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Thread: Trump Questions "South Africa Land Expropriations" From White Farmers

  1. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by H_H View Post
    Hitting the Immigration Pause Button is not the controversial issue. That’s settled. 75-90%. Mass deportation, that is the bone of contention. That’s where the debate is going. Gotta love that ole Overton Window. Once you understand a thing, you can use it, see?

    Quote Originally Posted by H_H View Post
    Is it good or bad to steal folks’ land and genocide them, and.


    Is it good or bad to try to stop such a thing?
    Does it feel strange to you to support and then oppose the same policy in two adjacent posts within the span of half an hour?
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Pinochet is the model
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Liberty preserving authoritarianism.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Enforced internal open borders was one of the worst elements of the Constitution.



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  3. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by specsaregood View Post
    China has been doing just that -- quietly -- in Africa for awhile now. And at the same time, I saw something recently that these S. African land seizures weren't really about giving the land back to the natives to farm but land with minerals that china wants to mine.


    Interesting.
    Pfizer Macht Frei!

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  5. #33
    I miss my old Rhodesian hunting trips .
    Do something Danke

  6. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by H_H View Post
    Between 75% and 90% of white Americans would be fine with an Immigration Pause. Just hit the pause button, no big deal. We can always unpause any time. If we want to.Go ask them. You likely won’t find a single person who’ll say no. It’s always all in how you phrase the poll question, ya know?
    I am in favor of a pause, I was speaking of my long term opinion.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  7. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by oyarde View Post
    I miss my old Rhodesian hunting trips .
    I read this man's work extensively...would love to go hunt Africa some day.


  8. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by TheCount View Post
    Does it feel strange to you to support and then oppose the same policy in two adjacent posts within the span of half an hour?
    Mass deportation of illegal aliens is not the same thing as stealing land from citizens and killing them.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  9. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Mass deportation of illegal aliens is not the same thing as stealing land from citizens and killing them.
    Let's not pretend that the mass deportation being discussed is only for illegal aliens.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Pinochet is the model
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Liberty preserving authoritarianism.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Enforced internal open borders was one of the worst elements of the Constitution.

  10. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by TheCount View Post
    Let's not pretend that the mass deportation being discussed is only for illegal aliens.
    How would you know what was "really" being discussed?
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  11. #39
    https://www.express.co.uk/news/world...tion-cyril-ram
    South Africa LAND SEIZURE crisis: Bank warns of DEFAULT over white-farm land grabs

    SOUTH Africa’s proposed new policy of seizing privately-owned land without compensation could torpedo the country’s economy if farmers stop investing and paying off debts, the state-owned Land Bank has warned.

    By SIMON OSBORNE
    PUBLISHED: 14:34, Wed, Aug 22, 2018 | UPDATED: 16:17, Wed, Aug 22, 2018

    Bosses said the government's new decree on land reform could trigger defaults that would cost the economy £2.2bn if the bank’s rights as a creditor are not protected.

    Land Bank is an agricultural bank guided by a government mandate to provide financial services to the commercial farming sector and agri-business.

    South African President Cyril Ramaphosa announced this month his government will enforce a change in the constitution to allow the expropriation of land without compensation.

    A record number of white South African farmers have put their land up for sale amid fears the ruling party is considering confiscating properties bigger than 25,000 acres.

    According to the ruling Africa National Congress party (ANC), the white minority in the country still own most of the land more than two decades after the end of apartheid.

    The ANC wants to redistribute the land confiscated from white farmers to the black citizens of the country.

    Land Bank chairman Arthur Moloto said expropriation without compensation would immediately cost the bank £480m.

    He said: “A cross default clause would be triggered should we fail to pay when these debts fall due because of inadequate liquidity or lack of alternative sources of funding.

    “This would make our entire funding portfolio due and payable immediately, which we would not be able to settle.

    “Consequently, government intervention would be required to settle our lenders.”


    Mr Moloto said a badly-run land reform program would hurt his bank’s capital.

    He said: “A poorly executed expropriation without compensation could result in the main sources of funding drying up as investors might not be willing to continue funding Land Bank in particular, or agriculture in general.”

    Since the end of apartheid in 1994, the ANC has followed a “willing-seller, willing-buyer” model.

    Under the plan, the government buys land from white landowners and redistributes it among black citizens of the country.

    But critics say the land reform programme has not brought the results the ANC wants.

    Tensions among South Africa’s white farming community has been escalating since the election of Cyril Ramaphosa as President earlier the year, who committed his African National Congress (ANC) to land expropriation.

    Last week, ANC chairman Gwede Mantashe sparked panic among the farming community when he said: “You shouldn’t own more than 25,000 acres of land.

    “Therefore if you own more it should be taken without compensation.

    “People who are privileged never give away privilege as a matter of a gift.

    “And that is why we say, to give you the tools, revisit the constitution so that you have a legal tool to do it.”

    Economists and farmers’ unions have warned land grabs in South Africa could lead to a Zimbabwe-style collapse of the the agricultural industry from which the economy will struggle to recover.

    https://www.express.co.uk/news/world...tion-cyril-ram

  12. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    How would you know what was "really" being discussed?
    Time is linear.

    Quote Originally Posted by helmuth_hubener View Post
    Muslims don't belong here. Because I don't want this to be a Muslim country. Middle-easterners don't belong here. Because I don't want this to be a middle-eastern country. And Mexicans and other Latin Americans don't belong here. Because I don't want this country to become Northern Mexico. If we care about liberty, we ought to do whatever we can to get them out.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Pinochet is the model
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Liberty preserving authoritarianism.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Enforced internal open borders was one of the worst elements of the Constitution.



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  14. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by TheCount View Post
    Time is linear.
    Originally Posted by helmuth_hubener

    Muslims don't belong here. Because I don't want this to be a Muslim country. Middle-easterners don't belong here. Because I don't want this to be a middle-eastern country. And Mexicans and other Latin Americans don't belong here. Because I don't want this country to become Northern Mexico. If we care about liberty, we ought to do whatever we can to get them out.
    That still doesn't prove that he means to kill or expel citizens.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  15. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    That still doesn't prove that he means to kill or expel citizens.
    I would imagine getting someone out is expelling in so many words.
    we ought to do whatever we can to get them out.

  16. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by nikcers View Post
    I would imagine getting someone out is expelling in so many words.
    In the first place it is not clear that citizens are being discussed and in the second it is not clear that "whatever we can" includes expelling if applied to citizens.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  17. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    In the first place it is not clear that citizens are being discussed and in the second it is not clear that "whatever we can" includes expelling if applied to citizens.
    So you think he failed to specify whether he meant American citizens or immigrants because it was obviously implied or because he is unable to articulate his ideas?

  18. #45
    I am not in favor of deporting or expelling confirmed US citizens.

    I am in favor of an across the board halt in immigration, legal or illegal.

    I am in favor of deporting anybody who is not within the country legally as defined by law.

  19. #46
    Why is this a concern for our government?

  20. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by nikcers View Post
    So you think he failed to delineate between American citizens and immigrants because it was obvious or because he isn't able to articulate what he is saying?
    I don't know, I just know that that quote doesn't prove that he wants to kill or expel citizens.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  21. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by Schifference View Post
    Why is this a concern for our government?
    It's not I suppose...outside of our $#@!ing around with the internal politics of a foreign nation is what has caused this.



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  23. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post
    I am not in favor of deporting or expelling confirmed US citizens.

    I am in favor of an across the board halt in immigration, legal or illegal.

    I am in favor of deporting anybody who is not within the country legally as defined by law.
    I am in favor of possibly deporting some legal immigrants who are not yet citizens.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  24. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by Schifference View Post
    Why is this a concern for our government?
    It isn't unless he is going to offer the Boers refugee status, if he does then he needs to use them to replace other less compatible refugees.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  25. #51
    So will we offer preferential refugee status to white foreigners over colored foreigners?

  26. #52
    If we want to stay away from providing refugees a place to come we should not get involved.

  27. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by Schifference View Post
    So will we offer preferential refugee status to white foreigners over colored foreigners?
    Culture is the question not skin color.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  28. #54
    It's been, literally, years, since I read a PuffHo story on their website.

    I notice they no longer allow comments either.


    “The president of the United States has adopted a vile white supremacist hate narrative, right out of the darkest corners of the internet, and is turning it into policy.”

    https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry...b07295150fc749

    President Donald Trump faced more accusations of racism late Wednesday after he tweeted about white farmers in South Africa.

    In an apparent response to a segment on Tucker Carlson’s Fox News show, Trump said he’d asked Secretary of State Mike Pompeo to “closely study the South Africa land and farm seizures”:


    Donald J. Trump
    ✔ @realDonaldTrump
    I have asked Secretary of State @SecPompeo to closely study the South Africa land and farm seizures and expropriations and the large scale killing of farmers. “South African Government is now seizing land from white farmers.” @tuckerCarlson @foxNews
    10:28 PM - Aug 22, 2018
    115K
    81.9K people are talking about this
    Twitter Ads info and privacy

    Fellow tweeters accused Trump of promoting the white nationalist talking point that the South African government was waging a war against whites.

    Khusela Diko, South African President Cyril Ramaphosa’s spokeswoman, told Reuters that Trump was “misinformed” about the country’s planned land reforms and that its government would “take up the matter through diplomatic channels.”

    “South Africa totally rejects this narrow perception which only seeks to divide our nation and reminds us of our colonial past,” the South African government tweeted. “South Africa will speed up the pace of land reform in a careful and inclusive manner that does not divide our nation.”

  29. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by Schifference View Post
    If we want to stay away from providing refugees a place to come we should not get involved.
    I would be happy to end all refugee programs but until that happens we should prioritize those who are more compatible with our culture over those who are not.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  30. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post
    It's been, literally, years, since I read a PuffHo story on their website.

    I notice they no longer allow comments either.


    “The president of the United States has adopted a vile white supremacist hate narrative, right out of the darkest corners of the internet, and is turning it into policy.”

    https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry...b07295150fc749

    President Donald Trump faced more accusations of racism late Wednesday after he tweeted about white farmers in South Africa.

    In an apparent response to a segment on Tucker Carlson’s Fox News show, Trump said he’d asked Secretary of State Mike Pompeo to “closely study the South Africa land and farm seizures”:


    Donald J. Trump
    ✔ @realDonaldTrump
    I have asked Secretary of State @SecPompeo to closely study the South Africa land and farm seizures and expropriations and the large scale killing of farmers. “South African Government is now seizing land from white farmers.” @tuckerCarlson @foxNews
    10:28 PM - Aug 22, 2018
    115K
    81.9K people are talking about this
    Twitter Ads info and privacy

    Fellow tweeters accused Trump of promoting the white nationalist talking point that the South African government was waging a war against whites.

    Khusela Diko, South African President Cyril Ramaphosa’s spokeswoman, told Reuters that Trump was “misinformed” about the country’s planned land reforms and that its government would “take up the matter through diplomatic channels.”

    “South Africa totally rejects this narrow perception which only seeks to divide our nation and reminds us of our colonial past,” the South African government tweeted. “South Africa will speed up the pace of land reform in a careful and inclusive manner that does not divide our nation.”
    Climate change is man made but the extinction of whites is natural, how come you don't understand that comrade?
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment



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  32. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by TheCount View Post
    Does it feel strange to you to support and then oppose the same policy in two adjacent posts within the span of half an hour?
    Yes! Now this is how we play!


    Problem is, I’d be excited ‘cept I know perfectly well as soon as I make a post for which you can’t think of any one-liner reply you feel is clever and devastating, you’ll just ignore it. And so that will be the end of the conversation. More accurately: it will never become a conversation. You don’t have conversations. Certainly not with me. You have had a couple more extended back and forths with people who seemed to be moderately to severely retarded, so maybe that’s the key. Make ya feel all secure, certain of your intellectual superiority, not threatened and uncertain.


    Anyway, feel free to act like a human and have a conversation with me. Based on past experience it’s unlikely, but I don’t know you, I don’t understand you (venture to say: no one here does), and so who knows what you’ll do. People can change.


    OK, where were we? Ah yes: this was an awesome post. In so many ways. It would seem to have the opponent, me, pinned into a corner, yes? 1) You pretty clearly imply that you’re in favor of mass deportation, and 2) You pretty clearly imply you think that genociding whites in South Africa is bad. You would seem, in that case, to be stuck. How you gonna get out of that one?


    You could try to claim that deportation is not the same as genocide. That’s the tac Swordsmyth has taken in his defense of me (thanks, Sword!), but that comes off as pretty weak. Too much like parsing words, splitting hairs. Because while it’s obviously true that deportation and genocide are significantly different things, that actually doesn’t get at the crux of the issue.


    So, the other alternative is to just be honest and upfront and go straight for the jugular crux. Full frontal assault on the crux. And that’s kind of my default style, historically, since I came here in 2007 — and more generally since I came to this Earth. Because fact is, would I support a humane, orderly, compensated deportation of white people out of South Africa? No I would not. Nor of white Europeans out of North America. ‘But, but... inconsistent!!’ Yeah. Here’s the thing. Inconsistent with what? Under what framework? Under an ideological framework. Not under a reality framework. Only under a crazed, rigid adherence to an interesting artificial system called “ideology” is it inconsistent. But ideology is all abstractions and has no relationship to reality. It’s just all made up. So at some point you’ve got to choose your framework: ideology framework, or reality framework. As for me and my house: we choose reality.


    And so then, suddenly, the question becomes not “Am I adhering to an artificial quasi-mathematical system of rules, axioms, and bromides?”, but rather “What would work? What would make a good society for my non-theoretical children to live and thrive in?” and other reality-based questions like that.

    So in the reality framework, which is what I’ve switched to working in nowadays, it all makes sense. Would it make my society better for my children if all the Mexicans were booted back to go make Mexico great again? By my estimation, yes. (We could debate that, but you don’t care about practical realities like that, methinks, only ideology. So you won’t.) Likewise, will it make South Africa better to genocide all the whites there? Obviously not, probably no one would go so far on the crazy train as to debate that point. Whites built the country and are the only ones competent enough to keep the country from wholesale crumbling. Everyone knows that.


    Join me in reality, guys. Water’s sweet. Once you go real, you’ll never go back.

  33. #58
    Oh, and a new update straight from reality on this story: South Africa is “fact checking” the tweet. And whom did they get to do the checking?



    Julius Malema!!! Yes, as in “Die, white man! Viva Malema!” Malema. Ha, ha ha ha, ha! Mine floor it seems to be rolling. I’ll leave the work to others to fill in the gaps and post some background articles if you don’t get the joke.

  34. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Just days after the first 'Zimbabwe-fication' actions of South African President Ramaphosa's plan to confiscate white farmers' land with no compensation and hand them to the black population begins, President Trump - seemingly following a story by Fox News' Tucker Carlson - has asked Secretary of State Mike Pompeo “to closely study the South Africa land and farm seizures and expropriations” raising concerns that the U.S. might target South Africa with possible sanctions next.
    I have asked Secretary of State @SecPompeo to closely study the South Africa land and farm seizures and expropriations and the large scale killing of farmers. “South African Government is now seizing land from white farmers.” @TuckerCarlson @FoxNews
    — Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) August 23, 2018
    The reaction was swift in the Rand...

    Here is the Tucker Carlson segment that appears to have triggered President Trump.




    * * *

    More at: https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018-...-white-farmers

    Related:


    Petitions to substitute the Boers for other "refugees"
    I completely agree. Any country that legalizes theft should be sanctioned. It is of course only South Africa doing this currently.
    It's all about taking action and not being lazy. So you do the work, whether it's fitness or whatever. It's about getting up, motivating yourself and just doing it.
    - Kim Kardashian

    Donald Trump / Crenshaw 2024!!!!

    My pronouns are he/him/his

  35. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post
    It's not I suppose...outside of our $#@!ing around with the internal politics of a foreign nation is what has caused this.
    ^^^THIS^^^

    In a new article/podcast, about the lies that were used to bring on WWI, Judge John V. Denson briefly mentions:

    The horror of the British concentration camps in South Africa, where 20,000 children died, is conveniently glossed over; the devastating loss of a generation in a world war for which these men were deliberately responsible has been glorified by the lie that they died for ‘freedom and civilization.’
    https://www.lewrockwell.com/2018/08/...tory-of-ww1-2/

    Looking up real history shows that the 1st concentration camps were actually in South Africa- but of course, only the Germans were bad guys.
    There is no spoon.

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