages. Then there is the "left" half of America - a race of raving, cowardly nitwits who shriek "love" and "tolerance" while all at once being some of the most immeasurably hateful, intolerant, and fear-wracked people I have ever encountered. But toss real liberty onto them like napalm and see how quickly they would be sucking each other's dicks in support of the effort to burn the witches and affect the nation's thankful return to the pretty slavery with which they are so comfortable and calling it "freedom".

I really don't know what some of you folks think is going to happen when your libertarian messiah arrives to take his oath. Chances are good to better that his brains would be decorating a sidewalk in a city near you. I will be not at all surprised if this happens to Trump.

Trump ain't perfect, that is for damned sure, but it was going to be him or Hillary and I know Hillary was the worse of the two. I've said my peace about what intelligent men should do with Trump. Either act on it or tell me "$#@! you". It's all good, I suppose. Eight years of the depressing pessimism brought on by that Kenyan bastard was enough for me, and methinks millions of others. I have no great expectations, but at least some hope that I would have otherwise not had if Hillary had gotten the nod.

As bad as these political times are, I would think that intelligent men would be glad that things didn't go as wrong as they might have with this most recent election. The system is rigged and $#@!ed and lousy, we all grant that. That leaves YOU with a decision: make the best of it in whatever way you can, of pick up your rifle. If you're not going to join a militia and start shooting, then I can only say that you should zip it because you are wasting your breath and everyone else's time. Things are what they are. You either work within the current context, or you go to war. Doesn't matter to me which you choose, so long as you stop carping pointlessly, and by "you" I don't mean you personally, but the third person plural sense of the word, which means all of us. I'm not ready to start shooting, so I am sitting back and observing how Trump proceeds. State department slaughterhouse was a good move to start. Reversing Obama's gun control measure was good. There are others on the plus-side of the list, and then there's the "wall" and his stated consideration of doubling down on the drug war... both bad moves IMO. Well, if he is to $#@! up, I call these relatively minor errors that might even stand correction in time. So thus far, I am not seeing the basis for all the howling I hear about Trump. OTOH, I'm not that smart, so who knows what I might be missing.