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Thread: Lies Anti-Vaxxers Tell: "Too Many Vaccines Overloads The Immune System"

  1. #181
    Quote Originally Posted by helmuth_hubener View Post
    "Control" is a technical term. It does not relate to the idea of "authoritarian control and manipulation" with which you have associated it. It refers to something else entirely which I have not the interest to explain.

    I would recommend just letting this drop, Created.
    Lol, regardless of how irrational or ignorant people may be on the subject, I still think it is a good idea to have single load vaccines on the market for people who want it. Its not like we haven't invented it yet or that people cannot come to the doctors multiple times in a month for shots.

    If you are going to mandate people get vaccines, at least give them the single dose as a choice. It sounds like a fair compromise to me.



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  3. #182
    Quote Originally Posted by angelatc View Post
    The gold standard experiment would have to be run as a double-blind. Meaning either that half of a group would have to get a placebo vaccine, or children (both vaxxed and unvaxxed) would have to be intentionally exposed to dangerous disease.
    Why is this idiotic logic only used for vaccines and not for ALL drugs? Using this "logic" no drug should ever be tested as a double-blind placebo study.

    And epidemiological studies are also part of "science."

    Quote Originally Posted by angelatc View Post
    There are already thousands of studies that indicate disease transmission rates drop dramatically in vaccinated populations.
    There are not. The current pertussis vaccine failure is a case in point. And most of these diseases vaccines allegedly eliminated were on their way out long before the vaccine was developed due to natural immunity.



    Last edited by Created4; 08-24-2017 at 06:01 PM.
    There is no fear in love, but perfect love casts out fear. For fear has to do with punishment, and whoever fears has not been perfected in love.
    (1 John 4:18)

  4. #183
    Quote Originally Posted by juleswin View Post
    Lol, regardless of how irrational or ignorant people may be on the subject, I still think it is a good idea to have single load vaccines on the market for people who want it. Its not like we haven't invented it yet or that people cannot come to the doctors multiple times in a month for shots.

    If you are going to mandate people get vaccines, at least give them the single dose as a choice. It sounds like a fair compromise to me.
    That's exactly what Dr. Andrew Wakefield suggested in regards to the MMR vaccine. He encouraged his patients to get the measles vaccine separately, and as a result, sales of MMR by Merck plummeted and he lost his license to practice.
    There is no fear in love, but perfect love casts out fear. For fear has to do with punishment, and whoever fears has not been perfected in love.
    (1 John 4:18)

  5. #184
    Quote Originally Posted by Created4 View Post
    Why is this idiotic logic only used for vaccines and not for ALL drugs? Using this "logic" no drug should ever be tested as a double-blind placebo study.

    And epidemiological studies are also part of "science."



    There are not. The current pertussis vaccine failure is a case in point. And most of these diseases vaccines allegedly eliminated were on their way out long before the vaccine was developed due to natural immunity.



    According to VAERs seven reported deaths following an MMR vaccine between January 2003 and January 2013-not 100. And they were nearly all due to other factors than the vaccine.

    https://academic.oup.com/cid/article...ps-and-Rubella

    Death Reports

    We identified 7 reports of death following MMR (Table 3). In 6 (86%) reports, patients received other vaccines, and in 5 (71%) reports, preexisting illness was documented. Interval from vaccination to time of death ranged from 2 hours to 102 days (median, 5 days). In 4 reports, the listed cause of death was cardiac or cardiovascular in origin. One death occurred in a patient receiving MMR vaccine alone. This was a 48-year-old man with a history of cardiovascular disease who died 2 days after vaccination from cardiovascular disease.
    I was able to confirm these seven cases reported during that time at the VAERs date base- not 100: https://wonder.cdc.gov/controller/datarequest/D8

    As the VAERs website notes:

    When evaluating data from VAERS, IT IS IMPORTANT TO NOTE THAT FOR ANY REPORTED EVENT, NO CAUSE-AND-EFFECT RELATIONSHIP HAS BEEN ESTABLISHED. Reports of all possible associations between vaccines and adverse events (possible side effects) are filed in VAERS. Therefore, VAERS COLLECTS DATA ON ANY ADVERSE EVENT FOLLOWING VACCINATION, BE IT COINCIDENTAL OR TRULY CAUSED BY A VACCINE. THE REPORT OF AN ADVERSE EVENT TO VAERS IS NOT DOCUMENTATION THAT A VACCINE CAUSED THE EVENT.
    Anybody can claim a reaction including death following a vaccine. The reason there were so few measles deaths is that the vaccine was so successful.
    Last edited by Zippyjuan; 08-24-2017 at 07:54 PM.



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  7. #185
    Quote Originally Posted by Created4 View Post
    That's exactly what Dr. Andrew Wakefield suggested in regards to the MMR vaccine. He encouraged his patients to get the measles vaccine separately, and as a result, sales of MMR by Merck plummeted and he lost his license to practice.
    That argument from Wakefield was the most reasonable, fair, rational compromise anyone can make with vaxx skeptics but they crucified him for it. And actually if I remember correctly more of his vaxx skeptic clients said they would be more willing to vaccinate if they had the single vaccine option. So sales shouldn't have plummeted if they offered such an option.

    But instead, they slowly took the single dose vaccines off the market as the demand increased. It makes no sense whatsoever.

  8. #186
    Quote Originally Posted by juleswin View Post

    But instead, they slowly took the single dose vaccines off the market as the demand increased. It makes no sense whatsoever.
    It makes sense if you are Merck and hold a patent on the MMR vaccine and sales plummet.

    From BabyJabs UK:

    Dr David Salisbury, the Head of Immunisation at the Department of Health has warned against the single measles vaccines because, he said, there had been "major problems" with the quality and storage of some of the vaccines. We would like to reassure you that the measles vaccines we offer at BabyJabs are manufactured by large reputable vaccine manufacturers and are just as effective as the measles component of the triple MMR vaccine. They are imported in temperature controlled containers through licensed pharmaceutical importers and are stored in our temperate controlled vaccine fridges. The single measles vaccines are not licensed for use ion the UK; this is simply because the government does not wish them to be used but wants all children to receive the MMR vaccine. The health and safety of the children we immunise is our chief concern.
    Single measles jab: the facts - Daily Mail

    Single measles jab: the facts

    by CHARLOTTE HARDING, femail.co.uk

    As more and more parents demand information about separate jabs for measles, mumps and rubella we present the facts.

    What is the difference between MMR and separate vaccines?

    MMR is a mixed vaccine that protects against measles, mumps and rubella. It is administered in one simple injection. MMR jabs have been administered in Britain since 1988. Separate injections protect against one disease only: measles, mumps or rubella and are taken one by one. These were standard in Britain until 1988.

    What is the controversy over the MMR jab?

    Research published in 1998 suggested that exposure to the triple vaccine could damage the brain and cause autism. In the past decade, there has been a dramatic rise in the number of cases of autism reported, both here and in the U.S., where health experts have now demanded a major probe into any link with MMR.

    In the U.S. more than a million dollars has been paid in compensation over the last ten years to parents alleging their children were harmed by the MMR jab.

    In Britain a parent's support group, Jabs, has 2,000 members who believe their children have suffered side-effects including arthritis, epilepsy, paralysis and encephalitis after receiving the MMR jab.

    It has also emerged that the jab was brought in after only a month of testing. Experts said the vaccine should have been checked for longer to ensure it was safe.

    In February 2002 new research only deepened the controversy when scientists established a possible link between the measles virus, autism and a related bowel disorder. The research showed that the measles virus is present in the guts of autistic children who suffer a rare form of bowel disease.

    Are separate vaccines legal?:

    Yes. Although separate vaccines for measles, mumps and rubella are now unlicensed in Britain it is not illegal for doctors and clinics to import the vaccines as long as they inform the Medicines Control Agency (MCA) that they are bringing the vaccine into the country.

    What is the cost?:

    Approx £45

    Where are they available?:

    Only a handful of clinics and private doctors in London, Brighton, Sheffield, West Yorkshire, Edinburgh and Glasgow are openly administering the separate vaccines in the UK. But it is thought many more doctors may be offering their patients the jabs.

    Private practice doctors who give single vaccines

    Dr Peter Mansfield, Good Healthkeeping Centre, Garrod House, Manby Park, Louth, Lincolnshire LN11 8UT, tel. 01507 329 100.

    Dr Mansfield is also at DesumoHealthcare, West View, Bridge Street, Ledbury, Herefordshire HR8 2AN, 01531 631642.

    Dr Peter Copp, GP Plus, 1 Wemyss Place, Edinburgh EH36DH, 0131 225 9949.

    Direct Health 2000, 6 GroveMarket Place, Court Yard, Eltham, London SE9 5PU, 020 8294 2780.

    Dr Parviz Seyedi, 1 Albany Place, Egham, Surrey, 01784 433380. six- Dr Richard Halvorsen, 64 LambsConduit St, London WC1N 3NA, 020 7405 3541.

    Dr John Oakley, 52 Bishops Way, Four Oaks, Sutton Coldfield, WestMidlands B74 4XS, 0121 308 8876.

    The vaccination support group JABS can provide details of all the clinics offering single jabs via an email service on their website www.jabs.org.uk

    Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/ar...#ixzz4qj1Nn8Bt
    Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook
    Last edited by Created4; 08-24-2017 at 07:12 PM.
    There is no fear in love, but perfect love casts out fear. For fear has to do with punishment, and whoever fears has not been perfected in love.
    (1 John 4:18)

  9. #187
    Long but well worth the read.

    Duty to Warn
    Ignaz Semmelweis, Galileo Galilei, Andrew Wakefield and the Semmelweis Reflex: Iatrogenesis and Big Pharma’s Lucrative Overvaccination Agendas

    By Gary G. Kohls, MD

    August 25, 2017

    “It is dangerous to be right in matters on which the established authorities are wrong.” – Voltaire

    “If you offend the powers that be; if you offend the public health establishments; if you offend the pharmaceutical industry and threaten their bottom line (as we did by calling into question the safety of MMR [and later all the other vaccines that contain brain-toxic, mitochondrial-toxic and blood-brain barrier-toxic ingredients like aluminum and mercury – ed note]) there is no price that you will not pay. You will be destroyed in order to protect their bottom line.” – Dr Andrew Wakefield

    “Anything that implies that immunizations are not the greatest medical advance in the history of public health is ignored or ridiculed. Can you imagine the economic and political import of discovering that immunizations are killing (or maiming) thousands of babies?” — Dr William C. Douglass, MD (Honored twice as America’s ‘Doctor of the Year’)

    “I was told by a network executive that during non-election years up to 70% of his news division’s revenues are from pharmaceutical corporation’s advertising. That executive told me that if one of his talk show hosts allowed me on the air, he would fire that host. Losing an advertiser is a major catastrophe for a network.” – Robert F. Kennedy, Jr (an outspoken critic of mercury-laced vaccines)

    “It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends upon his not understanding it!” – Upton Sinclair, anti-fascist, anti-imperialist American author

    Definitions:

    “The Semmelweis Reflex (aka, the ‘Semmelweis Effect’): the reflex-like tendency to reject new evidence or new knowledge because it contradicts established norms, beliefs or paradigms.” — Semmelweis Society International (http://semmelweis.org/)

    Cognitive Dissonance: the psychological discomfort that happens when one’s deeply held beliefs or assumptions are contradicted by new information.

    Clinical Iatrogenesis: The injury done to patients by an ineffective, toxic or unsafe drug or surgical treatment.

    When I was in medical school, one of the memorable lessons that I learned from the few lectures that I received on the history of medicine was the sad story of what happened to Ignaz Semmelweis (1818 – 1865), a young physician who practiced obstetrics in Vienna, Austria. Semmelweis died before his time after he was hounded out of his medical career (and out of Vienna) by close-minded establishment physician “colleagues” who refused to believe what Semmelweis had repeatedly proven to them: that the enormously high mortality rate of Vienna’s obstetric patients (from “childbed fever”) was caused by the older physician’s failure to wash their hands prior to examining and/or delivering their pregnant patients. In effect, Semmelweis was accusing them of being guilty of fatal “doctor-caused” (ie: iatrogenic) diseases.

    Up until Louis Pasteur formulated the germ theory of infectious disease it was not unusual for physicians to go directly to the delivery room from the autopsy room while in the middle of dissecting freshly dead, often infected bodies while trying to determine the cause of death. Many of the corpses were the doctor’s own septic OB patients who came into the hospital healthy, and ended up dead because of an iatrogenic infection in the immediate post-partum period. Often the babies died or were sickened as well.

    Semmelweis had noted that in the obstetric service of the female midwives (at the same hospital) the mortality rate for childbed fever was far lower than the OB service that was under the control of the male physicians. Midwives were gentler practitioners, more aware of the importance of good hygiene and far less likely to do pelvic exams; and they also did not do autopsies. At the time, women in labor were admitted to the two services on an alternating basis, but the mortality rates were well known in the community, and patients in the know often refused to be admitted to the physician services, preferring to deliver in the street had a low mortality rate.

    So after considering the range of possibilities that might explain the higher mortality rate in the physician-controlled OB service, it was obvious to Semmelweis that the probable cause was the lack of physician hand-washing. Semmelweis set out to prove his thesis.

    <<<<Proving that Childbed Fever was an Iatrogenic Disease was Fatal for Semmelweis>>>

    It didn’t take him long to prove the connection. He did the obvious simple experiment that proved to him (and many other unbiased observers) that his theory was correct. He simply had his group of forward-thinking obstetric physicians that were under his supervision wash their hands with a chlorinated antiseptic solution prior to examining or delivering their patients. The incidence of childbed fever dropped dramatically down to the same rate experienced by the patients of the midwives, thus proving that childbed fever was an iatrogenic disease.

    But instead of being celebrated by his colleagues for his life-saving discovery (which he repeated enough times to convince anybody with an open mind about the truth of the matter), Semmelweis was ignored, denigrated and eventually driven out of town for being impertinent enough to have pointed out that the esteemed physicians of his otherwise honorable profession had been responsible for the deaths and sicknesses of the pregnant women in their care.

    It took many years after Semmelweis’s death for medicine to recognize the importance of his discovery and to give him the posthumous honor he deserved. It was another century before the term “The Semmelweis Effect” came into existence.

    <<<Aggressive Blood-letting and George Washington’s Death>>>

    It hadn’t been very many decades prior to Semmelweis’s discovery that blood-letting (opening veins to bleed patients) was an approved treatment for any number of illnesses for which physicians had no cures. I recall learning that repeated blood-lettings were administered to George Washington by his trusted physician, Dr Benjamin Rush (who was later to be celebrated as the “Father of American Psychiatry” – and whose likeness is proudly used as the symbol of the American Psychiatric Association).

    Dr Rush, a co-signer of the Declaration of Independence, believed fervently in blood-letting for many of his patients, and he had persisted in bleeding Washington until he died of blood loss and shock. In other words, an iatrogenic disorder killed the first president of the United States – and very likely many others in that era as well.

    One can only imagine the wrath directed at any upstart physician (or an unlucky patient’s family) who had the temerity of questioning the effectiveness of the treatment. Dr Rush of course was never accused of medical malpractice since medical knowledge had not progressed sufficiently to reveal that such “treatments” were counterproductive. Also, there was probably no Semmelweis around to point out the folly of such barbaric approaches to sick patients.

    <<<Galileo Galilei was Also a Victim of the “Semmelweis Effect”>>>

    Two centuries before Semmelweis, and long after his death, Galileo Galilei (1564-1642) was honored with the titles of both the “Father of Observational Astronomy” and the “Father of Modern Physics”. (One wonders if he ever observed an eclipse of the sun or moon.) It could be said that he was a victim of the Semmelweis Effect. He surely caused a lot of cognitive dissonance among his close-minded, indoctrinated clerical critics.

    This original thinker, philosopher, scientist and mathematician had proved beyond a doubt that the earth revolved around the sun – rather than the other way around, which was the archaic interpretation of some of the stories in the Old Testament. The impertinence of this scientist to dispute long-held religious beliefs incensed religious authoritarians who had been indoctrinated into believing the ancient teachings that the sun revolved around the earth. Anyone saying otherwise was a damnable heretic that deserved punishment – and so Galileo was condemned by the church to house arrest, a punishment that continued for the remainder of his life.

    <<<Andrew Wakefield and the Semmelweis Effect>>>

    Galileo and Semmelweis were treated the same way that Dr Andrew Wakefield was treated a generation ago when he proved that the same strain of live measles virus that was in GlaxoSmithKline’s MMR vaccine was found in the infected bowels of a series of severely regressed autism patients, all of whom had been suffering with severe abdominal pain and chronic diarrhea soon after they each one had been injected with GSK’s live virus MMR shot (findings which, by the way, have been replicated a number of times by other independent researchers).

    Dr Wakefield and his 11 co-authors in the research group weren’t really trying to make the point that the new syndrome they were researching was an iatrogenic disorder, but that is how many of the perpetrators understood it. The series of victims of the MMR shot all had severe, chronic, measles virus enterocolitis and they were all also severely regressed autism patients that had been normal children prior to the MMR inoculations. And because Wakefield defended the study’s findings after it was peer-reviewed and then published in The Lancet (and was then celebrated by the thousands of British parents whose autistic spectrum-afflicted children had suffered similar vaccine-induced disorders), he was hounded mercilessly by the pharmaceutical giant GSK, Rupert Murdoch yellow journalism media empire (Murdoch’s son sat on the board of GSK) and ultimately the Big Pharma-complicit medical establishment that combined to hound him out of his home country of England.

    Similarly, Semmelweis was driven out of Austria to his Hungarian homeland, where he was met with similar hostility when he continued to promulgate his findings. Some of his forward-thinking students published journal articles that supported his thesis. And open-minded physicians elsewhere on the European continent were convinced of the truth he had uncovered, so that they too began instituting good hygiene in the delivery rooms.

    It was only a couple of decades after Semmelweis’s death (from a vicious beating by security guards after he was tricked into being admitted to an insane asylum) that Louis Pasteur came up with the germ theory of infectious diseases, thus making sense out of – and finally proving – Semmelweis’s theory, even to those who had destroyed his career.

    Only posthumously was Semmelweis honored for his contribution to women’s health. All he got during his short life was undeserved condemnation, disgrace and ignominy and an early, painful death. Both Semmelweis and Wakefield were intentionally made “radioactive” (or “leprous”) by the medical establishment that was threatened by unwelcome new scientific truths that they irrationally refused to acknowledge. One difference between the two pioneer physicians is that the medical establishment was able to convince Semmelweis’s wife that he was insane and needed to be removed from polite society, while happily, Wakefield’s wife believes in her husband’s important work. She has remained supportive of his continued efforts to convince close-minded physicians of his truth.

    <<<Science is NEVER “Settled”>>>

    Authoritarians throughout history – not just fossilized physicians who desperately want to believe that “science is settled“ (or can ever be” settled”) – have behaved like they know everything that needs to be known about their chosen profession, while in reality they just haven’t wanted to go through the effort of having to learn something new, especially if the new information contradicts their previously deeply held beliefs.

    <<<Lessons to be Learned from how the “Establishment” Treated Galileo, Semmelweis, Wakefield, et al>>>

    Many of today’s medical establishment “authorities” have vested interests in the drugs and vaccines that cause some of them to become oblivious to the iatrogenic disorders caused by the drugs and vaccines that were integral to their profession. There are thousands of examples that present similar ethical dilemmas to my profession.

    For instance, many of us physicians and physician’s assistants prescribed Merck’s popular arthritis drug Vioxx to some of the 60,000 patients that died of heart attacks directly because of Vioxx. (Many millions more were heart-sickened but survived – so far.) We were, by definition, complicit in causing some of those iatrogenic deaths or illnesses, although we weren’t medicolegally liable. In those cases, the real fault lay first of all with Merck – who did the deeply flawed studies – but also with the FDA – the agency that approved the long-term use of the drug but didn’t require long-term safety studies. Such short-sightedness, sadly, is normal for the FDA.

    The same accusations of malfeasance could be leveled against every Big Pharma corporation that made every SSRI, every benzodiazepine tranquilizer, every anti-psychotic drug, every ADHD drug and every sleeping pill that we practitioners wrote prescriptions for and which ALL are fully capable of causing serious, permanent body and brain damage, although such manifestations may only become obvious years later.

    And, of course, the same accusations of iatrogenesis could be leveled against every Big Pharma vaccine maker that has added to their factory vats proprietary ingredients that include neurotoxic metals and other toxins that likely have synergistic (multiplying, not just additive) adverse effects when they are injected into the tiny muscles of infants known to be immunologically and neurologically immature. What should alarm every physician and every parent (and every over-vaccinated soldier and pre-dementia adult) is that such vaccine combinations have never been evaluated for either short-term or long-term safety.

    One of the earliest examples of drug- or vaccine-induced iatrogenic disorders involved Smith Kline & French (SKF), the predecessor corporation of GlaxoSmithKline (GSK) and the maker of the infamous neurotoxic, so-called “anti-depressant” drug Paxil. GSK also manufactures the MMR vaccine, which contains three live viruses, including a strain of measles which was found in the infected intestines of the Wakefield autism research group discussed above. Both of those drugs are currently under fire by watchdog groups, but the major media does not report on such delicate (ie for media advertisers) issues.

    SKF got FDA approval in 1955 for its dementia-inducing, memory-impairing and brain-damaging “major tranquilizer” Thorazine (which was the prototype for future so-called “anti-psychotic” drugs like Mellaril). Thorazine was the first of a flood of other dependency-inducing and brain-damaging “anti-psychotics” and then by a host of the so-called “minor tranquilizers” like Librium and Valium.

    Such dependency-inducing drugs naturally made a lot of money for any number of multinational drug companies – as well as many psychiatrists. Ever since the break-out of psychiatric drugs on the market in the 1950s, we physicians have been bamboozled into trusting the fast-tracking of drugs and vaccines through their FDA approval process without long-term safety studies! And the epidemic of psych drug-induced dementia and the epidemic of vaccine-induced neurological and autoimmune disorders are evidence of the over-looked dangers.

    The FDA is the federal regulatory agency that approves vaccines (except for the Anthrax vaccine that is being regularly injected into soldiers ever since Desert Storm and which has never been FDA approved), but the agency does not require vaccine makers to perform or present to the FDA either long-term or short-term safety or efficacy studies! Neither does the FDA require vaccine-makers to present double-blind studies to the FDA or comparative studies (against a competitor’s vaccine) or even safety or efficacy studies of the vaccines that contain more than one antigen (!).

    Vaccine-makers are also in denial (as is the CDC and the FDA and the AAP and the AMA) concerning the known neurotoxicities of many of the vaccine ingredients, such as the aluminum adjuvant that is currently in many vaccines or the preservative mercury (which was in many of the vaccines prior to 2000 (when the autism epidemic was just starting to surge).

    In 2011, in a decision that granted Big Vaccine further protections against legal liability for when their vaccines killed or maimed patients, vaccines were justifiably labeled as “unavoidably unsafe” by the US Supreme Court.

    The same charge of “unavoidable unsafe” could have been made against the previously normal blood-letting in Dr Rush’s era and the lack of understanding by physicians about the importance of hand-washing for physicians in Semmelweis’s era..

    Galileo’s critics refused to look through his telescope for the proof of his heliocentric theories. Semmelweis’s critics refused to look at the evidence he presented to them. Wakefield and many other anti-over-vaccination activists (many scholars and independent scientists among them) who have studied the complex science of Big Pharma’s pro-vaccination agendas – should be informing all concerned people to look at all sides of all issues before being tempted to make a firm decision.

    The following list of useful quotations from anti-over-vaccination whistle-blowers is must reading for every human – open-minded or otherwise – that will soon be threatened by coercive vaccination legislation that is in the process of working through most state legislative bodies.

    Useful Quotations from Whistle-Blowers that Dare to Expose the Over-Vaccination Agendas of Big Pharma, the CDC, the AAP and the AMA

    Graph revealing that the US mortality rate for measles had already declined to near zero by the time a measles vaccine was introduced in 1963, due to improved nutrition, sanitation, safer drinking water and the availability of refrigeration – and NOT to the vaccine! Similar mortality and incidence charts explain the decreases in rates of diphtheria, whooping cough, scarlet fever (there never was a commercially-available scarlet fever vaccine) – From Dissolving Illusions: Disease, Vaccines and the Forgotten History, by Suzanne Humphries, MD and Roman Bystrianyk

    Safety Recommendation for Parents Who Choose or are Mandated to Vaccinate Their Children, Based on Guidelines of the Autism Research Institute

    Never vaccinate a sick child, even if just a runny nose from a viral infection, as all viruses are immunosuppressive, rendering the child more vulnerable to adverse vaccine reactions.
    Never allow more than two vaccines per visit; avoid all combination vaccines.
    Administer vitamin C before and after each vaccination, ideally in doses of 500 mgs every four hours during waking hours. Also give vitamin A in standard doses.
    All forms of sugar should be avoided for several days before and after vaccines, as sugar has been shown to diminish the protective activities of the immune system by depressing white blood cells’ ability to destroy bacteria.

    “industry-controlled ‘science’ is not really science but a smokescreen to pave the way for products that may be harmful – but what do they care as long as they profit? There are many great scientists but there are also some who are willing to be hired to ‘prove’ that something doesn’t cause cancer, or that something is ‘safe’. You cannot trust the EPA, the FDA, or industry science.” – Blogger

    “A most disturbing thing about this entire zika virus fraud is the role that the mainstream media has played in continually promoting the fear mongering campaign orchestrated by the CDC. This is another example of how the medical/pharmaceutical industry controls what our mainstream media reports. They have gained the power to control not only what health information is reported, they also have the power to censor or not report any information that would be damaging to their financial interests.

    “Here is one obvious example of this censorship. On April 14, the Reuters News Agency reported that more than 11,000 pregnant women in Colombia had tested positive for zika. More than 2,700 of them had already given birth, yet there were only two confirmed cases of microcephaly (compatible with the normal background rate). With only two cases of microcephaly out of more than 2,700 births, their health minister all but stated that there was no zika epidemic in Colombia. This was just more proof that the zika virus is NOT the cause of microcephaly and there is no epidemic.

    “But this was a total contradiction to all the fear mongering claims of the CDC, and as far as I know, this information was censored and never even reported by any of our mainstream news media. So, by keeping the public in the dark, the CDC has been able to continue with their fear mongering, and is still pressuring Congress to give them $1 billion more of our taxpayer dollars to fight this fake epidemic and develop a new vaccine.

    “With the aid of the mainstream media, our government leaders and Congress also seem to blindly accept the word of the CDC as if it’s the omnipotent and irrefutable truth. In spite of all the contradictory evidence, it appears that all the CDC has to do is to just say “TRUST US, WE ARE THE EXPERTS. IF WE SAY THERE IS A ZIKA VIRUS EPIDEMIC, YOU CAN BELIEVE IT’.” – Blogger on Mercola.com 8/16/16

    “During the last 10 years, there has been one death from measles, but that patient was an adult woman who was on immunosuppressive medications and had other serious health problems. (But between) 2000 and 2017, there were 156 deaths related to the MMR vaccine.” — Dr. David Brownstein – Holistic Family Practitioner

    “We are taught by the authorities that vaccines protect us against eventual aggressive viruses and microbes, and, therefore, prevent contagious illnesses and epidemics. This lie has been perpetuated for 150 years despite the ineffectiveness of vaccines in protecting against illnesses…the uselessness of certain vaccines, notably, TB & tetanus..diphtheria…influenza and hepatitis B.” — Guylaine Lanctot, MD

    “The decline in infectious diseases in developed countries had nothing to do with vaccinations, but with the decline in poverty and hunger (Dr. Buchwald draws the Committee’s attention to a series of about 50 graphs in his book which show that vaccinations have no effect on the decline of infectious diseases).” — Gerhard Buchwald, MD

    “Up to 90% of the total decline in the death rate of children between 1860-1965 because of whooping cough, scarlet fever, diptheria, and measles occured before the introduction of immunisations and antibiotics.” — Archie Kalokerinos, MD

    “According to the records of the Metropolitan Life Insurance Company, from 1911 to 1935 the four leading causes of childhood deaths from infectious diseases in the U.S.A. were diphtheria, pertussis, scarlet fever, and measles. However, by 1945 the combined death rates from these causes had declined by 95% before the implementation of mass vaccine programs.” — Harold Buttram MD

    “All infectious diseases decreased without vaccinations. Not only did vaccines have no influence over the decrease of the diseases, the contrary is true, they slowed down the downward trend of all diseases. The best example for this is polio. After the majority of people were vaccinated, severe epidemics occurred, such as in 1962 in the German speaking countries, after vaccination had been in full force for 3 years. Dr Buchwald carefully collected the facts in his book, which prove this fact beyond doubt for all infectious diseases.” — Anita Petek-Dimmer, German-born Swiss anti-vaccine activist.

    “The really sad thing is the amount of doctors I’ve spoken to who say to me, ‘Del, I know that vaccines are causing autism, but I won’t say it on camera because the pharmaceutical industry will destroy my career just like they did to Andy Wakefield.'” — Del Bigtree, Producer of “Vaxxed: From Cover-up to Catastrophe”

    “I tell practitioners that vaccines are drugs, albeit biological drugs. I remind them that they would not consider it good medicine to give an unnecessary pharmaceutical drug on a recurring basis. I think it is even worse to give a vaccine…that isn’t necessary. The possible adverse consequences of a vaccine generally far outweigh the adverse consequences of a pharmaceutical drug. A pharmaceutical drug is usually much more restricted in its action. However, each time we stimulate an immune response, we have to look at the effect on all body systems—not only on antibody responses or cell-mediated immunity, but also on interactions with the endocrine system and the nervous system.” – Dr Ronald Schultz, Professor and Chair of the Department of Pathobiological Sciences, University of Wisconsin-Madison, and an expert in companion animal vaccines.

    On the Arrogance of Preventive Medicine

    “But surely the fundamental promise we make when we actively solicit individuals and exhort them to accept preventive interventions must be that, on average, they will be the better for it. Accordingly, the presumption that justifies the aggressive assertiveness with which we go after the unsuspecting healthy must be based on the highest level of randomized evidence that our preventive manoeuvre will, in fact, do more good than harm. Without evidence from positive randomized trials (and, better still, systematic reviews of randomized trials) we cannot justify soliciting the well to accept any personal health intervention. There are simply too many examples of the disastrous inadequacy of lesser evidence as a basis for individual interventions among the well: supplemental oxygen for healthy preemies (causing retrolental fibroplasia and blindness), healthy babies sleeping face down (causing SIDS), thymic irradiation in healthy children, and the list goes on.” — Dr David Sackett, (a pioneer of evidence based medicine),

    “The full extent of the Gardasil scandal needs to be assessed: everyone knew when this vaccine was released on the American market that it would prove to be worthless. Diane Harper, a major opinion leader in the United States, was one of the first to blow the whistle, pointing out the fraud and scam of it all. I predict that Gardasil will become the greatest medical scandal of all time because at some point in time, the evidence will add up to prove that this vaccine, technical and scientific feat that it may be, has absolutely no effect on cervical cancer and that all the very many adverse effects which destroy lives and even kill, serve no other purpose than to generate profit for the manufacturers. Gardasil is useless and costs a fortune! In addition, decision-makers at all levels are aware of it! Cases of Guillain-Barré syndrome, paralysis of the lower limbs, vaccine-induced MS and vaccine-induced encephalitis can be found, whatever the vaccine.” — Dr Bernard Dalbergue (former Merck employee)

    “The autism epidemic is real, and excessive vaccinations are the cause.” – Dr Bernie Rimland

    “Completely unvaccinated children have less chronic disease and a lower risk of autism than vaccinated children.” — J. B. Handley, Jr. – Founder of Generation Rescue

    “…our current results are consistent with the existing evidence on the toxicology and pharmacokinetics of Aluminum adjuvants which altogether strongly implicate these compounds as contributors to the rising prevalence of neurobehavioral disorders in children. Given that autism has devastating consequences in a life of a child, and that currently in the developed world over 1% of children suffer from some form of ASD, it would seem wise to make efforts towards reducing infant exposure to aluminum from vaccines.“ — C A Shaw, PhD

    “There is a serious problem with vaccine safety. Vaccine aluminum adjuvant has adverse neurological effects, at dosages that are recommended by the US CDC. Vaccine critics are supported by the science. Parents refusing to vaccinate according to the recommended CDC schedule are supported by the science. Use aluminum-containing vaccines with great caution, or not at all.” – Chris Shaw, PhD http://vaccinepapers.org/category/aluminum/

    “Aluminum is an experimentally demonstrated neurotoxin and the most commonly used vaccine adjuvant…research clearly shows that aluminum adjuvants have a potential to induce serious immunological disorders in humans. In particular, aluminum in adjuvant form carries a risk for autoimmunity, long-term brain inflammation and associated neurological complications and may thus have profound and widespread adverse health consequences.” — (From Tomljenovic and Shaw’s journal article “Aluminum Vaccine Adjuvants: Are They Safe?”, published in Curr Med Chem, 2011;18(17):2630-7.)

    “Aluminum is an experimentally demonstrated neurotoxin and the most commonly used vaccine adjuvant. Despite almost 90 years of widespread use of aluminum adjuvants, medical science’s medical understanding of their mechanisms of action is still remarkably poor. There is also a concerning scarcity of data on toxicology and pharmacokinetics of these compounds. In spite of this, the notion that aluminum in vaccines is safe appears to be widely accepted.” — Tomljenjovic and Shaw

    “No vaccine manufacturer shall be liable…for damages arising from a vaccine-related injury or death.” – President Ronald Reagan, as he signed The National Childhood Vaccine Injury Act (NCVIA) of 1986, absolving drug companies from all medico-legal liability when children die or are disabled from vaccine injuries, thus reversing many of the intentions of the original legislation establishing the FDA

    “The human immune system is divided into two major classes: 1) Cellular Immunity (for which injected vaccines do absolutely nothing, except to weaken it), located in the mucous membranes of the gastrointestinal and respiratory tracts and their respective lymph nodes and 2) Humoral Immunity, with production of antigen-specific antibodies by plasma cells in the bone marrow. For eons of time the mucous membranes of the gastrointestinal and respiratory tracts have been the primary sites of infectious microbe entry into the body so that, of necessity, mucosal/cellular immunity has evolved as the primary defense system, with humoral immunity serving a secondary or backup role…Vaccines are reversing these roles, attempting to substitute vaccine-induced humoral immunity for the far more efficient mucosal immunity, the latter in turn undergoing a process of “atrophy of disuse” as a result of this role-switching.” — Harold Buttram, MD

    “The steadily increasing patterns of physical and/or mental illnesses among American children show no signs of abating. Unless this issue is definitively addressed, at some future time the process will pass a point of no return (socially and economically) from the sheer numbers of incapacitated children.” – Harold Buttram, MD

    “The soaring incidence of physical and mental illnesses among today’s children (may be) causally related to current childhood vaccine programs. Primary among these is the large-scale contamination of the measles, mumps, and influenza vaccines with retroviruses capable of engrafting their genetics into the DNA of childhood recipients. This is rendered more likely because of the cavalier disregard with which combinations of viral vaccines are now being administered, primarily involving the MMR vaccines…in spite of the toxicology principle that combinations of toxins may bring exponential (10-fold or 100-fold) increases in toxicity.” – Harold Buttram, MD

    “In the field of chemical toxicology it is universally recognized that combinations of toxins may bring exponential increases of toxicity; ie, a combination of two chemicals may bring a 10-fold increase in toxicity, three chemicals 100-fold increases. This same principle almost certainly applies to the immunosuppressive effects of viral vaccines when administered in combination, as with the MMR vaccine, among which the measles vaccine is (known to be) exceptionally immunosuppresive.” – Harold Buttram, MD

    “…the NIH (National Institutes of Health) is incapable of conducting conflict-free research. …it is clear that the system managing our vaccine program is corrupt beyond repair and needs a complete overhaul.” – Lori Mellwain, National Autism Association board chair

    “It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends upon his not understanding it!” – Upton Sinclair, anti-fascist, anti-imperialist American author who wrote in the first half of the 20th century. Sinclair’s 1903 novel “Jungle” (about the repulsive slaughterhouse practices in the meat-packing industry in Chicago) led to President Theodore Roosevelt’s pushing through the Pure Food and Drug Act of 1906.

    “A 2007 [Zika] outbreak on Yap Islands in Micronesia is estimated to have affected nearly 75% of the (island’s) population of some 12,000 people, and a 2013 outbreak in French Polynesia affected nearly 28,000 of 270,000 residents. Neither epidemic caused a spike in microcephaly.” — Quartz (qz.com)?

    “The correlation between a) the presence of Zika and b) babies with the microcephaly birth defect is so weak and sparse, it constitutes counter-evidence for Zika as the cause…the overwhelming majority of birth-defect cases show no presence of Zika. Therefore, the Zika-carrying mosquitoes have no business being the target of toxic spraying. But they are. And the spraying increases the risk of neurological damage in babies.” – Jon Rappoport (https://jonrappoport.wordpress.com/category/zika/)

    “Microcephaly may result from any insult that disturbs early brain growth…Annually, approximately 25,000 infants in the United States will be diagnosed with microcephaly…” – From the Report of the Quality Standards Subcommittee of the American Academy of Neurology and the Practice Committee of the Child Neurology Society. (Neurology 2009 Sep 15; 73(11) 887-897)

    “…even the ideal influenza vaccine, matched perfectly to circulating strains of wild influenza and capable of stopping all influenza viruses, can only deal with a small part of the ‘flu’ problem because most ‘flu’ appears to have nothing to do with influenza. Every year, hundreds of thousands of respiratory specimens are tested across the US. Of those tested, on average 16% are found to be influenza positive.” – Dr Peter Doshi (from a British Medical Journal review article, “Influenza: marketing vaccines by marketing disease” 2013 (BMJ 2013; 346:f3037)

    “…It’s no wonder so many people feel that ‘flu shots’ don’t work: for most flus, they can’t work because most diagnosed cases of the flu aren’t the flu.” – Jon Rappoport

    “[According to CDC statistics], ‘influenza and pneumonia’ took 62,034 lives in 2001—61,777 of which were attributable to pneumonia and 257 to flu, and in only 18 cases was the flu virus positively identified.” – Dr Peter Doshi, from in his 2005 BMJ report, titled, “Are US flu death figures more PR than science?” (BMJ 2005; 331:1412)

    “Between 1979 and 2001, [CDC] data showed an average of 1348 [flu] deaths per year (range 257 to 3006).” – Dr Peter Doshi de-bunking the CDC’s pro-vaccine disinformation campaign that says that 36,000 people die from influenza annually

    “The CDC says that 36,000 people die from the flu every year in the US. But actually, it’s closer to 20. However, we can’t admit that, because if we did, we’d be exposing (the CDC’s) gigantic psyop. The whole campaign to scare people into getting a flu shot would have about the same effect as warning people to carry iron umbrellas, in case toasters fall out of upper-story windows.” – Jon Rappoport

    “Alzheimer’s Disease is a human form of chronic aluminum neurotoxicity.” – JR Walton, PhD – Faculty of Medicine, University of New South Wales, St George Hospital, Sydney, Australia

    The following quotes are from: http://www.vaccinetruth.org/doctors_...t_vaccines.htm

    “The only safe vaccine is one that is never used.” — Dr James A. Shannon, National Institutes of Health

    “No batch of vaccine can be proved safe before it is given to children.” – Dr Leonard Scheele, Surgeon General of the United States, addressing an AMA convention in 1955

    “The evidence for indicting immunizations for SIDS is circumstantial, but compelling. However, the keepers of the keys to medical-research funds are not interested in searching this very important lead to the cause of an ongoing, and possibly preventable, tragedy. Anything that implies that immunizations are not the greatest medical advance in the history of public health is ignored or ridiculed. Can you imagine the economic and political import of discovering that immunzations are killing thousands of babies?” — Dr William C. Douglass, MD (Honored twice as America’s ‘Doctor of the Year’)

    “Only after realising that routine immunisations were dangerous did I achieve a substantial drop in infant death rates. The worst vaccine of all is the whooping cough vaccine…it is responsible for a lot of deaths and for a lot of infants suffering irreversible brain damage. In susceptible infants, it knocks their immune systems about, leading to irreparable brain damage, or severe attacks or even deaths from diseases like pneumonia or gastro-enteritis and so on.” — Dr Kalokerinos

    “Sudden Infant Death Syndrome has been reported following the administration of DPT. The significance is unclear. 85% of SIDS cases occur in the period 1 through 6 months of age, with the peak incidence at age 2 to 4 months.” (From the accompanying insert to Connaught Labs DPT vaccine.) — Jane Orient, MD, executive director of the Association of American Physicians and Surgeons (AAPS) and clinical lecturer in medicine at the University of Arizona College of Medicine, and a professor of clinical medicine at the Oregon Institute of Science and Medicine.

    “Official data shows that large scale vaccination has failed to obtain any significant improvement of the diseases against which they were supposed to provide protection” — Dr Sabin, developer of Polio vaccine

    “The greatest threat of childhood diseases lies in the dangerous and ineffectual efforts made to prevent them through mass immunization…..There is no convincing scientific evidence that mass inoculations can be credited with eliminating any childhood disease.” — Dr Robert Mendelsohn, MD

    “It is pathetic and ludicrous to say we ever vanquished smallpox with vaccines, when only 10% of the population was ever vaccinated.” — Dr Glen Dettman

    “The decline in infectious diseases in developed countries had nothing to do with vaccinations, but with the decline in poverty and hunger.” — Gerhard Buchwald, MD

    “There is a great deal of evidence to prove that immunization of children does more harm than good.” – Dr J. Anthony Morris (formerly Chief Vaccine Control Officer at the US Federal Drug Admin.)

    “There is insufficient evidence to support routine vaccination of healthy persons of any age.” — Paul Frame, MD Journal of Family Practice

    “I think that no person would permit anybody to get close to them with an inoculation if they would really know how they are made, what they carry, what has been lied to them about and what the real percent of danger is of contracting such a disease which is minimal.” — Dr Eva Snead

    “I was working in one of the oldest lung illness treatment centres in Germany, and just by chance, I looked at the files of those people who had fallen ill during the first German epidemic of smallpox (in 1947)…We had always been told that the smallpox vaccinations would protect against smallpox. And now I could verify, thanks to the files and papers, that all of those who had fallen ill had been vaccinated. This was very upsetting for me.” — Gerhard Buchwald, MD

    “There has been a frightening increase in cases of autism that has not been explained. There are a number of anecdotal reports from parents that symptoms of autism have appeared close to the time of the (MMR) vaccine.” — Jane Orient, MD

    “I once believed in Jenner; I once believed in Pasteur. I once believed in vaccination. I once believed in vivisection. But I changed my views as the result of hard thinking.” — Dr Hadwen

    “If you want the truth on vaccination you must go to those who are not making anything out of it. If doctors shot at the moon every time it was full as a preventive of measles and got a shilling for it, they would bring statistics to prove it was a most efficient practice, and that the population would be decimated if it were stopped.” — Dr Allinson

    “The greatest threat of childhood diseases lies in the dangerous and ineffectual efforts made to prevent them through mass immunization…There is no convincing scientific evidence that mass inoculations can be credited with eliminating any childhood disease.” — Dr Robert Mendelsohn, MD

    “You might as well consult a butcher on the value of vegetarianism as a doctor on the worth of vaccination.” – George Bernard Shaw

    “The vaccinations are not working, and they are dangerous. We should be working with nature.” — Lendon H.Smith, MD

    “Medicine is of all the Arts the most noble; but, owing to the ignorance of those who practice it, and of those who, inconsiderately, form a judgment of them, it is at present far behind all the other arts.” — Hippocrates (400 BC)

    Merck’s 27 page Hit List of Physicians who are Targeted for “Neutralization” or “Discrediting”
    https://www.lewrockwell.com/2017/08/...rew-wakefield/
    There is no spoon.

  10. #188
    Quote Originally Posted by Ender View Post
    <<<Science is NEVER “Settled”>>>

    Authoritarians throughout history – not just fossilized physicians who desperately want to believe that “science is settled“ (or can ever be” settled”) – have behaved like they know everything that needs to be known about their chosen profession, while in reality they just haven’t wanted to go through the effort of having to learn something new, especially if the new information contradicts their previously deeply held beliefs.
    This is the key issue among the pro-vaccine fanatics. They arrogantly claim "the science is settled" which in and of itself is a statement of faith, NOT a scientific statement.

    They abuse the term "science" for authoritarian purposes, to impose their BELIEFS on everyone else. The actual science does not support their belief system.

    This is why I have the quote from Zippy in my signature, so that everyone can see his basic presupposition about vaccines is a belief, not science.
    There is no fear in love, but perfect love casts out fear. For fear has to do with punishment, and whoever fears has not been perfected in love.
    (1 John 4:18)

  11. #189
    “No vaccine manufacturer shall be liable…for damages arising from a vaccine-related injury or death.” – President Ronald Reagan, as he signed The National Childhood Vaccine Injury Act (NCVIA) of 1986, absolving drug companies from all medico-legal liability when children die or are disabled from vaccine injuries, thus reversing many of the intentions of the original legislation establishing the FDA
    This is why we have VEARs--it's basically a get out of jail card for Big pHARMa. This was one of the most damning pieces of legislation that President Reagan signed and this definitely overshadows and good he ever did, in my eyes. So many children and parents have suffered because of it.
    “The spirits of darkness are now among us. We have to be on guard so that we may realize what is happening when we encounter them and gain a real idea of where they are to be found. The most dangerous thing you can do in the immediate future will be to give yourself up unconsciously to the influences which are definitely present.” ~ Rudolf Steiner

  12. #190
    I haven't said anything about this because it hurt my heart so much that my son was allowing his children my grand children to be vaccinated. For the past 2 years I have been pleading with them to stop because the children were sick all the time. It had caused a huge rift between us. Finally my DIL started noticing one child at the day care where she managed that never got sick. The mother of the child is an RN so my DIL asked what she did to keep her child so healthy. She told her that she did not vaccinate her child.

    The only thing good that has happened this year for me is that my DIL put a stop to having the children vaccinated. The youngest had to have breathing treatments every night at bed time now she doesn't cough or have any shortness of breath. The oldest had almost constant ear infections and one cold right after another.

    My grand daughters both have a doctor kit and they love being my doctor. When they used to get shots I was always amazed at how violently they would charge after me to give me a shot. MY DIL admitted to me that they did have to hold them down and force them to receive vaccines. I made them watch what they did while giving me shots they hit me and stood on me and they saw that the children were acting out. I was always very vocal about my objections to vaccines and I did it in front of my grand daughters because I wanted them to know that I did not like them allowing them to be vaccinated. Now my sweet little grand daughters only listen to my heart, take my blood pressure, and my temperature and check my reflexes and on occasion preform some simple brain surgery. They both want to be doctors when they grow up. My oldest grand daughter wants to invent something that will make me live forever my youngest wants to take out all my organs and give me new ones.

  13. #191
    Quote Originally Posted by Created4 View Post
    Why is this logic only used for vaccines and not for ALL drugs? Using this "logic" no drug should ever be tested as a double-blind placebo study.
    No. There are no doubleblind studies done that require deliberately making children sick.


    And epidemiological studies are also part of "science."
    Of course they are. But they're considered less reliable.



    There are not.
    Yes, there are.


    The current pertussis vaccine failure is a case in point.
    That's a study that doesn't exist? Or it's a study that prove the new vaccine isn't as effective as the old vaccine, which was replaced because of parental concerns over the side effects?
    And most of these diseases vaccines allegedly eliminated were on their way out long before the vaccine was developed due to natural immunity.
    Death from the diseases was on the decline but there's no such thing as natural immunity. Every measles outbreak in the world proves that. Transmission was on the decline because prosperity meant people weren't living piled up on top of each other, indoor plumbing improved sanitation and medical treatments advanced as well.

    Again, India is living proof that vaccines work. Their infectious disease rates plummeted directly in relation to the percentage of the population that got vaccinated, as predicted. There were no major advances in hygiene, medicine or living conditions.





    ANother thing that anti-vaxxers do is continually move the goalposts rather than actually discuss evidence.

    This thread is about the fact that there is no evidence that too many vaccines overload young immune systems.

    But as I stated above in this thread, and repeatedly in other threads, no disease ever died out naturally until a vaccine was introduced. Diseases always wane and ebb, but they never disappear until vaccines are introduced into a population.

    That disproves the natural immunity theory and is evidence that vaccines are effective.
    Last edited by angelatc; 08-25-2017 at 10:56 AM.

  14. #192
    dupe
    Last edited by angelatc; 08-25-2017 at 10:56 AM.



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  16. #193
    Quote Originally Posted by Created4 View Post
    This is the key issue among the pro-vaccine fanatics. They arrogantly claim "the science is settled" which in and of itself is a statement of faith, NOT a scientific statement.
    .
    You're hallucinating. Nobody here said that.

  17. #194
    Quote Originally Posted by Created4 View Post
    This link provides evidence that Juleswin is wrong,and that the single jab is available. Thanks for saving me the time to Google that.

  18. #195
    Quote Originally Posted by juleswin View Post
    That argument from Wakefield was the most reasonable, fair, rational compromise anyone can make with vaxx skeptics but they crucified him for it.
    Wakefield
    deliberately
    falsified
    data

    ...in order to terrorize parents and thereby convince them to use the product he was soon to be marketing instead of his competitors' products. That isn't reasonable, fair or anything resembling rational.
    Last edited by angelatc; 08-25-2017 at 11:16 AM.

  19. #196
    Quote Originally Posted by angelatc View Post
    Wakefield
    deliberately
    falsified
    data

    ...in order to terrorize parents and thereby convince them to use the product he was soon to be marketing instead of his competitors' products. That isn't reasonable, fair or anything resembling rational.
    If he deliberately 'falsified documents' he would be in jail-- you keep repeating the same lies over and over.

    Funny how Dr. Wakefield's colleague, on the same project was exonerated.
    “The spirits of darkness are now among us. We have to be on guard so that we may realize what is happening when we encounter them and gain a real idea of where they are to be found. The most dangerous thing you can do in the immediate future will be to give yourself up unconsciously to the influences which are definitely present.” ~ Rudolf Steiner

  20. #197
    Quote Originally Posted by donnay View Post
    If he deliberately 'falsified documents' he would be in jail-- you keep repeating the same lies over and over.

    Funny how Dr. Wakefield's colleague, on the same project was exonerated.
    The judge ruled that the penalty on Professor Walker Smith was too severe because his exact role in producing the paper could not be shown. He agreed that the paper was faulty and misleading.

    http://www.bbc.com/news/health-17283751

    The judge said the GMC panel failed to address whether Prof Walker-Smith had been doing research or simply investigating symptoms to help treat children. There had been "inadequate and superficial reasoning and, in a number of instances, a wrong conclusion", he said.

    The GMC said reforms to disciplinary hearings were being considered.

    Chief executive Niall Dickson added: "Today's ruling does not however reopen the debate about the MMR vaccine and autism.

    "As Mr Justice Mitting observed in his judgement, 'There is now no respectable body of opinion which supports (Dr Wakefield's) hypothesis, that MMR vaccine and autism/enterocolitis are causally linked'.

  21. #198
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    The judge ruled that the penalty on Professor Walker Smith was too severe because his exact role in producing the paper could not be shown. He agreed that the paper was faulty and misleading.

    http://www.bbc.com/news/health-17283751
    Co-Author of Lancet MMR-Autism Study Exonerated on All Charges of Professional Misconduct

    Dr. John Walker-Smith, considered the father of pediatric gastroenterology, has today been restored to his much-deserved reputation of high esteem. His appeal of the U.K. General Medical Council’s 2010 decision to remove his license for serious professional misconduct has been quashed in its entirety. This decision raises questions about the validity of the 2010 GMC proceeding in general.

    The GMC proceeding was a multi-year, multi-million dollar prosecution against Drs. Wakefield, Walker-Smith, and Murch. It related to a controversial 1998 study published in The Lancet suggesting a possible link between autism, the measles-mumps-rubella vaccine and bowel disease. Based on the GMC prosecution, both Drs. Walker-Smith and Wakefield lost their licenses to practice and the Lancet article was officially retracted. The GMC alleged that the physician-authors had failed to obtain necessary ethical clearances and that they had subjected the twelve children in the study to unnecessary medical procedures.

    Justice Mitting, reviewing Dr. Walker-Smith’s appeal in the High Court of Justice, Queen’s Bench Division, Administrative Court, found that the GMC’s conclusions were “based on inadequate and superficial reasoning” and that “the finding of serious professional misconduct and the sanction of erasure are both quashed.” See full text of the decision.

    Dr. Walker-Smith’s professional insurance coverage paid for his appeal; Dr. Wakefield’s insurance carrier would not.

    Dr. Wakefield has recently filed a defamation lawsuit in Texas against the British Medical Journal, Dr. Fiona Godlee, Editor-in-Chief, and journalist Brian Deer, who instigated the GMC prosecution. His lawsuit alleges that the defendants knowingly or recklessly engaged in fraudulent misrepresentations about 1998 Lancet study. While far from decisive, the Mitting ruling bodes well for Dr. Wakefield’s defamation action.

    Justice Mitting’s impartial judicial decision marks a turning point in a long campaign to discredit 1998 Lancet article and Dr. Andrew Wakefield in particular. To date, international media have failed to probe the GMC’s ruling or to explore the many connections between Brian Deer, the Rupert Murdoch media empire, Glaxo Smith Kline, the British Medical Journal and numerous other medical bodies.

    “Finally, we are getting to the bottom of what happened at the GMC,” said Mary Holland, Esq., EBCALA managing director, “This victory for Dr. Walker-Smith is a triumph for all those who care about people with autism and bowel disease. I hope this decision leads to investigating the true causes of this global epidemic.”

    Autism Media Channel reports on the story from London:

    https://www.ebcala.org/areas-of-law/...nal-misconduct
    “The spirits of darkness are now among us. We have to be on guard so that we may realize what is happening when we encounter them and gain a real idea of where they are to be found. The most dangerous thing you can do in the immediate future will be to give yourself up unconsciously to the influences which are definitely present.” ~ Rudolf Steiner

  22. #199
    The decision was based on Walker-Smith's treatment of patients during the course of the research and whether or not that treatment required approval from the Ethics Committee- not the conclusions of that research. Also he did not face the same charges Wakefield did. His was failure to report to the Ethics Committee. It does not vindicate Wakefield or the discredited Lancet paper. From the decision itself:

    http://www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWHC/Admin/2012/503.html

    A fundamental issue: the distinction between medical practice and research

    At the heart of the GMC's case against Professor Walker-Smith were two simple propositions: the investigations undertaken under his authority on eleven of the twelve Lancet children were done as part of a research project – Project 172-96 – which required, but did not have, Ethics Committee approval; and they were clinically inappropriate. Professor Walker-Smith's case was that the investigations were clinically appropriate attempts at diagnosis of bowel and behavioural disorders in children with broadly similar symptoms and, where possible, treatment of the bowel disorders or alleviation of their symptoms. The GMC's case was that he was conducting research which required Ethics Committee approval. His case was that he was conducting medical practice which did not. Accordingly, an unavoidable and fundamental question which the panel had to answer was: what is the distinction between medical practice and research?
    But as for the quality of the report, the judgement notes:

    None of the children fitted the hypothesis to be tested under Project 172-96, in that none of them had both received a single or double vaccine and had developed disintegrative disorder. The great majority had received MMR vaccine and been diagnosed with autism.
    Meaning they chose kids who had received the MMR vaccine and had been diagnosed with autism to try to see if there was a link. They did not include kids who received the MMR vaccine and did NOT get diagnosed with autism. It was neither a random nor representative sample of children. That biases results.

    It adds:

    Professor Walker-Smith had no rational motive to begin research before it was authorised, carry it out in breach of the requirements of the Ethics Committee after it was authorised or deliberately to mislead the Ethics Committee and others about his intention. Unlike Dr. Wakefield, he was agnostic or cautious about the claimed link between MMR and autism and gastrointestinal disorders. On 29th and 31st July 1997 he wrote privately to Dr. Wakefield to express his and Dr. Murch's concern that their professional reputation would be damaged by association with work prematurely leaked to the media.
    He had concerns about Wakefield's conclusions too.
    Last edited by Zippyjuan; 09-03-2017 at 02:32 PM.

  23. #200
    http://www.independent.co.uk/life-st...l-7543114.html

    An eminent doctor was celebrating a dramatic victory today after the High Court ruled that a decision to strike him off over the MMR controversy was unlawful.

    Professor John Walker-Smith had been found guilty of professional misconduct following accusations of taking part, without ethical approval, in controversial research that caused a global scare by suggesting a link between the MMR vaccine, bowel disease and autism.

    The doctor, who is in his 70s and retired, denied allegations that he had participated in the research under the guise of carrying out clinical investigations and treatment of young patients.

    He said the treatments, including lumbar punctures and colonoscopies, were clinically indicated and were necessary for the purposes of diagnosis and treatment, but not for a research project.
    Allowing Professor Walker-Smith's appeal, the judge said the panel should have decided whether he had told the truth about his intentions when he carried out treatments.

    "The GMC's approach to the fundamental issues in the case led it to believe that was not necessary, an error from which many of the subsequent weaknesses in the panel's determination flowed.

    "It had to decide what Professor Walker-Smith thought he was doing. If he believed he was undertaking research in the guise of clinical investigation and treatment, he deserved the finding that he had been guilty of serious professional misconduct and the sanction of erasure.

    "If not, he did not, unless perhaps his actions fell outside the spectrum of that which would have been considered reasonable medical practice by an academic clinician.


    "Its failure to address and decide that question is an error which goes to the root of its determination.

    "The panel's decision cannot stand. I therefore quash it."
    More from the judge: http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/20...ecause-john-w/

    At a press conference, which Professor Walker-Smith did not attend, convened to accompany publication, Dr. Wakefield stated publicly the view which he had previously expressed privately to Professor Walker-Smith that he could no longer support the giving of MMR vaccine. The joint view of Professor Walker-Smith and Dr. Murch, stated in a letter to Dr. Wakefield on 21st January 1998, was that it was inappropriate to emphasize the role of MMR vaccine in publicity about the paper and that they supported government policy concerning MMR until more firm evidence was available for them to see for themselves. They published a press release to coincide with publication stating their support for “present public health policy concerning MMR”. Dr. Wakefield’s statement and subsequent publicity had a predictable adverse effect upon the take up of MMR vaccine of great concern to those responsible for public health. There is now no respectable body of opinion which supports his hypothesis, that MMR vaccine and autism/enterocolitis are causally linked.
    Last edited by Zippyjuan; 09-03-2017 at 01:56 PM.



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  25. #201
    Quote Originally Posted by angelatc View Post
    This link provides evidence that Juleswin is wrong,and that the single jab is available. Thanks for saving me the time to Google that.
    from your link.

    Are separate vaccines legal?:
    Yes. Although separate vaccines for measles, mumps and rubella are now unlicensed in Britain it is not illegal for doctors and clinics to import the vaccines as long as they inform the Medicines Control Agency (MCA) that they are bringing the vaccine into the country.
    Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/ar...#ixzz4reCqGjhS
    Follow us: @MAIlOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

    This is the problem with dogmatic people, they tend to be single minded on idea that they believe is true. There you go, its not illegal but a parent is required to go through the legal red tape to get it for their child.

  26. #202
    Seems to me true libertarians would give parents credit for doing their own research and making an informed decision.

    But what do I know? I had rubella, measles, mumps, and chicken pox. My mother knew how to take care of me during those illness and never acted like it was it was part of the job. Polio was a brand new vaccine. We all had scratch vaccines and have scars from them.

    We just went on like it was part of life and when everyone in our class had whatever it was, we went back to playing with our normal friends.
    Last edited by euphemia; 09-03-2017 at 02:14 PM.
    #NashvilleStrong

    “I’m a doctor. That’s a baby.”~~~Dr. Manny Sethi

  27. #203
    Quote Originally Posted by juleswin View Post
    from your link.



    Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/ar...#ixzz4reCqGjhS
    Follow us: @MAIlOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

    This is the problem with dogmatic people, they tend to be single minded on idea that they believe is true.
    Amazing you didn't burn yourself with that irony.

    There you go, its not illegal but a parent is required to go through the legal red tape to get it for their child.
    If it was up to me, we could buy them in the bread aisle at the 7-11.

  28. #204
    Quote Originally Posted by euphemia View Post
    Seems to me true libertarians would give parents credit for doing their own research and making an informed decision.
    Research isn't simply Googling things to "prove" things we already to believe to be true. That's called "confirmation bias."

    But what do I know? I had rubella, measles, mumps, and chicken pox. My mother knew how to take care of me during those illness and never acted like it was it was part of the job. Polio was a brand new vaccine. We all had scratch vaccines and have scars from them.

    We just went on like it was part of life and when everyone in our class had whatever it was, we went back to playing with our normal friends.
    But it's not just about you.
    Last edited by angelatc; 09-03-2017 at 03:07 PM.

  29. #205
    Quote Originally Posted by donnay View Post
    If he deliberately 'falsified documents' he would be in jail-- you keep repeating the same lies over and over.

    Funny how Dr. Wakefield's colleague, on the same project was exonerated.
    I gave you 4 links. Zippy explained why his colleague's situation was different. It's just flat out true. The only person lying here is Wakefield, who falsified data to create a panic specifically designed to terrorize parents so he could sell them his vaccine.

    He's just a horrible, horrible person.
    Last edited by angelatc; 09-03-2017 at 03:18 PM.

  30. #206
    Quote Originally Posted by angelatc View Post
    Amazing you didn't burn yourself with that irony.



    If it was up to me, we could buy them in the bread aisle at the 7-11.
    Yea, I guess single dose vaccines are available and legal the same way automatic assault rifles are legal and available in the states. Come on angeltc

  31. #207
    Quote Originally Posted by angelatc View Post
    I gave you 4 links. Zippy explained why his colleague's situation was different. It's just flat out true. The only person lying here is Wakefield, who falsified data to create a panic specifically designed to terrorize parents so he could sell them his vaccine.

    He's just a horrible, horrible person.
    Oh please--so dramatic.

    Dr. Wakefield’s research was later vindicated, and the case against him ruled a fraud, but the mainstream media never reported this

    So how is the mainstream media continuing to get away with lying about Dr. Wakefield and his important research into MMR? The same way it gets away with everything else — repeating that lie over and over and over again until it’s crystallized in the minds of the gullible that Dr. Wakefield is a fraud, when he’s really a lone voice of truth in a sea of liars.

    “What has happened in the meantime is a sideshow, and it’s been to divert attention from what is gross regulatory failure to protect individuals, to protect governments and to protect industry from past liabilities and future profits,” warned Dr. Wakefield about the mainstream media’s relentless crusade to destroy his reputation and character.

    “What was never reported in the newspapers is that after we went to the GMC and had our licenses removed, Prof. John Walker-Smith took his case to the English High Court — the only time that this case had ever been heard before a proper judiciary — what did they find? Justice Mitting on General Medical Council:

    “[There were] ‘fundamental errors,’ there was distortion of evidence, inadequate analysis, inadequate and superficial reasoning and explanation, inappropriate rejection of evidence, ‘flawed’ and ‘wrong’ reasoning, and ‘numerous and significant inadequacies’…. Universal inadequacies and some errors… go to the heart of the case. They are not curable. The panel’s determination cannot stand. I therefore quash it.”

    “These are the same charges against me. I was unable to appeal or continue my appeal because of lack of funding — it would have cost me 500,000 pounds.”

    Help support effort to release documentary uncovering truth about MMR, regulatory corruption and vaccine fraud

    Everyone needs to watch this powerful speech by Dr. Wakefield to hear the uncensored truth about how this skilled doctor and all-around great man was illicitly stripped of his reputation and career simply for doing what any good and honest doctor would have done in the same situation — investigate the unexplained health outcomes of children whose parents came to him looking for expertise and answers.

    “Prof. John Walker-Smith was immediately reinstated, exonerated completely — was this ever reported? Did this ever find its way into the American media? No it did not,” lamented Dr. Wakefield, noting that a whole series of papers have since been published showing the exact same link between MMR and inflammatory bowel disease.

    “That Brian Deer’s case, that Rupert Murdoch’s case, that GlaxoSmithKline’s case against us, because we had the audacity to get involved in vaccine safety research, fell by the wayside. But nobody ever got to hear about that.”

    “Armed with this knowledge — federal admission of scientific fraud in relation to vaccine safety, corporate admission of fraud in relation to vaccine efficacy — you cannot mandate immunization in this state or indeed anywhere. If you do and children are harmed, then you have personal liability for that damage.”
    http://www.globalresearch.ca/dr-wake...ection/5457636
    “The spirits of darkness are now among us. We have to be on guard so that we may realize what is happening when we encounter them and gain a real idea of where they are to be found. The most dangerous thing you can do in the immediate future will be to give yourself up unconsciously to the influences which are definitely present.” ~ Rudolf Steiner

  32. #208
    Quote Originally Posted by angelatc View Post
    Research isn't simply Googling things to "prove" things we already to believe to be true. That's called "confirmation bias."
    Maybe that's your idea of research, but parents have access to more than that and can talk to their actual doctors with actual medical degrees.

    I'm a little sick of the way you stalk donnay and other people around this forum to scream they are wrong based on what you find on Google. If you are a true libertarian you would allow people to have an opinion that doesn't exactly conform with yours. I don't agree with you. I will never agree with you. I had all the diseases, I raised a child to adulthood when not all the vaccines were available, and we did decline some vaccines, and I have grandchildren who have received some vaccines and not others. Parents can be fully equipped to make informed decisions that have nothing to do with Google.

    You believe in liberal use of government and would force parents to do things your way, even though you are not an educated medical professional. That sounds a lot like what Hillary Clinton does.
    Last edited by euphemia; 09-03-2017 at 04:25 PM.
    #NashvilleStrong

    “I’m a doctor. That’s a baby.”~~~Dr. Manny Sethi



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  34. #209
    Quote Originally Posted by donnay View Post
    There is absolutely no evidence that Wakefield's research was "vindicated." There is a plethora of evidence that Wakefield deliberately falsified the results in order to terrify parents specifically so he could financially gain.

    1. They failed to disclose financial interests: Not only was he planning to market hiw own vaccine, the studies were financed by lawyers poised to sue.

    2. They conducted invasive investigations on the children without obtaining the necessary ethical clearances.

    3. They reported that their sampling was consecutive when, in fact, it was selective.

    4. They cherry-picked data.

    5. They falsified results.

    6. 10 of the 12 original authors on the paper retracted before the investigation started.

    7. Their sample size was ridicously small. (12)

    8. The design of the experiment was uncontrolled.

    9. No researcher anywhere on the planet has been able to duplicate Wakefield's results.

    So one of us is hallucinating.

    In your version of reality, every other scientist on the planet is in on some secret conspiracy to give children the autismz. In my version, Wakefield is a liar and a cheat.


    .
    Last edited by angelatc; 09-03-2017 at 04:41 PM.

  35. #210
    Quote Originally Posted by euphemia View Post
    I'm a little sick of the way you stalk donnay and other people around this forum to scream they are wrong based on what you find on Google.
    Curious - what good did you think this post would do? There aren't any facts in it - it's just another post about you.

    I started this thread because I'm quite sick of people using a political forum as a platform specifically to terrify young parents, using with bad information that can't be verified. Feel free to move on if the fact-checking doesn't go your way.
    If you are a true libertarian you would allow people to have an opinion that doesn't exactly conform with yours. I don't agree with you. I will never agree with you. I had all the diseases, I raised a child to adulthood when not all the vaccines were available, and we did decline some vaccines, and I have grandchildren who have received some vaccines and not others. Parents can be fully equipped to make informed decisions that have nothing to do with Google.
    Not all opinions are equal. Please introduce evidence to support conclusions. Nobody cares about your grandkids - it isn't about you.

    You believe in liberal use of government and would force parents to do things your way, even though you are not an educated medical professional. That sounds a lot like what Hillary Clinton does.
    Annnnd you're hallucinating. Again, I'm not the one off the rails here.
    Last edited by angelatc; 09-03-2017 at 04:51 PM.

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