Did Ahmadinejad threaten to wipe Israel off the map?

[Josalyn]

I sometimes get into conversations about this with people and when I inform them that it's a misquote (and one often used by politicians who are aware it's a misquote or at least a questionable translation), the rebuke is often "who cares? the guy's evil and he wants to get rid of israel."

There are far more incriminating things he's said, believe me.

My response to this is always the same: "If Ahmadinejad is such a bad guy, why do you feel the need to rely on a known false quote to demonstrate how bad he is? Don't you have something real to back up your claim that Iran is this huge existential threat?"

Of course, as others here have spoken to, Ahmadinejad certainly isn't a saint, but, I mean hey, I don't like Barack Obama, that doesn't mean I go around making false claims about him that are even more horrible than the truth.

Everyone says who cares because he's said something that trumps that a million time over, to which when he shouted Iranians followed suit and called "موت لاسرائيل! /Māwt-lī Isrāel!" in other words "Death to Israel".

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FckLO8HcNyo

Just watch the video, its all right there :/

Its kind of like a Rock and a Hard place; on one hand; its not our right to police Iran and stop them from getting Nuclear weapons but on the other hand we have promises from the Iranian President of Israels destruction -- who is a good ally of ours.

Isolation must have taught us something in WWII, unless we are willing to let history repeat itself, because after Ahmadinejad gets Israel he will come after the "Evil-West".

[ExPatPaki]

Every Muslim or Christian Arab has probably at least once in their lifetime has said 'Death to Israel' or expressed a similar sentiment after Israel bombs Palestinian babies. Doesn't matter if they're Iranian or not.

[No Free Beer]

There are far more incriminating things he's said, believe me.



Everyone says who cares because he's said something that trumps that a million time over, to which when he shouted Iranians followed suit and called "موت لاسرائيل! /Māwt-lī Isrāel!" in other words "Death to Israel".

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FckLO8HcNyo

Just watch the video, its all right there :/

Its kind of like a Rock and a Hard place; on one hand; its not our right to police Iran and stop them from getting Nuclear weapons but on the other hand we have promises from the Iranian President of Israels destruction -- who is a good ally of ours.

Isolation must have taught us something in WWII, unless we are willing to let history repeat itself, because after Ahmadinejad gets Israel he will come after the "Evil-West".

Are you saying "isolationism" from our part lead to the rise of Hitler and Nazi Germany?

[Keith and stuff]

Not exactly . First , who cares ?he is in no position to make threats , second , he has some very crazy beliefs.

I agree. He is neither in charge of Iran nor the Iranian military. Even if he wanted to do such a thing, he doesn't have the power to do so. Additionally, I doubt Iran even has the ability to do such a thing.

[Josalyn]

Every Muslim or Christian Arab has probably at least once in their lifetime has said 'Death to Israel' or expressed a similar sentiment after Israel bombs Palestinian babies. Doesn't matter if they're Iranian or not.

What? You can't pull a straw-man out like that; you can't claim something that has no substantial evidence to back it up; or like wise I can say, since numerous Arab/Muslim leaders call for the death of "Kuffar" and Israel that they all want that same thing. Crazy isn't it?

Its not just another Iranian Citizen saying it -- its the Iranian President...and then all the people follow him.

Are you saying "isolationism" from our part led to the rise of Hitler and Nazi Germany?

I'm saying Isolationism didn't help; its impossible for it to have led to it; but the trouble will eventually come to us when it comes to certain leaders threatening abroad.

[jmdrake]

Its not just another Iranian Citizen saying it -- its the Iranian President...and then all the people follow him.

Ummmmm....you realize the president of Iran has no military powers? People follow Pat Robertson too but I don't worry about him saying Hugo Chavez should be assassinated. (Maybe I should?) Anyway it's a misquote. Amadinejad didn't saying anything worse towards Israel than Bush had already said towards Iran (regime change).

[jmdrake]

Mistranslated quote aside.

Ahmedinejad has still said this of his own words, mind you - موت لاسرائيل /Māwt-lī Isrāel - easily translated to "Death to Israel" not to a regime or governmental leader, the actual country's name.

It's pretty obvious that it the political system in Israel changed the name would change as well. Something as simple and as "peaceful" as giving Palestinians the right of return + the right to vote would = no more "Israel". The name cannot exist without the regime.

[ExPatPaki]

What? You can't pull a straw-man out like that; you can't claim something that has no substantial evidence to back it up; or like wise I can say, since numerous Arab/Muslim leaders call for the death of "Kuffar" and Israel that they all want that same thing. Crazy isn't it?

Well I lived in Beirut and people there did call for the destruction of Israel quite frequently. Same thing with people in Pakistan I obviously can't say that every single Muslim wishes for it, but its quite safe to say the majority of Muslims do.

Its not just another Iranian Citizen saying it -- its the Iranian President...and then all the people follow him.

Lol, the Iranian president ain't $#@!. It's what marjas and other high ranking clerics from both Sunni and Shia say which matters, because people in that region follow religious leaders more than political ones. And you obviously know what the religious clerics want in terms of Israel.

If you're not sure of what the clerics want, you can email them. They have websites and usually email back within 2 weeks.

[GeorgiaAvenger]

Not exactly but he would love to no doubt about it.

[No Free Beer]

Do you realize that in Iran, there are Jews?

[anaconda]

Everyone says who cares because he's said something that trumps that a million time over, to which when he shouted Iranians followed suit and called "موت لاسرائيل! /Māwt-lī Isrāel!" in other words "Death to Israel".

But just because some blow hard administrator says "death to so-and-so" doesn't mean they intend to mount an attack. Why do we have to impose warmongering sanctions on millions of people because one or two dudes made a provocative statement?

[anaconda]

Ummmmm....you realize the president of Iran has no military powers? People follow Pat Robertson too but I don't worry about him saying Hugo Chavez should be assassinated. (Maybe I should?) Anyway it's a misquote. Amadinejad didn't saying anything worse towards Israel than Bush had already said towards Iran (regime change).

Very astute.

[unknown]

Its not that simple because the original speech was not in English.

Here are two pieces which may be helpful:

Now we face a similar propaganda distortion of remarks by Iran's president. Ask anyone in Washington, London or Tel Aviv if they can cite any phrase uttered by Mahmoud Ahmadinejad and the chances are high they will say he wants Israel "wiped off the map".

Again it is four short words, though the distortion is worse than in the Khrushchev case. The remarks are not out of context. They are wrong, pure and simple. Ahmadinejad never said them. Farsi speakers have pointed out that he was mistranslated. The Iranian president was quoting an ancient statement by Iran's first Islamist leader, the late Ayatollah Khomeini, that "this regime occupying Jerusalem must vanish from the page of time" just as the Shah's regime in Iran had vanished.

He was not making a military threat. He was calling for an end to the occupation of Jerusalem at some point in the future. The "page of time" phrase suggests he did not expect it to happen soon. There was no implication that either Khomeini, when he first made the statement, or Ahmadinejad, in repeating it, felt it was imminent, or that Iran would be involved in bringing it about.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisf...02/comment.usa

So there we have it. Starting with Juan Cole, and going via the New York Times' experts through MEMRI to the BBC's monitors, the consensus is that Ahmadinejad did not talk about any maps. He was, as I insisted in my original piece, offering a vague wish for the future.

The same with regard to Israel. The Iranian president is undeniably an opponent of Zionism or, if you prefer the phrase, the Zionist regime. But so are substantial numbers of Israeli citizens, Jews as well as Arabs. The anti-Zionist and non-Zionist traditions in Israel are not insignificant. So we should not demonise Ahmadinejad on those grounds alone.

Does this quibbling over phrases matter? Yes, of course. Within days of the Ahmadinejad speech the then Israeli prime minister, Ariel Sharon, was calling for Iran to be expelled from the United Nations. Other foreign leaders have quoted the map phrase. The United States is piling pressure on its allies to be tough with Iran.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisf...jun/14/post155

[Brian4Liberty]

either way, we need to take every leader's words seriously.

As others have said, that little weasel Ahmadinejad is not the leader of Iran. The head of Iran is called the Supreme Leader, who is an entirely different person (Ali Khamenei). He's actually in a different political party than Ahmadinejad.

Here are the powers of the Supreme Leader (who is not Ahmadinejad):

The Leader appoints the heads of many powerful posts - the commanders of the armed forces, the director of the national radio and television network, the heads of the major religious foundations, the prayer leaders in city mosques, and the members of national security councils dealing with defence and foreign affairs. He also appoints the chief judge, the chief prosecutor, special tribunals and, with the help of the chief judge, half of the 12 jurists of the Guardian Council – the powerful body that decides both what bills may become law and who may run for president or parliament. Also according to Iranian constitution the Supreme Leader asserts the authority of the president. He can veto the laws made by the parliament and traditionally he permits for presidential candidates to proclaim their candidacy. According to a common opinion in Iran, the Supreme Leader is the one who is over the law not under.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Politics_of_Iran

Ahmedinejad has still said this of his own words, mind you - موت لاسرائيل /Māwt-lī Isrāel - easily translated to "Death to Israel" not to a regime or governmental leader, the actual country's name.

Even if I believe letting Israel defend itself is the better option, no one can deny Ahmadinejads intentions toward Israel, as well as whether or not he's just giving lip-service on the matter.

No doubt Ahmadinejad is no friend to the Israeli government. But did you know that "death to" something is a common derogatory swear phrase in the Middle East? It's kind of like the American phrase "screw" something, like "Screw Ahmadinejad!" or "Screw those bureaucrats!"

1) That's an often quoted mistranslation.
2) He actually asked for regime change in Israel....which is what the U.S. asked for in Iran. (Pot calling the kettle black?)
3) As president he is not in charge of the Iranian armed forces. So he couldn't attack Israel even if he wanted to.
4) Israel can take care of itself.
5) Our stupid foreign policy has given Iran a new ally in the region....Iraq!

There it is, short and to the point!

[Josalyn]

Ummmmm....you realize the president of Iran has no military powers? People follow Pat Robertson too but I don't worry about him saying Hugo Chavez should be assassinated. (Maybe I should?) Anyway it's a misquote. Amadinejad didn't saying anything worse towards Israel than Bush had already said towards Iran (regime change).

It's pretty obvious that it the political system in Israel changed the name would change as well. Something as simple and as "peaceful" as giving Palestinians the right of return + the right to vote would = no more "Israel". The name cannot exist without the regime.

Ummmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm...you do realize he is the head of the Council of National Security right? While yes the Supreme Leader has far more power, the President is beneath only him, this doesn't make him "Powerless". And no he actually yells the words "Māwt-lī Isrāel" -- No misquote there. I even posted the video :/

No, the Regime cannot exists without the State. If he meant the regime he would have said it, or does he also mean that America's "regime" is Criminal and not actually America the country? If he meant "death to" a Regime he would have specified as he has before.

You seem to think that name of the state "Israel" is code or a metaphor for "the mean things Israel does", when its not.

Well I lived in Beirut and people there did call for the destruction of Israel quite frequently. Same thing with people in Pakistan I obviously can't say that every single Muslim wishes for it, but its quite safe to say the majority of Muslims do.

Well, My Mother, Uncle, Grandmother and Grandfather lived in Isfahan before and during the Revolution, to which they had to flee from death in the middle of the night, and they only had n hour to do so, and there was not Christian calling for the death of Israel .

I know what Ali Khamenei wants("it is incorrect, irrational, pointless and nonsense to say that we are friends of Israeli people,") as did the Majra' before him (Who ordered Salman Rushdie to death for writing a book...and many anti-simetic views). But an appointed individual by the people, reflects the peoples views well enough.

Do you realize that in Iran, there are Jews?

And? There are Christians and Women in Egypt and Saudi Arabia and they are still being neglected and abused by their own governments, what point does this serve?

There are Jews in Egypt and Turkey - and a VAST majority of Turkish officials and Egyptian officials want them dead.

But just because some blow hard administrator says "death to so-and-so" doesn't mean they intend to mount an attack. Why do we have to impose warmongering sanctions on millions of people because one or two dudes made a provocative statement?

That's the problem they aren't just some "dudes" and that not just a "Provocative statement" its a threat. I am not saying to impose sanctions either but its not as easy a decision as people make it out to be.

In my opinion we should stop funding other countries and such because its good for Israel in the long run, but we shouldn't isolate ourselves completely from our good allies either.

No doubt Ahmadinejad is no friend to the Israeli government. But did you know that "death to" something is a common derogatory swear phrase in the Middle East? It's kind of like the American phrase "screw" something, like "Screw Ahmadinejad!" or "Screw those bureaucrats!"

No. "Māwt/موت" means "death" in Arabic, "-lī" the particle for "To" and then the name "Isreal", Arabic is a very straight-forward language, I assure you, they don't men "Screw you". موت لاسرائيل isn't like جهاد which can mean quite a few things or like مجنون which can either be taken lightly as a joke but still taken very serious as an insult in certain situations.

Just because its as common as "Screw you-" is to American-English doesn't make it the equivalent, that would more likely be 'Kūṣ ūmmāk' or hitting with the bottom of a shoe perhaps. Since the words "Screw" has no adianoeta like ours, it'd be equivalent to "$#@! You" but doesn't mean the same.

[ExPatPaki]

There are Jews in Egypt and Turkey - and a VAST majority of Turkish officials and Egyptian officials want them dead.

There are Jews in Egypt? Got any statements from Egyptian and Turkish officials to prove your point here? Maybe some videos from MEMRI?

[Brian4Liberty]

No. "Māwt/موت" means "death" in Arabic, "-lī" the particle for "To" and then the name "Isreal", Arabic is a very straight-forward language, I assure you, they don't men "Screw you". موت لاسرائيل isn't like جهاد which can mean quite a few things or like مجنون which can either be taken lightly as a joke but still taken very serious as an insult in certain situations.

Just because its as common as "Screw you-" is to American-English doesn't make it the equivalent, that would more likely be 'Kūṣ ūmmāk' or hitting with the bottom of a shoe perhaps. Since the words "Screw" has no adianoeta like ours, it'd be equivalent to "$#@! You" but doesn't mean the same.

Uh, yeah, I know it translates literally to "death", and not to "screw". I could have just as easily used the word "$#@!" as you did. I used that as an example of a similar thought in English. Of course it's not a term of endearment either way.

After a quick search, I found this. Perhaps his example is better.

[GuerrillaXXI]

Do you realize that in Iran, there are Jews?

Exactly. There's been a substantial Jewish community living there for quite a long time, and from everything I've heard, they're left alone to live their lives in peace. If Ahmadinejad is the Next Hitler, as neocon Jews want everyone to believe, and if he wants to kill all Jews, then why hasn't he started by killing off all the Jews in his own country? It makes no sense. The truth is that Ahmadinejad is simply opposed to Zionism and the crimes of Israel, and rightfully so.

Also, a lot of people have condemned Ahmadinejad as a "Holocaust denier." Even if he is, I'd like to ask: So f-cking what? Should the opinion of a foreign leader on a subject of recent history be considered justifiable grounds for military hostilities? Only a Jewish supremacist could possible think so. Indeed, Jewish supremacists have successfully pushed to make any questioning of the Holocaust (e.g., claiming that fewer than 6 million Jews were killed) a thoughtcrime subject to honest-to-goodness prison time in several European countries:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holocau...locaust_denial

[dannno]

$#@! all the bull$#@! arguments in this thread.

Josalyn, honestly, I can't take anything you say seriously.

Do you want to know why?

Because you act like Muslims act a certain way because of their genetics or something. You don't understand that they act a certain way not just because of their religion, but their environment, religion being a part of that.. however you don't consider that their environment has been highly affected by outside forces which has caused the vast majority of violence and hatred that you seem to attribute essentially to their skin color.

Anybody under the age of 35 can pick out your hate speech from a mile away and most don't buy it. Do you have any idea how many peaceful Muslim communities and cultures exist? They are peaceful because nobody is $#@!ing with them. It is because the IDF doesn't knock down their doors on alternate Wednesdays and harass their children, kick them out of their houses, steal their land, etc. They don't have U.S. bases in their backyard who either bomb them, prop up a puppet dictator in their country or carry out sanctions which ensure their poverty and the confiscation of the precious resources that come out of the ground beneath them.

Try and look at the situation from their perspective and you will see that the reason some Muslims hate Jews is the same god damn reason why some Jews hate Muslims. It is because you collectivize their entire civilization and you are racists.

$#@!. This $#@! isn't that complicated.

/rant

[kill the banks]

http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.p...xt=va&aid=4527

[No Free Beer]

As someone said above, the Jews aren't bothered in Iran. To make another point, there are Jews in Iran who cry "death to Israel" because they consider themselves Iranian before they consider themselves a part of Israel. You must understand, being Jewish is different than being Israeli. The point of MA (whether rightfully or not) is not nec to go after Jews because they are Jews, but because Israel is more for domination that it is being Jewish. Go on YouTube and watch videos of Orthodox Jews protesting their own government (Israel).

[Josalyn]

There are Jews in Egypt? Got any statements from Egyptian and Turkish officials to prove your point here? Maybe some videos from MEMRI?

Simple demographics. A demographic of the year 2007 shows there are a miniscule amount of Jews and Christians in Turkey, 0.2 % of them. (Source)(Source II)

And are a minority in Egypt. No matter how few; they are there. (Source)

So yes, there ARE Jews in Turkey and Egypt. But nice attempt at ignoring what I said and derailing. I can see where this will go for the next few posts

But there have been quite a few slaughters of Christians and Jews since then, so who knows if they are still there.

Uh, yeah, I know it translates literally to "death", and not to "screw". I could have just as easily used the word "$#@!" as you did. I used that as an example of a similar thought in English. Of course it's not a term of endearment either way.

After a quick search, I found this. Perhaps his example is better.

Let alone how ridiculous this video was, I mean honestly, just because they spout "Death to so and so" as frequently as we do with "Screw" or "Damn", in no way means its a light-hearted manner. It just shows how deeply rooted violence is over there.

Are you really comparing frustration with Traffic to a President that had just called America a "criminal" and followed it up by screaming "Death to Israel!" that was followed by cheering crowds? Are you comparing a government official to a Taxi driver? On one hand we have a very serious figure on the other you have a guy who offers transportation, kinda explains itself. That's pretty far-fetched. Let alone the question of this guys credibility.

So again, just because its as common to them as "Screw you" is to us: doesn't mean the meaning changes at all.

Let alone the lack of explanation for why Ali Khamenei said what he said about Israeli's not being their friends and so on.

Also, a lot of people have condemned Ahmadinejad as a "Holocaust denier." Even if he is, I'd like to ask: So f-cking what? Should the opinion of a foreign leader on a subject of recent history be considered justifiable grounds for military hostilities? Only a Jewish supremacist could possible think so. Indeed, Jewish supremacists have successfully pushed to make any questioning of the Holocaust (e.g., claiming that fewer than 6 million Jews were killed) a thoughtcrime subject to honest-to-goodness prison time in several European countries:

I highly doubt anyone listed him denying the holocaust as a reason for sanctions or military hostility -- not like here has been. The reason for his intentions being questions were because he shouted "Death to Israel" and similar things. Hey, speaking of thought-crime's; you can't even question the Ayatollah or the Qur'an in many Middle-Eastern countries, but that's not what we're talking about we're talking about Ahmedinejad's intentions towards Israel.

Josalyn, honestly, I can't take anything you say seriously.

Do you want to know why?

Because you act like Muslims act a certain way because of their genetics or something. You don't understand that they act a certain way not just because of their religion, but their environment, religion being a part of that.. however you don't consider that their environment has been highly affected by outside forces which has caused the vast majority of violence and hatred that you seem to attribute essentially to their skin color.

Likewise you sir, likewise you. No, I could care a less about why either.

Whoa! Who said anything about Muslims? I think you need to step back and take a breather before you jump down a path you can't come back from, eh? I mean honestly where did all of this come from, we are talking about Arabs and Ahmedinejad and possibly Ali Khamenei.

Their environment is Islamic so either way I don't know what you are talking about or even trying to get at, honestly. But your vitriol is duly noted.

Who said anything about skin color? Don't you think your jumping the gun just a little bit?

Anybody under the age of 35 can pick out your hate speech from a mile away and most don't buy it. Do you have any idea how many peaceful Muslim communities and cultures exist? They are peaceful because nobody is $#@!ing with them. It is because the IDF doesn't knock down their doors on alternate Wednesdays and harass their children, kick them out of their houses, steal their land, etc. They don't have U.S. bases in their backyard who either bomb them, prop up a puppet dictator in their country or carry out sanctions which ensure their poverty and the confiscation of the precious resources that come out of the ground beneath them.

Hate speech? Really I haven't said anything about Muslims, only the Ayatollah and Iranian President, yet here you are pissing and moaning about Muslims, which I never brought up in the first place. We were talking about Arabs and the Iranian President.

Have you ever even read the Qur'an? Have you ever even touched one, have you read a Hadith or anything of the like, before you jump down my throat?

The fact that you even insinuate that people deserve to be attacked for Religious hatred is ludicrous and ignorant all together. This goes much more far back then today, back before the Crusades.

Try and look at the situation from their perspective and you will see that the reason some Muslims hate Jews is the same god damn reason why some Jews hate Muslims. It is because you collectivize their entire civilization and you are racists.

Really, I'm a racist? Why is it when ever anyone says something someone can't cope or combat all of a sudden they are a racist or a bigot, you know how ignorant you sound? Do you? Because you are hitting the roof of the Ignorance house. I have looked at it from their perspective and so has my Mother, Uncle, Grandmother and Grandfather during the Revolution, they had many friends over their; so you sir have no clue of which you speak.

A religion isn't a civilization, Islam isn't a civilization its a Religion.

Its not that complicated why don't you go and read a Qur'an or maybe educate yourself before you accuse people of being Racist.

So, ahem, excuse you. You have shown how much free speech you can take until you start pissing your pants like a child about racism and hate-speech. You don't even understand what is being discussed, so I don't know why I am even bothering with you.

[ExPatPaki]

Got any statements from Egyptian and Turkish officials to prove your point here? Maybe some videos from MEMRI?

Josalyn, where are the sources of Egyptian and Turkish officials which you said want the Jews dead?

This is what you said:

There are Jews in Egypt and Turkey - and a VAST majority of Turkish officials and Egyptian officials want them dead.

Do you have any quotes from Egyptian and Turkish officials to prove your point?

Your little Egypt source only says that the Egyptian government recognizes Judaism, it says nothing about Jews actually living there in 2011. There's nothing about demographics either.

[Brian4Liberty]

Let alone how ridiculous this video was, I mean honestly, just because they spout "Death to so and so" as frequently as we do with "Screw" or "Damn", in no way means its a light-hearted manner. It just shows how deeply rooted violence is over there.

Are you really comparing frustration with Traffic to a President that had just called America a "criminal" and followed it up by screaming "Death to Israel!" that was followed by cheering crowds?

OK, so the little gremlin Ahmadinejad scared you, called you names and doesn't like you. What do you propose that the US do about that?

[ExPatPaki]

OK, so the little gremlin Ahmadinejad scared you, called you names and doesn't like you. What do you propose that the US do about that?

Well he seems to consider Israel a really awesome and super cool ally of the US, and if the ally is threatened then we should do something about it.

You know like how that dude Hitler was a huge douche-bag and it was totally necessary for the US to get involved in WWII to thwart evil? I mean don't you realize that we would talking in German right now if the US stayed out of WWII? I mean come on, B4L, do you like not read any comic books? You're not an isolationist now are you? Cos you know he's gonna come after us after Israel is destroyed.

[vita3]

Saudi Arabia has no Jeish communities

[oyarde]

OK, so the little gremlin Ahmadinejad scared you, called you names and doesn't like you. What do you propose that the US do about that?

He does not scare me .

[dannno]

Whoa! Who said anything about Muslims? I think you need to step back and take a breather before you jump down a path you can't come back from, eh? I mean honestly where did all of this come from, we are talking about Arabs and Ahmedinejad and possibly Ali Khamenei.

Their environment is Islamic so either way I don't know what you are talking about or even trying to get at, honestly. But your vitriol is duly noted.

Who said anything about skin color? Don't you think your jumping the gun just a little bit?

Hate speech? Really I haven't said anything about Muslims, only the Ayatollah and Iranian President, yet here you are pissing and moaning about Muslims, which I never brought up in the first place. We were talking about Arabs and the Iranian President.

Have you ever even read the Qur'an? Have you ever even touched one, have you read a Hadith or anything of the like, before you jump down my throat?

Wow, what a manipulative, hypocritical set of sentences you wrote there

Just like pretty much everything else you write.

The fact that you even insinuate that people deserve to be attacked for Religious hatred is ludicrous and ignorant all together. This goes much more far back then today, back before the Crusades.

Hah, that's some pretty piss-poor reading comprehension.. either that or you are an op who is being purposefully being manipulative and accusatory in order to interject massive amounts of confusion into the discussion.

Really, I'm a racist? Why is it when ever anyone says something someone can't cope or combat all of a sudden they are a racist or a bigot, you know how ignorant you sound? Do you? Because you are hitting the roof of the Ignorance house. I have looked at it from their perspective and so has my Mother, Uncle, Grandmother and Grandfather during the Revolution, they had many friends over their; so you sir have no clue of which you speak.

The most racist people come out of these types of situations, most unfortunately. I suppose it is why some of the offspring of Holocaust survivors have justified putting other groups of people in concentration camps and committing genocide against them. Trust me, I feel bad for everybody on all sides. I just do not condone the type of speech that groups people together and condones aggressive violence against them and calls it 'defense'.

Its not that complicated why don't you go and read a Qur'an or maybe educate yourself before you accuse people of being Racist.

Why should I read the Qur'an? So I can find out why you hate Muslims so much and why their religion should be eradicated?

So, ahem, excuse you. You have shown how much free speech you can take until you start pissing your pants like a child about racism and hate-speech. You don't even understand what is being discussed, so I don't know why I am even bothering with you.

I know precisely what is being discussed, it just doesn't make very much sense to discuss it with somebody who is bigoted against a group of people without at least pointing that out first, especially when they are rabid obfuscators.

[oyarde]

Mistranslated quote aside.

Ahmedinejad has still said this of his own words, mind you - موت لاسرائيل /Māwt-lī Isrāel - easily translated to "Death to Israel" not to a regime or governmental leader, the actual country's name.


Even if I believe letting Israel defend itself is the better option, no one can deny Ahmadinejads intentions toward Israel, as well as whether or not he's just giving lip-service on the matter.



Who cares? Even if I still believe he IS a denier of the holocaust -- he has said much crazier things like people stealing Irans rain or an Octopuss being an evil-such and such

.

Tell him I will sell him some rain

[oyarde]

Ummmmm....you realize the president of Iran has no military powers? People follow Pat Robertson too but I don't worry about him saying Hugo Chavez should be assassinated. (Maybe I should?) Anyway it's a misquote. Amadinejad didn't saying anything worse towards Israel than Bush had already said towards Iran (regime change).

True , he has no power , but , many of the people would believe anything he says because it is sort of a basis in Shia Twelver religion that the leaders are selected by God and infallible ..