$#@! the whole region in general.Originally Posted by phill4paul
"Perhaps one of the most important accomplishments of my administration is minding my own business."
Calvin Coolidge
Don't need a weather man to know which way the wind blows
In March, 2017 Trump promised to be out of Syria "Very soon". In December 2018 he said they would be gone in 30 days. More saying one thing and doing something else. Meanwhile he has sent 14,000 more troops to the Middle East since May and is adding more to Saudi Arabia. http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...o-Saudi-Arabia
Amazing how Trump has changed the discourse. Just was listening to the Rush show with Mark Stein sitting in while running errands.
Here we have a conservative talk radio show host questioning why we are there in Syria in the first place. What is our national security interest? And why after 18 yrs. we are still in Afghanistan? Even mentioning that a child born on 9/11 would be donning a uniform and be deployed over there.
On the most listened to conservative talk show.
Questioning our M.E. involvement.
Amazing.
Last edited by phill4paul; 10-11-2019 at 01:06 PM.
Um- they weren't withdrawn. They were moved to another base in Syria. Syria had been relatively stable for a while (and the US advisers were not in any fighting) but moving them out of Turkey's way allowed the war in Syria to get re-started again and expand to include more countries. It did not bring home any Americans and it made the situation there worse.
It also didn't put them in harm's way. And if you think that is a bad thing then there is no hope for you.
They are no more in harms way than they were two weeks ago. No troops were withdrawn. The only thing which was changed was making room for Turkey to get into the war. But if that continues to escalate, it could put US troops in danger. It certainly harms the US reputation as somebody you can rely on.
So you would have rather Trump kept those troops where they were?
The US benefits from stability in the world. More countries buy our stuff which creates jobs here. It keeps the prices of inputs we need like oil lower as well which also benefits us. There are relatively few US military people in Syria and they are not in combat roles.
Trump said we don't have any soldiers in Syria anyways.
https://www.cnn.com/2019/10/10/polit...ria/index.html
Meanwhile he is sending thousands more to Saudi Arabia. He has sent 14,000 additional troops to the Middle East since May."We've won, we beat ISIS, and we beat 'em badly and decisively. We have no soldiers. The last thing I want to do is bring thousands and thousands of soldiers in and defeat everybody again. We've already done that," Trump said.
We have one of three choices: Send in thousands of troops and win Militarily, hit Turkey very hard Financially and with Sanctions, or mediate a deal between Turkey and the Kurds!
Last edited by Zippyjuan; 10-11-2019 at 02:39 PM.
Back when Obama put an emphasis on drone strikes, I don't remember posters here cheering him on for doing something that would only shed the blood of foreigners and not Americans.
Trump drone strikes are the best. Much better than Obama. But he doesn't want you to know about it. He halted requirements that attacks and casualty counts be reported. To further hide things, he turned the program over to the CIA. Less pesky oversight.
https://chicago.suntimes.com/news/20...bama-s-numbers
Under Donald Trump, drone strikes far exceed Obama’s numbers
The Trump administration has carried out 176 strikes in Yemen in just two years, compared with 154 there during all eight years of Obama’s tenure, according to a count by The Associated Press and the Bureau of Investigative Journalism.
Experts also say drone strikes under President Trump have surged in Afghanistan, Iraq and Syria.
And, as was the case during Obama’s presidency, these strikes have resulted in untold numbers of civilian casualties. According to the United Nations Assistance Mission in Afghanistan, U.S. drone strikes in Afghanistan killed more than 150 civilians in the first nine months of 2018.
Amnesty International reports drones have killed at least 14 civilians in Somalia since 2017.
As of January of this year, U.S. drone strikes fighting ISIS in Iraq and Syria have killed at least 1,257 civilians, according to the Pentagon, and a monitoring group, Airwars, estimates the number to be as great as 7,500.
That you might not be aware of what should be a startling and deeply troubling escalation in unaccountable remote-control warfare by the U.S. is both by design and default.
For one, the Obama administration paved the way for popularizing and normalizing drone wars, which also included the extrajudicial killing of U.S. citizens, first by hiding it, then by begrudgingly acknowledging it, and then by pretending to meaningfully constrain it.
Obama eventually put in place arcane requirements to issue public reports on civilian death tolls (but just in certain military theaters), to limit targets to high-level militants (again, in certain battlefields), and require interagency approval (also only for certain targets).
Trump has peeled back all of those requirements because, well, he can. We now know more than we did about U.S. drone wars when Obama first took office, but less than when he left.
You can also blame cowardly, partisan politics for hearing little from lawmakers about these escalations. Republicans, of course, no longer criticize these sorts of things — even if they subscribe to Trump’s Obama-rebuking, “America First” isolationism. And Democrats who might take issue with unaccountable wars and civilian deaths know to do so they’d have to acknowledge Obama’s role in the mess, and so …Trump’s tax returns it is.
Zippy exposes himself as Republicanguy?
The US would be much better off if we let the world alone but zippy works for the MIC and they make lots of money from intervention, that's why he's mad that Trump move the troops instead of starting a war with Turkey and is saying he is going to withdraw from Syria and the region in general.
They are not fighting a war and it is much better than starting a war with Iran as he is being pushed to do.
Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.
Robert Heinlein
Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler
Groucho Marx
I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.
Linus, from the Peanuts comic
You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith
Alexis de Torqueville
Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it
A Zero Hedge comment
Trump has been withdrawing from the Middle East for two and a half years. We will be out of Syria "very soon" in 2017. In December 2018 "we will be out of Syria in 30 days". Yet there are more troops there than when he took office. In fact, there are more US troops in Iraq and Afghanistan and Yemen and Saudi Arabia and Somalia as well. "More is less!"
The troops (which Trump himself sent in) in Syria are not fighting either. So I guess you do support them staying. Thanks for the clarification of your position!They are not fighting a war and it is much better than starting a war with Iran as he is being pushed to do.
Last edited by Zippyjuan; 10-11-2019 at 04:14 PM.
Trump has faced many obstacles to his plans to withdraw but it will happen now because the obstacles are being dealt with.
You want them to fight Turkey and there is a war there which they are part of whether you call it fighting or not, I wouldn't send troops to Saudi Arabia but it is better than having them in Syria or starting war with Iran.
Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.
Robert Heinlein
Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler
Groucho Marx
I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.
Linus, from the Peanuts comic
You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith
Alexis de Torqueville
Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it
A Zero Hedge comment
"It will be starting soon! I promise!" Been hearing that for two years now.
Last edited by Zippyjuan; 10-11-2019 at 04:46 PM.
Chris
"Government ... does not exist of necessity, but rather by virtue of a tragic, almost comical combination of klutzy, opportunistic terrorism against sitting ducks whom it pretends to shelter, plus our childish phobia of responsibility, praying to be exempted from the hard reality of life on life's terms." Wolf DeVoon
"...Make America Great Again. I'm interested in making American FREE again. Then the greatness will come automatically."Ron Paul
OK, yesterday, I see some posters proclaiming that Orange Man bad. The Kurds are getting slaughtered because Orange Man abandoned allies.
Today it's Orange Man bad because he didn't withdraw the troops and abandoned the Kurds.
Which is it?
...
Both.
Orange Man would be bad if he ended the Fed, devil can explain how.
Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.
Robert Heinlein
Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler
Groucho Marx
I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.
Linus, from the Peanuts comic
You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith
Alexis de Torqueville
Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it
A Zero Hedge comment
Just reelect him one more time.
Then he'll fulfill all his promises (only the ones you like, though) and give you free tickets to his resort on the Big Rock Candy Mountain.
Are they the same people?
"The Patriarch"
Wrong 2nd choice.
He moved the troops to a different location which allows Turkey to take out the Kurds.
There is no spoon.
And you wanted him to go to war with Turkey instead.
Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.
Robert Heinlein
Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler
Groucho Marx
I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.
Linus, from the Peanuts comic
You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith
Alexis de Torqueville
Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it
A Zero Hedge comment
False dichotomy though Trump mentioned that as an option. The others being sanctions or him acting as a mediator (which the Kurds would not be willing to accept since he let the Turks in). That leaves the military or sanctions.
We have one of three choices: Send in thousands of troops and win Militarily, hit Turkey very hard Financially and with Sanctions, or mediate a deal between Turkey and the Kurds!
Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.
Robert Heinlein
Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler
Groucho Marx
I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.
Linus, from the Peanuts comic
You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith
Alexis de Torqueville
Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it
A Zero Hedge comment
WTF kind of psychobabble is this?
"The Patriarch"
Tell that to the Special Forces that WERE attacked.
escalation is in the long game plan..
An Iranian Tanker was just attacked too. I do not think it was coincidence.
Liberty is lost through complacency and a subservient mindset. When we accept or even welcome automobile checkpoints, random searches, mandatory identification cards, and paramilitary police in our streets, we have lost a vital part of our American heritage. America was born of protest, revolution, and mistrust of government. Subservient societies neither maintain nor deserve freedom for long.
Ron Paul 2004
Registered Ron Paul supporter # 2202
It's all about Freedom
Maybe. Iranian news photos didn't show any damage to the ship allegedly hit in two fuel compartments and was reportedly sailing along just fine (they changed the name of the ship they said was attacked too). Nobody has confirmed the report.
U.S. Sends More Forces to Mideast While Trump Vows Withdrawal
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...to-middle-east
Liberty is lost through complacency and a subservient mindset. When we accept or even welcome automobile checkpoints, random searches, mandatory identification cards, and paramilitary police in our streets, we have lost a vital part of our American heritage. America was born of protest, revolution, and mistrust of government. Subservient societies neither maintain nor deserve freedom for long.
Ron Paul 2004
Registered Ron Paul supporter # 2202
It's all about Freedom
US soldiers are now contracted out by the government to foreign nations. Hey, look on the bright side, at least we aren't paying for it. Maybe.“Saudi Arabia at my request has agreed to pay us for everything we’re doing -- that’s a first,” Trump told reporters late Friday, without elaborating on terms for such reimbursement.
"The Patriarch"
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