Good reasons NOT to vote.

[heavenlyboy34]

Oh really? How many here donate to anything anymore? How many here are willing to stick their neck out and put their lives on the line anymore? Where are all these "contributors" you speak of? I'll tell where, most of them are gone. There is only a handful left. There was one hell of a lot more when people like you weren't so worried about putting down the anarchists.

[Proph]

There never has been and never will be an anarchist society that survives and retains its freedom.
And it is exceedingly unlikely that one will ever be established in the future at all.
And without an anarchist society those who refuse to participate in politics will not retain or expand their liberty.

We're already living in anarchy, whether you choose to admit it or not.

The politicians and their family and friends would vote and say everyone else had their chance.

This seems to be your anchor on this issue, but you begrudge to concede that their collusion isn't limited to the ballot box.

It is an analysis of facts, things can change and people can change but only so much, there can be no "New Anarchist Man" anymore than there could be a "New Soviet Man".

I'm willing to work with anyone who is willing to try and reduce government at least until it is so small we can barely see it but those who are telling people to refrain from voting are negative and subversive, they hinder the movement by reducing its effect and by driving people away to standard Republicanism etc.

The only freedom you will ever have is what you carve out for yourself. As long as you aren't hurting others, do what you want. (Arguably, whenever you exercise your "right" to vote -- which is essentially your "right" to attempt to control others via majority rule -- you ARE harming others; thus voting is a wrong, not a right.)

[Firestarter]

I’m glad that I’m not the only one, who thinks that voting doesn’t bring a positive change.
Of course NOT voting doesn’t bring about a positive change either…

There are a couple of reasons for me to not vote:
1) Politicians don’t keep their promises;
2) Opposing parties are really best buddies behind the scenes;
3) By constitution the Netherlands, where I survive, is a Kingdom with a King that has dictatorial powers.

The major advantage of not voting is that I don’t have to follow all of the politrics (that are mostly lies anyway).
This saves me time, and – more importantly – this makes me less susceptible to the brainwashing techniques (of which political propaganda is an important part).



There have been some activists that have entered the political arena to ridicule the process (maybe Dead Kennedys front man Jello Biafra is the best known of these in the US): http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...=1#post6325880

[olehounddog]

All I needed was to hear Dr. Paul boooed for mentioning The Prince of Peace. All these worldly wise men can stick it in their ear.

[Proph]

Todd summed it up best:

Voting only works if the candidates represent real substantial changes. It's the work that leads up to it that counts. Too much emphasis is put on pulling a lever one day in November every year. People think that magically makes them free. If all the work in the 3 to 4 years prior to the lever pull do not produce a candidate and all the candidates on the ballot are total suck then me staying home has little impact on anything.

The ideal solution is to impose market principles on the political process, producing better candidates. Unfortunately, the entire process is rigged, as was evident to anyone paying attention to Ron Paul's -- and arguably, Bernie Sanders' and Tulsi Gabbard's -- presidential campaigns.

[Sammy]

I only vote if agree with the person on most issues.
I voted just 2 times in a presidental election (I'm 27). I voted for Ron Paul in 2012 & I voted for Trump 2016.

[Swordsmyth]

We're already living in anarchy, whether you choose to admit it or not.


This seems to be your anchor on this issue, but you begrudge to concede that their collusion isn't limited to the ballot box.


The only freedom you will ever have is what you carve out for yourself. As long as you aren't hurting others, do what you want. (Arguably, whenever you exercise your "right" to vote -- which is essentially your "right" to attempt to control others via majority rule -- you ARE harming others; thus voting is a wrong, not a right.)

You can't defeat organized evil without organized good.
Voting is required to keep any organization good because unaccountable power always becomes evil.

I don't claim that voting will perfect everything, just that it is one of the ways things can be improved.
In a sense all of life is anarchy but we can affect it through electoral politics.
And I do have a right to use force to prevent others from violating my rights as best I can and therefor I have a right to vote.

[Proph]

You can't defeat organized evil without organized good.
Voting is required to keep any organization good because unaccountable power always becomes evil.

I don't claim that voting will perfect everything, just that it is one of the ways things can be improved.
In a sense all of life is anarchy but we can affect it through electoral politics.
And I do have a right to use force to prevent others from violating my rights as best I can and therefor I have a right to vote.

Viewing the world through the binary lens of "good" and "evil" is simplistic. Most politicians -- and their unelected enforcers -- have probably convinced even themselves that their dastardly deeds are benevolent; that Theye are ultimately the "good" guys. (All of those who colluded against Trump probably thought they were helping the nation, too.)

Natural law deters "organized evil" much more efficiently than voting.

At least you acknowledge that voting is indirectly a use of force. Your comparison to a weapon is very astute. (Though, again, "Live by the sword; die by the sword.")

[heavenlyboy34]

You can't defeat organized evil without organized good.
Voting is required to keep any organization good because unaccountable power always becomes evil.

I don't claim that voting will perfect everything, just that it is one of the ways things can be improved.
In a sense all of life is anarchy but we can affect it through electoral politics.
And I do have a right to use force to prevent others from violating my rights as best I can and therefor I have a right to vote.

The problem with this line of argumentation is we know that the voting franchise brings out the worst in both voters and politicians. It is most plain that the pols are corrupt, but the greedy electorate inevitably tries to weaponize the ballot and elect the guy who steals other people's money on their behalf. The State can't do anything without stealing from everyone-its very existence assumes average people fear its violence.

Everyone knows that the fire from a little spark will increase and blaze ever higher as long as it finds wood to burn; yet without being quenched by water, but merely by finding no more fuel to feed on, it consumes itself, dies down, and is no longer a flame. Similarly, the more tyrants pillage, the more they crave, the more they ruin and destroy; the more one yields to them, and obeys them, by that much do they become mightier and more formidable, the readier to annihilate and destroy. But if not one thing is yielded to them, if, without any violence they are simply not obeyed, they become naked and undone and as nothing, just as, when the root receives no nourishment, the branch withers and dies. …
All this havoc, this misfortune, this ruin, descends upon you not from alien foes, but from the one enemy whom you yourselves render as powerful as he is, for whom you go bravely to war, for whose greatness you do not refuse to offer your own bodies unto death. He who thus domineers over you has only two eyes, only two hands, only one body, no more than is possessed by the least man among the infinite numbers dwelling in your cities; he has indeed nothing more than the power that you confer upon him to destroy you. Where has he acquired enough eyes to spy upon you, if you do not provide them yourselves? How can he have so many arms to beat you with, if he does not borrow them from you? The feet that trample down your cities, where does he get them if they are not your own? How does he have any power over you except through you? How would he dare assail you if he had no cooperation from you? What could he do to you if you yourselves did not connive with the thief who plunders you, if you were not accomplices of the murderer who kills you, if you were not traitors to yourselves? …
(Y)ou can deliver yourselves if you try, not by taking action, but merely by willing to be free. Resolve to serve no more, and you are at once freed. I do not ask that you place hands upon the tyrant to topple him over, but simply that you support him no longer; then you will behold him, like a great Colossus whose pedestal has been pulled away, fall of his own weight and break in pieces.

[Swordsmyth]

The problem with this line of argumentation is we know that the voting franchise brings out the worst in both voters and politicians. It is most plain that the pols are corrupt, but the greedy electorate inevitably tries to weaponize the ballot and elect the guy who steals other people's money on their behalf. The State can't do anything without stealing from everyone-its very existence assumes average people fear its violence.

Since you can't get rid of the state (evil people will create one and impose it on you) then the best you can do is try to limit it and make the control of its power competitive.

Utopia is impossible, I don't claim that voting will make it so.

[Proph]

Since you can't get rid of the state (evil people will create one and impose it on you) then the best you can do is try to limit it and make the control of its power competitive.

Utopia is impossible, I don't claim that voting will make it so.

Do you read anyone's posts but your own?

Civil disobedience is more effective at curbing political power than the ballot box. (To think that voting is a more viable solution means you ignore the rest of the corruption that goes along with the selection process.)

[Cleaner44]

I hate to tell you but even if you don't vote the government assumes you consent.

Adam Kokesh is often rebellious to the point of being counter-productive but the one thing he's ever said that stuck with me was when he was talking about people who decided to show government who was boss by not voting (as if they care):

"You don't do politics. That's okay. Politics will do you."

This is the reality. Not voting doesn't stop the machine. Clearly my best course of action is to attempt to influence the machine.

I voted for Ron Paul in 2008 to punish the GOP for nominating the liberal John McCain.

I voted for Gary Johnson in 2012 to punish the GOP for nominating the liberal Mitt Romney.

I voted Donald Trump in 2016 to punish the liberal Democrats.

My goal is to push the GOP and America away from liberals, socialism and their stupid policies.

My goal is to push the GOP and America toward capitalism.

I think the GOP is a much better party now than it was 10, 15 and 20 years ago.

[Origanalist]

The problem with this line of argumentation is we know that the voting franchise brings out the worst in both voters and politicians. It is most plain that the pols are corrupt, but the greedy electorate inevitably tries to weaponize the ballot and elect the guy who steals other people's money on their behalf. The State can't do anything without stealing from everyone-its very existence assumes average people fear its violence.

Originally Posted by Etienne de la Boetie
Everyone knows that the fire from a little spark will increase and blaze ever higher as long as it finds wood to burn; yet without being quenched by water, but merely by finding no more fuel to feed on, it consumes itself, dies down, and is no longer a flame. Similarly, the more tyrants pillage, the more they crave, the more they ruin and destroy; the more one yields to them, and obeys them, by that much do they become mightier and more formidable, the readier to annihilate and destroy. But if not one thing is yielded to them, if, without any violence they are simply not obeyed, they become naked and undone and as nothing, just as, when the root receives no nourishment, the branch withers and dies. …
All this havoc, this misfortune, this ruin, descends upon you not from alien foes, but from the one enemy whom you yourselves render as powerful as he is, for whom you go bravely to war, for whose greatness you do not refuse to offer your own bodies unto death. He who thus domineers over you has only two eyes, only two hands, only one body, no more than is possessed by the least man among the infinite numbers dwelling in your cities; he has indeed nothing more than the power that you confer upon him to destroy you. Where has he acquired enough eyes to spy upon you, if you do not provide them yourselves? How can he have so many arms to beat you with, if he does not borrow them from you? The feet that trample down your cities, where does he get them if they are not your own? How does he have any power over you except through you? How would he dare assail you if he had no cooperation from you? What could he do to you if you yourselves did not connive with the thief who plunders you, if you were not accomplices of the murderer who kills you, if you were not traitors to yourselves? …
(Y)ou can deliver yourselves if you try, not by taking action, but merely by willing to be free. Resolve to serve no more, and you are at once freed. I do not ask that you place hands upon the tyrant to topple him over, but simply that you support him no longer; then you will behold him, like a great Colossus whose pedestal has been pulled away, fall of his own weight and break in pieces.

That quote looks familiar.
https://www.minds.com/Polititiansarecancer/

[TheTexan]

Every American should vote. Unless of course you just hate America. In which case you're basically a terrorist, trying to do our country harm with your non-voting. Should be thrown in jail. In Guantanamo.

[Swordsmyth]

Do you read anyone's posts but your own?

Civil disobedience is more effective at curbing political power than the ballot box. (To think that voting is a more viable solution means you ignore the rest of the corruption that goes along with the selection process.)

Where did I ever say voting was the only thing we should do?

Civil disobedience has its place but so does voting, abandoning either one is giving the enemy an advantage.

[Swordsmyth]

This is the reality. Not voting doesn't stop the machine. Clearly my best course of action is to attempt to influence the machine.

I voted for Ron Paul in 2008 to punish the GOP for nominating the liberal John McCain.

I voted for Gary Johnson in 2012 to punish the GOP for nominating the liberal Mitt Romney.

I voted Donald Trump in 2016 to punish the liberal Democrats.

My goal is to push the GOP and America away from liberals, socialism and their stupid policies.

My goal is to push the GOP and America toward capitalism.

I think the GOP is a much better party now than it was 10, 15 and 20 years ago.

Exactly.