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Thread: Good reasons NOT to vote.

  1. #1

    Good reasons NOT to vote.

    https://www.libertarianism.org/colum...asons-not-vote

    Furthermore, because it is seen as justifying nearly any government action, voting can also be dangerous. People have been talking about this since America’s founding. James Madison was terrified of voters, so he wanted filtering mechanisms and representatives. The Progressives were terrified of voters, so they built the administrative state to remove some questions from politics.
    All the while our government has grown to be the most powerful organization in the history of humankind, controlling our daily lives to an unimaginable and unacceptable degree, and making us hate each other in the process.
    And why can it do this? Voting. The fetishization of voting buttresses the idea that voting is adequate check on government and a justification for whatever government does. But many of things we vote on are beyond the legitimate power of government. We need to step back from the fetishizing voting and instead accurately characterize it as a weak and inadequate form of collective choice that cannot effectively support the weight of the governments claiming legitimacy from it.

    In a sense, the problem with voting as practiced today is that people take it too seriously as a means for achieving good governance. They invest it with too much meaning. When abstaining doesn’t make things worse and voting doesn’t make things better, by making the principled choice not to participate in a false show of public spiritedness, we can take some of the air out of big government sales.
    Just because everyone else is praising the emperor’s clothes doesn’t mean you have to.
    Last edited by Pauls' Revere; 02-02-2020 at 10:57 PM.

    We're being governed ruled by a geriatric Alzheimer patient/puppet whose strings are being pulled by an elitist oligarchy who believe they can manage the world... imagine the utter maniacal, sociopathic hubris!



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  3. #2
    ...
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Does Voting Mean You Support the Regime?

    Nothing about this little anecdote would strike most people as remarkable in any way.
    Since at least the nineteenth century, though, there has been a debate over whether or not voting somehow means the voter has agreed to submit to — or even support — whatever the state does. In some cases, libertarians and anarchists who agree with the "voting = consent" claim conclude that voting is therefore immoral, or perhaps even a form of violence.
    Anarchist extraordinaire Lysander Spooner, however, disagreed:
    It cannot be said that, by voting, a man pledges himself to the Constitution, unless the act of voting be a perfectly voluntary one on his part. Yet the act of voting cannot properly be called a voluntary one on the part of any very large number of those who do vote. It is rather a measure of necessity imposed upon them by others, than one of their own choice.
    In other words, let's imagine a small business owner were given the choice between Candidate A who promises to tax small businesses into oblivion, and Candidate B, who promises to lower taxes. It hardly follows that the small business owner who casts a ballot in this case was supporting the whole system and apparatus that had put him in such an unenviable position to begin with.
    Spooner continues:
    In truth, in the case of individuals, their actual voting is not to be taken as proof of consent, even for the time being. On the contrary, it is to be considered that, without his consent having even been asked, a man finds himself environed by a government that he cannot resist; a government that forces him to pay money, render service, and forego the exercise of many of his natural rights, under peril of weighty punishments. He sees, too, that other men practice this tyranny over him by the use of the ballot. He sees further, that, if he will but use the ballot himself, he has some chance of relieving himself from this tyranny of others, by subjecting them to his own. In short, he finds himself, without his consent, so situated that, if he use the ballot, he may become a master; if he does not use it, he must become a slave. And he has no other alternative than these two. In self-defence, he attempts the former.
    ...it would not, therefore, be a legitimate inference that the government itself, that crushes [the voters], was one which they had voluntarily set up, or even consented to.
    In fact, when one adopts the position that voting indicates consent to the regime and all its acts, one is agreeing with the state's apologists who repeatedly assert that, yes, voting means the voter acquiesces to the results of the election and the state overall.
    They don't stop there, though. Herbert Spencer notes that, in the minds of the voting-as-consent ideologues, not voting counts as consent too. As does voting against the victorious side in any election. Thus, it is claimed:
    [T]he citizen is understood to have assented to everything his representative may do, when he voted for him.
    But suppose he did not vote for him; and on the contrary did all in his power to get elected some one holding opposite views – what then?
    The reply will probably be that, by taking part in such an election, he tacitly agreed to abide by the decision of the majority.
    And how if he did not vote at all?
    Why then he cannot justly complain of any tax, seeing that he made no protest against its imposition.
    So, curiously enough, it seems that he gave his consent in whatever way he acted – whether he said yes, whether he said no, or whether he remained neuter!
    A rather awkward doctrine this.
    Here stands an unfortunate citizen who is asked if he will pay money for a certain proffered advantage; and whether he employs the only means of expressing his refusal or does not employ it, we are told that he practically agrees; if only the number of others who agree is greater than the number of those who dissent.
    And thus we are introduced to the novel principle that A’s consent to a thing is not determined by what A says, but by what B may happen to say!
    The only alternative, we are told, is to move thousands of miles from friends, family, and property, learn a new culture (and probably a new language), and take up residence under a different regime..
    To define consent in this manner, though, sets the bar of consent so low as to render it utterly meaningless.
    "No" Doesn't Mean "No" After All?

    The horrors of such a definition can be plainly seen if applied to the case of women and sexual consent. By the logic of the sort of "consent" Spencer describes, we are forced to conclude: if a women says "yes," she consents. If she says "no," she also consents. If she can't run away, then she's still consenting.
    One suspects that this would not be a terribly successful argument if employed by a rapist in a court of law.
    And yet, here we are, being told that no matter what you do at election time, nothing — short of self-imposed exile —is to be interpreted as actual opposition to the state.

    More at: https://mises.org/wire/no-voting-doe...support-system
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  4. #3
    Voting can make things better and abstaining can make things worse.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  5. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Pauls' Revere View Post
    And why can it do this? Voting.
    I can and will do it without voting as thousands of years of history prove.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  6. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Voting can make things better and abstaining can make things worse.
    The only alternative, we are told, is to move thousands of miles from friends, family, and property, learn a new culture (and probably a new language), and take up residence under a different regime..
    To define consent in this manner, though, sets the bar of consent so low as to render it utterly meaningless.
    "No" Doesn't Mean "No" After All?

    The horrors of such a definition can be plainly seen if applied to the case of women and sexual consent. By the logic of the sort of "consent" Spencer describes, we are forced to conclude: if a women says "yes," she consents. If she says "no," she also consents. If she can't run away, then she's still consenting.
    One suspects that this would not be a terribly successful argument if employed by a rapist in a court of law.
    And yet, here we are, being told that no matter what you do at election time, nothing — short of self-imposed exile —is to be interpreted as actual opposition to the state.


    The trifecta catch-22.

    We're being governed ruled by a geriatric Alzheimer patient/puppet whose strings are being pulled by an elitist oligarchy who believe they can manage the world... imagine the utter maniacal, sociopathic hubris!

  7. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Pauls' Revere View Post
    The only alternative, we are told, is to move thousands of miles from friends, family, and property, learn a new culture (and probably a new language), and take up residence under a different regime..
    To define consent in this manner, though, sets the bar of consent so low as to render it utterly meaningless.
    "No" Doesn't Mean "No" After All?

    The horrors of such a definition can be plainly seen if applied to the case of women and sexual consent. By the logic of the sort of "consent" Spencer describes, we are forced to conclude: if a women says "yes," she consents. If she says "no," she also consents. If she can't run away, then she's still consenting.
    One suspects that this would not be a terribly successful argument if employed by a rapist in a court of law.
    And yet, here we are, being told that no matter what you do at election time, nothing — short of self-imposed exile —is to be interpreted as actual opposition to the state.


    The trifecta catch-22.
    Since you can't get out of the catch 22 then the best thing to do is to try and improve things even if you can't improve them much.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  8. #7
    I hate to tell you but even if you don't vote the government assumes you consent.

    Adam Kokesh is often rebellious to the point of being counter-productive but the one thing he's ever said that stuck with me was when he was talking about people who decided to show government who was boss by not voting (as if they care):

    "You don't do politics. That's okay. Politics will do you."

    Last edited by nobody's_hero; 02-03-2020 at 06:55 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by timosman View Post
    This is getting silly.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    It started silly.
    T.S. Eliot's The Hollow Men

    "One of the penalties for refusing to participate in politics is that you end up being governed by your inferiors." - Plato

    We Are Running Out of Time - Mini Me

    Quote Originally Posted by Philhelm
    I part ways with "libertarianism" when it transitions from ideology grounded in logic into self-defeating autism for the sake of ideological purity.

  9. #8
    Voting only works if the candidates represent real substantial changes. It's the work that leads up to it that counts. Too much emphasis is put on pulling a lever one day in November every year. People think that magically makes them free. If all the work in the 3 to 4 years prior to the lever pull do not produce a candidate and all the candidates on the ballot are total suck then me staying home has little impact on anything.
    The wisdom of Swordy:

    On bringing the troops home
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    They are coming home, all the naysayers said they would never leave Syria and then they said they were going to stay in Iraq forever.

    It won't take very long to get them home but it won't be overnight either but Iraq says they can't stay and they are coming home just like Trump said.

    On fighting corruption:
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Trump had to donate the "right way" and hang out with the "right people" in order to do business in NYC and Hollyweird and in order to investigate and expose them.
    Fascism Defined



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  11. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by nobody's_hero View Post
    I hate to tell you but even if you don't vote the government assumes you consent.

    Adam Kokesh is often rebellious to the point of being counter-productive but the one thing he's ever said that stuck with me was when he was talking about people who decided to show government who was boss by not voting (as if they care):

    "You don't do politics. That's okay. Politics will do you."


    I can agree with that, even if it does feel like people are just kindly asking for a reach-around while being poked in the butt.

    One of my favorites regarding the vote:

    “The people who cast the votes decide nothing. The people who count the votes decide everything.”—Joseph Stalin

    We aren't counting the votes, much less deciding on who the candidates are.

    He has erected a multitude of New Offices, and sent hither swarms of Officers to harrass our people, and eat out their substance.

  12. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Voting can make things better and abstaining can make things worse.
    Voting can also make things worse, while abstaining can make things better. (Propagandists have a more difficult time manufacturing consent when less than half of the eligible citizens choose to participate.)

    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Since you can't get out of the catch 22 then the best thing to do is to try and improve things even if you can't improve them much.
    Indeed. Voting is unnecessary.

  13. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Proph View Post
    Voting can also make things worse, while abstaining can make things better. (Propagandists have a more difficult time manufacturing consent when less than half of the eligible citizens choose to participate.)


    Indeed. Voting is unnecessary.
    Abstaining can't make things better.
    Even if nobody but the politicians and their family and friends voted the system would go on and use force to maintain itself.
    And you will never get most people to not vote.

    Voting for the best option to improve things is best and if there is only a "lesser of two evils" then a protest vote for a 3rd party at least sends a message.

    Not voting is political silence and is taken as consent.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  14. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Pauls' Revere View Post
    The only alternative, we are told, is to move thousands of miles from friends, family, and property, learn a new culture (and probably a new language), and take up residence under a different regime..
    To define consent in this manner, though, sets the bar of consent so low as to render it utterly meaningless.
    "No" Doesn't Mean "No" After All?

    The horrors of such a definition can be plainly seen if applied to the case of women and sexual consent. By the logic of the sort of "consent" Spencer describes, we are forced to conclude: if a women says "yes," she consents. If she says "no," she also consents. If she can't run away, then she's still consenting.
    One suspects that this would not be a terribly successful argument if employed by a rapist in a court of law.
    And yet, here we are, being told that no matter what you do at election time, nothing — short of self-imposed exile —is to be interpreted as actual opposition to the state.


    The trifecta catch-22.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Since you can't get out of the catch 22 then the best thing to do is to try and improve things even if you can't improve them much.
    Quote Originally Posted by Proph View Post
    Voting can also make things worse, while abstaining can make things better. (Propagandists have a more difficult time manufacturing consent when less than half of the eligible citizens choose to participate.)


    Indeed. Voting is unnecessary.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Abstaining can't make things better.
    Even if nobody but the politicians and their family and friends voted the system would go on and use force to maintain itself.
    And you will never get most people to not vote.

    Voting for the best option to improve things is best and if there is only a "lesser of two evils" then a protest vote for a 3rd party at least sends a message.

    Not voting is political silence and is taken as consent.
    If voting makes things worse -- which, the unilateral use of force almost always does -- then certainly abstinence is a favorable alternative. (Never mind the wasted energy!)

    The concept of voting is antithetical to peaceful solutions. (All this "Might makes right!" nonsense reminds me of S1E23 -- A Taste of Armageddon -- of Star Trek.)
    Last edited by Proph; 02-03-2020 at 07:41 PM.

  15. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Proph View Post
    If voting makes things worse -- which, the unilateral use of force almost always does -- then certainly abstinence is a favorable alternative. (Never mind the wasted energy!)

    The concept of voting is antithetical to peaceful solutions. (All this "Might makes right!" nonsense reminds me of S1E23 -- A Taste of Armageddon -- of Star Trek.)
    Voting the wrong way makes things worse, not voting doesn't ever make things better.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  16. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Proph View Post

    The concept of voting is antithetical to peaceful solutions. (All this "Might makes right!" nonsense reminds me of S1E23 -- A Taste of Armageddon -- of Star Trek.)
    Might may not always make right but it makes fact, bad people will always use force and force must be used against them.
    Might for right is the answer.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  17. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Voting the wrong way makes things worse, not voting doesn't ever make things better.
    Saying that there is a "wrong way" to vote implies that a "right way" exists. It doesn't. (Coercion is wrong, period. More participation reinforces that illusion of choice.)

    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Might may not always make right but it makes fact, bad people will always use force and force must be used against them.
    Might for right is the answer.
    The concept of voting ought to be relegated to history's garbage bin of failed ideologies by now.

    The only acceptable use of force is in self defense. (But, "live by the sword; die by the sword.")

  18. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Proph View Post
    Saying that there is a "wrong way" to vote implies that a "right way" exists. It doesn't. (Coercion is wrong, period. More participation reinforces that illusion of choice.)


    The concept of voting ought to be relegated to history's garbage bin of failed ideologies by now.

    The only acceptable use of force is in self defense. (But, "live by the sword; die by the sword.")
    Snort.

    People like you have never succeeded anywhere and you never will.

    You won't accept anything but perfection and prefer anti-perfection to incremental progress, and to make things worse your idea of perfection is based on a false concept of the possible and willful ignorance of human nature.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment



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  20. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Snort.

    People like you have never succeeded anywhere and you never will.

    You won't accept anything but perfection and prefer anti-perfection to incremental progress, and to make things worse your idea of perfection is based on a false concept of the possible and willful ignorance of human nature.
    Be careful, your collectivist tendencies are showing!

    How about instead of expecting broken institutions to change, you inspire some real world change yourself? (Maybe that's what you think you're doing by arguing on the Internet...)

    Whatever you -- both Swordsmyth and the casual reader -- do, enjoy it!

  21. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Slave Mentality View Post
    I can agree with that, even if it does feel like people are just kindly asking for a reach-around while being poked in the butt.

    One of my favorites regarding the vote:

    “The people who cast the votes decide nothing. The people who count the votes decide everything.”—Joseph Stalin

    We aren't counting the votes, much less deciding on who the candidates are.
    "The Patriarch"

  22. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Snort.

    People like you have never succeeded anywhere and you never will.

    You won't accept anything but perfection and prefer anti-perfection to incremental progress, and to make things worse your idea of perfection is based on a false concept of the possible and willful ignorance of human nature.
    Succeeded at what? Are you saying there never has been and never will be people successful at life that chose not to vote for which ruler they will have? You still have a bad habit of stating your opinions as facts.
    "The Patriarch"

  23. #20
    Supporting Member
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    olehounddog's Avatar


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    I just don't want to.

  24. #21
    What if nobody voted?

    We're being governed ruled by a geriatric Alzheimer patient/puppet whose strings are being pulled by an elitist oligarchy who believe they can manage the world... imagine the utter maniacal, sociopathic hubris!

  25. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Origanalist View Post
    Succeeded at what? Are you saying there never has been and never will be people successful at life that chose not to vote for which ruler they will have? You still have a bad habit of stating your opinions as facts.
    There never has been and never will be an anarchist society that survives and retains its freedom.
    And it is exceedingly unlikely that one will ever be established in the future at all.
    And without an anarchist society those who refuse to participate in politics will not retain or expand their liberty.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  26. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Pauls' Revere View Post
    What if nobody voted?
    The politicians and their family and friends would vote and say everyone else had their chance.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  27. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    The politicians and their family and friends would vote and say everyone else had their chance.
    Sigh,...

    We're being governed ruled by a geriatric Alzheimer patient/puppet whose strings are being pulled by an elitist oligarchy who believe they can manage the world... imagine the utter maniacal, sociopathic hubris!



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  29. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    There never has been and never will be an anarchist society that survives and retains its freedom.
    And it is exceedingly unlikely that one will ever be established in the future at all.
    And without an anarchist society those who refuse to participate in politics will not retain or expand their liberty.
    Again stating your opinions as fact. Where is this magic crystal ball that lets you see into the future. It says a lot about this forum that opinions like this are just let go unchecked anymore. There used to be a general attitude that things could change, people could change, government could be put into it's proper place, or even changed entirely. Now it's just more of the old, tired, repeated political slogans of red team-blue team. Your attitude is so negative and subservient it's nauseating.

    If you really wanted less government you wouldn't be so quick to denigrate those who don't want any. After all, isn't that the direction you claim to want to go if not all the way? Wouldn't the idea of no government if it gained support move the government in the direction you claim to want?
    "The Patriarch"

  30. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Origanalist View Post
    Again stating your opinions as fact. Where is this magic crystal ball that lets you see into the future. It says a lot about this forum that opinions like this are just let go unchecked anymore. There used to be a general attitude that things could change, people could change, government could be put into it's proper place, or even changed entirely. Now it's just more of the old, tired, repeated political slogans of red team-blue team. Your attitude is so negative and subservient it's nauseating.

    If you really wanted less government you wouldn't be so quick to denigrate those who don't want any. After all, isn't that the direction you claim to want to go if not all the way? Wouldn't the idea of no government if it gained support move the government in the direction you claim to want?
    It is an analysis of facts, things can change and people can change but only so much, there can be no "New Anarchist Man" anymore than there could be a "New Soviet Man".

    I'm willing to work with anyone who is willing to try and reduce government at least until it is so small we can barely see it but those who are telling people to refrain from voting are negative and subversive, they hinder the movement by reducing its effect and by driving people away to standard Republicanism etc.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  31. #27
    You can be sure the bad guys always vote and they bring their friends. Whoever gets the most votes wins. Just think. We almost had Hillary for President.
    #NashvilleStrong

    “I’m a doctor. That’s a baby.”~~~Dr. Manny Sethi

  32. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    It is an analysis of facts, things can change and people can change but only so much, there can be no "New Anarchist Man" anymore than there could be a "New Soviet Man".

    I'm willing to work with anyone who is willing to try and reduce government at least until it is so small we can barely see it but those who are telling people to refrain from voting are negative and subversive, they hinder the movement by reducing its effect and by driving people away to standard Republicanism etc.
    Again stating your opinion as fact. It could also be true that your dismissive attitude drives people away that lean towards anarchism. There used to be a fairly large contingent here and I'm pretty damn sure a majority of them would have stuffed their principles to vote for RP.
    "The Patriarch"

  33. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Origanalist View Post
    Again stating your opinion as fact. It could also be true that your dismissive attitude drives people away that lean towards anarchism. There used to be a fairly large contingent here and I'm pretty damn sure a majority of them would have stuffed their principles to vote for RP.
    I'll worry about the many people who actually contribute to increasing liberty through the political process that get driven away by the extremist anarchists and let you worry about the very few extremist anarchists who don't contribute to increasing liberty through the political process except on special occasions that might get driven away.
    Last edited by Swordsmyth; 02-03-2020 at 10:26 PM.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  34. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    I'll worry about the many people who actually contribute to increasing liberty through the political process that get driven away by the extremist anarchists and let you worry about the very few extremist anarchists who don't contribute to increasing liberty through the political process except on special occasions that might get drive away.
    Oh really? How many here donate to anything anymore? How many here are willing to stick their neck out and put their lives on the line anymore? Where are all these "contributors" you speak of? I'll tell where, most of them are gone. There is only a handful left. There was one hell of a lot more when people like you weren't so worried about putting down the anarchists.
    "The Patriarch"

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