Results 1 to 4 of 4

Thread: Ron Paul Says We Subsidize German Socialism. Do We Really? (Analysis and Conclusion)

  1. #1
    1836
    Member

    Ron Paul Says We Subsidize German Socialism. Do We Really? (Analysis and Conclusion)

    The short answer is, Yes.
    However short answers rarely suffice, so I have done the research to bolster Dr. Paul's point that we subsidize German socialism through our military expenditures. Feel free to use this information to support the idea that Ron Paul has incredible depth of insight into our foreign policy, even on such a minute level as EU troop deployment and its economic effects.


    US Spending on Bases in Germany Versus German Military Spending

    German Active Duty Soldiers
    Army: 74,287
    Air Force: 35,752
    Navy: 15,916
    source: Federal Ministry of Defence, Germany

    US Troops in Germany
    Army: Approximately 50,000
    Air Force: Approximately 15,000
    sources: Slate Magazine, Die Welt (German)

    German spending on the military in 2011 is projected to be about $41.2bn, or €31.54bn. Germany contributes about $1bn towards U.S. base upkeep. However, the United States spends approximately $1bn maintaining Ramstein Air Base alone, and the 43 other bases cost about $240m each. source: German Information Center, citing a Council on Foreign Relations Report

    Analysis:
    All told, the United States spends somewhere north of $11 billion maintaining bases in Germany.
    Comparing that to the $41.2 billion Germany spends on its own military, we contribute another 20 percent more, or one-quarter of what they spend on their own military. It's hard to say that we don't contribute to Germany's having to spend less on their own military. The numbers bear it out.

    US Troops' Economic Impact On German Economy

    Heritage Foundation Finds a Relationship
    The presence of U.S. troops boosts economic growth in host countries. There is a positive unconditional relationship between troop deployments and growth, based on data from 94 countries, and there is also a positive condi tional relationship that factors in other explana tory variables like war, political stability, and initial gross domestic product (GDP) levels. For example, a deployment of 500,000 U.S. troops to a host country spread over five decades (10,000 per year) is associated with an increase of 1 percent annual GDP growth per capita.
    ...
    Our hypothesis is that international deployments of U.S. military personnel exert a positive causal effect on the growth rates of host countries. Japan and Germany experienced miraculous economic expansions in the decades following World War II. In both cases, a U.S. military occupation coexisted with a massive U.S. effort to reconstruct the politi cal and economic systems of these countries.
    ...
    source: The Heritage Foundation

    Analysis:
    Given the fact that the United States conservatively has about 65,000 troops in Germany, we can safely assume that the economic impact is significantly greater than the 1 percent GDP effect that US troops have in Germany. Heritage's analysis does not reveal the numbers specifically for Germany, so we must infer. That doesn't mean it is a 6.5% GDP increase per annum that can be correlated with troop deployment levels in Germany, but it is surely higher - and the Heritage Foundation data shows this, as Germany is the single non-mission country overseas in which the U.S. has the highest troop deployment at a given time. To put it another way, since WWII, Germany has had more US troops stationed than any other nation on a regular basis.

    Proposed Troop Reduction Estimates Economic Loss in German Newspaper

    From earlier this year:

    The German press is full of reports of the United States further reducing the number of troops it has based in Germany. For example, yesterday's Die Welt newspaper reports 5,507 U.S. troops will be withdrawn from Baden-Württemberg and Hessen, citing Wikileaks.

    Germany has over 52,000 US troops stationed in its territory, second only to Afghanistan with 71,000, according to Die Welt. In addition to the withdrawal of U.S. troops, the number of US civilian employees will be reduced by 2,991, "other positions in the host country" by 1,973 and German local hires by around 1,300, the newspaper reports.

    But the last 20 U.S. B61 nuclear bombs purported to be stored in Büchel, Rheinland-Palatinate, will reportedly remain, while a new US operational headquarters is being stood up in Wiesbaden in 2012 with 1,000 civilian positions and 230 local hires.

    Die Welt estimates Mannheim will lose six million euros and Heidelberg 7.5 million euros in annual tax revenues from supermarkets, small businesses and restaurants as a result.
    sources: Aviation Week, Die Welt (German), Die Welt (English translation by Babelfish)

    From this newspaper report, we know that a reduction of 5,507 troops results in an estimated tax loss to Germany of €13.5 million. Other reductions totaling 4,964 civilian and other personnel are mentioned; to factor in the other personnel, we shall estimate that the 5,507 troops and their families account for a tax loss of approximately 7 million euros on the high end, and on the low end, perhaps 6 million euros.

    Given our low estimate of 65,000 troops in Germany from earlier, 5,507 troops represents about 8.47% of the force that we have had there. Given the two estimates of 7 million and 6 million euros for the liberal and conservative estimates respectively:

    8.47x = 7,000,000 (100) = ~ €82.64m ($114,596,888)
    8.47x = 6,000,000 (100) = ~ €70.84m ($98,233,828)

    Analysis:
    The active duty troops and their families that have been stationed in Germany are funding the German government, at a minimum, between 70.8 million and 82.6 million euros per year.

    Germany's 2010 budget was approximately €325.4bn. As a result, our troops' spending make up around 0.025% of Germany's revenue. Does that seem significant? Perhaps it doesn't... but consider this: if we were to apply the same percentage to U.S. tax revenue in 2010 ($2.16 trillion) we would come up with $540,000,000. Not huge money in terms of our federal leviathan, but sufficiently enough for someone to say that it certainly has an impact upon our revenues. When you consider that Germany's tax revenues are only a small amount of the total amount spent by our troops in Germany, you realize that the total economic impact they have is in fact far greater.

    Considering total spending by us into Germany, it is hard to conclude anything other than we are expatriating billions of dollars.

    Conclusion
    Ron Paul is right about us subsidizing Germany.
    By spending about one-quarter on our bases in Germany of what Germany itself spends on its entire military budget, we give them plenty of reasons to want to keep us - and plenty of extra money that they don't have to spend further bolstering their own defenses.
    Last edited by 1836; 10-23-2011 at 02:07 AM.



  2. Remove this section of ads by registering.
  3. #2
    I am sure the same can be said of Israel, But of course - if one did, he/she would be labeled an anti-semite.

    We subsidize them to the tune of billions a year in military and other... Be nice to chart that out too. And I believe they are of a socialistic bent.

  4. #3
    1836
    Member

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Xar View Post
    I am sure the same can be said of Israel, But of course - if one did, he/she would be labeled an anti-semite.

    We subsidize them to the tune of billions a year in military and other... Be nice to chart that out too. And I believe they are of a socialistic bent.
    There's no doubt we do this to other countries. I went through the figures on Germany because Germany was mentioned by Ron Paul and some guy started a thread to say "hey, what's this claim all about."

  5. #4
    Cool info. It should be pretty obvious that we are subsidizing them (apparently not though given the other thread on this), but its always nice to know just how much its costing us. +rep
    It's all about taking action and not being lazy. So you do the work, whether it's fitness or whatever. It's about getting up, motivating yourself and just doing it.
    - Kim Kardashian

    Donald Trump / Crenshaw 2024!!!!

    My pronouns are he/him/his



Similar Threads

  1. Replies: 7
    Last Post: 06-06-2016, 11:45 AM
  2. German Court: CIA Abducted, Tortured and Sodomized a German Citizen
    By Constitutional Paulicy in forum U.S. Political News
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: 12-15-2012, 05:53 PM
  3. Replies: 9
    Last Post: 06-02-2010, 10:09 AM
  4. Replies: 8
    Last Post: 03-07-2010, 12:10 PM
  5. Replies: 18
    Last Post: 08-22-2007, 11:19 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •