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Thread: Liberty is possible. ONLY in a Republic.

  1. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by Matt Collins View Post
    The text at this link contradicts itself.

    Not so big on nuance, are you?

    "Although the early West was not completely anarchistic, we believe that government as a legitimate agency of coercion was absent for a long enough period to provide insights into the operation and viability of property rights in the absence of a formal state." (emphasis added)
    Chris

    "Government ... does not exist of necessity, but rather by virtue of a tragic, almost comical combination of klutzy, opportunistic terrorism against sitting ducks whom it pretends to shelter, plus our childish phobia of responsibility, praying to be exempted from the hard reality of life on life's terms." Wolf DeVoon

    "...Make America Great Again. I'm interested in making American FREE again. Then the greatness will come automatically."Ron Paul



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  3. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by Matt Collins View Post
    It says there was government in the wild west while using the wild west as an example of anarchy.
    I think you may need to (re?) read the entire treatise.



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  5. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by CCTelander View Post
    "Liberty is possible, ONLY in a Republic." - HVACTech

    "...Freedom is slavery..." - George Orwell

    "...Ignorance is strength." - George Orwell
    It's important to have a strong warden, otherwise the inmates might infringe upon one another.
    All modern revolutions have ended in a reinforcement of the power of the State.
    -Albert Camus

  6. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by TheTexan View Post
    Yes, the key thing to a remember is that in a Republic, you're voting for someone who will vote for you. Or in some cases, you're voting for someone, who will for someone, who will vote for someone, who will vote for you.

    These additional layers of voting are critical, to protecting Liberty and Freedom.
    Wikipedia

    A republic (from Latin: res publica) is a sovereign state or country[1] which is organized with a form of government in which power resides in elected individuals representing the citizen body[2][3] and government leaders exercise power according to the rule of law.
    yes, the qualifying characteristic for a Republic is a "Rule of Law"

    what is the meaning of this turn of phrase sir? that there IS Law. and the people obey it? or, does it simply indicate that Law exists?
    does it have ANYTHING to do with the Sheriff or the Police?

    can we agree that the defining characteristic of a Republic.. is a "Rule of Law"?
    Last edited by HVACTech; 09-02-2016 at 08:41 PM.
    "If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough." - Albert Einstein

    "for I have sworn upon the altar of god eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man. - Thomas Jefferson.

  7. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by Matt Collins View Post
    Libertarianism and anarchy are not the same thing, it is impossible to have liberty with anarchy the same way it is impossible to have liberty with democracy
    Says the guy who wouldn't recognize liberty if it walked up and bit him.
    Quote Originally Posted by Torchbearer
    what works can never be discussed online. there is only one language the government understands, and until the people start speaking it by the magazine full... things will remain the same.
    Hear/buy my music here "government is the enemy of liberty"-RP Support me on Patreon here Ephesians 6:12

  8. #36
    Federalist no 10, 48, 55, and 39 are relevant reads.

  9. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by HVACTech View Post
    yes, the qualifying characteristic for a Republic is a "Rule of Law"

    what is the meaning of this turn of phrase sir? that there IS Law. and the people obey it? or, does it simply indicate that Law exists?
    does it have ANYTHING to do with the Sheriff or the Police?

    can we agree that the defining characteristic of a Republic.. is a "Rule of Law"?
    Yes, all those other systems of governments don't have rule of law. "Rule of Law" is a unique characteristic specific only to Republics and thats what makes a Republic just so very special.
    It's all about taking action and not being lazy. So you do the work, whether it's fitness or whatever. It's about getting up, motivating yourself and just doing it.
    - Kim Kardashian

    Donald Trump / Crenshaw 2024!!!!

    My pronouns are he/him/his

  10. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by CCTelander View Post
    Not so big on nuance, are you?

    "Although the early West was not completely anarchistic, we believe that government as a legitimate agency of coercion was absent for a long enough period to provide insights into the operation and viability of property rights in the absence of a formal state." (emphasis added)
    please stop being rude. and talk sense.
    I liked the highlighted part of what you wrote.

    I take it to mean. that property "rights" do not require a "legitimate agency of coercion"

    I consider a Gun to be an "agent of coercion" sir. if I have more than one... they are an "agency"?
    why are you against guns?
    "If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough." - Albert Einstein

    "for I have sworn upon the altar of god eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man. - Thomas Jefferson.

  11. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by Natural Citizen View Post
    Federalist no 10, 48, 55, and 39 are relevant reads.
    "Federation" is too big of a word to use with these guys.
    they get snarky REAL fast if you even suggest ANY sort of "League" or "union"...

    these guys consider " Major League Baseball" a "legitimate agency of coercion"
    "If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough." - Albert Einstein

    "for I have sworn upon the altar of god eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man. - Thomas Jefferson.

  12. #40
    liberty, like life, is natural, inherent, self evident, and inalienable
    liberty exists with or without a government; within the confines of natural law

    'We endorse the idea of voluntarism; self-responsibility: Family, friends, and churches to solve problems, rather than saying that some monolithic government is going to make you take care of yourself and be a better person. It's a preposterous notion: It never worked, it never will. The government can't make you a better person; it can't make you follow good habits.' - Ron Paul 1988

    Awareness is the Root of Liberation Revolution is Action upon Revelation

    'Resistance and Disobedience in Economic Activity is the Most Moral Human Action Possible' - SEK3

    Flectere si nequeo superos, Acheronta movebo.

    ...the familiar ritual of institutional self-absolution...
    ...for protecting them, by mock trial, from punishment...




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  14. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by TheTexan View Post
    Yes, all those other systems of governments don't have rule of law. "Rule of Law" is a unique characteristic specific only to Republics and thats what makes a Republic just so very special.
    there are ONLY 4.
    systems of governments
    sir.

    1 Anarchy.
    2 Oligarchy.
    3 Republic
    4 Democracy.

    perhaps now. you will start to pay attention.. to WTF you are talking about sir?

    please?



    who do you. THINK. that you are talking to?

    "If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough." - Albert Einstein

    "for I have sworn upon the altar of god eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man. - Thomas Jefferson.

  15. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by presence View Post
    liberty, like life, is natural, inherent, self evident, and inalienable
    liberty exists with or without a government; within the confines of natural law
    yes sir. I agree. Liberty is a lady.
    she does NOT need my permission to exist. and Life is simply not beautiful without her.
    "natural Law" did not put a sword in her hand sir.
    we did that .

    "If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough." - Albert Einstein

    "for I have sworn upon the altar of god eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man. - Thomas Jefferson.

  16. #43
    Say what you want about HVACTech, but he understands what he's talking about.

  17. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by HVACTech View Post
    there are ONLY 4. sir.

    ..

    3 Republic
    4 Democracy.
    Yes, and those two are like way totally different !
    It's all about taking action and not being lazy. So you do the work, whether it's fitness or whatever. It's about getting up, motivating yourself and just doing it.
    - Kim Kardashian

    Donald Trump / Crenshaw 2024!!!!

    My pronouns are he/him/his

  18. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by Natural Citizen View Post
    Say what you want about HVACTech, but he understands what he's talking about.
    you might be surprised at what folks are paying "out there" for A/C and Refrigeration service work sir.
    R-22 went ballistic this year in cost.

    around here, (and every place else) what I do for a living is so simple ANY Monkey can do it.

    every day of my life.. I deal with people who have no idea of what I am talking about... as they write me a big fat check.
    "If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough." - Albert Einstein

    "for I have sworn upon the altar of god eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man. - Thomas Jefferson.

  19. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by TheTexan View Post
    Yes, and those two are like way totally different !
    there is a separation point sir.

    it is like the difference between a gas furnace and an electric furnace.
    while they both produce heat. to confuse them.
    is the mark of a fool.
    "If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough." - Albert Einstein

    "for I have sworn upon the altar of god eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man. - Thomas Jefferson.

  20. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by Natural Citizen View Post
    Say what you want about HVACTech, but he understands what he's talking about.
    Well, to be fair... do you know anyone else who speaks HVACTechese?

    It's kind of a short list.

  21. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by A Son of Liberty View Post
    Well, to be fair... do you know anyone else who speaks HVACTechese?

    It's kind of a short list.

    Well, I understand the individual words, but as far as the train of logic and thought processes behind hem, I'm totally in the dark.
    Chris

    "Government ... does not exist of necessity, but rather by virtue of a tragic, almost comical combination of klutzy, opportunistic terrorism against sitting ducks whom it pretends to shelter, plus our childish phobia of responsibility, praying to be exempted from the hard reality of life on life's terms." Wolf DeVoon

    "...Make America Great Again. I'm interested in making American FREE again. Then the greatness will come automatically."Ron Paul



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  23. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by Natural Citizen View Post
    Say what you want about HVACTech, but he understands what he's talking about.
    Yes, the first step in communicating ideas to others is understanding what you wish to convey.
    The second step is choosing to convey these ideas in such a way that your audience can actually understand what the $#@! you are talking about.
    It's a two-fold process.
    All modern revolutions have ended in a reinforcement of the power of the State.
    -Albert Camus

  24. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by CCTelander View Post
    Well, I understand the individual words, but as far as the train of logic and thought processes behind hem, I'm totally in the dark.
    You are not alone, my friend.

  25. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by HVACTech View Post
    there are ONLY 4. sir.

    1 Anarchy.
    2 Oligarchy.
    3 Republic
    4 Democracy.
    Actually, there are only TWO, sir, and the difference between the two is the difference between having a furnace and freezing your ass off. (sir).
    One is a lady, the other is a giant potato with eyes that pierce your skin and sleep in your shoe. Must I, a humble exterminator, draw your bath, sir?
    All modern revolutions have ended in a reinforcement of the power of the State.
    -Albert Camus

  26. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by Natural Citizen View Post
    Say what you want about HVACTech, but he understands what he's talking about.
    LOLOLOLOL!!!
    Quote Originally Posted by Torchbearer
    what works can never be discussed online. there is only one language the government understands, and until the people start speaking it by the magazine full... things will remain the same.
    Hear/buy my music here "government is the enemy of liberty"-RP Support me on Patreon here Ephesians 6:12

  27. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by otherone View Post
    Actually, there are only TWO, sir, and the difference between the two is the difference between having a furnace and freezing your ass off. (sir).
    One is a lady, the other is a giant potato with eyes that pierce your skin and sleep in your shoe. Must I, a humble exterminator, draw your bath, sir?

    ROTFLMFAO!!!

    "You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to otherone again."
    Chris

    "Government ... does not exist of necessity, but rather by virtue of a tragic, almost comical combination of klutzy, opportunistic terrorism against sitting ducks whom it pretends to shelter, plus our childish phobia of responsibility, praying to be exempted from the hard reality of life on life's terms." Wolf DeVoon

    "...Make America Great Again. I'm interested in making American FREE again. Then the greatness will come automatically."Ron Paul

  28. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by CCTelander View Post
    ROTFLMFAO!!!

    "You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to otherone again."
    lol...yeah.. I'd agree w/ the OP if participation in his freedom-rich republic was, umm, voluntary.
    All modern revolutions have ended in a reinforcement of the power of the State.
    -Albert Camus

  29. #55
    There is a recurring theme of "lady" Liberty. I think this will make my point clearer than I could present it.



    The Great Compromise John Prine I knew a girl who was almost a lady
    She had a way with all the men in her life
    Every inch of her blossomed in beauty
    And she was born on the fourth of July Well she lived in an aluminum house trailer
    And she worked in a juke box saloon
    And she spent all the money that I give her
    Just to see the old man in the moon I used to sleep at the foot of old glory
    And awake in the dawn's early light But much to my surprise when I opened my eyes I was a victim of the great compromise
    Well we'd go out on Saturday evenings
    To the drive-in on Route 41
    And it was there that I first suspected
    That she was doin' what she'd already done She said, "Johnny won't you get me some popcorn"
    And she knew I had to walk pretty far And as soon as I passed through the moonlight
    She hopped into a foreign sports car I used to sleep at the foot of old glory
    And awake in the dawn's early light But much to my surprise when I opened my eyes I was a victim of the great compromise Well you know I could have beat up that fellow But it was her that had hopped into his car
    Many times I'd fought to protect her
    But this time she was goin' too far
    Now some folks they call me a coward
    'Cause I left her at the drive-in that night
    But I'd rather have names thrown at me
    Than to fight for a thing that ain't right I used to sleep at the foot of old glory And awake in the dawn's early light
    But much to my surprise when I opened my eyes I was a victim of the great compromise
    Now she writes all the fellows love letters Saying "Greetings, come and see me real soon"
    And they go and line up in the barroom And spend the night in that sick woman's room
    But sometimes I get awful lonesome And I wish she was my girl instead
    But she won't let me live with her And she makes me live in my head I used to sleep at the foot of old glory And awake in the dawn's early light But much to my surprise when I opened my eyes I was a victim of the great compromise


    Don't be a victim of the great compromise.

  30. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by otherone View Post
    Actually, there are only TWO, sir, and the difference between the two is the difference between having a furnace and freezing your ass off. (sir).
    One is a lady, the other is a giant potato with eyes that pierce your skin and sleep in your shoe. Must I, a humble exterminator, draw your bath, sir?
    only two. eh...

    one is a "state" and the @otherone is not.
    am I getting warm yet?
    "If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough." - Albert Einstein

    "for I have sworn upon the altar of god eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man. - Thomas Jefferson.



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  32. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post
    If enough of the people want liberty, they will find the means to get it, regardless of what system they live under.

    If they do not, if they hate liberty and want nothing to do with it, like most Amerikunts today, then you will have tyranny, regardless of what system they live under.

    Once again, this is the fatal flaw the framers of the CONstitution failed to address.

    Or, or, more correctly, willfully ignored, being the counter revolutionaries they were.
    Article IV, Section 4: Guarantee Clause.
    The United States shall guarantee to every State in this Union a Republican Form of Government, and shall protect each of them against Invasion;
    a Republican Form of Government,

    that sounds like it is probably.. pretty important to understand what a "Republic" is.

    allowing that the founders probably knew what a Republic is...
    how did they chose to express the concept of "The Rule of Law" sir?

    did they provide us with a Rule of Law for our Republic?
    and if so, what was it based on? where and what is it?

    does RPF's know what a Republic is? and if not, does that explain why I am misunderstood?

    "If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough." - Albert Einstein

    "for I have sworn upon the altar of god eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man. - Thomas Jefferson.

  33. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by CCTelander View Post
    Not so big on nuance, are you?

    "Although the early West was not completely anarchistic, we believe that government as a legitimate agency of coercion was absent for a long enough period to provide insights into the operation and viability of property rights in the absence of a formal state." (emphasis added)
    Again, it contradicted itself. It says absence of a formal government while saying that there was a government.
    __________________________________________________ ________________
    "A politician will do almost anything to keep their job, even become a patriot" - Hearst

  34. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by Matt Collins View Post
    Again, it contradicted itself. It says absence of a formal government while saying that there was a government.
    You may play obtuse, but you know full well what was meant. As does anyone with a basic level of comprehension.

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